Chicago Bears address

[GBdomer]

The thought of a LB corp of McPhee, Freeman, Trevathan and Houston is crazy. That has the makings of an elite unit.

I'd like for the Bears to take the best defensive player available. Ideally, 1) Shaq Lawson, 2) A'Shawn Robinson, 3) DeForest Buckner. However, if Stanley or Tunsil falls to us (unlikely), we have to lock them up. Either have the makings of great LT's. Hope that happens, because we can afford to wait until the 2nd to draft a DE/DT. It's a DEEP draft for defensive linemen this year. Still unsure about our secondary though. Amos looked promising, Porter should hold down the fort, Fuller didn't look...atrocious. We still need another corner and depth at Safety, but I'd rather work from the front first.

I like your thinking, hopefully VH3 falls to us.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I would still like them to grab Jaylon in the top of the 2nd. With the LB core in place, we have the luxury of letting him rehab for the first year.

Agreed. High risk, but possibly a huge reward.

 

[RDU Irish]

I don't think they will have the patience to pick up Jaylon. They just lost a first rounder for a full season and don't have the self consciousness to see they are rebuilding. Probably think they are a few players away and, as pointed out, LB is an area of strength.

That said - I think any team passing him up after about 20 overall is making a shortsighted mistake - regardless of how good their linebackers currently are. By the time you hit second round you are bordering on insanity.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I don't think they will have the patience to pick up Jaylon. They just lost a first rounder for a full season and don't have the self consciousness to see they are rebuilding. Probably think they are a few players away and, as pointed out, LB is an area of strength.

That said - I think any team passing him up after about 20 overall is making a shortsighted mistake - regardless of how good their linebackers currently are. By the time you hit second round you are bordering on insanity.

I actually think they believe they're in full on rebuilding mode. That's why they unloaded guys like Jared Allen last year. Now, it's the NFL, and it's very possible that you are only a few players away. That's the nature of the league. But I think this leadership is different.

 

[RDU Irish]

I actually think they believe they're in full on rebuilding mode. That's why they unloaded guys like Jared Allen last year. Now, it's the NFL, and it's very possible that you are only a few players away. That's the nature of the league. But I think this leadership is different.

cough...Jay Cutler....cough

 

[IrishJayhawk]

cough...Jay Cutler....cough

The Super Bowl champs had a far worse QB than Cutler.

 

[RDU Irish]

The Super Bowl champs had a far worse QB than Cutler.

Yep Peyton sucks. Cutler does not know how to NOT f-up. You can get by on a fantastic defense and mediocre QB - if the QB limits mistakes. Cutler is a bed crapper.

However, step one in your scenario is to put a top 5 defense together. #20 in total points last year - a full touchdown worse than the Top 3 of Seattle, Denver and KC and five points from last place New Orleans. Closer to the bottom than the top. #25 in yards per play. #14 in total yards. Turnover margin -4, ten more than the top 9 teams.

We have a long ways to go and Cutler's contract will get in the way of said rebuilding. If management is truly honed in on the future, I cannot imagine how keeping Cutler is compatible with that.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bears' addition of Akiem Hicks helps solidify D-line; 3 sacks, 4 hits, 18 hurries in 2015: <a href="https://t.co/EyRcVIgWaS">https://t.co/EyRcVIgWaS</a> <a href="https://t.co/qzGE2tllDm">pic.twitter.com/qzGE2tllDm</a></p>— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF/status/709371072731217921">March 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Yep Peyton sucks. Cutler does not know how to NOT f-up. You can get by on a fantastic defense and mediocre QB - if the QB limits mistakes. Cutler is a bed crapper.

However, step one in your scenario is to put a top 5 defense together. #20 in total points last year - a full touchdown worse than the Top 3 of Seattle, Denver and KC and five points from last place New Orleans. Closer to the bottom than the top. #25 in yards per play. #14 in total yards. Turnover margin -4, ten more than the top 9 teams.

We have a long ways to go and Cutler's contract will get in the way of said rebuilding. If management is truly honed in on the future, I cannot imagine how keeping Cutler is compatible with that.

I get all that. But with the QB contracts being tossed around right now, Cutler's deal is actually below market value.

 

[pumpdog20]

As much as I love Jaylon, I don't want the Bears taking him unless he somehow dropped to round 4 or later. No way would I use a second round pick after what was discussed at the Combine.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The thought of a LB corp of McPhee, Freeman, Trevathan and Houston is crazy. That has the makings of an elite unit.

I'd like for the Bears to take the best defensive player available. Ideally, 1) Shaq Lawson, 2) A'Shawn Robinson, 3) DeForest Buckner. However, if Stanley or Tunsil falls to us (unlikely), we have to lock them up. Either have the makings of great LT's. Hope that happens, because we can afford to wait until the 2nd to draft a DE/DT. It's a DEEP draft for defensive linemen this year. Still unsure about our secondary though. Amos looked promising, Porter should hold down the fort, Fuller didn't look...atrocious. We still need another corner and depth at Safety, but I'd rather work from the front first.

You must not have watched the second half of the season. Fuller played very very well. He needs to carry that confidence into next season.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

As much as I love Jaylon, I don't want the Bears taking him unless he somehow dropped to round 4 or later. No way would I use a second round pick after what was discussed at the Combine.

You're probably right, but it's tantalizing.

 

[zelezo vlk]

We really shouldn't throw out any absolutes or projections until the reports from his combine checkup in about 4 weeks come out. He has a lot of rehab left and the story could change very quickly in either direction.

 

[RDU Irish]

I get all that. But with the QB contracts being tossed around right now, Cutler's deal is actually below market value.

That is a fair point. Good time to be a mediocre NFL QB.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

That is a fair point. Good time to be a mediocre NFL QB.

Seriously.

 

[woolybug25]

As much as I love Jaylon, I don't want the Bears taking him unless he somehow dropped to round 4 or later. No way would I use a second round pick after what was discussed at the Combine.

Elaborate for me. If the reason is depth at the position, then the injury is irrelevant.

How I see it, you have two scenarios:

- You don't think he'll be able to rehab to his former talent level. = Pass regardless

- You think he will get back, but he will need a season off, then another to adapt to the NFL, then you have a potential superstar. = Great grab in round two. As three seasons from now, you will inevitably have attrition from the current LB corp.

Nobody thinks they have a potential superstar and waits until the 4th round to get them. Sure, superstars get drafted all through the draft, but "sure-fire" talent gets grabbed. Pretty much every player at that point has some flaw in their game that is downgrading them. They are all projects at that point, Jaylon isn't a project, he's just a health risk. Those are two different things.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Elaborate for me. If the reason is depth at the position, then the injury is irrelevant.

How I see it, you have two scenarios:

- You don't think he'll be able to rehab to his former talent level. = Pass regardless

- You think he will get back, but he will need a season off, then another to adapt to the NFL, then you have a potential superstar. = Great grab in round two. As three seasons from now, you will inevitably have attrition from the current LB corp.

Nobody thinks they have a potential superstar and waits until the 4th round to get them. Sure, superstars get drafted all through the draft, but "sure-fire" talent gets grabbed. Pretty much every player at that point has some flaw in their game that is downgrading them. They are all projects at that point, Jaylon isn't a project, he's just a health risk. Those are two different things.

As I understand, there was talk of nerve damage, which may mean that he'll never get back to where he was (or even close). It's possible, but less likely with that injury. As such, a 2nd round pick is not necessarily worth the gamble. 4th round or lower might be. I think that's a fair opinion to have.

 

[woolybug25]

As I understand, there was talk of nerve damage, which may mean that he'll never get back to where he was (or even close). It's possible, but less likely with that injury. As such, a 2nd round pick is not necessarily worth the gamble. 4th round or lower might be. I think that's a fair opinion to have.

I get that. What i'm saying is that if you don't want him until the fourth, then you don't want him period. There will be teams that will take a chance on an impact player before then. Marcus Lattimore, who had far bigger injury history than Jaylon, was picked in the 4th. He had multiple knee injuries (one of which was completely devastating) and RB's are a dime a dozen in the league.

ANY player at Rd 4 is a risk, you don't get elite production, accolades, athletic skill, etc on top of that in Rd 4. That's not how it works. How I see it, a team takes a chance or they don't.

 

[pumpdog20]

Elaborate for me. If the reason is depth at the position, then the injury is irrelevant.

How I see it, you have two scenarios:

- You don't think he'll be able to rehab to his former talent level. = Pass regardless

- You think he will get back, but he will need a season off, then another to adapt to the NFL, then you have a potential superstar. = Great grab in round two. As three seasons from now, you will inevitably have attrition from the current LB corp.

Nobody thinks they have a potential superstar and waits until the 4th round to get them. Sure, superstars get drafted all through the draft, but "sure-fire" talent gets grabbed. Pretty much every player at that point has some flaw in their game that is downgrading them. They are all projects at that point, Jaylon isn't a project, he's just a health risk. Those are two different things.

Then I'm in this boat after the talk of possible nerve damage. No, I don't know for sure, which is why I'd be comfortable using a 4th or later. If he's gone before then, and ends up being good to go in a year, well that's a risk I'm willing to take. I wish nothing but the best for him.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Chicago Bears address

Take the best available player, regardless of position. This of course excludes QB, but that's really it IMO.

There is literally one "cornerstone of a franchise" type player on the entire roster right now in Kyle Long.

A few more players could be in that category, but have either shit the bed or had injury problems.

No more excuses Bears. Stop being cute, and doing stupid shit like taking a guy who played in the WAC and had a history of concussions tackling weaklings just.........because.

ONE MORE THING:

What does it say about the state of this franchise when the current platoon of LB is considered "strong" by its fans

 

[zelezo vlk]

Take the best available player, regardless of position. This of course excludes QB, but that's really it IMO.

There is literally one "cornerstone of a franchise" type player on the entire roster right now in Kyle Long.

A few more players could be in that category, but have either shit the bed or had injury problems.

No more excuses Bears. Stop being cute, and doing stupid shit like taking a guy who played in the WAC and had a history of concussions tackling weaklings just.........because.

ONE MORE THING:

What does it say about the state of this franchise when the current platoon of LB is considered "strong" by its fans

Trevathan and Freeman are considered some of the best ILBs in the game. McPhee was a good pass rusher last year; he just couldn't stay on the field. Even Houston started to look like a real player.

Make no mistake, it's not the 2012 Niners LB corps, but Trevathan and Freeman can give the Bears better linebacker play than anybody else since about 2010.

 

[BobbyMac]

ONE MORE THING:

What does it say about the state of this franchise when the current platoon of LB is considered "strong" by its fans

It says the fans you are talking about have severe memory problems or are about 10 years old.

As a tandem, Urlacher and Briggs from around what, '04-'11 are up there with any that played the game for that long.

As a group, Singletary, Marshall and Wilson from '84-'87 were the most devastating the game has ever seen and with the rule changes, will ever see.

Lastly, if you're not old enough ask your parents or grandparents about the 1965 roster that included Bill George, Joe Fortunato and Dick Butkus.

 

[blueNDgold44]

It says the fans you are talking about have severe memory problems or are about 10 years old.

As a tandem, Urlacher and Briggs from around what, '04-'11 are up there with any that played the game for that long.

As a group, Singletary, Marshall and Wilson from '84-'87 were the most devastating the game has ever seen and with the rule changes, will ever see.

Lastly, if you're not old enough ask your parents or grandparents about the 1965 roster that included Bill George, Joe Fortunato and Dick Butkus.

I'm failing to see how any of this is related to the current Bears LBers. Obviously they don't compare to the all time great Bears LB corps but compared to recent years it's a massive upgrade. Trevathan and Freeman graded out as top 5 ILBs by PFF last season and McPhee can cause some hell on the outside if he can stay healthy.

While it is yet to be seen how well they all play together it is inevitably going to be better than Shea McClellin and the 5 UDFAs the Bears trotted out at ILB last season.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm failing to see how any of this is related to the current Bears LBers. Obviously they don't compare to the all time great Bears LB corps

Which is it? Are you "failing to see how" my comparison of the current "strong" LB corp to what Bears' fans have been spoiled by over the decades or is your position "obviously they don't compare to the all time great Bears LB corps"?

I answered Steelhead's question in the context that I believe he asked it in... from a historical perspective, not what constitutes a "good" corp in the league today.

I may have misinterpreted what he asked but regardless, I think my full response stands on its own.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Chicago Bears address

Which is it? Are you "failing to see how" my comparison of the current "strong" LB corp to what Bears' fans have been spoiled by over the decades or is your position "obviously they don't compare to the all time great Bears LB corps"?

I answered Steelhead's question in the context that I believe he asked it in... from a historical perspective, not what constitutes a "good" corp in the league today.

I may have misinterpreted what he asked but regardless, I think my full response stands on its own.

I'd say you interpreted my question perfectly.

I'm not arguing we aren't going to see a marked improvement at LB this year, but something definitely was lost along the way if there is more than very cautious optimism for these guys IMO. I personally don't see any of the current LBs blowing what's left of my hair back, but definitely want to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[blueNDgold44]

Well in that case I misinterpreted what he was saying. While the current LBers aren't world beaters they are definitely a step in the right direction of the team's rebuild.

 

[woolybug25]

I'd say you interpreted my question perfectly.

I'm not arguing we aren't going to see a marked improvement at LB this year, but something definitely was lost along the way if there is more than very cautious optimism for these guys IMO. I personally don't see any of the current LBs blowing what's left of my hair back, but definitely want to be pleasantly surprised.

Trevathan doesn't do that for you? The dude had 109 tackles and two picks on the best defense in the league last year. You must have pretty high standards if anything close to that doesn't blow your hair back.

 

[blueNDgold44]

Trevathan doesn't do that for you? The dude had 109 tackles and two picks on the best defense in the league last year. You must have pretty high standards if anything close to that doesn't blow your hair back.

Freeman had 112 tackles in 13 games.

For reference, Christian Jones and Shea McClellin combined for 112.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Trevathan doesn't do that for you? The dude had 109 tackles and two picks on the best defense in the league last year. You must have pretty high standards if anything close to that doesn't blow your hair back.

I understand what you're saying, BUT, we've seen too many sidekicks over the years on great teams jump ship to be "the guy" somewhere else, and realize they don't have what it takes, at the expense of the team that overpaid for them.

Since we are talking about the Bears, I feel 100% entitled to be a pessimistic, dismissive brat.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I understand what you're saying, BUT, we've seen too many sidekicks over the years on great teams jump ship to be "the guy" somewhere else, and realize they don't have what it takes, at the expense of the team that overpaid for them.

Since we are talking about the Bears, I feel 100% entitled to be a pessimistic, dismissive brat.

Trevathan is not a sidekick.

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