Clemson Postgame...

[Irish Insanity]

I will say I was impressed with the fight we had down the stretch. We haven't seen that in least a while. Lead by a RS freshman, 2 game starter.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Clemson Postgame...

No doubt about it, the sting is still there 24 hours later. This one hurt in ways few games do.

I ALMOST wish Clemson just blew the doors off ND, and we could go back to beating the "we weren't as good as we thought" drum.

That's simply not the case, this team is very, very good IMO. To completely fall flat on your face for the first half in a hostile environment with horrible weather, and still have a chance at the end is remarkable.

I guess now we just have to wonder "what if?" and that absolutely sucks.

 

[DCIrish]

YOU are a Fuckn Troll!Period.

haha please tell me why I'm a troll

 

[Luckylucci]

It's not perfect, no. But TFL is a good indication of the Defensive Line getting good penetration. And penetration is pressure in college football. So, while it's not perfect, it is hardly "very flawed".

It can be literally two completely different instances so no, it doesn't work that way. Much better to judge QB hurries if you want to go that route.

 

[DCIrish]

Watson completed half of his passes for less than 100 yards. And prior to Clemson Prosise was piling up yards better than any ND running back ever. Soooooo lolwut?

Clemson was content to play conservative because of the weather and the fact that they were in control from the start of the game. Watson didn't have to do much.

Prosise has been great, but ND had not played a good defense before Clemson. I was excited to see how the OL would do against a good defense in a game where they needed to run the ball and they failed miserably.

 

[kmoose]

It can be literally two completely different instances so no, it doesn't work that way. Much better to judge QB hurries if you want to go that route.

That's great except for one thing............ the NCAA doesn't track QB hurries. They track TFLs and Sacks

 

[IrishLax]

They've only lost one game at this point, but it's clear this is not a playoff caliber team.

Below average pass rush
Secondary is terrible
Running game can easily be taken away if defenses load the box

This is such a joke. We're highly ranked in pass defense and held Watson to under 100 yards passing on around 4 yards per attempt.

 

[Rhode Irish]

This is such a joke. We're highly ranked in pass defense and held Watson to under 100 yards passing on around 4 yards per attempt.

This is a place for people to throw tantrums and pout, not busy themselves with facts and reason. C'mon, man. I know you know this!

 

[Irish#1]

My two cents worth.

1. We were not ready for the start.
2. Team showed great heart fighting until the end.
3. TO's cost us the game, but the dropped passes didn't help.
4. Why we didn't throw earlier to open up the run game is puzzling as it worked in the second half.
5. O line got embarrassed.
6. Why we went for two earlier is puzzling. There was plenty of time left in the game.
7. I don't have a problem running for the two point conversion, but I didn't like that call.
8. Defense played great after the first two possessions.
9. It's one loss. Time for Navy.

 

[gkIrish]

This is such a joke. We're highly ranked in pass defense and held Watson to under 100 yards passing on around 4 yards per attempt.

The wide receivers were open all game. I mean they had a flat out drop on a 50 yard bomb that should have been a touchdown.

They specifically avoided throwing deep because of the rain. Like I said, they were open the whole time but I think they were worried about underthrows in the weather (like the Luke INT)

 

[IrishLax]

The wide receivers were open all game. I mean they had a flat out drop on a 50 yard bomb that should have been a touchdown.

They specifically avoided throwing deep because of the rain. Like I said, they were open the whole time but I think they were worried about underthrows in the weather (like the Luke INT)

So what's the excuse for the 10 incompletions that were short, easy passes then? Dude threw 50% at a TERRIBLE YPA clip even though they had very few drops... if you go back and chart his drop backs, the coverage was flat out great after the first two series.

Their wide receivers were not "open all game"... held a dude to freaking 50% passing and people are complaining about coverage. NO ONE can run with receivers as good as theirs with a QB As good as Watson and have 100% cover rate. Our pass defense won. Their guys were covered well, and saying otherwise is just ludicrous.

 

[Legacy]

Kizer needs work on his mechanics. IMO he was opening his hips too much, then had to rely on his arm strength without being able to step into his throw. Not sure if this affected his release point but even if he was able to compensate some, too often the effect was the ball would sail on him. This was on his short and medium throws. Just the observation of a non-expert. Anyone else?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Kiser needs work on his mechanics. IMO he was opening his hips too much, then had to relieve on his arm strength without being able to step into his throw. Not sure if this affected his release point but even if he was able to compensate some, too often the effect was the ball would sail on him. This was on his short and medium throws. Just the observation of a non-expert. Anyone else?

Kizer*


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[IrishLax]

Kiser needs work on his mechanics. IMO he was opening his hips too much, then had to relieve on his arm strength without being able to step into his throw. Not sure if this affected his release point but even if he was able to compensate some, too often the effect was the ball would sail on him. This was on his short and medium throws. Just the observation of a non-expert. Anyone else?

Yup. Threw off his back foot a lot, mechanics are still a bit erratic.

But I'll tell you what... he showed a lot of poise and some big balls in the 4th quarter. I was incredibly impressed by how much of a "gamer" he was. He could be great with more experience and refinement.

 

[gkIrish]

So what's the excuse for the 10 incompletions that were short, easy passes then? Dude threw 50% at a TERRIBLE YPA clip even though they had very few drops... if you go back and chart his drop backs, the coverage was flat out great after the first two series.

Their wide receivers were not "open all game"... held a dude to freaking 50% passing and people are complaining about coverage. NO ONE can run with receivers as good as theirs with a QB As good as Watson and have 100% cover rate. Our pass defense won. Their guys were covered well, and saying otherwise is just ludicrous.

If they were short "easy" passes how does that tell you anything one way or the other about the pass coverage? Watson didn't throw well. He threw the ball out of bounds a couple of times and just missed guys in general. He had no chance to get into any sort of rhythm because they were gashing us with the run in the first half.

Says absolutely nothing about how well our corners and safeties were covering their guys. They weren't doing a good job. Kessler or some other QB having a better night would have gashed us with those same receivers. We weren't generating any pass rush either. USC will throw at will like last year.

 

[ACamp1900]

So how much does GT beat Clemson by next week??

 

[Sherm Sticky]

So how much does GT beat Clemson by next week??

17


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[Luckylucci]

I have to say. The after two series part. Means we gave up 2 touchdowns early. Specifically caused by the poor secondary play. So yea, they picked it up but they also put us in the whole terribly.

 

[Luckylucci]

Our offense can be stale at times, I don't get this D being a wash the rest of it. You can't give up 14pts like it's easy to start a game and expect you're going to win.

 

[IrishLax]

I have to say. The after two series part. Means we gave up 2 touchdowns early. Specifically caused by the poor secondary play. So yea, they picked it up but they also put us in the whole terribly.

First drive starts with a 32 yard return to the 36. So special teams gifts them 10+ yards on bad kick coverage. Then Watson rips off a career long 38 yard run thanks to a bad job by the DL/LBs (though Luke or Redfield could've potentially made a play to minimize the game... the issue is no LBs in the middle of the field. Joe Schmidt flashes to the middle of the field and misses Watson by about two full steps with his angle of pursuit). So we're 74 yards down the field on a return and a single play without the secondary even being a factor. The secondary gives up 15 yards through the air including the TD. In general, this scripted drive is just great and executed very well. Both completed passes are easy short throws where the offense runs a screen/rub to get their receiver open. Just well done.

The second drive starts at the ND 40 thanks to a shanked punt... 37 of the remaining 40 yards come through the air. The first pass is very decent coverage but a better throw and a better catch, KVR could've done a better job of getting his head around to play the ball. Then you have a well-run slant + a bad tackle. We were playing soft coverage, and that is the play that beats soft coverage.

So I don't really buy that it was "specifically caused by bad secondary play." Special teams gifted about as many yards as passing, and the biggest play was a run. When the worst play the secondary gives up is a 20 yard contested pass that's really not that bad.

 

[mtnd15]

I am a little baffled that the defense is taking heat for holding a Clemson team with legitimate weapons to 24 while being put in horrible spots the entire game due to turnovers and special teams failures. Could they have been better? Sure. Were they the goat? Not in my eyes.

 

[Blazers46]

Being on the road against Clemson in that stadium is tough. Add the fact it was raining all week did not help.

I told my wife before the game started that I would not be surprised of ND comes out flat just because of the overall experience.

I think the conditions gave Clemson the ultimate home field advantage. Sure they had to both show up and play in those conditions but Clemson is comfortable at home while ND is probably spending all their time in the hotel. I am sure Clemson had unlimited access to their indoor practice facility and other perks of being at home.

I think if this game is played in fair conditions ND wins easily. ND left a lot of yards on the feild with drops and turnovers. I just think the homefeild advantage in this game was HUGE.

 

[Legacy]

Clemson's defense gave up more big plays

Clemson's defense gave up more big plays

than ours by far.

Coming into the game, their defense ranked fourth nationally giving up only 26 plays for > 10 yards - in three games

Of those 26, eight were for 10+ yds, nine were for 20+, 4 for 30+, 3 for 40+ and 2 for 50+. That's 8.67 plays per game > 10 yds.

Notre Dame's offense had 16 plays of 10+ yards. Twelve of those 16 were for 20+yards. (7 for 20+, 3 for 30+, 1 for 40+, and 1 for 50+.

Notre Dame's defense gave up half that amount - 8 plays of > 10 yards. (Two for 10+, 4 for 20+ and 2 for 30+ yards.)

National rankings over the first game in October for Opponents big plays given up (> 10 yds) are Clemson 84th, Notre Dame 13th.

Imagine if some of the passes were more accurate and we had half as many - or less -turnovers. I'm not ready to throw the most blame on the secondary.

 

[NDPhilly]

I feel like a more experienced QB would have checked out of run against those 8 man boxes more into quick passes. Kizer played well for a RS Freshman but thats where I think Zaire could have helped a lot. Zaire also would have been a bigger threat on the ground then Kizer

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

What baffles me is these analysts thinking Clemson is a legit National Title contender now because they beat us. Clemson looked like shit and we played the worst game i've seen us play in a long time. We beat ourselves. This should have been a 20 point ND victory, but oh well.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

(Sorry for the double post, I didn't mean to put this in the game day thread)

Needed some time to digest this loss. It still stings. A lot of my thoughts have been discussed, but here they are anyways:

-You can't spot a good team 14 points to start a game. See Oklahoma 2013. The defense looked completely out of sync to start the game. Very strange considering they had started every previous game forcing a 3-and-Out.

-When Clemson stacks the box and ND's OL can't get a push, it's time start throwing to get them to back off. Look at CJ's splits in the first half. It's beyond horrific. Yet series after series they insisted on forcing the run. All it did was put Kizer in a tough spot...

-Kizer played about as good you could've hoped given the circumstances. His WRs let him down often. The drops were killer. Corey Robinson needs to be benched until he starts showing more consistency and dependability. Idk what happened, but he was clutch at times last year, and now it's damn near pointless to have him in the game.

-ND had SIX fumbles (lost three) and an interception. Clemson had one, I think, and recovered it. They did have one interception. (Per OFD podcast...I didn't track these stats). It's not bad luck, it's lack of focus.

-Fumble aside, I'm so glad they finally made the switch on kickoff returns. I've been saying Amir needs to be taken out of that role for two seasons now. It finally happened. I'm looking forward to what Sanders brings. That fumble was brutal, but overall, this is a great move.

-Defense could've been better, but they could've been worse as well. Tackling, especially in the backfield or along the LOS needs to improve. Clemson had four scoring drives and two of those were a direct result of a short field by the hands of ND's special teams (poor punt, fumbled kickoff). Once they settled in after the first half of the first quarter, they played well enough to win. They got stops when they needed to down the stretch. The offense just struggled mightily until the fourth. That's unfortunate.

-The 2-point conversion(s). Conversion #1: The chart says go for it in the fourth. But it was literally 40 seconds into the quarter. A little common sense needs to be applied here. It was wrong to go for it, imo. BUT it's moot because the play worked, Robinson just didn't execute it (see earlier rant). Conversion #2: At first I questioned the play call. But after re-watching it, the OL just got blown up too quickly. Elmer and Martin are extremely underwhelming when up against decent competition. The hole was there, Kizer went for it, but it closed too quickly. End of game.

Look, **** happens. This loss was a joint effort (coaches and players)....and they still almost won. What I'm most pissed about is that it took Clemson playing basically a flawless game and ND playing their worst game of the season for this outcome to happen...and it did. That's tough to swallow. I loved the fight in our guys. But there are no moral victories for me.

This team needs to regroup and make a statement over the next two games. (Is it unsettling to anyone else that this is similar to last year in that there was a gigantic let down in the season's top game with Navy to follow? I hope they change the script this year.)

 

[RDU Irish]

After watching this game I can't help but think we win 8/10 if we lined up ten weeks in a row. I thought the weather would work to our advantage, boy was I wrong.

- Kizer's passes seemed to be sailing high quite a bit, which is understandable with a wet ball and conditions. Overall, very impressed with his ability to chuck the rock in those conditions. Finding open receivers was a bigger challenge but I give him a lot of slack for being a young starter in a tough environment.

- Hot and high contributed to a few of the drops but our guys should have come up with half of those. Its not like they came up with any "hands" catches to balance against the misses. Everything caught was against the body and you cannot count on that every freaking throw!

- Wasn't the fumbled KR on Amir and not CJ? The announcers were saying CJ but I swear it was #3. Either way, Amir needs to take a seat to CJ, by far superior returner and one of the earlier ones by Amir I was sure CJ would have gotten at least 20 more yards I not a score out of it.

-Luke's interception was our team's best catch of the night.

- Our inability to force turnovers is becoming a serious concern. The INT was good but zero fumbles forced in a torrential downpour is garbage.

- Jaylon looked like he expected a slicker playing surface, very tentative initially. Once he got used to it he played well.

- Knock the first six minutes off of each half and we have a better representation of our team.

All in, the better team lost and it isn't even close in my book. USC will define our season, Stanford does not worry me as much.

 

[RDU Irish]

Coaching - By and large the players were put in a position to win but they did not execute. I do not blame the coaches.

 

[connor_in]

What baffles me is these analysts thinking Clemson is a legit National Title contender now because they beat us. Clemson looked like shit and we played the worst game i've seen us play in a long time. We beat ourselves. This should have been a 20 point ND victory, but oh well.

Someone posted in one of the threads (think it was the poll thread) about an analyst basically saying this just shows how overinflated ND really was when discussing us, but when discussing Clemson, it referred to us like we were legit and thus a great win for them...things that make you hmmmmm

 

[NDohio]

I haven't read through anything yet so this may all be repeat stuff. I had to head out of Clemson(Greenville) early Sunday AM and get home to build dams around my house. Been an interesting weekend.

Offense

Completely surprised we didn't have more success running the ball. They definitely loaded the box, but we weren't getting anybody blocked on the running plays. Clemson's defenders were very quick off the ball and that seemed to give our O-Line fits.

Dropped passes - my goodness that was frustrating. Fuller had so much room to run on that third down drop. That was a real killer.

Kizer - his poise was incredible. There were several occasions that the pocket completely collapsed around him and he showed no panic at all. Also, when the play clock is ticking down, he handles that better than any of our QB's have in the BK era. He missed some throws and reads here and there, but he was fun to watch and he played well enough to win the game. His receivers let him down.

I loved the routes the WR's were running in the second half and Kizer throws a nice ball over the middle(except one). It's nice to have a QB that uses the middle of the field.

Defense

That was my first time seeing Jaylon live. WOW. What an amazing football player.

KVR - I don't get it. How can you go from being so good to mediocre at best? D Watson missed some opportunities when KVR was beaten.

Overall the defense played pretty well. The three TD's were all on short fields. Beyond those three series, Clemson didn't do much. They made some huge stops in the 4th Qtr to give the O the opportunities to tie/win the game. Can't blame this loss on them.

Special Teams

Ugly. The Clemson fans that were with me commented several times about how awful their own special teams are and how we made them look good. Special teams lost this game.