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Riddickulous

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Charlie Weis apparently blames his failures at ND on his "overly ambitious" assistant coaches. SIAP:

Charlie Weis blames Irish failures on… overly-ambitious assistants he hired? | CollegeFootballTalk

Weis said his struggles at Notre Dame could be traced to the composition of his coaching staff. Three of his assistants — Michael Haywood (Miami, Ohio), Rob Ianello (Akron) and Brian Polian (Nevada) — eventually left to run their own programs.

“I hired too many people that wanted to use the school as a stepping-stone for a head coaching job,” Weis said
 

greyhammer90

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Serious not-trolling question, is "Theatre" ND's bullshit athlete major? I noticed quite a few theatre majors on Showtime last night. Was that just my imagination? Didn't someone have a break down of majors at some point on this site?
 

wizards8507

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Serious not-trolling question, is "Theatre" ND's bullshit athlete major? I noticed quite a few theatre majors on Showtime last night. Was that just my imagination? Didn't someone have a break down of majors at some point on this site?
It's called FTT, i.e. Film, Television, and Theater. Yes, it's a bullshit major, but there are plenty of "regular" (non-athlete) Notre Dame students flushing $60,000 a year on the same fool major. It actually probably makes more sense for football players, because they're the ones who might have a chance working in sports media or something along those lines.
 

dublinirish

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Serious not-trolling question, is "Theatre" ND's bullshit athlete major? I noticed quite a few theatre majors on Showtime last night. Was that just my imagination? Didn't someone have a break down of majors at some point on this site?

there would be no #TeamRevo without the theatre major.

this from the 2013 team:
Film Television and Theatre - 18.6%
(George Atkinson III, Josh Atkinson, Farley, Jackson, T.J. Jones, Moore, Big Lou and Lo Wood)

2015:
Farley, Zaire, Jaylon, Schumate..
 
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Whiskeyjack

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Serious not-trolling question, is "Theatre" ND's bullshit athlete major? I noticed quite a few theatre majors on Showtime last night. Was that just my imagination? Didn't someone have a break down of majors at some point on this site?

Last time I checked, of the football players with declared majors (i.e. non-freshman), a plurality (40%) were in Mendoza. FTT was next most represented major.

It's called FTT, i.e. Film, Television, and Theater. Yes, it's a bullshit major, but there are plenty of "regular" (non-athlete) Notre Dame students flushing $60,000 a year on the same fool major. It actually probably makes more sense for football players, because they're the ones who might have a chance working in sports media or something along those lines.

There are no "bullsh!t" majors at ND. No, liberal arts programs are not as rigorous or lucrative as those in STEM, architecture, or business, but ND fortunately hasn't bought into the idea that the only worthwhile education is a utilitarian one.
 
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tussin

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Last time I checked, of the football players with declared majors (i.e. non-freshman), a plurality (40%) were in Mendoza. FTT was next most represented major.



There are no "bullsh!t" majors at ND. No, liberal arts programs are not as rigorous as those in STEM, architecture, or business, but ND fortunately hasn't bought into the idea that the only worthwhile education is a utilitarian one.

In theory that is an admirable stance, but in practice it is pretty hard to justify Joe Schmo dishing out $240K for a theater or philosophy major.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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In theory that is an admirable stance, but in practice it is pretty hard to justify Joe Schmo dishing out $240K for a theater or philosophy major.

I think ND stopped worrying about Joe Schmo half a century ago. As is their right.
 

Whiskeyjack

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The NYT's Dan Barry just published an article titled "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":

SOUTH BEND, Ind. — Now is a good time to take a reflective walk with the president of the University of Notre Dame, through the woods behind his office in a golden-domed building, beside two lakes named after saints. A good time, and a serene setting, to ponder a sacred matter of profound moral implications: college athletics.

With the advent of another football season, the accusations of student-athlete exploitation continue to unnerve higher education — the growing demand that student-athletes share in the revenue they generate; the calls for N.C.A.A. reform; the push for unionization; academic fraud, sexual assaults, seamy cover-ups. It’s that 1932 Marx Brothers movie about college football, “Horse Feathers,” only without the laughs.

Nowhere are these questions of morality and justice more pressing than at this academic powerhouse with a football emphasis — or this football powerhouse with an academic emphasis. Notre Dame’s Catholic foundation informs everything here, down to the likeness of Jesus looming over home games, arms raised as if signaling a touchdown, or encouraging the faithful to do the wave.

Its president, the Rev. John I. Jenkins, 61, walking at the moment with head bowed in thought, may not be much of a football man; he is more Aquinas scholar than Rockne acolyte. But he can read the field. He sees the changes coming.

He knows that some detest Notre Dame’s storied football program, down to the constant use of “storied.” He also knows that for all its emphasis on nourishing the soul and improving the mind, Notre Dame is sometimes dismissed as just another exploitative enterprise — an Ohio State in priestly garb — reaping considerable revenue from the toil of football players who see none of the money.

Father Jenkins, a passionate defender of his alma mater, has considered the arguments. He agrees that the N.C.A.A. is struggling to find its role on a changed playing field. And, in what may come as a surprise, he suggests that student-athletes should be able to monetize their fame, with limits.

But he adamantly opposes a model in which college sheds what is left of its amateur ways for a semiprofessional structure — one in which universities pay their athletes. “Our relationship to these young people is to educate them, to help them grow,” he says. “Not to be their agent for financial gain.”

And if that somehow comes to pass, he says, Notre Dame will leave the profitable industrial complex that is elite college football, boosters be damned, and explore the creation of a conference with like-minded universities.

That’s right: Notre Dame would take its 23.9-karat-gold-flecked football helmets and play elsewhere.

“Perhaps institutions will make decisions about where they want to go — a semipro model or a different, more educational model — and I welcome that,” Father Jenkins says. “I wouldn’t consider that a bad outcome, and I think there would be schools that would do that.”

Pundits scoffed when Jack Swarbrick, the university’s athletic director, voiced similar sentiments this year. No way would Notre Dame — practically French for college football — set aside its national ambitions and settle for Saturday matchups against, say, Carnegie Mellon.

Think of it, they reasoned. Television and sports-apparel contracts would dry up, alumni generosity would decline, and the best athletes would go elsewhere. Notre Dame would no longer be ... Notre Dame.

The scholar-president disagrees. Notre Dame will remain Notre Dame no matter what, he says, fully aware that he is on the record.

Leader and Football Fan

The manicured Notre Dame campus provides ample evidence of the university’s rich tradition and considerable self-regard. A Knute Rockne statue outside the stadium. Items that include Notre Dame perfume (“The Lady Irish fragrance embodies the grace, pride and elegance of the Notre Dame woman while capturing her vivacious spirit and confidence”) in the bookstore. A drink at the Morris Inn called the Father Hesburgh Manhattan.

Embodying its more serious side is this slightly built graduate walking along a wooded path: John Jenkins of Omaha, class of ’76 and of ’78, with degrees in philosophy, as well as a doctorate from Oxford University. Ordained a Holy Cross priest here in 1983, he has filled several roles over the years, including professor, administrator and, for the last decade, president.

His intellectual strong suit might be more Summa Theologica — in which St. Thomas Aquinas presented five arguments for the existence of God — than the zone-blitz defense. But Father Jenkins describes himself as a football fan, one who finds worth even in defeat (“Losses teach more than victories,” he says) — the kind of fan, then, who drives rabid boosters to distraction.

Alums in Fighting Irish plumage will complain to him about the football team, as if, in addition to overseeing a university with 11,700 students and an endowment worth nearly $10 billion, he serves as offensive coordinator. “You sort of let it blow off a little bit,” he says, “and say, ‘There’s another game next week, next season. ...’ ”

Father Jenkins is also more than conversant in the big business that is college athletics, including the many legal challenges to the N.C.A.A. model as a strictly amateur endeavor. An amateur endeavor for the athletes, that is: Notre Dame’s football coach, Brian Kelly, collects a seven-figure salary, while the university benefits from a national television contract, ticket sales, and an exceptionally valuable apparel deal with Under Armour.

The president rejects the notion that Notre Dame is morally obliged to share its football revenue with those playing the game. “I don’t think there’s a compulsion or some demand of justice that we do it,” he says.

His position — his North Star, he calls it — may be dismissed by some as trite, even convenient, but here it is: Notre Dame is an educational institution, and athletics, while diverting and instructive in its own right, is meant to serve the educational purpose.

The $20 million spent by the university on about 320 athletic scholarships, he says, reflects a compact — one that many reading these words might well agree to, if they were athletically gifted teenagers. Simply put:

Commit to play football — or basketball, or soccer, or lacrosse — at Notre Dame for roughly four years. This will mean long hours, demanding practices, too much travel, considerable pressure and extraordinary discipline.

In exchange, you will receive tuition, books, food, living accommodations and the offer of a stellar education, as well as a powerful, appreciative network of alumni to help you in the great world beyond campus borders. If you are injured, or benched, or cut, your scholarship remains intact.

(As for injuries with repercussions after graduation, Paul Browne, a university vice president, wrote in an email: “We’d look at any such case individually, knowing that Notre Dame prides itself in a lifelong engagement with many if not most of the alumni. I know that many alumni have used our doctors, trainers and facilities when rehabbing from injuries suffered as professional athletes, for example.”)

Father Jenkins thinks this is a fair and just deal.

“I’d say that education is more valuable than however much money we might give you,” he says. “So focus on that. We’re going to do everything we can to help you be successful in getting that education.”

In other words, do not focus on matters unrelated to your education — how, for example, your image might appear in the university’s promotional materials.

Reputation for Academics

Notre Dame is regularly at the very top of the N.C.A.A.’s rankings of student-athlete graduation rates — well north of 90 percent. But various academic scandals have, depending on one’s view, either hurt or reinforced the university’s reputation for academics above all else.

Two years ago, for example, its starting quarterback, Everett Golson, was suspended for cheating on a test; he returned last year, graduated, and is now playing for Florida State in his fifth year of eligibility. And just before the start of last season, four Notre Dame players, three of them likely starters, were dropped from the team during an inquiry into academic fraud.

While some cite cases like these as evidence of the hypocrisy in the Notre Dame narrative, the university argues the opposite: Academics come first here, no matter how damaging it might be to the football season.

Father Jenkins knows full well the analogy of universities as ivy-adorned plantations, with student-athletes as indentured servants, or slaves, and college administrators, presumably like himself, as exploitative masters.

He knows, too, of the famous 2011 takedown in The Atlantic by the respected historian Taylor Branch, who forcefully argued against the prohibition of college athletes — all adults, he points out — from seeking compensation for their highly valued services. Branch dismissed the N.C.A.A. ideals of “amateurism” and “student-athlete” as “cynical hoaxes, legalistic confections propagated by the universities so they can exploit the skills and fame of young athletes.”

“A little overheated,” Father Jenkins says, speaking in a hesitant way that suggests a constant pursuit of precision. “So the thesis is: We exploit these young people for financial gain. Let’s just think about that.”

He says the football program, the only Notre Dame sport that consistently makes money, creates about $80 million in revenue a year — out of an annual operating budget of more than $1.4 billion. That football money is cycled back into athletics to support two dozen other sports, an arrangement that he says football players take pride in. Anything left goes to financial aid for students unrelated to the athletics program.

“If the claim is, you’re using football players to help soccer players play soccer, help fencers fence, help swimmers swim — O.K., if that’s the claim,” he says. “But that doesn’t seem to be exploitation.”

He adds: “We’re very clear about what our goals are, and we’re very clear about why we do it. If anybody doesn’t want to participate, that’s fine, but that’s what we’re about.”

Still, Father Jenkins supports recent modest reforms that are designed to ward off financial hardships for student-athletes. As part of the “Power 5” collection of elite college football programs, Notre Dame has embraced the “full cost of attendance” concept, which provides students on full athletic scholarships with additional money for personal expenses and travel.

And while Father Jenkins opposes sharing revenue with the Notre Dame quarterback, say, based on the sale of jerseys bearing his uniform number — the university would just stop selling jerseys with numbers, he says — he would support the quarterback’s selling his autograph, or retaining an agent to help him monetize his fame, as long as Notre Dame did not become a partner in the endeavor.

“That seems to be where we’re going,” the president says.

Court Challenges to N.C.A.A.

The walk continues, beside St. Mary’s Lake and St. Joseph’s Lake, along a path that follows the Stations of the Cross, past the Old College, built in 1843, which evokes the earliest days of the university. The Rev. Edward Sorin, its first president, founded the university on several hundred snow-covered acres; Father Jenkins, its 17th, seeks balance on shifting grounds.

The talk turns to the recent court challenges to the N.C.A.A. structure. Last year, in the so-called O’Bannon case, a federal judge ruled that the N.C.A.A. was violating antitrust law by not paying athletes for commercial use of their names and likenesses. She also allowed for universities to create trust funds for athletes to use after their playing days, although those payments could be capped by the N.C.A.A. at $5,000.

That case, now under appeal, makes Father Jenkins uneasy. “That really does, it seems to me, move a student from student to employee,” he says. “And that, as I say, does some violence to that educational relationship.”

Then, last month, the National Labor Relations Board rejected a bid to recognize student-athletes at Northwestern University as employees of the institution, with the right to unionize and bargain collectively. An attack on the amateur model, Father Jenkins says. A close call.

Finally, there is the pending lawsuit filed against the N.C.A.A. and the Power 5 conferences by the well-known sports lawyer Jeffrey Kessler, who argues that the value of student-athletes has been illegally capped by athletic scholarships. If he prevails: an open market.

Or, as Father Jenkins puts it: “Armageddon.”

“That’s when we leave,” he says. “We will not tolerate that. Then it really does become a semipro team.”

He believes that the drama and popularity of college athletics are rooted in the fact that the student-athletes are amateurs. “If they make mistakes, you know, it’s not like they’re professionals,” he says.

But if a pay-to-play dynamic is applied to college sports, he suggests, something is lost. “If you go that semipro route, we’ll see,” he says. “But I’m just not sure that we’ll not end up just a second-tier, uninteresting pro league.”

Father Jenkins says that he could see two separate collegiate athletic associations — one following the semiprofessional model, the other dedicated to preserving what he calls “the essential educational character of college athletics.” In belonging to the latter, he says, Notre Dame would be just fine, financially and otherwise.

“If tomorrow you told me, you just can’t do what you want to do in athletics and you’re going to have to shut it down, and we would have club sports, something like that — I don’t think it would significantly impact the revenue,” Father Jenkins says. Some alumni and donors might revolt, he acknowledges. “But just in terms of a financial proposition, I don’t think it would impact the academy.”

Hmmm.

“You made the ‘Hmmm’ there,” he says, detecting the doubt prompted by recollections of, say, Alabama-Birmingham trying to shut down its football program, only to have outraged supporters swiftly revive it. Isn’t talk of such a move at Notre Dame more a theoretical exercise than a practical consideration? An existential matter only, to be debated by scholars over a couple of Father Hesburgh Manhattans?

Father Jenkins’s tone faintly suggests: Try me. “Would someone who was going to give a gift to Notre Dame for a chair in philosophy or physics not give it if we did without football?” he asks. “I don’t think so.”

Having said all this, the president says he embraces what athletics — what football — does for the Notre Dame community. “It brings people back to the university,” he says. “It gives them a visible bond. They feel, week to week, a connection to the university. And that does interest them in the academy, in education, in student life.

“That is real.”

The walk through the woods concludes, and the president of Notre Dame returns to his office under the golden dome. He has many things on his mind. A coming visit by Justice Sonia Sotomayor of the Supreme Court. A state-of-the-university speech that needs to be written. And the season’s first home football game, against Texas.

A few days later, a national television audience and 80,795 fans in sold-out Notre Dame Stadium, including Father Jenkins, would watch Notre Dame’s quarterback throw for three touchdowns in leading the Fighting Irish to a 38-3 victory over the Longhorns.

The name of the young man at quarterback is Malik Zaire, and he wears Notre Dame jersey No. 8 — available for sale in the bookstore.
 

ACamp1900

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I applaud their stance and agree with it... but it also makes me sad. I'd love to see Notre Dame win just one more Natty before/if this shift occurs.
 

ulukinatme

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I applaud their stance and agree with it... but it also makes me sad. I'd love to see Notre Dame win just one more Natty before/if this shift occurs.

Same, although part of me hopes that change doesn't end up occurring. I selfishly want ND to provide excellent academics and do very well in football too, but I'm realistic enough to realize it's extremely difficult to achieve both at a high level. We've seen recently that some borderline players have struggled, and these are some of the players that we need to play with the big boys.

If the NCAA Div 1 landscape split into two parts, Notre Dame would become essentially what Harvard is. Rich football tradition from years ago, but it would lose some of the draw and appeal today. I'm not sure they could maintain the NBC contract, there wouldn't be the same viewership in part because the competition would be lower. That would mean a lot less money for the university, and they probably lose the Under Armor deal. There would still be some academic grants and donations, but there would be a large decline in football revenue and it could hurt other sports. You wouldn't see the same commitment to new buildings and state of the art facilities.

I would still support the university, but I think such a drastic change would have dramatic effects that would affect the university in many ways off the field.
 

wizards8507

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Here's the little secret that nobody wants to talk about, though. Nobody wants to pay players. It's not like Alabama and Oregon are just waiting for the opportunity to shell out thousands of dollars to a four-star linebacker from Toledo. As soon as that Pandora's box is opened, it becomes an arms race; not because everyone is eager to do it, but because everyone will have to keep up with their competitors. It's the same thing with scheduling cupcakes that we're talking about in the other thread. Nobody wants to, but they'll do it as a necessary evil to keep up with the rest of the FBS. Players will never be paid in college football in any meaningful way, nor should they be. The worst case scenario is that all of the kids who want to earn a paycheck do so in a developmental semipro league, and college football becomes a landscape of three star RKGs who want a real degree.
 

BobbyMac

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The NYT's Dan Barry just published an article titled "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":

“Our relationship to these young people is to educate them, to help them grow,” he says. “Not to be their agent for financial gain.”

First of all Whiskey, great article. Thanks for posting.

I am most often on the side of athletes leaving early to take the money when there is proper demand for their services. I still believe that is the right thing to do as any player can go back and finish his degree after playing.

What this article has opened my eyes to is the poor justification I usually spew when early entry comes up and that is... "You go to college to learn how to make a living."

I'll never say that again.

What you go to college for is so much more than vocation. Looking back, the most important thing I learned in college was... Who I was. Only then could I educate that person. Next and equally important was I had to learn about other people. People that came from different corners of the this country and the world, far removed from my little spot in Chicagoland. Then and only then, could I maximize my contributions to a society I shared with those different people.

That's the mission of ND that I appreciate more and more as I get older. It's far better to turn out well educated, conscientious grads who have the ability to lead or at least be pillars in their community than it is just another smart person with a diploma. For the most part my alma mater, Valpo is the same way and the friendship of our President's Fr. Hesburgh and Rev. OP Kretzmann helped guide both universities in that positive direction of providing a uniquely liberal education in a conservative backdrop.

Good stuff Whiskey, thanks again.
 
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wizards8507

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First of all Whiskey, great article. Thanks for posting.

I am most often on the side of athletes leaving early to take the money when there is proper demand for their services. I still believe that is the right thing to do as any player can go back and finish his degree after playing.

What this article has opened my eyes to is the poor justification I usually spew when early entry comes up and that is... "You go to college to learn how to make a living."

I'll never say that again.

What you go to college for is so much more than vocation. Looking back, the most important thing I learned in college was... Who I was. Only then could I educate that person. Next and equally important was I had to learn about other people. People that came from different corners of the this country and the world, far removed from my little spot in Chicagoland. Then and only then, could I maximize my contributions to a society I shared with those different people.

That's the mission of ND that I appreciate more and more as I get older. It's far better to turn out well educated, conscientious grads who have the ability to lead or at least be pillars in their community than it is just another smart person with a diploma. For the most part my alma mater, Valpo is the same way and the friendship of our President's Fr. Hesburgh and Rev. OP Kretzmann helped guide both universities in that positive direction of providing a uniquely liberal education in a conservative backdrop.

Good stuff Whiskey, thanks again.
Where I disagree with you is that your position seems to lead to the conclusion that someone who did not go to college is somehow incomplete. You present college as a necessary step to find and develop oneself. There's no reason why that self-discovery can't be found in the military, on-the-job, scraping to get by, getting married young, having a child, etc. I don't think someone choosing to forego college is cheating himself in that regard. He'll still go through the same development, as it's a natural process at that age, it'll just take a different form.
 

T Town Tommy

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Where I disagree with you is that your position seems to lead to the conclusion that someone who did not go to college is somehow incomplete. You present college as a necessary step to find and develop oneself. There's no reason why that self-discovery can't be found in the military, on-the-job, scraping to get by, getting married young, having a child, etc. I don't think someone choosing to forego college is cheating himself in that regard. He'll still go through the same development, as it's a natural process at that age, it'll just take a different form.

I don't think NDCrusader was saying that at all. He did say the most important thing he learned was who he was. Can others find it elsewhere? Sure. But at least for NDCrusader, it appears college was the vehicle for him.
 

Dizzyphil

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I was talking to my Financial Adviser a couple of months ago about this very subject of 'Paying to Play'..... He says if this happens, many students will have an open door for lawsuits. Students that do not play a 'Pay to Play' sport in that college and here is why:

The 'Pay to Play' came about when students started the theory that without them, the college would not reap the benefits of Bowl, Merchandising, and Television monies. Hence the lawsuit against EA sports for the replication of players' names.

Best example of the open lawsuit from my adviser, if the average football team brings in $15 million to the university then the money would be used to help pay a stipend to the players regardless of level of status as a player - all players paid equally.

Pfizer sends $20 million to that same college for research funding because 10 students in the Chemistry/R&D lab have discovered a drug that will cure/treat x-disease..... how much of a stipend will those students receive?

Thus, he believes if there ever is a 'Pay to Play' - the obstacles will be huge opposition and many lawsuits can/will happen.

Thought I would pass that along - I thought he had some good thoughts about it.
 

BobbyMac

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Where I disagree with you is that your position seems to lead to the conclusion that someone who did not go to college is somehow incomplete. You present college as a necessary step to find and develop oneself. There's no reason why that self-discovery can't be found in the military, on-the-job, scraping to get by, getting married young, having a child, etc. I don't think someone choosing to forego college is cheating himself in that regard. He'll still go through the same development, as it's a natural process at that age, it'll just take a different form.

I didn't feel the need for that disclaimer Wiz as I'm talking about the college experience and its relationship to college athletics. Now take away college athletics... If one chooses to go to college, they are looking for something there. If you don't, you will find it, or it will find you somewhere else, like the military or in other experiences as you stated. My exclusion is not a slight to other life experiences, I was just focusing in on the college experience, from an ex-college athlete's perspective within the parameters of college athletics.
 

tussin

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Great article, I agree with the ND stance. I also don't really think a "pay to play" shift will ever really happen.

First, I think there is real strength in the argument that ND (and other D1 schools) are already paying their players close to $250K over four years. You don't really realize it until you graduate and start paying off loans, but graduating completely debt free from a top institution is a HUGE advantage. Life changing actually in terms of ultimate control over your career.

Second, very few individuals actually make money for the school that can be tied back to that specific individual (really only seen in jersey sales). We pay money and devote our fandom to institutions, not individuals. I'm a diehard ND fan and can really only name the NFL teams of about 5 former players.

All that being said, I do support building a few thousand dollars a year into the scholarship programs to support cost of living. Football is a full time job for these guys and they don't have the opportunity to get on-campus jobs.
 

Corry

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Help me understand this because I just don't get it. The football program makes 80 mill a year, but if players start getting paid ND says peace out hommie, I'm taking my ball and going home? I just don't see ND football in Division II or the Ivy League. Everyone here seems to be super cool with watching a lower level of football on Saturdays, I call BS, we're the same lot that melts down when a 18 yr old picks another hat. You guys stand on principal I want to watch football at its highest level.
 

Redbar

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First of all Whiskey, great article. Thanks for posting.

I am most often on the side of athletes leaving early to take the money when there is proper demand for their services. I still believe that is the right thing to do as any player can go back and finish his degree after playing.

What this article has opened my eyes to is the poor justification I usually spew when early entry comes up and that is... "You go to college to learn how to make a living."

I'll never say that again.

What you go to college for is so much more than vocation. Looking back, the most important thing I learned in college was... Who I was. Only then could I educate that person. Next and equally important was I had to learn about other people. People that came from different corners of the this country and the world, far removed from my little spot in Chicagoland. Then and only then, could I maximize my contributions to a society I shared with those different people.

That's the mission of ND that I appreciate more and more as I get older. It's far better to turn out well educated, conscientious grads who have the ability to lead or at least be pillars in their community than it is just another smart person with a diploma. For the most part my alma mater, Valpo is the same way and the friendship of our President's Fr. Hesburgh and Rev. OP Kretzmann helped guide both universities in that positive direction of providing a uniquely liberal education in a conservative backdrop.

Good stuff Whiskey, thanks again.

I was saying this very thing a few days ago to one of my old professors. Bravo. This post should be framed!
 

Circa

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In theory that is an admirable stance, but in practice it is pretty hard to justify Joe Schmo dishing out $240K for a theater or philosophy major.

Philosophy? Not at all. Why would you question that?
 

Circa

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I applaud their stance and agree with it... but it also makes me sad. I'd love to see Notre Dame win just one more Natty before/if this shift occurs.

Honestly, If we and all of our faithful americans lose this because of greed and hypocrisy. The end of everything football is near. This isn't your or my football team we are talking about. This Is the beginning and would insurmountably be the end of everyone's football. If this should become fact, we won't need to worry about our children working hard to become great human beings, just regular will do just fine. Being paid to play when you have proved nothing in the adult world is utter nonsense.

I agree with all of Father's assessment and thought the journalist did well until the Zaire sneer.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Being paid to play when you have proved nothing in the adult world is utter nonsense.

Proved enough to be recruited by a coach (who is making millions) to come play at an institution that will generate hundreds of millions during your time there due, in part, to your abilities.
 

wizards8507

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Proved enough to be recruited by a coach (who is making millions) to come play at an institution that will generate hundreds of millions during your time there due, in part, to your abilities.
No, in zero parts due to their abilities. Total revenue if you started paying kids would be no more than total revenue if you only played with kids who didn't want to be paid. The value is in the university brand. It's not a star-driven league like the NFL or NBA.

The solution to this is so stupidly simple. Let kids get a sneaker contract or hawk sandwiches. The kids worth money will make it.
 

NDRock

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Honestly, If we and all of our faithful americans lose this because of greed and hypocrisy. The end of everything football is near. This isn't your or my football team we are talking about. This Is the beginning and would insurmountably be the end of everyone's football. If this should become fact, we won't need to worry about our children working hard to become great human beings, just regular will do just fine. Being paid to play when you have proved nothing in the adult world is utter nonsense.

I agree with all of Father's assessment and thought the journalist did well until the Zaire sneer.

It would just make football the same as baseball, soccer, basketball, etc. Players get big contracts right out of high school in all of those sports. Children will be fine.
 
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