Duke Post Game

NDRock

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I think he got figured out last year.

He doesn't have a big arm so you really only need to defend a pretty small part of the field compared to say...Kizer. He is really skittish when it comes to pressure(even when there is none).

Against lesser teams, Notre Dame wins because they are better football players. Over 60 minutes that will generally manifest itself.

Hopefully he hits a groove and proves me wrong but I feel like we've seen his best days already.

I agree with this though think he actually got "figured out" at the end of 2018. He played some great football his first 6 starts but really fell off his last two games and then the playoff game against Clemson. Looking back, those 6 great games were against some pretty poor defenses (avg. rank 83rd).

I'm actually more optimistic with Lenzy coming back and what I saw out of the running backs. If we can get a running game going there should be plays to make in the passing game.
 

GowerND11

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Here's what I don't get about the people who say he doesn't have a strong arm. He threw a perfect ball 55 yards in the air to Lenzy last year. He has thrown those deep outs/comebacks across the field (don't forget hashes are wide in college). He has a strong arm. I would rather argue he doesn't trust to throw it deep. Now that can be his not seeing the deep ball, not trusting the deep ball, not trusting his WRs, etc. But if he can throw a ball 55 yards in the air, he has a strong enough arm to take the lid off.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Sorry, the question is — is that understanding correct, and can you explain what exactly Chip Long was doing last year?

Here's a brief explanation of the "pin and pull" (with a bonus cameo from Zack Martin), and here's a good primer on zone blocking. The main difference between them is what uncovered OL do: are they pulling playside to clear out defenders at the first and second level, or are they quickly chipping playside before releasing to find blocks at the second level?

"Pro-style"/RPO guys like Long prefer the former because: (1) pulling guards make your misdirection/ play-action more effective; and (2) slower developing plays give your QB more time to make the correct read (as DCDomer suggested). But slow-developing run plays have some obvious downsides, with which we've all become painfully familiar.

Alternatively, spread guys like Quinn tend to prefer the latter because it's quicker and simpler, which allows you to push tempo when necessary and build in other sorts of wrinkles since uncovered OL can focus instead on finding someone to block immediately. The difference between the schemes is frequently exaggerated, and I think Kelly's comment was mostly coach speak cover for why our OL struggled more than they should have. But if last Saturday was our first attempt at running the outside zone/ stretch in several years during a live game (and against a sneaky good DL), that could plausibly explain some of our Q1 failures.
 

ThePiombino

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I think he got figured out last year.

He doesn't have a big arm so you really only need to defend a pretty small part of the field compared to say...Kizer. He is really skittish when it comes to pressure(even when there is none).

Against lesser teams, Notre Dame wins because they are better football players. Over 60 minutes that will generally manifest itself.

Hopefully he hits a groove and proves me wrong but I feel like we've seen his best days already.

His arm strength is plenty to keep secondaries honest. The physical limitation that hurts most is his size. I just don't think he sees (or maybe can't anticipate?) receivers being open downfield from inside a static pocket.
 

snoopdog

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The surest outcome from the Duke game is, DC's are going to stack the box and make Book throw the ball under pressure every single down.

ND will beat teams like SFU and almost every team on their schedule, but will struggle offensively against teams with strong Defenses like Duke and may get shut out against Clemson unless Book gets it sorted out.
 

Dizzyphil

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The surest outcome from the Duke game is, DC's are going to stack the box and make Book throw the ball under pressure every single down.

ND will beat teams like SFU and almost every team on their schedule, but will struggle offensively against teams with strong Defenses like Duke and may get shut out against Clemson unless Book gets it sorted out.


This should make Tremble and Mayer superstars vs. USF.....
 

mick2

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Is there a chance that duke is actually pretty good this year? That was my takeaway, they are well coached and actually have a few players on the DLine and qb played solid. We didn't play to our potential, but I don't think duke are the cellar dwellers of the ACC they are made out to be (at least this year). I May be wrong.
 

Dizzyphil

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Is there a chance that duke is actually pretty good this year? That was my takeaway, they are well coached and actually have a few players on the DLine and qb played solid. We didn't play to our potential, but I don't think duke are the cellar dwellers of the ACC they are made out to be (at least this year). I May be wrong.


Like I posted earlier, I'm a betting guy (as everyone knows here). Vegas had the Irish favored by only 21... now that sounds like a lot but it's only 3 possessions.


So, Vegas either knew something about the Irish or, they knew something about Duke.


Only time will tell of course.
 

Dizzyphil

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Also one thing I noticed in this game, there weren't as many 'counter' rush plays this year as there were last year. Those counter-rush plays last year were deadly.... but the Irish were also 'pulling' linemen last year.


not much of that against Duke.
 

NDRock

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Is there a chance that duke is actually pretty good this year? That was my takeaway, they are well coached and actually have a few players on the DLine and qb played solid. We didn't play to our potential, but I don't think duke are the cellar dwellers of the ACC they are made out to be (at least this year). I May be wrong.

Not sure but I bet there will be quite a few following their game on Saturday. They're playing BC, who has a new QB. Kid was a transfer, rumor is he's pretty talented.
 

SoIll

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Not sure but I bet there will be quite a few following their game on Saturday. They're playing BC, who has a new QB. Kid was a transfer, rumor is he's pretty talented.

PJ may not even start..
 

Dizzyphil

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Not sure but I bet there will be quite a few following their game on Saturday. They're playing BC, who has a new QB. Kid was a transfer, rumor is he's pretty talented.


I'm recording that game. I believe this will be a QB dual.


Bet the over.....
 

FightingIrishLover7

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The surest outcome from the Duke game is, DC's are going to stack the box and make Book throw the ball under pressure every single down.

ND will beat teams like SFU and almost every team on their schedule, but will struggle offensively against teams with strong Defenses like Duke and may get shut out against Clemson unless Book gets it sorted out.

You mean like Clemson has already done to us ala Playoff game?
 

NDMontana

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I think he got figured out last year.

He doesn't have a big arm so you really only need to defend a pretty small part of the field compared to say...Kizer. He is really skittish when it comes to pressure(even when there is none).

Against lesser teams, Notre Dame wins because they are better football players. Over 60 minutes that will generally manifest itself.

Hopefully he hits a groove and proves me wrong but I feel like we've seen his best days already.

Unfortunately this is almost always the case with ND QBs. I'm admittedly a pessimist willing to be proven wrong--often I am so proven--and I'm struggling to think of a QB whose gotten better under Kelly. Rees? No (but then he didn't get worse). Golson? Absolutely not. Zaire? No. Kizer? No. Wimbush? No. Book? No. And it's absolutely bizarre that ND's best years have been with walk-on Tommy Rees (2012 he was Golson's bail out) and three star roster filler Ian Book?

Golson, Kizer, Zaire, Jurkovec, Wimbush....four and five star QBs fizzle out. How in 11 years--and they've been good years to be clear--has he not had one of these guys truly work-out? Kizer had one very good season. The rest....
 

NDRock

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Unfortunately this is almost always the case with ND QBs. I'm admittedly a pessimist willing to be proven wrong--often I am so proven--and I'm struggling to think of a QB whose gotten better under Kelly. Rees? No (but then he didn't get worse). Golson? Absolutely not. Zaire? No. Kizer? No. Wimbush? No. Book? No. And it's absolutely bizarre that ND's best years have been with walk-on Tommy Rees (2012 he was Golson's bail out) and three star roster filler Ian Book?

Golson, Kizer, Zaire, Jurkovec, Wimbush....four and five star QBs fizzle out. How in 11 years--and they've been good years to be clear--has he not had one of these guys truly work-out? Kizer had one very good season. The rest....

You've just got to be more optimistic. Kelly gets his QBs so prepared that they come in playing at a max level. They don't improve because there is nowhere else to go.

I'm half joking but guys typically come in and play well right off the bat for him. Andrew Hendrix vs. USC being an obvious exception.
 

Wingman Ray

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Can anyone remember in Kellys Cinn days, was the qb throwing bombs then? I cant recall a thing other than they seemed to run the spread, pass the ball around a lot and put up a lot of points.

Not talking about catching a 15 yard pass turning into a 70 yard here. Talking about the cannon shots
 

Rack Em

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Unfortunately this is almost always the case with ND QBs. I'm admittedly a pessimist willing to be proven wrong--often I am so proven--and I'm struggling to think of a QB whose gotten better under Kelly. Rees? No (but then he didn't get worse). Golson? Absolutely not. Zaire? No. Kizer? No. Wimbush? No. Book? No. And it's absolutely bizarre that ND's best years have been with walk-on Tommy Rees (2012 he was Golson's bail out) and three star roster filler Ian Book?

Golson, Kizer, Zaire, Jurkovec, Wimbush....four and five star QBs fizzle out. How in 11 years--and they've been good years to be clear--has he not had one of these guys truly work-out? Kizer had one very good season. The rest....

Rees wasn’t a walk on FYI. Weis offered him a scholarship and took 3 QBs that year if memory serves. Rees, Hendrix, and some guy named Derek? I may be combining 2 years together though.
 

dublinirish

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Can anyone remember in Kellys Cinn days, was the qb throwing bombs then? I cant recall a thing other than they seemed to run the spread, pass the ball around a lot and put up a lot of points.

Not talking about catching a 15 yard pass turning into a 70 yard here. Talking about the cannon shots

Tony Pike to Marty Gilyard for sure
 

NDRock

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Rees wasn’t a walk on FYI. Weis offered him a scholarship and took 3 QBs that year if memory serves. Rees, Hendrix, and some guy named Derek? I may be combining 2 years together though.

Wasn’t it Luke Massa or something. Got moved to TE and never played.
 

dublinirish

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Rees wasn’t a walk on FYI. Weis offered him a scholarship and took 3 QBs that year if memory serves. Rees, Hendrix, and some guy named Derek? I may be combining 2 years together though.

Derek Roback, he actually made it to campus but then transferred to Ohio where they said he could play QB, they moved him to TE though and was like a 260 Lb senior
 

SoIll

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Rees wasn’t a walk on FYI. Weis offered him a scholarship and took 3 QBs that year if memory serves. Rees, Hendrix, and some guy named Derek? I may be combining 2 years together though.

Kelly no?
 

Dizzyphil

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Can anyone remember in Kellys Cinn days, was the qb throwing bombs then? I cant recall a thing other than they seemed to run the spread, pass the ball around a lot and put up a lot of points.

Not talking about catching a 15 yard pass turning into a 70 yard here. Talking about the cannon shots


BK was 'taught' mentored, under Mark Dantonio (Michigan State)... took over in 2006 for the bowl game. He only coached there as HC for 3 years. Cincinnati had a fairly decent staff before BK took over with Dantanio, BK, and Butch Jones (good coordinator - not so much HC; but is at Bama now as an advisor so....)


Being in the Big East at the time too so, not so 'heavy' in competition. But, BK did go like 30+ wins in 3 seasons.
 

zelezo vlk

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BK was 'taught' mentored, under Mark Dantonio (Michigan State)... took over in 2006 for the bowl game. He only coached there as HC for 3 years. Cincinnati had a fairly decent staff before BK took over with Dantanio, BK, and Butch Jones (good coordinator - not so much HC; but is at Bama now as an advisor so....)


Being in the Big East at the time too so, not so 'heavy' in competition. But, BK did go like 30+ wins in 3 seasons.

I'm not sure BK's coaching tenure ever overlapped with Dantonio. I thought BK was at Central Michigan before taking over Cincinnati after Dantonio left.
 

Dizzyphil

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I'm not sure BK's coaching tenure ever overlapped with Dantonio. I thought BK was at Central Michigan before taking over Cincinnati after Dantonio left.


True Dat - sorry, forgot he left in 2009 and didn't coach the bowl game for Cincy.... had it reversed....


you right brother
 
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