Democratic Primary Thread (Updated Poll #2)

[IrishLax]

I think the point is to pay teaching professionals professional wages that are on par with the importance of their jobs. We can follow the lead of Alabama, NM, Louisiana and Mississippi and pay substandard wages and we'll get substandard results, or we can follow the example of Mass., NH, Vermont, and Connecticut and pay teachers more and get better results. It's really no different than any other job. If you paid CEOs $150,000 a year, do you think there would no longer be CEOs? Of course not, but the quality of the CEOs would drop significantly.

Yup, teachers can live and work anywhere they want in the country. Not dissimilar from doctors, who often have to be given SIGNIFICANT incentives in order to practice in rural areas where they are most needed. You need to have free market solutions to a free market problem.

You want better teachers? Pay them more, and make it way easier to fire the bad ones. Problem solved in one sentence.

Similarly, what I love about Andrew Yang is that he has lots of solutions like this. Want to eliminate the influence of corporate lobbyists? Give each American what he calls "Democracy Dollars" that you can allocate to any political candidate or group that you want. Congrats, you just washed out lobbyist money by injecting $30 billion of public capital into the democratic process. There are so many solutions that can be solved with $$... many can't, but a LOT of them can.

 

[ACamp1900]

As a former teacher,... the protection of those who should have been fired years ago was one of the bigger reasons I got out, no question

 

[GATTACA!]

Yup, teachers can live and work anywhere they want in the country. Not dissimilar from doctors, who often have to be given SIGNIFICANT incentives in order to practice in rural areas where they are most needed. You need to have free market solutions to a free market problem.

You want better teachers? Pay them more, and make it way easier to fire the bad ones. Problem solved in one sentence.

Similarly, what I love about Andrew Yang is that he has lots of solutions like this. Want to eliminate the influence of corporate lobbyists? Give each American what he calls "Democracy Dollars" that you can allocate to any political candidate or group that you want. Congrats, you just washed out lobbyist money by injecting $30 billion of public capital into the democratic process. There are so many solutions that can be solved with $$... many can't, but a LOT of them can.

Yes the democracy dollars idea is brilliant. Yang understands that you're never going to punish these corporations into not lobbying. Money talks. Just put the power into the people's hands instead.

 

[GATTACA!]

I think the point is to pay teaching professionals professional wages that are on par with the importance of their jobs. We can follow the lead of Alabama, NM, Louisiana and Mississippi and pay substandard wages and we'll get substandard results, or we can follow the example of Mass., NH, Vermont, and Connecticut and pay teachers more and get better results. It's really no different than any other job. If you paid CEOs $150,000 a year, do you think there would no longer be CEOs? Of course not, but the quality of the CEOs would drop significantly.

Absolutely. Looking at the people who graduated with me that have become teachers and it's not encouraging. These are not the people you want teaching our youth, but the lack of adequate pay is selecting specifically for them.

A free market solution doesn't work in this case because people that don't have kids or have children that are already grown are never going to value education highly enough to vote for the big budget increases it will take.

 

[Legacy]

I’d favor earmarking my personal income taxes as if it was an investment.

 

[Irishize]

I’d favor earmarking my personal income taxes as if it was an investment.

Ok. The Teachers Union & the Dept of Education thanks you for you increased personal tax dollars. Now...what are you going to do about the teachers’ being underpaid?

 

[NorthDakota]

I think the point is to pay teaching professionals professional wages that are on par with the importance of their jobs. We can follow the lead of Alabama, NM, Louisiana and Mississippi and pay substandard wages and we'll get substandard results, or we can follow the example of Mass., NH, Vermont, and Connecticut and pay teachers more and get better results. It's really no different than any other job. If you paid CEOs $150,000 a year, do you think there would no longer be CEOs? Of course not, but the quality of the CEOs would drop significantly.

If states or localities want to mimic the affluent white states in the northeast, that's perfectly fine. I'm skeptical of a Federal mandate that you must pay them $XX,0000/year. The US is just too large and diverse in my opinion to have that practice.

I also dont like the the CEO comparison. That is setting a wage ceiling vs. a wage floor. Paying someone more just for the sake of paying them more seems like a poor policy to me. If they adopted a baseline and then adjusted for cost of living I'd understand it more.

 

[drayer54]

Anyone else notice Klobuchar complaining about Trump running the country like it’s a game show just before Andrew Yang announced his $120,000 sweepstakes.

Too perfect.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

As a former teacher,... the protection of those who should have been fired years ago was one of the bigger reasons I got out, no question

Same here.

 

[Legacy]

Earmarking individual federal taxes certainly has its potential problems, including the potential year-to-year variability. But more control to individuals not politicians. Guarantee Social Security a 5% return.

I like Warren's wealth tax and Yang's Value Added Tax and the Dem's Child Credit.

 

[Irishize]

Warren still hasn’t answered Biden’s question of how she proposes to pay for her free health care. I think she’s pandering and isn’t a true believer in socialism the way Bernie is. #WheresTulsi

 

[NorthDakota]

Earmarking individual federal taxes certainly has its potential problems, including the potential year-to-year variability. But more control to individuals not politicians. Guarantee Social Security a 5% return.

I like Warren's wealth tax and Yang's Value Added Tax and the Dem's Child Credit.

Shocked that Legacy likes a wealth tax. Shocked!

 

[BGIF]

Corn Pop

 

[loomis41973]

Corn Pop

That's what I named my new fish I got today.

 

[GoIrish41]

If states or localities want to mimic the affluent white states in the northeast, that's perfectly fine. I'm skeptical of a Federal mandate that you must pay them $XX,0000/year. The US is just too large and diverse in my opinion to have that practice.

I also dont like the the CEO comparison. That is setting a wage ceiling vs. a wage floor. Paying someone more just for the sake of paying them more seems like a poor policy to me. If they adopted a baseline and then adjusted for cost of living I'd understand it more.

I view the idea as if it is a minimum wage for teachers. It's not about everyone being the same, it is setting the floor at an appropriate salary that is commensurate with the importance of the job. The average teacher salary in NY is $85,889. Nobody is saying Mississippi needs to pay their teachers $85K, but what they do pay their teachers -- $45,574 -- is substandard at nearly $40K below their peers. Salaries don't need to be the same ... we just have to collectively get our heads out of our asses and pay professional teachers a fair salary if we expect academic progress (and I'd argue a fair shot at their students competing not only in the country but the world). It is clear which states put a premium on educating their children and which ones don't. Any profession serious about attracting top talent understands that compensation is a critical driver. I know lots of teachers. They aren't rich, but they also aren't moving to Mississippi anytime soon for job opportunities. Are kids in Mississippi worth less than the kids in NY or even in Hawaii, where teachers salaries are just below the national average of 61,730? I don't think so, but folks in Mississippi seem to disagree as do more than half of the states that fall below the national average to varying degrees.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I view the idea as if it is a minimum wage for teachers. It's not about everyone being the same, it is setting the floor at an appropriate salary that is commensurate with the importance of the job. The average teacher salary in NY is $85,889. Nobody is saying Mississippi needs to pay their teachers $85K, but what they do pay their teachers -- $45,574 -- is substandard at nearly $40K below their peers. Salaries don't need to be the same ... we just have to collectively get our heads out of our asses and pay professional teachers a fair salary if we expect academic progress (and I'd argue a fair shot at their students competing not only in the country but the world). It is clear which states put a premium on educating their children and which ones don't. Any profession serious about attracting top talent understands that compensation is a critical driver. I know lots of teachers. They aren't rich, but they also aren't moving to Mississippi anytime soon for job opportunities. Are kids in Mississippi worth less than the kids in NY or even in Hawaii, where teachers salaries are just below the national average of 61,730? I don't think so, but folks in Mississippi seem to disagree as do more than half of the states that fall below the national average to varying degrees.

I imagine we would give ourselves (as a country) much more flexibility and better ROI in K-12 education if we got the government the hell out of education. We have some damn good underpaid teachers and we have some piss poor overpaid teachers protected by unions.

Since education isn't mentioned in the Constitution, let the states handle it as they see fit. Or are local/ state governments not capable of determining what's best for themselves, and all 50 states need direction from politicians (most of whom have never been in the classroom) on everything from curriculum to bathroom designations?

 

[ulukinatme]

I view the idea as if it is a minimum wage for teachers. It's not about everyone being the same, it is setting the floor at an appropriate salary that is commensurate with the importance of the job. The average teacher salary in NY is $85,889. Nobody is saying Mississippi needs to pay their teachers $85K, but what they do pay their teachers -- $45,574 -- is substandard at nearly $40K below their peers. Salaries don't need to be the same ... we just have to collectively get our heads out of our asses and pay professional teachers a fair salary if we expect academic progress (and I'd argue a fair shot at their students competing not only in the country but the world). It is clear which states put a premium on educating their children and which ones don't. Any profession serious about attracting top talent understands that compensation is a critical driver. I know lots of teachers. They aren't rich, but they also aren't moving to Mississippi anytime soon for job opportunities. Are kids in Mississippi worth less than the kids in NY or even in Hawaii, where teachers salaries are just below the national average of 61,730? I don't think so, but folks in Mississippi seem to disagree as do more than half of the states that fall below the national average to varying degrees.

I'm not going to disagree that teachers should get a bit more cash, at least good teachers, but you're completely leaving cost of living out of the equation. If teachers get paid $85k to teach in New York, New York it's because the living costs are ridiculous. Certainly not in the rural areas, but Salary.com is providing lower numbers than that anyway. For a public school teacher with, I assume, a 4 year degree they're saying the average in the Big Apple is $69k and $61k for the whole state. It's not unthinkable to be paying a teacher in Mississippi $45k in comparison when the average cost of living in Mississippi is well below the average.

I don't know how reputable the site is, but on https://www.bestplaces.net they're showing the cost of living in Mississippi to be about 13% below the national average. In addition, the numbers they use from realtor.com show that the average US home is valued at $219,000 while a home in Mississippi is $129,000 which is a huge gap. Rent in Mississippi is also 2/3 the cost of the national average. If New York is considered the staple by which teachers should be paid and they're making enough to live on, why is Mississippi in such dire straits when the cost of living is so low? Again, my general position is that teachers should be paid more, but I can't justify giving Mississippi educators ten(s) of thousands more in cash. It should also be noted that there are plenty of us shlubs making the same money working 40 hour weeks every week of the year without summers off and extended holidays.

 

[IrishLax]

Warren seems to be cementing herself as the #2. In the latest NBC poll -- which was incredibly comprehensive -- she trailed Biden (31%) by only six points (25%) while Bernie is down significantly. In this NBC poll, Warren is even with Biden among white voters and leads him among Hispanic voters. Why is she trailing? 50% of black voters support for Biden.

So the math suggests that as Warren gets more name recognition and works on that constituency she will continue to gain traction on Biden heading into primary season. Offshore betting markets have her as the favorite to secure the Democratic nomination.

Biden is polling at 32% and 31% in the two major post-debate polls, which improvement from the mid-to-high 20s where he was before this most recent one. So the question is whether that number is ultimately going to be good enough... he still leads Warren by 9 points in the rolling RCP average. Six months to go until anyone casts a vote.

Also, while one vote "doesn't matter" I would suggest Republicans in this thread switch their party affiliation in any state that doesn't have an open primary if you want any influence on who the Trump alternative will be.

 

[Wild Bill]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-health.html

 

[Legacy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-health.html

For those having difficulty accessing the full article:
Sanders has heart procedure, cancels campaign events for now (AP)

 

[loomis41973]

I think the Dems need a little more Hillary in this race. She says she can beat him "again"

 

[Whiskeyjack]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Do you think religious institutions like colleges, churches, charities, should they lose their tax exempt status if they oppose same sex marriage?"<br><br>"Yes," Beto says, without missing a beat. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/LGBTQTownHall?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#LGBTQTownHall</a> <a href="https://t.co/HJpnyrYfYY">pic.twitter.com/HJpnyrYfYY</a></p>— Mary Margaret Olohan (@MaryMargOlohan) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaryMargOlohan/status/1182478492614742018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Beto saying the quiet parts out loud.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Every position Beto takes is a position most other Dems want to work towards. Beto just ignored the incrementalism. You don't think Dems want to overturn 2A? You don't think they want to force cultural norms on orthodox Christians?</p>— David Harsanyi (@davidharsanyi) <a href="https://twitter.com/davidharsanyi/status/1182651142876086272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Obama's solicitor general to SCOTUS:

Edit: I can move this to Politics or Trump Presidency if you want, Lax. Seemed most relevant here though.

 

[IrishLax]

What's wild is that Beto has faded so hard while Warren has surged. They're basically identical, except Beto is probably a little more honest about his policy positions.

Right now, it seems like a forgone conclusion that Warren is going to win the nomination. Bernie's health scare certainly helps, as does the active Trump saga with him targeting Biden. Warren is *exactly* who Trump (or any Republican) would want to run against, so things are shaking out nicely for them.

Andrew Yang is still a dark horse. He has crazy amounts of momentum because he's authentic, but mainstream media refuses to cover his surge in fundraising/polling.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Andrew Yang is still a dark horse. He has crazy amounts of momentum because he's authentic, but mainstream media refuses to cover his surge in fundraising/polling.

#YangGang

 

[ACamp1900]

What's wild is that Beto has faded so hard while Warren has surged. They're basically identical, except Beto is probably a little more honest about his policy positions.

Right now, it seems like a forgone conclusion that Warren is going to win the nomination. Bernie's health scare certainly helps, as does the active Trump saga with him targeting Biden. Warren is *exactly* who Trump (or any Republican) would want to run against, so things are shaking out nicely for them.

Andrew Yang is still a dark horse. He has crazy amounts of momentum because he's authentic, but mainstream media refuses to cover his surge in fundraising/polling.

I view Beto as a completely self serving, manipulative, crook. I don't think he beliefs anything he says, but says what his team feels will gain enough long term traction to be a significant player in his area of Texas at very least. Probably doesn't help that I've met the guy more than once now and every time he has come off as complete and total sleaze.

 

[ulukinatme]

I view Beto as a completely self serving, manipulative, crook. I don't think he beliefs anything he says, but says what his team feels will gain enough long term traction to be a significant player in his area of Texas at very least. Probably doesn't help that I've met the guy more than once now and every time he has come off as complete and total sleaze.

The fact Beto couldn't beat an unpopular Cruz despite the wads of cash the Democrats were throwing him tells me everything I need to know. He's not going to win the primary, I think a lot of people see he's a con artist.

 

[Irish#1]

Didn't watch it, but from what I've read, it sounds like they ganged up on Warren last night.

 

[RDU Irish]

Yang, Klobuchar and Gabbard should be the leaders - if substance ever mattered to Dems anyway.

 

[Irishize]

Yang, Klobuchar and Gabbard should be the leaders - if substance ever mattered to Dems anyway.

This^^^

CNN cut Gabbard off as she was asking Warren a direct question.

 

[Irish YJ]

Hilldog is now saying Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein are both Russian assets lol....

Said Gabbard is a favorite of the Russians and they'd like her to run as a 3rd party candidate.

Good lord she's embarrassing herself.