College Athletics Branding - Name Image Likeness Rules

[Irish#1]

They were right all along, though. NIL was always going to be pay for play. The NCAA's enforcement group has a staff smaller than your local McDonalds because nobody wants to foot the bill for it. They couldn't even handle the case load stemming from transfer exemption requests and those people had far less resources than these NIL collectives.

This was inevitable because the money that flows into big time college football is happy to engage in a race to the bottom.

The ironic thing is it's going to cost more now than if they had just built the compliance group and gave it some teeth.

 

[Irish#1]

Boosters will likely never stop, schools already get funding to pay off a coach who's been fired. There is quite literally 0 ROI there, at least with a recruit you can get something from it.

This is just playing slots for insane wealth, people will continue to fund it and continue to lose in search of getting that generational player and maybe some sort of business benefit.

This is something I'm not sold on. They may get some return on the field, but I wonder how effective it will be to the general public.? I'm not going to buy a car from a dealer or get my insurance from an agent because he has a player doing a commercial or appearance for them.

 

[Irish#1]

F'ing SEC. Win at all costs.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Not sure that point is at odds with what I wrote. And it’s exactly the reason the member institutions are more at fault here.

They were all too happy allow for substantially increased revenues from TV contracts while capping the compensation of their labor which is why the Supreme Court shit all over them when the latest legislation was presented.

It's been awhile since I read that 1984 opinion, but interestingly enough, I believe many of the justices at that time still defended the amateurism model as being essential to collegiate football and its product. However, it was much easier to defend amateurism in 1984 when coaches were lucky to make $100k versus today when they're making $5 million plus, not to mention that player compensation hadn't changed at all in that time other than for the variance in the cost of a degree. The 1984 case was the beginning of the end of the version of college football we all know.

Yes, they said the NCAA’s existence was not an undue restraint of trade because there was a demand for amateur athletics and a central body was necessary to providing them. The upshot is that college athletics must be amateur.

FWIW, an appeals court has also struck down NCAA efforts to set limits on coach salaries as an undue restraint on trade.

ND has surely been a participant in the shifting landscape but there is no power to hold back the schools that are pushing things down this road.

 

[Irish#1]

It may take the other conferences to refuse playing the SEC. I mean, at some point, if one conference insists on having a decided monetary advantage, on top of all of their other advantages, just let them crown their own nfl lite champion..

The rest of college football can actually play by the same set of rules.

This is an excellent idea. Will never happen, but an excellent idea none the less.

 

[Irish#1]

Someone posted on twitter when interviewing a bunch of the highest rated recruits the number 1 thing that came up that they were looking for was NIL. Now what Notre Dame is trying to sell these kids is that they aren't promising money up front but if you sign here the ND brand will bring more opportunity over your 4 years then the promised guranteed some of these kids are seeking. Basically any kid whose looking for a payday up front ND is out on

Hard to sell that to a lot of them. Bird in the hand scenario.

 

[Free Manera]

I'm not even mad. Of course top recruits and transfers are going to the highest bidder. We have legal bag men now. Yeah pay for play is technically illegal but there is no one that can or will enforce that. The point of NIL is for players to make money, and that's what is happening.

The market is going to dictate when and how much players get paid. I have a feeling that people throwing a mil at a recruit don't really care if the recruit leaves. They will still give a mil to the next one, and pay a mil to the tranfer coming in too.

I don't know what it means for ND really but I know that the toothpaste is out the tube and walking it back is going to take a seismic shift in college football, probably with schools like ND breaking away to join a more collegiate-minded model.

 

[Bluto]

I'm not even mad. Of course top recruits and transfers are going to the highest bidder. We have legal bag men now. Yeah pay for play is technically illegal but there is no one that can or will enforce that. The point of NIL is for players to make money, and that's what is happening.

The market is going to dictate when and how much players get paid. I have a feeling that people throwing a mil at a recruit don't really care if the recruit leaves. They will still give a mil to the next one, and pay a mil to the tranfer coming in too.

I don't know what it means for ND really but I know that the toothpaste is out the tube and walking it back is going to take a seismic shift in college football, probably with schools like ND breaking away to join a more collegiate-minded model.

With all things being equal this season has in my opinion demonstrated that coaching matters as much as NIL/bagmen in terms of winning during a single season.

It’s also got me thinking that this transfer/NIL craziness is shuffling the deck in terms of players so often that it’s going to make sustained success at a high level ala Bama the last decade almost impossible for any program due to problems with team cohesion, retaining quality players in the 2-3 deep and overall roster management.

 

[TorontoGold]

This is something I'm not sold on. They may get some return on the field, but I wonder how effective it will be to the general public.? I'm not going to buy a car from a dealer or get my insurance from an agent because he has a player doing a commercial or appearance for them.

Isn't this just marketing 101? You're more likely to listen to the commercial if it's Bryce Young than if it's Joe Nobody.

 

[irishff1014]

Wow hit the fucking money on this one!!

 

[Free Manera]

No idea if it's legit, but a poster on 247 explained the way places are structuring NIL to not be completely blowing off the rules. He said there are two different ways it goes:

1. Appearance-based
2. Rights-based

In appearance-based setups, the money may not necessarily be up front but it is contractually guaranteed. All the player has to do is show up the Friday before every game at the team hotel or whatever, and sign some things. This has built in protection for the collective, because if the player transfers out, he won't be at the team hotel and therefore won't get paid. I assume they just tell the recruit the deal is for a million or whatever, and you get it in installments for each appearance.

The rights based model is what he says A&M does, which is the collective buys the players marketing rights up front, so there is an immediate payment to some degree. Then the collective arranges for marketing opportunities and more money. Since the collective owns the marketing rights, if the player leaves, the collective will just not book them any marketing opportunities. The legality of this method is debatable.

 

[stlnd01]

No idea if it's legit, but a poster on 247 explained the way places are structuring NIL to not be completely blowing off the rules. He said there are two different ways it goes:

1. Appearance-based
2. Rights-based

In appearance-based setups, the money may not necessarily be up front but it is contractually guaranteed. All the player has to do is show up the Friday before every game at the team hotel or whatever, and sign some things. This has built in protection for the collective, because if the player transfers out, he won't be at the team hotel and therefore won't get paid. I assume they just tell the recruit the deal is for a million or whatever, and you get it in installments for each appearance.

The rights based model is what he says A&M does, which is the collective buys the players marketing rights up front, so there is an immediate payment to some degree. Then the collective arranges for marketing opportunities and more money. Since the collective owns the marketing rights, if the player leaves, the collective will just not book them any marketing opportunities. The legality of this method is debatable.

The second sounds a lot like how Nico I.'s big deal at Tennessee was described in an Athletic story I read about it a few months back. I guess to me the question is what happens if the kid transfers? Can he sign a new rights-based deal at his new school? Or does the collective essentially have him tied to their school (at least for marketing purposes).

But also, an appearance based setup sounds like it would be completely within Notre Dame's stated comfort zone. (we'll do NIL deals with current players, just not upfront money to recruits). It's the second sort of deal, with its upfront payments and its debatable legality, that we're not doing. Those seem like the deals the big fish are signing, just not with us.

 

[Free Manera]

The second sounds a lot like how Nico I.'s big deal at Tennessee was described in an Athletic story I read about it a few months back. I guess to me the question is what happens if the kid transfers? Can he sign a new rights-based deal at his new school? Or does the collective essentially have him tied to their school (at least for marketing purposes).

But also, an appearance based setup sounds like it would be completely within Notre Dame's stated comfort zone. (we'll do NIL deals with current players, just not upfront money to recruits). It's the second sort of deal, with its upfront payments and its debatable legality, that we're not doing. Those seem like the deals the big fish are signing, just not with us.

I think the collective would try to retain the rights, dissuading the player from transferring out. Whether a court would find that enforceable is the question. It could be viewed kind of like an unreasonable non-compete clause and just tossed out.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[T Town Tommy]

Don't know if this has been posted already. Some good info on NIL.

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[Huntr]

Comment is related to Moore, specifically, but really about how recruiting works now, big picture.

 

[IrishLax]

Comment is related to Moore, specifically, but really about how recruiting works now, big picture.

This only works for Tier 1 and Tier 2 program with little-to-no transfer restrictions and large NIL war chests. Everyone else will be fighting over scraps.

 

[stlnd01]

This only works for Tier 1 and Tier 2 program with little-to-no transfer restrictions and large NIL war chests. Everyone else will be fighting over scraps.

But even for those schools it's a terrible way to develop continuity, which matters a lot for QB development. This is all so stupid.

And why would Oregon see Nix/Moore as an either/or situation, when "both" is the best answer for all involved. Nix is gone after '23, and Moore could've stepped right in to replace him with a year under his belt. Now they'll have to go shopping again. And because Nix stayed Moore is now going to go to UCLA so he can start as a true freshman? That always goes well.

 

[calvegas04]

 

[FWIrish4]

This is the only way to stop the madness and probably where the NCAA has actual power to enforce, right?

 

[Crazy Balki]

This is the only way to stop the madness and probably where the NCAA has actual power to enforce, right?

This is where I think you have to start establishing clear parameters.

The NCAA alone has no power to instill these parameters, but it's pretty clear that a huge majority of schools are sick and tired of having their best players poached by bigger programs, when they put in all the effort to develop them.

Obviously, if the dude graduated, then he should have the freedom to go wherever he wants, but combining NIL and the instant-eligibility transfer portal was a massive oversight.

 

[rikkitikki08]

He won’t name names because he doesn’t want to get blacklisted from the coaching fraternity. That’s all for show

 

[Irish#1]

Isn't this just marketing 101? You're more likely to listen to the commercial if it's Bryce Young than if it's Joe Nobody.

I don't know. We should ask Don Draper.

 

[stlnd01]

This is where I think you have to start establishing clear parameters.

The NCAA alone has no power to instill these parameters, but it's pretty clear that a huge majority of schools are sick and tired of having their best players poached by bigger programs, when they put in all the effort to develop them.

Obviously, if the dude graduated, then he should have the freedom to go wherever he wants, but combining NIL and the instant-eligibility transfer portal was a massive oversight.

Mmm hmm. And that's the best hope for reigning some of this in. The question is whether even the Power 5 is a democracy, or whether it's run by the minority of schools that have enough money to do whatever they want?

 

[Huntr]

 

[NDMatt91]

Hopefully Freeman goes to the administration and tells them that things need to change.

 

[calvegas04]

Hopefully Freeman goes to the administration and tells them that things need to change.

And he has that kind of sway with the admins?

 

[Huntr]

this dude livin in 3022, we stuck in 2022.

 

[ThePiombino]

Hopefully Freeman goes to the administration and tells them that things need to change.

He'd have better luck going directly to Mendoza.

 

[ColinKSU]

This only works for Tier 1 and Tier 2 program with little-to-no transfer restrictions and large NIL war chests. Everyone else will be fighting over scraps.

So Notre Dame?