College Basketball - FBI investigation

Woneone

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I'm sure he's been approached by someone from somewhere. Being that Vandy has been a major player I don't think he's about the dolla dolla bill yo. Had offers from every blue blood program and lives right over the border from Louisville. I'd think if he were that kind of kid we would have seen him all over the NC, Duke, KY, Ville, KS, and other offers. But you never know. KS is fading and it looks to be a Vandy/IU contest. High education institute vs in-state institute doesn't scream obvious crap to me. Wade Baldwin's name from Vandy was tied to the probe. Doesn't appear that he was steered to Vandy, just that he was approached on his way out. If Archie gets Romeo clean, IU will be an instant threat in the B10.

This is the problem I have with the initial Yahoo report. It has no context. Many of those individuals that were on the list, such as DJ, Baldwin, and Van Fleet, May have been meeting with him in a completely valid manner. They were in the middle of looking for representation for the NBA. Yet, Yahoo released the story as is, it’s almost as if they got the document in their email and just posted it to the site. They knew what the public reaction would be.
 

BobbyMac

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I'm sure he's been approached by someone from somewhere. Being that Vandy has been a major player I don't think he's about the dolla dolla bill yo. Had offers from every blue blood program and lives right over the border from Louisville. I'd think if he were that kind of kid we would have seen him all over the NC, Duke, KY, Ville, KS, and other offers. But you never know. KS is fading and it looks to be a Vandy/IU contest. High education institute vs in-state institute doesn't scream obvious crap to me. Wade Baldwin's name from Vandy was tied to the probe. Doesn't appear that he was steered to Vandy, just that he was approached on his way out. If Archie gets Romeo clean, IU will be an instant threat in the B10.

Romeo's gonna go play for my former ball boy alongside my HS/college rival's son and it won't be my former PG who gets him to IU.

Got a lot of irons in this fire.
 

BobbyMac

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Originally Posted by NDCrusader
Romeo's gonna go play for my former ball boy alongside my HS/college rival's son and it won't be my former PG who gets him to IU.

Got a lot of irons in this fire.

u mind translating ? lol

Romeo's going to play for Bryce w/ Garland cuz Eddie won' t land him for IU.
 

Irish YJ

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Romeo's going to play for Bryce w/ Garland cuz Eddie won' t land him for IU.

what i thought, but you had me lost on the Eddie piece.

Ball boy gonna lose this one.
Romeo is going to be Archie's crown jewel signature recruit for the new regime :).

I'm a huge fan of BD BTW.
 

BobbyMac

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I can give some of you Hoosier holdouts some good news that you may, or may not have known:

Eddie should be able to get Keion Brooks Jr from Fort Wayne who most thought was leaning to Izzo. Eddie coached his Dad at Wright State.
 

Irish YJ

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I can give some of you Hoosier holdouts some good news that you may, or may not have known:

Eddie should be able to get Keion Brooks Jr from Fort Wayne who most thought was leaning to Izzo. Eddie coached his Dad at Wright State.

I knew about the connection, but what makes you think he's Eddie's to lose?
 

BobbyMac

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I knew about the connection, but what makes you think he's Eddie's to lose?

I'm not confident enough to say he's Ed's to lose, just saying he should be able to get him or maybe better, he has a better chance than most think of landing him.

Just checked, he has a few CB's to IU. figured it would have been all MSU.
 

Irish2155

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what i thought, but you had me lost on the Eddie piece.

Ball boy gonna lose this one.
Romeo is going to be Archie's crown jewel signature recruit for the new regime :).

I'm a huge fan of BD BTW.

I think Romeo's mind is made up and it is not IU. The dude is selling out gyms every place he plays and the crowd noise wouldn't be favorable if he doesn't choose IU.
 

Irish YJ

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I think Romeo's mind is made up and it is not IU. The dude is selling out gyms every place he plays and the crowd noise wouldn't be favorable if he doesn't choose IU.

CBs trending to Vandy since last month, but not giving up hope just yet. Vandy going 5-10 in conference is worse than IU's 9-9 mark. IDK. Vandy is pulling in one hell of a class. Two 5 star kids and one high 4 star. Pulling in Romeo would put them in the top 2 classes for 2018. That kind of haul at Vandy might be a little suspicious lol.
 

Irish YJ

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Will be interesting to see how AZ plays tonight without miller vs Oregon. Those kids have to be pretty directionless right now.
 

yankeehater

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Horrible analogy



Yeah, slamming a Top 5-10 program going back to Lute's arrival is non-impactful.



Couldn't get the job done? Who's won more games this decade? Self, Few, Calipari, maybe Greg Marshall? Come on man.

This reminds of a story a buddy of mine who attended the UofA during the Lute Olson era (late 80's early 90's) told me. The day of a final in one his classes several of the basketball players showed up and he was like damn I didn't know these guys were in my class. He said he looked at their papers and more than one did not even sign their name let alone answer a question on the exam yet he said never did one ever become ineligible academically.
 

Luckylucci

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What’s funny about Sean Miller and Arizona getting in caught is this has been talked about for years in recruiting circles. All over the rivals main board at different periods of time. I’m more surprised it took this long and that folks like Jay Bilas were caught with their pants down on this.
 

Irish#1

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There's a reason the top BB schools keep getting the studs year in and year out and it's not all because the coaches are great guys or great coaches.

Wooden and Rupp didn't make their schools blue bloods on the coaching ability alone.
 

IrishLion

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There's a reason the top BB schools keep getting the studs year in and year out and it's not all because the coaches are great guys or great coaches.

Wooden and Rupp didn't make their schools blue bloods on the coaching ability alone.

It shouldn't even be a question/debate/shocker.

You don't have World Wide Wes sitting behind the UK bench with the UK players' families if there isn't money involved. That's what the guy does. He gets players money. Period.

A guy like that, with that influence, isn't spending his nights at UK games just for good will and because he's buddy-buddy with Calipari. He's spending his nights there because he's already got stake in three or four of the players.
 

T Town Tommy

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The NCAA is going to have a very difficult time proving much of anything. Unless you have hard evidence such as wire taps from the FBI, a name in a book or a spreadsheet means nothing. There's a reason Miller and Pitino aren't coaching now. There's also a reason why the current players mentioned in the article are playing. That's my opinion of the whole mess anyways.
 

ND NYC

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college BB is dirty as hell but do need to keep in mind that many of the players in those expense reports were in the nba at the time. also, just because guy says he was with people doesn't mean he was, anyone who has filled out an expense report understands this.
 

RDU Irish

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Baseball eligibility rules applied solved probably 80% of the problem. Three year college commitment or go straight pro. One and done should have never happened - NBA can suck rocks.
 

Irish#1

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I used to be for a mandatory two, three or four years before eligibility. That way when they don't make the league, they have something to fall back on and hopefully have a decent future. However, I've changed my mind. If a kid wants to try out and he fails, I'll be happy to pay him to deliver my pizza.
 

T Town Tommy

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I used to be for a mandatory two, three or four years before eligibility. That way when they don't make the league, they have something to fall back on and hopefully have a decent future. However, I've changed my mind. If a kid wants to try out and he fails, I'll be happy to pay him to deliver my pizza.

The problem here is the fact that too many of these kids and their families are being fed BS from leeches and firmly believe they are ready for the big time. In the end, the player and his family have to make decisions that aren't always based on their interests. I could be for a two or three year college commitment with the school having to honor their remaining scholarship time if they choose to get a degree later on if they wash out in the NBA. The NBA side of things is more difficult to figure out. They don't care about collegiate athletics.
 

T Town Tommy

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It shouldn't even be a question/debate/shocker.

You don't have World Wide Wes sitting behind the UK bench with the UK players' families if there isn't money involved. That's what the guy does. He gets players money. Period.

A guy like that, with that influence, isn't spending his nights at UK games just for good will and because he's buddy-buddy with Calipari. He's spending his nights there because he's already got stake in three or four of the players.

I think you are a bit off with World Wide Wes. His job isn't to pay the players. Here's why:

The money trail in CBB is much different than bagmen in CFB. In CBB, the money changes hands well before a kid shows up on campus. And more times than not, the kid doesn't even know about it. Three key bits of info must be known when recruiting a basketball player. A coach identifies the talent. He then identifies who the decision makers are for the kid. Is it mom, dad, coach, family advisor? Lastly, will the decision be based on money?

Once the answers to those three questions are determined, the process starts on how to get money to the decision makers. Is it through a shoe comapny like Adidas? Is it through an agency like ASM and Andy Miller? Or is it through a booster?

World Wide Wes is probably the guy finding these answers out and offering his services to complete the process. And I doubt the player involved ever really knows. Shield them from the process so they can deny honestly most of the time that they ever knew people were getting money on their behalf.
 

IrishLion

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I think you are a bit off with World Wide Wes. His job isn't to pay the players. Here's why:

The money trail in CBB is much different than bagmen in CFB. In CBB, the money changes hands well before a kid shows up on campus. And more times than not, the kid doesn't even know about it. Three key bits of info must be known when recruiting a basketball player. A coach identifies the talent. He then identifies who the decision makers are for the kid. Is it mom, dad, coach, family advisor? Lastly, will the decision be based on money?

Once the answers to those three questions are determined, the process starts on how to get money to the decision makers. Is it through a shoe comapny like Adidas? Is it through an agency like ASM and Andy Miller? Or is it through a booster?

World Wide Wes is probably the guy finding these answers out and offering his services to complete the process. And I doubt the player involved ever really knows. Shield them from the process so they can deny honestly most of the time that they ever knew people were getting money on their behalf.

I didn't say his job was to pay the players directly. I said his job was to get them money. He's the grand facilitator. That's why he's spending his time in Lexington... not because he enjoys Calipari's company, or the company of players' families.

If there wasn't money involved at the present, he wouldn't be there wasting his time for a potential future investment.
 

irishtrain

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We all know the difference between bb and football-fewer players larger sums, in football the delivery system is different, easier disguised, and the same $$$$ just spread over more people. I've heard the football system is a family sponsor in certain towns with certain teams. You know the kid comes over to the house for dinner because he's friends with the family or taken a liking to their son or daughter and leaves with that weeks or months payment-'straight cash homey'. Football schools have it down to a science.
 

ACamp1900

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I totally opened this thread expecting the bump to be about Brey one day after he got an extension.... lol... NDfanptsd... it's real.
 

NDohio

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NCAA is releasing their findings on the Adidas/ College Bball probe this morning at headquarters in Indy...
 

Irish#1

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They'll probably throw everyone but themselves under the bus. I hope an FBI report comes out and admonishes the NCAA for failure to properly monitor schools and its inequality when it metes out punishment.
 

Irish#1

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Well, I was right. They blamed administrators and coaches but let the NCAA off the hook.

"NBA commissioner Adam Silver and NBPA executive director Michele Roberts released a joint statement Wednesday saying they will "continue to assess" the commission's suggestions on draft eligibility rules."

Reading between the lines, "Don't tell us what to do."



From ESPN.com
The Commission on College Basketball recommended an end to the one-and-done rule, potential lifetime bans for rule-breakers and changes to the relationship between the NCAA and apparel companies.

"We need to put the college back in college basketball," commission chairman and former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Wednesday at a news conference in Indianapolis after the independent panel released a detailed 60-page report.

"Our focus has been to strengthen the collegiate model -- not to move toward one that brings aspects of professionalism into the game," Rice added.

NCAA president Mark Emmert has said he wants reforms in place by August.

"The NCAA appreciates the thorough review and comprehensive work by the Commission on College Basketball," Emmert said in a statement. "The Board of Governors and Division I Board of Directors will now review the independent commission's recommendations to determine the appropriate next steps."


Condoleezza Rice, who chaired the Commission on College Basketball, said there is a lot of work to do to bring about reform to college basketball. "The state of the game is not very strong," she told the AP. "We had to be bold in our recommendations."

The 12-member commission was formed in the wake of last fall's FBI investigation into corruption and fraud in college basketball and recruiting. Ten people were arrested in September, including officials at Adidas and assistant coaches at Arizona, Oklahoma State, USC and Auburn. NC State and Kansas were mentioned in more recent court documents. Former Louisville head coach Rick Pitino also lost his job as a result of the probe, whose findings allege that five-star recruit Brian Bowen received $100,000 to sign with the Cardinals.

The committee's report called the environment surrounding college basketball "a toxic mix of perverse incentives to cheat," and said that responsibility for the current mess goes all the way up to university presidents.

Ending one-and-done is the biggest change suggested by the commission, even though it's an NBA rule -- which Rice pointed out. The commission wants 18-year-olds to again be eligible for the NBA draft, allowing a path to the pros directly out of high school.

The rule was implemented in 2006 despite the success of straight-from-high-school stars such as LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett.

The most significant thing is that the dialogue has been opened up," committee member and Hall of Famer David Robinson told ESPN's Get Up on Wednesday. "All these different constituents [NBA, apparel companies, NCAA, coaches, administrators] ... came to the table to discuss some of these matters, which were in silos before. It opened up a tremendous dialogue.

"I think we all agree we have to do what's in the best interests of these kids. We have to give them options, open up their eyes to the reality of the situation: 'What percent of you are going to play in the pros?' The rest of them need an education. That is what's going to be the real value here -- going to college. Not so you can skip through college and get to the NBA as quickly as possible."

If a change is not made to one-and-done, Rice said the commission will look into options, such as making freshmen ineligible or locking a scholarship for three or four years if the recipient leaves a program after one year.

"One-and-done has to go one way or another," Rice told The Associated Press.

The NBA and NBPA conversations on eliminating the one-and-done rule are centered on the 2020 draft as the earliest possible date for change, league sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski on Wednesday. The Players Association's executive committee, including president Chris Paul, won't meet until after the NBA season.

The commission also recommends college players should be able to return to school if they go undrafted, as long as they don't sign a professional contract. As it stands, players can test NBA draft waters without an agent, but must withdraw their name weeks before the draft should they decide to return to school.

"Erroneously entering the NBA draft is not the kind of misjudgment that should deprive student-athletes of the valuable opportunity to enter college or to continue in college while playing basketball," said Rice, who added that the commission considered, but did not recommend, the "baseball rule" that requires two or three years of college if prospects don't go straight to the draft out of high school.

NBA commissioner Adam Silver and NBPA executive director Michele Roberts released a joint statement Wednesday saying they will "continue to assess" the commission's suggestions on draft eligibility rules.

"We support NCAA policy and enforcement reforms that will better safeguard the well-being of players while imposing greater accountability on representatives and programs that fail to uphold the values of the game," the statement said. "We also share the commission's concern with the current state of youth basketball and echo that all stakeholders -- including the NBA, NBPA, NCAA, and USA Basketball -- have a collective responsibility to help bring about positive change."

Another change to the current process suggested by the commission would be enabling high school and college players to sign with certified agents before deciding on whether to enter the NBA draft.

The FBI investigation into college basketball last fall centered around Christian Dawkins, a "runner" working for ASM Sports, a sports agency headed by Andy Miller. Dawkins allegedly helped funnel money to prospects through assistant coaches and shoe companies. Once a player signs with an agent or accepts money from an agent, he is ineligible according to current NCAA rules.

"Players should be able to receive meaningful assessment of professional prospects earlier with assistance from certified agents," Rice said. "If NCAA rules do not allow them to receive that advice openly, they will often seek it illicitly."

Rice also called for an overhaul to the investigative and enforcement arms of the NCAA. In addition to using independent and neutral investigators, the commission recommends much harsher NCAA penalties for cheaters and rule-breakers. For Level I violations, that includes a five-year postseason ban and loss of all revenue sharing in postseason play.

Most noticeably, the commission recommends stiffer penalties for coaches that knowingly break rules -- including potential lifetime bans.

"Currently, the rewards for violating the rules far outweigh the risks," Rice said.

The commission also called out university presidents, saying administrators can't be allowed to turn a blind eye to infractions. It also recommends university presidents should be required to "certify annually that they have conducted due diligence and that their athletic programs comply with NCAA rules."

In a direct reference to the recent NCAA investigation into academic fraud at North Carolina, the commission recommended the NCAA have jurisdiction into that area. She said the loophole that all students, not just athletes, were able to benefit from the fraudulent classes should not be a legitimate defense.

The commission also addressed the grassroots basketball scene -- which Rice called an "ungoverned space" -- and apparel companies.

Currently, there are five live periods from April to July in which college coaches can go to watch prospects at events sponsored by Nike, Adidas or Under Armour or are run independently. The commission recommends the NCAA start its own regional events in July, and make them the only events that coaches can attend that month.

The commission also called for the NCAA to work closer with USA Basketball, the NBA and the NBPA to start a new youth basketball program. It's not yet clear how the governing body would pay for some of the proposals.

Adidas was at the forefront of the FBI investigation, with two Adidas officials among those arrested. According to court records, they allegedly helped funnel money to prospects in order to get them to sign with Adidas-sponsored schools. The commission calls for more financial transparency in this area.

"It is time that the money flowing from apparel companies and other third parties into non-scholastic basketball be disclosed and accounted for in order to address the corruption we see in the sport," Rice said.

The commission did not make any recommendations in the area of paying collegiate athletes or enabling them to earn money off their names or likenesses. Rice did address the issue, but acquiesced to the courts for now.

"I know this is an issue on the minds of many, and the commission thought long and hard about this," she said. "In the end, we respected the fact that that legal ramifications of NCAA action on name, image and likeness are currently before the courts. We don't believe that the NCAA can legislate in this area until the legal parameters become clearer.

"That said, most commissioners believe that the rules on name, image and likeness should be taken up as soon as the legal framework is established. It is hard for the public, and frankly for me, to understand what can be allowed within the college model and what can't be allowed without opening the door to professionalizing college basketball."

At the Final Four, Emmert said he didn't see paying players as a likely option.

"Universities and colleges have consistently said they don't want to have student-athletes become employees of a university," Emmert said. "They don't want them to be playing for compensation."

The commission, in addition to Rice and Robinson, also includes NBA Hall of Famer Grant Hill, former coaches John Thompson III and Mike Montgomery, school presidents, athletic directors and USA Basketball chairman Martin Dempsey.

It was tasked to focus on three areas: the relationship of the NCAA with apparel companies, grassroots basketball and agents; the NCAA's relationship with the NBA and the one-and-done rule; and the relationship between schools and the NCAA.

Rice presented the commission's report to the NCAA's Board of Governors and Division I Board of Directors at the association's headquarters Wednesday. She called the crisis in college basketball "first and foremost a problem of failed accountability and lax responsibility."

Said Emmert at the Final Four: "Just to be blunt about it, you don't waste Condoleezza Rice's time if you're not serious about it."

SEC commissioner Greg Sankey told ESPN's Heather Dinich that while the commission's suggestions are the "next step" in helping fix what's wrong, it's hardly the last step.

"We had this rumble that these things were going on," Sankey said Wednesday. "... There was a triggering event with the indictments and arrests in the fall. I view this as a step rather than a destination. It's an important step, a worthwhile step, but people will adapt and we will as a system likely have to adapt again."

ESPN reported in November that the group met with Silver and Roberts. Emmert has also said the commission met with agents and officials from apparel companies.

The commission's report admonished those within college sports who use the NCAA as a scapegoat for the problems in basketball, saying universities and individuals are accountable for keeping the game clean.

"When those institutions and those responsible for leading them short-circuit rules, ethics and norms in order to achieve on-court success, they alone are responsible," the commission wrote. "Too often, these individuals hide behind the NCAA when they are the ones most responsible for the degraded state of intercollegiate athletics, in general, and college basketball in particular."
 
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