Crazy, Koolaid statements

[STLDomer]

If Springmann was not a red head from Indiana we would be impressed with the reps he put in as a sophomore and excited about his 6'5" 300 lb frame that Longo has to work with.

Springmann's luscious red flow is part of the reason I think he's awesome. Look at the guy:

As I said in another thread, dude is a freakin man child and I would take him over most any backup DEs in the country

 

[NDinL.A.]

Do we have eight 'elite' college football players in the front seven right now? No. Will at least eight of these guys be considered 'elite' college football players by the time their career is over? Yes.

It wasn't front 7, it was defensive linemen. So for me, even though the OP eventually added those players in there, I threw out players like Smith, Spond, and Councell because they aren't defensive linemen at all. And in his original list, which is what I was talking about, he never had the drop LBs in there; he had names like Springman, Utopo, Stockton, and Jones, as a way of saying we could play 12 and 8 of them will be elite. That was why I said it was crazy...there will not be 8 elite d-linemen playing at ND this year (and in my own definition of elite, there won't be 8 that make elite status in their career here IMO). But this one has been discussed to its fullest point IMO, so I'll move on to another one.

One crazy thing I said was two summers ago when I argued the entire off-season on why Dayne Crist had a higher ceiling and gave us a much better chance to win than Rees (who I regrettably said had a noodle-arm, and that defenses would crowd the box and dare him to throw over-the-top). And then it took me one half (ONE HALF!) of horrendous ND football vs. South Florida to throw all that out the window, and I was a Rees guy the rest of the year (I did think Hendrix should have started the bowl game, or at least played much more in it). Big, big fail by me.

One crazy line I remember by a member here, when the whole Golson thing went down, was that in that poster's mind, Malik Zaire's development may have been an issue Golson's departure from the team. Thought that was pretty funny. It wasn't about Golson cheating so much as it was Zaire was ready to take over the team lol.

 

[ulukinatme]

I once helped officiate a Pee Wee game that Jake Ballard was playing in. My MIL was once his babysitter too I was on the same field as LeCharles Bentley one year in high school, but didn't line up against him. Same for Ben Roethlisberger, I could have been on the same field, but neither of us was playing. Thats about the extent of my interaction with current or past Pro Athletes.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Beano Cook was the OG of Kool-Aid.

 

[ShakeDown]

My senior year Landry Jones and the rest of the Artesia Bulldogs beat the pi$$ out of us in the state championship. We were undefeated going into the game

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

I once helped officiate a Pee Wee game that Jake Ballard was playing in. My MIL was once his babysitter too I was on the same field as LeCharles Bentley one year in high school, but didn't line up against him. Same for Ben Roethlisberger, I could have been on the same field, but neither of us was playing. Thats about the extent of my interaction with current or past Pro Athletes.

I was one game away from playing Tavon Austin in high school. In hindsight, it was probably for the best that we lost and I didn't have my ankles broken by him.

I hit a double off of Matt Harvey in college, if that counts for anything. I also played against Notre Dame while Tate and Sharpley were on the team. Tate hit a double on a Bermuda Triangle ball to the shallow outfield. So fast

 

[Old Man Mike]

I have to admit that this last page of this thread just got a lot pleasanter, and even a bit more insightful. Thank you gentlemen.

 

[FearTheBeard]

Got beat down by Jaylon Smith and his team at state my senior year...he was a junior then.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Played against LeBron in a summer league game. Dude can ball.

 

[ACamp1900]

Got beat down by Jaylon Smith and his team at state my senior year...he was a junior then.

So you're Cacky's age....

 

[Cackalacky]

It wasn't front 7, it was defensive linemen. So for me, even though the OP eventually added those players in there, I threw out players like Smith, Spond, and Councell because they aren't defensive linemen at all. And in his original list, which is what I was talking about, he never had the drop LBs in there; he had names like Springman, Utopo, Stockton, and Jones, as a way of saying we could play 12 and 8 of them will be elite. That was why I said it was crazy...there will not be 8 elite d-linemen playing at ND this year (and in my own definition of elite, there won't be 8 that make elite status in their career here IMO). But this one has been discussed to its fullest point IMO, so I'll move on to another one.

One crazy thing I said was two summers ago when I argued the entire off-season on why Dayne Crist had a higher ceiling and gave us a much better chance to win than Rees (who I regrettably said had a noodle-arm, and that defenses would crowd the box and dare him to throw over-the-top). And then it took me one half (ONE HALF!) of horrendous ND football vs. South Florida to throw all that out the window, and I was a Rees guy the rest of the year (I did think Hendrix should have started the bowl game, or at least played much more in it). Big, big fail by me.

One crazy line I remember by a member here, when the whole Golson thing went down, was that in that poster's mind, Malik Zaire's development may have been an issue Golson's departure from the team. Thought that was pretty funny. It wasn't about Golson cheating so much as it was Zaire was ready to take over the team lol.

I don't think that was me but I did argue Malik could do as well as Golson did and maybe better. Certainly I took some licks for that.

 

[Grahambo]

I was friends with Todd Frazier (Cincinnati Reds) in high school.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Brittney Griner is my uncle.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Thank you, my Lord, for providing a reasonable definition of the term 'elite' as it pertains to this discussion. I'm going to take it one step further and define 'elite' at each level.

Elite high school player - earns division 1 scholarship (top 3% of all HS players)
Elite college football player - earns roster spot on NFL team (top 3% of college players)
Elite NFL player - earns Pro Bowl distinction (top 3% of NFL players)

As I see it, we have the following in ND's front seven:

Elite right now (3) - Tuitt, Nix and Shembo --- these guys are good enough right now to earn a NFL roster spot.
Elite in the near future (4) - Ishaq, Day, Grace and Springmann --- all have 2 to 3 years of eligibility left and will not test their NFL fate for a few more seasons.
Elite when all is said and done (3-5) - J. Smith, Rochell, EV (since the statement was made when he was on our team), and possibly Deeb & Randolph. --- these guys haven't played a down of college football yet but should be playing on Sundays in 4-5 years.

I think guys like Spond, Fox, Calabrese, Schwenke, Councell, etc, will get a chance to make a NFL roster, but I'd be surprised if they made the 53-man cut.

Do we have eight 'elite' college football players in the front seven right now? No. Will at least eight of these guys be considered 'elite' college football players by the time their career is over? Yes.

To get back on topic, I guess the only question left is am I crazy and drinking the koolaid or is this post more suited for a reasonable discussion on the NFL potential of our defensive front seven?

First of all that was obviously the context of my statement, because I listed EV and JS who had not even reported to ND. So my time frame was conveniently narrowed in an awkward attempt to make me look foolish.

Here is my Kool-Aid statement and prediction: Based upon the fact that he played nickel back last year at nearly 250lbs; overcame an incredible health issue; shows unbelievable resolve; has noted that he intends to play in the NFL; his game films show incredible athletic prowess, including him cutting Denard off during an acceleration burst and punching the ball loose, (the only time I ever saw anyone hang with Denard during a burst let alone knock the ball out of his hands), I think Danny Spond gets some post season recognition, and is drafted in the NFL. It may be mid to late, but he makes a roster. There, with the conclusion of the season and next April we will see Danny Spond as elite. Oh, and I have heard from a bunch of people that he is in absolutely incredible shape for this season; that he quietly goes out and "Deebs" it!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It wasn't front 7, it was defensive linemen. So for me, even though the OP eventually added those players in there, I threw out players like Smith, Spond, and Councell because they aren't defensive linemen at all. And in his original list, which is what I was talking about, he never had the drop LBs in there; he had names like Springman, Utopo, Stockton, and Jones, as a way of saying we could play 12 and 8 of them will be elite. That was why I said it was crazy...there will not be 8 elite d-linemen playing at ND this year (and in my own definition of elite, there won't be 8 that make elite status in their career here IMO). But this one has been discussed to its fullest point IMO, so I'll move on to another one.

One crazy thing I said was two summers ago when I argued the entire off-season on why Dayne Crist had a higher ceiling and gave us a much better chance to win than Rees (who I regrettably said had a noodle-arm, and that defenses would crowd the box and dare him to throw over-the-top). And then it took me one half (ONE HALF!) of horrendous ND football vs. South Florida to throw all that out the window, and I was a Rees guy the rest of the year (I did think Hendrix should have started the bowl game, or at least played much more in it). Big, big fail by me.

One crazy line I remember by a member here, when the whole Golson thing went down, was that in that poster's mind, Malik Zaire's development may have been an issue Golson's departure from the team. Thought that was pretty funny. It wasn't about Golson cheating so much as it was Zaire was ready to take over the team lol.

My original list was linemen and outside linebackers. Look it up. Quote it. Let us see it in print.

 

[NDinL.A.]

My original list was linemen and outside linebackers. Look it up. Quote it. Let us see it in print.

I allowed for the LB's like Shembo and Ishaq. No problem with them. Please show me where I didn't. Quote it. Let us see it in print.

What I said was that the drop LBs shouldn't count, because they are not defensive ends. And in your original post, I said you didn't count them. But hey, screw it, my wife is putting our baby down tonight, so I'll look it up. Here you go:

I will bet, with the presser, and a few things I have heard, that this year's d-line buries last years in terms of performance. Louis and Sheldon are going to be impossible to handle, and no one will see Stephon or Prince. They will just be there yesterday, the day before they started; that fast. Add Jarron, Ishaq, Springman, Utupo, Houndshell, and Stocton and I think we are going to have close to a dozen that can play, eight elite.

(Note I am talking down 3 of a 3-4, and CAT, because that usually provides the talent for a four down front and or has contain and plays near the line.)

Now, I know you want to make this personal, but it's not. Just the facts. You specifically said those 4 positions, and then later you tried to add Jaylon Smith and Danny Spond to bolster your position. I didn't 'lie', I didn't 'take things out of context' like you always claim when I debate something you say. It's all there for you. And your last line in the first paragraph insinuates that we'll have a 8 elite linemen playing THIS YEAR. But wait, there's more:

Stephon Tuit - Already. Period.
Louis Nix - Best nose in America! Hell, best in the universe.
Prince Shembo - I watched him routinely run around and overturn 300 + lbs tackes last season.
Ishaq Williams - He has been elite, he needs to show it on the field all game long.
Sheldon Day - He was elite as a recruit, better than both Lynch and Tuitt as a frosh; and this year he will astonish everyone. Bank on it.
Jaron Jones, 6'5"- 6'6", 300lbs +, with near Tuitt speed, and Coach Kelly's comendation, yup!
Tony Springman, over 6'6", 300lbs, and with experience. He can play anwhere along the line and keeps improving. Inside info that he is really coming on strength and conditioning wise; and the RED HAIR, come on!
Chase Houndshell As a freshman two years ago on a bad shoulder he saw really meaningful minutes and played like a champion. Kelly made a point about his size and strength gains. Dwarfed by star power he was a really good recruit, probably better than ND would have ever actually landed before the Kelly Era.
Kona Swenke 6'4-5", 300lbs, Kelly has been heard saying that he could play for anyone in the country, and Kelly came damnd close to saying it in this press conference.
Eddie Vanderdoes - Does anyone believe he is not elite?

And that leaves Justin, Isaac, and Tyler. I can afford for two to underwhelm, but I doubt they will.

Nowhere in there do you mention the DOG LB.

You're relying on glimpses of talent from a few, and h.s. stars for others, and saying they will be elite. What has Jarron Jones done to this point to say he'll be elite? He had a very disappointing spring by many accounts and his own father told one of our insiders that he needs to start bringing it more often if he wants to see the field. Kona Schwenke is a senior already, he's not elite. Hounshell's career is in jeapordy; all we saw was that as a freshman he made a couple of plays but nothing that screamed future elite. Springman has looked good at times, but really, he's shown he is a quality backup to this point and nothing more, yet. That's not elite, and I guarantee you if you asked non-ND fans, experts included, they'd say ND doesn't have anywhere near 8 elite defensive linemen...no one does really.

But yeah, those are your words.

 

[koonja]

Lol, Bogs, nothing but love, but I think you had had a bit too much pumpkin juice the night that you said all of that.


IDK how anyone defines elite, but I saw elite when we played Alabama. The only one that could make plays against their OL was Nix, and even he was quiet most of the game.

Shembo - Got stoned by blockers all night.
Tuitt - nothing.
Day - nothing.
Nix broke through a few times and showed great effort IMO.
And our 2nd string DL who some think are elite (I think they're very good, but not the best in the country), literally didn't make a play all game.

Our fans are like any other in the country, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's hard to see reality when we follow these kids from their senior (sometimes even junior year) of high-school, and almost always hear positive things about their work ethic, character, and improvements.

We become attached and think they're better than they truly are for the most part. We make it sound like our players are the only ones busting their ***, walking out of the gug alone - drenched in sweat, and showing great motivation.

Reality is, a ton of schools are doing the same thing, and some of those schools have better players.

For every Rocky, there's a Clubber Lang. Someone absolutely killing it in motivation, workouts, and character that we're unaware of.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Of course that is the clarification, not the original statement, in which I said something different than what you say I did.

At any rate, nothing I said is that off kilter. Not as far off as anything in the Brian Kelly thread.

So here is my proposal. Since over the last couple days you have shown your true self, and tens of posters just don't care anymore, why don't you look for a dead horse to beat somewhere else?

I think people have been more than kind to you, and any time you try to make yourself look good at the expense of someone else, you end up loosing traction.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Lol, Bogs, nothing but love, but I think you had had a bit too much pumpkin juice the night that you said all of that.


IDK how anyone defines elite, but I saw elite when we played Alabama. The only one that could make plays against their OL was Nix, and even he was quiet most of the game.

Shembo - Got stoned by blockers all night.
Tuitt - nothing.
Day - nothing.
Nix broke through a few times and showed great effort IMO.
And our 2nd string DL who some think are elite (I think they're very good, but not the best in the country), literally didn't make a play all game.

I ALWAYS HAVE TOO MUCH JUICE FLOWING! THAT IS WHAT A ME IS!

One game has little to do with a players elite status, pro or con.

The problems with the NC game were Tuitt's groin, and the defensive scheme. Look at how often the ends were inverted and the LB's didn't adjust.

Saban outcoached Kelly, Martin, and Diaco, more than players lost their luster. It is exactly what Kelly needed, too. Because it won't happen again. I don't know if we will always win, or even lose small, but I don't think Kelly will ever get outcoached like this again.

For proof, listen to the 'Bama interviews. There entire offense was installed to take advantage of ND's (three, lol) defensive tendencies.

 

[koonja]

Say what you want about scheme or coaching (personally, that scares me if that's true; that the coaching was what lead to that *** whooping), Alabama could have ran off tackle to either side of the line, all night long. Scheme didn't matter. They owned our front 7. They were bigger, faster, and stronger up front.

That Bama team was on a whole different level, though, I'll definitely give you that. Not sure it's even fair to use that team as a measuring stick.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Of course that is the clarification, not the original statement, in which I said something different than what you say I did.

Dude, seriously? Why do have to lie? The following, which I posted above, is your FIRST post in that entire thread. This is not a clarification...these are YOUR WORDS (and not what "I said you you said" lol); it's the 'original statement':

I will bet, with the presser, and a few things I have heard, that this year's d-line buries last years in terms of performance. Louis and Sheldon are going to be impossible to handle, and no one will see Stephon or Prince. They will just be there yesterday, the day before they started; that fast. Add Jarron, Ishaq, Springman, Utupo, Houndshell, and Stocton and I think we are going to have close to a dozen that can play, eight elite.

(Note I am talking down 3 of a 3-4, and CAT, because that usually provides the talent for a four down front and or has contain and plays near the line.)

Of course, you can check it out in this thread and report back some new story.

At any rate, nothing I said is that off kilter. Not as far off as anything in the Brian Kelly thread.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you went on any other site, even most ND ones, you'd be laughed off the site with that statement. But to each his own.

So here is my proposal. Since over the last couple days you have shown your true self, and tens of posters just don't care anymore, why don't you look for a dead horse to beat somewhere else?

Still want to make this personal huh. Look, nothing's changed. My true self was shown to you a lonnnnnnng time ago during your embarrassing act during the kissme/Denard affair. And tons of posters don't care, but yet here you are continuing to make it a personal thing. Let it go. I was sticking to the topic. Too bad you couldn't.

I think people have been more than kind to you, and any time you try to make yourself look good at the expense of someone else, you end up loosing traction.

No traction lost (loosed?), but believe what you will.

Whoops, looks like I'm on a well-deserved hiatus by the boss. Long-time coming, but it's all good. Farewell until the first game of the season...

 

[dshans]

... No traction lost (loosed?), but believe what you will.

What??? Do I detect a touch of grammar dorkiness here???

 

[dshans]

...Elite high school player - earns division 1 scholarship (top 3% of all HS players)

Picky point, perhaps, but the NFL (and college football, for that matter) has been littered with "elite" players who didn't "earn" D1 scholarships for one reason or another. I'll throw out Randy Moss as an example.

Scholarships to most SEC schools don't count.

 

[dshans]

... When a player is going full boar, you can tell. Day and Ishaq struck me as guys going full boar....

At the risk of being further thought of and labeled as a "grammar dork" I will point out that the term is "full bore", not "full boar."

I do like and appreciate the evoked image. Feral hogs with nasty tusks hurtling headlong down field is a sweet reverie.



Oh, and "dammit!"

 

[Junkhead]

Koolaid statement:
Greg Bryant goes for 750+ yards with 7+ total touchdowns.
Pure....green.......sweetness.

Those will be Greg's stats against Temple alone. (my koolaid is spiked)

 

[jakerbluegold]

Hope you brought your broom,
because this thread is a mess!

Google Image Result for http://wfiles.brothersoft.com/z/zach_galifianakis_63943-1280x800.jpg

 

[ulukinatme]

Brittney Griner is my uncle.

This needs some love and reps, I'm tapped

 

[irishog77]

This needs some love and reps, I'm tapped

Houstonian definitely gave credence to the saying, "If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle."

 

[Irish YJ]

Statement
Rees will have more passing yards and touchdowns than Johnny Football....

 

[Cackalacky]

Say what you want about scheme or coaching (personally, that scares me if that's true; that the coaching was what lead to that *** whooping), Alabama could have ran off tackle to either side of the line, all night long. Scheme didn't matter. They owned our front 7. They were bigger, faster, and stronger up front.

That Bama team was on a whole different level, though, I'll definitely give you that. Not sure it's even fair to use that team as a measuring stick.

I am pretty sure I remember Barrett Jones saying after 45 days of film and practice they knew what we were doing when we lined up. I know they had great talent, but they schemed the crap out of us for that game and physically beat us as well. Methinks that's why BK&Co. were with the Patriots this summer (trying to hide tendencies or add wrinkles).

I watched a good film on Alabama's secondary last year and they showed how the secondary shifted/adjusted an average of 2-3 times prior to each snap based on what opposing team/QB was doing in their sets with checks.

They definitely have talent, but scheming is top notch in college football. I will give Saban all the credit in the world for that.