COVID-19

[IrishLax]

Classic CNN'er. Make statement without context.

I said if I were single and lived alone, I would gladly take it, get past it, so I can get back to life and not be infecting people.

You're turning into Fake News of IE. That's a lonely island Professor Chaos.

Don't underestimate how many people have nothing better to do. Their lives are meaningless so getting behind the fear porn gives them something to part of something.

I genuinely hope I get it soon just so I can get through it before the nice part of spring starts. Not my first virus.

It's not to prove a point. I think there's a good chance millions get this. I'd just rather get it out of the way before the good part of spring/summer.

Your words, in two posts. Stop gaslighting everyone.

 

[IrishLion]

Your words, in two posts. Stop gaslighting everyone.

 

[zelezo vlk]

You're going nuts. For the record, I am social distancing. My family of 3 has been taking it easy and in home since Monday and we will continue to for another week to see where this goes. It's the right thing to do.

But the mortality rate is wrong. Doctors and other health care experts don't believe this is NEARLY as deadly as people like you think it is. This isn't one person's opinion that's in the field, I literally have these conversations in the most private of meetings every day.

You say you don't control the board's opinions (you do this often, BTW). Yet you're telling anyone who's not taking CNN articles at face value, anyone thinking critically beyond what the cherry-picked articles say, anyone who actually works in this or has people in the medical field, to buzz off and that they're spreading "misinformation" if they don't agree with your opinion.

That's nuts, man.

Koon, you're being dumb, sit this one out champ.

 

[koonja]

Your words, in two posts. Stop gaslighting everyone.

Lol, you got me. If I were single and I lived alone, I would get it to get it over with while isolating.

You're being nuts right now. You're depending on articles to tell others who look beyond the articles to stop thinking and start buying the panic.

Let people think for themselves. Let the share anecdotes you don't have the visibility into, let the articles that refute your bias breath.


Don't belive me - panic all you want. People who have worked on this their whole lives that know WAY more than you or I have repeatedly calmed any concern I've had from blindlessly buying CNN articles.

Panic away - just stop trying to suffocate any opinioms that don't follow you, professor Chaos.

 

[Irish2155]

Your words, in two posts. Stop gaslighting everyone.

Too lazy to look but when did he make these comments? Not trying to get in the middle of your guy's circle jerk but things are changing dramatically from day to day, hell even hour to hour. His stance might have changed since making these comments as I know mine sure has.

 

[IrishLax]

You're going nuts. For the record, I am social distancing. My family of 3 has been taking it easy and in home since Monday and we will continue to for another week to see where this goes. It's the right thing to do.

But the mortality rate is wrong. Doctors and other health care experts don't believe this is NEARLY as deadly as people like you think it is. This isn't one person's opinion that's in the field, I literally have these conversations in the most private of meetings every day.

You say you don't control the board's opinions (you do this often, BTW). Yet you're telling anyone who's not taking CNN articles at face value, anyone thinking critically beyond what the cherry-picked articles say, anyone who actually works in this or has people in the medical field, to buzz off and that they're spreading "misinformation" if they don't agree with your opinion.

That's nuts, man.

It's beyond comical to take me linking one article from CNN -- that has zero factual errors, by the way -- and say something like this. I get it, it's way easier to attack a straw man. But I have absolutely no respect for your lies at this point. This isn't some irishpat debate from back in the day where your antics are funny because Richard Yeargin = Mario Williams or whatever the troll topic of the day was. We are talking about people's lives and the global economy.

You are actively spreading misinformation. You are pretending that it is coming from knowledgeable and esteemed medical experts who "can't say it publicly." This is dangerous, and it's not funny. Meanwhile, we have messaging from actual experts that contradicts everything you've been putting in this thread.

 

[IrishLax]

Lol, you got me. If I were single and I lived alone, I would get it to get it over with while isolating.

Which isn't what you said in those two posts, but glad you can admit that you're just trolling for fun here and lying to everyone.

 

[koonja]

It's beyond comical to take me linking one article from CNN -- that has zero factual errors, by the way -- and say something like this. I get it, it's way easier to attack a straw man. But I have absolutely no respect for your lies at this point. This isn't some irishpat debate from back in the day where your antics are funny because Richard Yeargin = Mario Williams or whatever the troll topic of the day was. We are talking about people's lives and the global economy.

You are actively spreading misinformation. You are pretending that it is coming from knowledgeable and esteemed medical experts who "can't say it publicly." This is dangerous, and it's not funny. Meanwhile, we have messaging from actual experts that contradicts everything you've been putting in this thread.

So taking Doctors and health insurance experts opinions is spreading lies?

That's steep. Are you sure you're not just upset because you've pillaged down this bullish path, and now you're doubling down... And calling anyone with anything OTHER than a public article, a liar? Forget the fact I literally shared an article downplaying yours.

Professor Chaos I tell ya. Calling anything you didn't see in an article a "lie" is exactly what I said --- you try to control the board based on your limited visibility into this.

That's really weird behavior.

 

[tussin]

Lol, you got me. If I were single and I lived alone, I would get it to get it over with while isolating.

You're being nuts right now. You're depending on articles to tell others who look beyond the articles to stop thinking and start buying the panic.

Let people think for themselves. Let the share anecdotes you don't have the visibility into, let the articles that refute your bias breath.


Don't belive me - panic all you want. People who have worked on this their whole lives that know WAY more than you or I have repeatedly calmed any concern I've had from blindlessly buying CNN articles.

Panic away - just stop trying to suffocate any opinioms that don't follow you, professor Chaos.

Koon -- we all have "doctor friends." I am friends with the female doctor who delivered the first baby to test positive for COVID in NYC. She says the healthcare system in NYC is about to get destroyed and it's just a matter of days. One of my groomsmen is a nurse anesthetist at a major hospital in Philly -- they also expect to run out of beds in short order. You talked to a few individuals that have a laissez-faire attitude toward the crisis but that doesn't discount the thousands of first-hand accounts that say otherwise.

I think there are valid questions to be asked on whether the economic restrictions are "worth it" so to speak, but its foolish to discount the nature of the disease itself.

 

[Ndaccountant]

My wife wrapping up an all-hands-on-deck call Fortune 500 company she works at. They just said this will be much worse than the 2008 financial crisis, and that they're furloughing all non-critical personnel for 60-90 days.

Someone who works for fortune 50, dealing with forecasts a d releases, I can say the initial drop will be worse. It's just a matter if the confidence will be there to make an immediate bounce back or not. Personally, corporate and sovereign debt will be exceedingly challenged.

 

[GowerND11]

Koon -- we all have "doctor friends." I am friends with the female doctor who delivered the first baby to test positive for COVID in NYC. She says the healthcare system in NYC is about to get destroyed and it's just a matter of days. One of my groomsmen is a nurse anesthetist at a major hospital in Philly -- they also expect to run out of beds in short order. You talked to a few individuals that have a laissez-faire attitude toward the crisis but that doesn't discount the thousands of first-hand accounts that say otherwise.

I think there are valid questions to be asked on whether the economic restrictions are "worth it" so to speak, but its foolish to discount the nature of the disease itself.

Now this is a quality post about the topic at hand.

 

[koonja]

Koon -- we all have "doctor friends." I am friends with the female doctor who delivered the first baby to test positive for COVID in NYC. She says the healthcare system in NYC is about to get destroyed and it's just a matter of days. One of my groomsmen is a nurse anesthetist at a major hospital in Philly -- they also expect to run out of beds in short order. You talked to a few individuals that have a laissez-faire attitude toward the crisis but that doesn't discount the thousands of first-hand accounts that say otherwise.

I think there are valid questions to be asked on whether the economic restrictions are "worth it" so to speak, but its foolish to discount the nature of the disease itself.

That's fine to question my opinion. I'm fine with that, I share mine, take it or leave it.

But Professor Chaos freaks out if you don't buy his, and if he has any insights into this beyond what a 12 year old could google, he hasn't shared them.

I do speak to doctor friends. But I'm also responsible for 8.8 million members of a health plan, and I meet with people daily about this, clinicians, executives, pharmacy leaders, etc. All know way more than I do, so I listen.

If you think an article has ever told the full picture and that's more valuable than the conversations behind the scenes, argee to disagree.

I'm not just speaking from a beer with a buddy.

 

[nlroma1o]

It's beyond comical to take me linking one article from CNN -- that has zero factual errors, by the way -- and say something like this. I get it, it's way easier to attack a straw man. But I have absolutely no respect for your lies at this point. This isn't some irishpat debate from back in the day where your antics are funny because Richard Yeargin = Mario Williams or whatever the troll topic of the day was. We are talking about people's lives and the global economy.

You are actively spreading misinformation. You are pretending that it is coming from knowledgeable and esteemed medical experts who "can't say it publicly." This is dangerous, and it's not funny. Meanwhile, we have messaging from actual experts that contradicts everything you've been putting in this thread.

Prove it then. You can't. Just like I can't prove that the media purposely went nuts 2 weeks when Italy escalated and now we are in full blow panic. I can't prove it. But I suspect they were chomping at the bit to rile up the masses to get their clicks.

I don't trust the government personally. I tend to believe this may be worse then they are telling us. But I sure as hell don't trust the media, they are constantly spewing bullshit. They used to be somewhat calculated and professional b. Now they are littered with self proclaimed experts and glorified college bloggers, who are now "legit" because they are paid pennies to post their crap on the internet. The media has no clue what is actually going on. Government agencies only reveal to the media what they want them to know. To assume they tell us the whole truth is naive.

We are adults here. Everyone takes what everyone says with a grain of salt. This is the internet after all.

This argument is getting ridiculous.

 

[IrishLax]

So taking Doctors and health insurance experts opinions is spreading lies?

This isn't what you're doing. The CDC, WHO, etc. are making statements that contradict everything you are posting. These are the actual experts, as well as multiple other experts making public statements and publishing scholarly articles. You posting that "your surgeon friend" and "CMO" have these polar opposite opinions than real experts but they "can't say it publicly"... and that these nameless people are who we should all listen to... is a joke. You think you're the only person on a board full of Notre Dame people that knows doctors?

Everyone hopes the mortality rate is as low as possible. Everyone hopes that we level the curve as soon as possible and don't overwhelm the healthcare system. You're the only one actively saying you hope you can get infected so you can enjoy your summer (and then lying about what you said), you're the only person pretending the "worst of the worst" case scenario for deaths is less than 1%, and you're one of a few people pretending this is all hysteria that we don't need to take seriously. It's your kind of misinformation and attitude that leads to people ignoring social distancing guidelines and partying on the beaches because they don't want to miss their spring break or the equivalent.

Enough.

 

[IrishLax]

Prove it then. You can't. Just like I can't prove that the media purposely went nuts 2 weeks when Italy escalated and now we are in full blow panic. I can't prove it. But I suspect they were chomping at the bit to rile up the masses to get their clicks.

I don't trust the government personally. I tend to believe this may be worse then they are telling us. But I sure as hell don't trust the media, they are constantly spewing bullshit. They used to be somewhat calculated and professional b. Now they are littered with self proclaimed experts and glorified college bloggers, who are now "legit" because they are paid pennies to post their crap on the internet. The media has no clue what is actually going on. Government agencies only reveal to the media what they want them to know. To assume they tell us the whole truth is naive.

We are adults here. Everyone takes what everyone says with a grain of salt. This is the internet after all.

This argument is getting ridiculous.

Is this a joke? How can I prove a negative?

If Koon wants to give us the contact information of his CMO and "surgeon friend" I'm happy to reach out to them.

 

[IrishLax]

Koon -- we all have "doctor friends." I am friends with the female doctor who delivered the first baby to test positive for COVID in NYC. She says the healthcare system in NYC is about to get destroyed and it's just a matter of days. One of my groomsmen is a nurse anesthetist at a major hospital in Philly -- they also expect to run out of beds in short order. You talked to a few individuals that have a laissez-faire attitude toward the crisis but that doesn't discount the thousands of first-hand accounts that say otherwise.

I think there are valid questions to be asked on whether the economic restrictions are "worth it" so to speak, but its foolish to discount the nature of the disease itself.

Phrased way better than I could put it. Thank you.

 

[nlroma1o]

Is this a joke? How can I prove a negative?

If Koon wants to give us the contact information of his CMO and "surgeon friend" I'm happy to reach out to them.

That's my point. You're speaking with absolute conviction.

 

[ACamp1900]

Keep pushing for treatment, camp. Protocal is constantly changing so they may agree to test/treat you moving forward. Get well.

Thanks. I got some pms and rep comments too. I don’t want to worry anyone and my intent was to only state I can confirm they aren’t testing everyone. Wasn’t meant to be dramatic,... I don’t feel bad enough to worry, nor does she, yet... but yeah I have a strange cold or something and it’s def different... but no high fever I guess is the key.

 

[IrishLax]

In full transparency -- Koon absolutely has the job he says he does, and absolutely talks to the kinds of people he says he does.

But many of us have heard contradicting things not just from "Government experts" but also friends that we have that are doctors. Like half of Notre Dame goes to freaking medical school. So what I take issue with is him (and anyone else) who tries to downplay the seriousness of what's going or make it sound like the protocols that will quickly contain this thing are somehow unnecessary or overkill. If people took his opinions to heart on "get infected now so you can go back to living your life!" there would be total collapse of our hospital system.

And with that I'm out for a bit.

 

[IrishLion]

Prove it then. You can't. Just like I can't prove that the media purposely went nuts 2 weeks when Italy escalated and now we are in full blow panic. I can't prove it. But I suspect they were chomping at the bit to rile up the masses to get their clicks.

I don't trust the government personally. I tend to believe this may be worse then they are telling us. But I sure as hell don't trust the media, they are constantly spewing bullshit. They used to be somewhat calculated and professional b. Now they are littered with self proclaimed experts and glorified college bloggers, who are now "legit" because they are paid pennies to post their crap on the internet. The media has no clue what is actually going on. Government agencies only reveal to the media what they want them to know. To assume they tell us the whole truth is naive.

We are adults here. Everyone takes what everyone says with a grain of salt. This is the internet after all.

This argument is getting ridiculous.

It's not the media that's in a panic now, though. They hit the panic buttons two weeks ago in their 5 o'clock reports.

It's people working in the medical industry, with boots on the ground in medical facilities right now (not in videoconference meetings with office workers), telling people that this is about to get bad.

The media does spew all kinds of shit for ratings and clicks, but this issue moves beyond that, IMO, because we keep hearing from nurses and doctors that this is about to overwhelm our healthcare system in certain places, and could cause widespread issues if we don't put everything on pause for 2-4 weeks.

I don't doubt that Koon's surgeon friend thinks this is going to "blow over" because not that many people are going to die... but I also have reservations about the fact that he's dealing with health insurance people right now and taking them at their word (LOL), and also that he STILL seems to miss the point that a low death rate is still devastating if a high enough percentage of people are infected.

That's the issue I take with how people like Koon are treating this.

 

[koonja]

This isn't what you're doing. The CDC, WHO, etc. are making statements that contradict everything you are posting. These are the actual experts, as well as multiple other experts making public statements and publishing scholarly articles. You posting that "your surgeon friend" and "CMO" have these polar opposite opinions than real experts but they "can't say it publicly"... and that these nameless people are who we should all listen to... is a joke. You think you're the only person on a board full of Notre Dame people that knows doctors?

Everyone hopes the mortality rate is as low as possible. Everyone hopes that we level the curve as soon as possible and don't overwhelm the healthcare system. You're the only one actively saying you hope you can get infected so you can enjoy your summer (and then lying about what you said), you're the only person pretending the "worst of the worst" case scenario for deaths is less than 1%, and you're one of a few people pretending this is all hysteria that we don't need to take seriously. It's your kind of misinformation and attitude that leads to people ignoring social distancing guidelines and partying on the beaches because they don't want to miss their spring break or the equivalent.

Enough.

So not only do you take CNN articles as bible... You put your full faith in the LARGEST governing bodies telling the 100% truth to 350 million?

You've never been involved in anything big where the real tough convos are behind closed doors, have you... My God.

Believe what you want. Keep refreshing CDC.org and CNN websites. I can't stop you.

But stop trying to suffocate people who may have insights beyond what you googled, professor Chaos.

#BoardControl

 

[IrishLion]

So not only do you take CNN articles as bible... You put your full faith in the LARGEST governing bodies telling the 100% truth to 350 million?

You've never been involved in anything big where the real tough convos are behind closed doors, have you... My God.

Believe what you want. Keep refreshing CDC.org and CNN websites. I can't stop you.

But stop trying to suffocate people who may have insights beyond what you googled, professor Chaos.

#BoardControl

So in one breath you express skepticism at someone who takes the CDC and WHO at their word...

And in the next you express your full faith in a bunch of corporate health experts and health insurance reps.

#CmonMan

 

[BeauBenken]

So not only do you take CNN articles as bible... You put your full faith in the LARGEST governing bodies telling the 100% truth to 350 million?

You've never been involved in anything big where the real tough convos are behind closed doors, have you... My God.

Believe what you want. Keep refreshing CDC.org and CNN websites. I can't stop you.

But stop trying to suffocate people who may have insights beyond what you googled, professor Chaos.

#BoardControl

A couple of things Koon. What type of work do you actually do?

What does your "surgeon friend" specialize in? I assume it is not epidemiology.

Also, stop attacking CNN as a source. They currently stand as a more valid source than your hearsay. People can at least see where their information is coming from.

And answer this, honestly, from what you know, should people be practicing social distancing and quarantine procedures given by the CDC and President?

 

[nlroma1o]

I honestly don't know what to think anymore. I started out thinking this is nothing. Then I switched to, this is going to be a lot worse then they are telling us. That's currently where I am at.

On a side note:

Has anyone considered all of the, non-COVID19 related, deaths that will be caused due to mandated shelter in place, and mass hysteria that is days away?

Someone could beat home and have a serious fall and not go into the doctor because they are scared to go to the hospital, or the hospital tells them to stay away. And then they die from something related to the fall.

Does anyone factor that into this mess?

 

[tussin]

So not only do you take CNN articles as bible... You put your full faith in the LARGEST governing bodies telling the 100% truth to 350 million?

You've never been involved in anything big where the real tough convos are behind closed doors, have you... My God.

Believe what you want. Keep refreshing CDC.org and CNN websites. I can't stop you.

But stop trying to suffocate people who may have insights beyond what you googled, professor Chaos.

#BoardControl

This is a comical post. Everyone is being fed lies... but you? Random mid-level employee at insurance company knows the real truth, but everyone else is a pawn of the CDC. That's a flat-earther argument right there.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not going to take either side, but Lax, I don't think you give people enough credit. To think Koon is influencing people might be short sighted. Those that believe this is blown out of proportion aren't going to change their minds unless they or a family member gets it and then if it doesn't kill, they'll simply say it wasn't a big deal. The rest of us aren't going to be influenced by Koon or anyone else. We'll take all of the information, digest it and do what is most prudent which is error on the side of caution.

 

[nlroma1o]

I'm not going to take either side, but Lax, I don't think you give people enough credit. To think Koon is influencing people might be short sighted. Those that believe this is blown out of proportion aren't going to change their minds unless they or a family member gets it and then if it doesn't kill, they'll simply say it wasn't a big deal. The rest of us aren't going to be influenced by Koon or anyone else. We'll take all of the information, digest it and do what is most prudent which is error on the side of caution.

^^This

Thank you.

 

[BeauBenken]

I'm not going to take either side, but Lax, I don't think you give people enough credit. To think Koon is influencing people might be short sighted. Those that believe this is blown out of proportion aren't going to change their minds unless they or a family member gets it and then if it doesn't kill, they'll simply say it wasn't a big deal. The rest of us aren't going to be influenced by Koon or anyone else. We'll take all of the information, digest it and do what is most prudent which is error on the side of caution.

There have been at least a couple of people who have tried to defend his arguments already and others who believe this a bunch of bologna already looking for any bit of info they can find to agree with their view.

Koon is presenting himself as someone in the know and that could be problematic.

 

[IrishLion]

There have been at least a couple of people who have tried to defend his arguments already and others who believe this a bunch of bologna already looking for any bit of info they can find to agree with their view.

Koon is presenting himself as someone in the know and that could be problematic.

But he is in the know.

We are supposed to trust his boardroom health experts and health insurance reps.

We are NOT supposed to trust the CDC and the WHO, nor the doctors and nurses on the ground in overwhelmed hospitals trying to tell people how bad this is going to get.

 

[koonja]

So in one breath you express skepticism at someone who takes the CDC and WHO at their word...

And in the next you express your full faith in a bunch of corporate health experts and health insurance reps.

#CmonMan

A couple of things Koon. What type of work do you actually do?

What does your "surgeon friend" specialize in? I assume it is not epidemiology.

Also, stop attacking CNN as a source. They currently stand as a more valid source than your hearsay. People can at least see where their information is coming from.

And answer this, honestly, from what you know, should people be practicing social distancing and quarantine procedures given by the CDC and President?

This is a comical post. Everyone is being fed lies... but you? Random mid-level employee at insurance company knows the real truth -- everyone else is a pawn of the CDC. That's a flat-earther argument right there.

I've never spoke to a health insurance rep, I work in internal operations, never sales. I'm talking to clinicians, not business people.

I'm the director of Pharmacy ops for a Fortune 10 company.

It is not epidemiology. And to be clear, he doesn't work with me, he's just a friend. He's an orthopedic surgeon.

That's very untrue, and that has more to do with CNN being a joke.

Yes - social distancing is good because this does spread fast. It's just not as fatal as CNN and other reports will tell you (If you like articles over candid conversations, I did link one that estimates the true mortality rate is ~.125% in the previous page).

I am mid level. I'm not rich and I'd argue underpaid. I'm a nobody to the big wigs at a company like this. But due to my position and this issue catching storm, I get to be part of conversations of small groups that are very candid that I usually wouldn't be privy to.

That's it - have at it. I'm out. Not the first time I've stood up and been laughed at for it on this board, lol.