Duke Post Game

[GowerND11]

This is why people should care about recruiting. If we truly want to win a championship, our current recruiting won't cut it. Looking at 247's recruiting, Duke is closer to our talent level than we are to Georgia, Alabama, and Ohio State. Puts things in a little perspective.

I actually think our staff develops talent well.

I would argue that there is greater disparity between an 85 and 90 than a 90 and 95 on 247.

 

[phork]

Everyone hit all the notes. But its NDs luck right? Finally get a shot at a decent running game and we have no WRs to compliment after all these years of the reverse.

Mayer is going to be a stud and a lot sooner than people realize.

Playing all the youngsters is great on so many levels, specifically recruiting. Kids can see they can play as a freshman thats a bonus.

Tyree has some electricity. However he looked very green in the offense. Its nice to have kids where their pretty good as is, but their ceiling is much higher.

D is going to be fine, took a bit to put the clamps on but once they did Duke looked like a Mac team.

Lets see some improvement in the passing game with USF.

Run the ball, and stop the run and have a game managing QB can win you a lot of games.

 

[Luckylucci]

This. I'll wait just a little before I throw him under the bus. No spring practice or summer workouts to work with a new group of receivers. Don't get me wrong, Book could have done better, but some of his happy feet was receivers not getting open.

I think what people are missing is, Book's 'happy feet' are not the end of the play, many times it's from the very beginning. This is not allowing WR's to get open within the offense.

Folks that are trying to make this a chicken or egg situation are not understanding how his movements are impacting the plays, from the outset. His footwork, body positioning, unwillingness to stand in the pocket. etc. are not allowing him to get through the reads while being prepared to throw the ball.

Read progressions are based on the progress of the WR's routes. If you are not staying in the pocket or prepared to throw the football through the entirety of the route progressions, then yes, guys will not be open. But, who's fault is that?

If 4 WR's are running routes and he's only looking at 1 read before abandoning the play then of course the other 3 weren't open. Maybe they weren't supposed to be, yet. If I'm running a 20 yard post, I'm not going to be open until I come out the break after 20 yards. That requires Book to wait with a proper mechanics, until that occurs, in order to deliver that ball.

And let me just note that if you watch Book closely, it's not that he's always running out of the pocket when I say abandoning the play. He's constantly sliding one direction or another, backwards on his back foot, crouching in his stance, turning towards the LOS, etc. All these things make it insanely difficult for him to consistently deliver accurate passes throughout the offense.

 

[greyhammer90]

And let me just note that if you watch Book closely, it's not that he's always running out of the pocket when I say abandoning the play. He's constantly sliding one direction or another, backwards on his back foot, crouching in his stance, turning towards the LOS, etc. All these things make it insanely difficult for him to consistently deliver accurate passes throughout the offense.

This is it. And for those saying "well sometimes the pocket wasn't clean," the problem is that he looks the exact same in a perfectly clean pocket and a collapsing one. Him doing a breakdance in the backfield from the first second of a play makes it impossible to put any touch on anything. That's how you get interceptions like him rifling a high fast ball at a crossing TE who already has a step on his man.

Some announcers love to compare him to Manziel because of their scrambling styles, but when Manziel was given time he looked cool as a cucumber in the pocket. Book always looks like he's making things incredibly hard.

 

[Irish#1]

Some announcers love to compare him to Manziel because of their scrambling styles, but when Manziel was given time he looked cool as a cucumber in the pocket. Book always looks like he's making things incredibly hard.

What are they drinking?

 

[NDdomer2]

I'll also point out that in instances where there aren't guys open and he's sliding to a side vs stepping up he's limiting his scrambling options significantly. There were two instances I thought if he stepped up vs rolled out he had the whole middle of field to pick up some chunk yardage vs 2 or 3 on the sideline.

 

[Free Manera]

What are they drinking?

Well they are both gamers. Coaches' sons. Gym rats. You see where I'm going with this.

(They're both little white guys and that is the only comparison. JF was one of the best college quarterbacks in the past 20 years. That game against Bama when he bobbled the ball and then threw a TD was an all timer)

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

If he is going to bail out and get antsy, then Lord please at least productive with it. Roll out throws, tuck and runs etc... He's been productive on extending plays before.

Saturday he looked like he wanted to stay in the pocket, but his instincts were telling him to split...resulting in the in between mess we saw (at times).

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Again, if you're going to get happy feet - put them to use.

 

[IrishLax]

I honestly wonder if part of the issue is that he's too short to sit in the pocket and see down the field. If that's the case, need to move the pocket more... it sucks to cut the field in half, but it's better than literally not seeing WRs breaking wide open.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I honestly wonder if part of the issue is that he's too short to sit in the pocket and see down the field. If that's the case, need to move the pocket more... it sucks to cut the field in half, but it's better than literally not seeing WRs breaking wide open.

That's a bingo.

He's no Drew Brees.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Question for you guys:

How do you have 3 catching TEs and struggle with the passing game? I mean, 6'5 TE vs 5'10 CB. Seems a mismatch. Play jump ball until the safetys squat on them which then removes any run support.

I know it isnt that simple but can you possibly say a 5'10 CB can reliably cover a 6'5 TE doing jump balls?

 

[Old Man Mike]

As to Book --- unpopular opinion here, but I believe that he takes coaching TOO seriously. He is told to stay with the pocket and not abandon it too soon (we've seen this behavior before at an early season stage.) When he's not comfortable with that, he gets antsy way too soon, but abandons and lets athletics take over too late.

In my opinion, it was after he stopped thinking too much about the @#%# pocket and just rocked and rolled last season that he began generating that extra offense just talked about. This is why I'm not sweating this first game. He's gotten his flow before, and it will take over in a game or two.

 

[ThePiombino]

I honestly wonder if part of the issue is that he's too short to sit in the pocket and see down the field. If that's the case, need to move the pocket more... it sucks to cut the field in half, but it's better than literally not seeing WRs breaking wide open.

I believe this is a very large part of it. I think it's clear he can't see receivers down field. He leaves way too much on the field than would be acceptable otherwise.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

As to Book --- unpopular opinion here, but I believe that he takes coaching TOO seriously. He is told to stay with the pocket and not abandon it too soon (we've seen this behavior before at an early season stage.) When he's not comfortable with that, he gets antsy way too soon, but abandons and lets athletics take over too late.

In my opinion, it was after he stopped thinking too much about the @#%# pocket and just rocked and rolled last season that he began generating that extra offense just talked about. This is why I'm not sweating this first game. He's gotten his flow before, and it will take over in a game or two.

Unpopular?

I thought it was the general consensus that Kelly micromanages his QBs to the point of mental/emotional wreckage?

 

[Luckylucci]

So the narrative coming out of the game is that the blocking scheme has changed. We are now a zone blocking scheme and it took the OL a while to get used to it. As well as the RB's.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/13133/adjustments-rees-patience-buoy-notre-dame-offense

This is about as confusing as it gets.

 

[Irishize]

When you rewatch the first half we see the OL is playing just fine. Book scrambled into some of the pressures, Williams missed two key reads on where to cut, and Tremble (I believe) blew an assignment on a run as well.

Take away the first three drives and everyone has a different opinion of the OL Thankfully, they were playing Duke and the first three drives didn’t come back to haunt them b/c UNC & Clemson won’t be so forgiving.

 

[Irishize]

This is it. And for those saying "well sometimes the pocket wasn't clean," the problem is that he looks the exact same in a perfectly clean pocket and a collapsing one. Him doing a breakdance in the backfield from the first second of a play makes it impossible to put any touch on anything. That's how you get interceptions like him rifling a high fast ball at a crossing TE who already has a step on his man.

Some announcers love to compare him to Manziel because of their scrambling styles, but when Manziel was given time he looked cool as a cucumber in the pocket. Book always looks like he's making things incredibly hard.

I agree with this. The only time I noticed him trusting the pocket wast he TD to Davis. He stepped up into the pocket and didn’t abandon it and threw a dart. Furthermore, there were plenty of plays where although WR didn’t get open had he split the middle, it looked like plenty of running room Instead he sprinted for the corner and was lucky to get out of bounds w/o a loss.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So the narrative coming out of the game is that the blocking scheme has changed. We are now a zone blocking scheme and it took the OL a while to get used to it. As well as the RB's.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/13133/adjustments-rees-patience-buoy-notre-dame-offense

This is about as confusing as it gets.

Bizarre. The idea is that Long's offense employed some gap-blocking principles in its RPOs, and now we're going back to pure zone-blocking under Rees, so that equates to a full-blown blocking scheme change? We've always been a primarily zone-blocking team under Kelly.

 

[Luckylucci]

Bizarre. The idea is that Long's offense employed some gap-blocking principles in its RPOs, and now we're going back to pure zone-blocking under Rees, so that equates to a full-blown blocking scheme change? We've always been a primarily zone-blocking team under Kelly.

Exactly. And, we’ve run the outside zone (which is a play and not a scheme, as you know) the entire time Kelly has been at ND.

 

[IrishLax]

Bizarre. The idea is that Long's offense employed some gap-blocking principles in its RPOs, and now we're going back to pure zone-blocking under Rees, so that equates to a full-blown blocking scheme change? We've always been a primarily zone-blocking team under Kelly.

Question for anyone who actually understands OL play (I don’t ):

My understanding is that with Chip Long we did a lot of pulling and assignment blocking. A lot of slow developing plays. And that going to zone blocking... what worked for Kelly at Cinci and what Quinn prefers... was likely to happen this year because that is what everyone was most comfortable with.

 

[tussin]

Question for anyone who actually understands OL play (I don’t ):

My understanding is that with Chip Long we did a lot of pulling and assignment blocking. A lot of slow developing plays. And that going to zone blocking... what worked for Kelly at Cinci and what Quinn prefers... was likely to happen this year because that is what everyone was most comfortable with.

...I think there's a question in there somewhere.

 

[IrishLax]

...I think there's a question in there somewhere.

Sorry, the question is — is that understanding correct, and can you explain what exactly Chip Long was doing last year?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Sorry, the question is — is that understanding correct, and can you explain what exactly Chip Long was doing last year?

<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="15512141" data-share-method="host" data-width="100%" data-aspect-ratio="1.1241534988713318"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/that-is-correct-billy-madison-chris-farley-take-off-teasing-gif-15512141">That Is Correct Billy Madison GIF</a> from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/thatiscorrect-gifs">Thatiscorrect GIFs</a></div><script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

 

[ThePiombino]

Sorry, the question is &#151; is that understanding correct, and can you explain what exactly Chip Long was doing last year?

I think he was mostly just pissing people off.

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[DCDomer]

pin and pull is gap scheme, typically takes longer to develop. OC's like it in the Rpo Age because that timing gives QB's more time to make a read (OL isn't getting down field as fast.) You can also run more traditional routes on the backside of Rpo's for the same reason.

https://blogs.usafootball.com/blog/2887/the-pin-and-pull-scheme-and-why-it-s-difficult-to-defend

 

[irishff1014]

So the narrative coming out of the game is that the blocking scheme has changed. We are now a zone blocking scheme and it took the OL a while to get used to it. As well as the RB's.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/13133/adjustments-rees-patience-buoy-notre-dame-offense

This is about as confusing as it gets.

I read this on a different site too.

 

[NorthDakota]

As to Book --- unpopular opinion here, but I believe that he takes coaching TOO seriously. He is told to stay with the pocket and not abandon it too soon (we've seen this behavior before at an early season stage.) When he's not comfortable with that, he gets antsy way too soon, but abandons and lets athletics take over too late.

In my opinion, it was after he stopped thinking too much about the @#%# pocket and just rocked and rolled last season that he began generating that extra offense just talked about. This is why I'm not sweating this first game. He's gotten his flow before, and it will take over in a game or two.

I think he got figured out last year.

He doesn't have a big arm so you really only need to defend a pretty small part of the field compared to say...Kizer. He is really skittish when it comes to pressure(even when there is none).

Against lesser teams, Notre Dame wins because they are better football players. Over 60 minutes that will generally manifest itself.

Hopefully he hits a groove and proves me wrong but I feel like we've seen his best days already.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I'm not as concerned as most. I think there are a lot of factors that went into the sleepy offense.

1. To state the obvious, this was not a normal off-season. No Spring, limited summer/fall. Just because "Every team had to deal with it" doesn't mean it's going to be a smooth operation.

2. Book lost a lot of production from last year at WR/TE, and his top two guys, arguably top three if you add in the Skowronek injury, were missing after the Austin and Lenzy injuries.

3. We highlighted how Duke's front was the strength of that team and it showed in the first few drives. I think the OL did a nice job of adjusting in the 2nd half and the offensive productivity noticeably improved. I truly believe that Duke will be a better team than most think and are a better squad than what we saw last year. Brady Quinn said as much after the game and I agree.

If this lack of production from Book and the rest of the offense continues through the rest of September, I'll be concerned, but I think many are reading a LITTLE too much into it IMO. Let's see what happens when Lenzy gets back. Let's see what happens when Mayer's role expands even more. I'm giving them a pass, even Book, given the special circumstances and obstacles they've had to overcome.

Let's get rolling against USF.

EDIT: I also agree we have too many big bodies not to take a few more shots. Between McKinley, Tremble, Wright, Mayer, etc, there are mismatches to be exploited. Whether or not it's Rees calling the shots or Book not pulling the trigger, I hope to see more 50/50 opportunities the next couple of weeks with these big bodies. Also, let Lenzy loose Saturday.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Ian Book just needs to throw the damn ball. Every other 3* nobody on Saturday is taking shots downfield and letting their guys go get em. I am/was a really big fan of Ian's, but for F-Sake throw the ball.