BVG Fired

[rocket66]

Needs to take a hike.


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[Bogtrotter07]

Well for what is was worth, OC of other teams with a LOT less talent do not seem to have a problem dissecting and rolling over that "too complicated" defense of BVG.

ND has the talent. How about shelving the ego and the defense that clearly doesnt work and going with one that does?

Or losing to teams like Northwestern is okay then?

Your first presumption is that all talent is the same. And your second is that talent is enough.

I don't know what I would do if I had MRedfield (talent isn't enough, clearly!) or KRussell on my team, (a talented corner that couldn't grasp cover 1 to save his life. So much so that I am wondering if he has the skill set to perform in a cover 1 scheme, or if his skill set just makes him 'great' for cover 2.

And the defense BVG uses works at every level. Period. Did you see either of the defenses this past weekend, particularly Denver's?

I will agree that BVG pushed it too far, without enough players capable of executing it. But that happened in Diaco's first year as well. Why one year for Diaco, and two for BVG?

Diaco had more developed talent, and more adaptable talent.

And the chances of them not simplifying some aspects of the defense this year are about zero.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Your first presumption is that all talent is the same. And your second is that talent is enough.

I don't know what I would do if I had MRedfield (talent isn't enough, clearly!) or KRussell on my team, (a talented corner that couldn't grasp cover 1 to save his life. So much so that I am wondering if he has the skill set to perform in a cover 1 scheme, or if his skill set just makes him 'great' for cover 2.

And the defense BVG uses works at every level. Period. Did you see either of the defenses this past weekend, particularly Denver's?

I will agree that BVG pushed it too far, without enough players capable of executing it. But that happened in Diaco's first year as well. Why one year for Diaco, and two for BVG?

Diaco had more developed talent, and more adaptable talent.

And the chances of them not simplifying some aspects of the defense this year are about zero.

I hear you. Im just so flippin tired of watching teams like Northwestern and Arizona State run up and down the field with 2 and 3 star players while ND's defense looks like a JV squad. I mean, if other DCs can take lesser players and make them roughnecks, why dont we get one of those DCs then instead of what we have that cant seem to make it work with elite, top draft players on the roster?

 

[IrishLion]

And the chances of them not simplifying some aspects of the defense this year are about zero.

Boom, there's the key.

I think BK is too good as a GM to not address this with BVG after another offseason of study. I'd bet the house that BK is going to tell BVG some variation of "let the athletes play dammit."

Besides, the defense literally NEEDS to be simplified, according to BK/BVG's beliefs. They had Joe in there because he got everybody lined up. They don't have Joe anymore. So, they either simplify the defense so someone else can learn to make the calls, or they press on with a too-complicated scheme just because.

And I don't see BK as a "just because" guy.

 

[gkIrish]

Boom, there's the key.

I think BK is too good as a GM to not address this with BVG after another offseason of study. I'd bet the house that BK is going to tell BVG some variation of "let the athletes play dammit."

Besides, the defense literally NEEDS to be simplified, according to BK/BVG's beliefs. They had Joe in there because he got everybody lined up. They don't have Joe anymore. So, they either simplify the defense so someone else can learn to make the calls, or they press on with a too-complicated scheme just because.

And I don't see BK as a "just because" guy.

It needed to be simplified this year and it wasn't. I don't know that it's a given it will be simplified next year.

 

[IrishLion]

It needed to be simplified this year and it wasn't. I don't know that it's a given it will be simplified next year.

I agree that it needed to be simplified this year. It's a problem that it wasn't.

But I have faith that it will be fixed, because BK has shown that he will address his and his staffs' mistakes year-to-year.

The only issue I see potentially popping up is that BVG assures BK that they've got guys that can run the defense as-is, and then the defense struggles again. That wouldn't be a great look for BK for not taking charge and forcing a change, and would hopefully spell the end for BVG.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I hear you. Im just so flippin tired of watching teams like Northwestern and Arizona State run up and down the field with 2 and 3 star players while ND's defense looks like a JV squad. I mean, if other DCs can take lesser players and make them roughnecks, why dont we get one of those DCs then instead of what we have that cant seem to make it work with elite, top draft players on the roster?

And I hear you! I feel the same way! Culture is changing, and players are learning, but there are still shortcomings.

One of the best examples I can pull, is in BVG's first year, the defensive linemen were still coming off the ball like they were 3-4 two-gappers. Go back and look. Last year with a new defensive line coach, not only were they firing off the ball, they were usually assignment correct (Tillery being the biggest exception, [freshman growing pains]!) Also, Keith Gilmore had more mean infused in his linemen that ever (in recent years). They were using their hands better, and took a light year jump in the sophistication of their rush, and jamming of offensive linemen.

What is needed is this kind of development with both linebackers and defensive backs, don't you agree?

Boom, there's the key.

I think BK is too good as a GM to not address this with BVG after another offseason of study. I'd bet the house that BK is going to tell BVG some variation of "let the athletes play dammit."

Besides, the defense literally NEEDS to be simplified, according to BK/BVG's beliefs. They had Joe in there because he got everybody lined up. They don't have Joe anymore. So, they either simplify the defense so someone else can learn to make the calls, or they press on with a too-complicated scheme just because.

And I don't see BK as a "just because" guy.

I think Brian Kelly is a good General Manager. But, I think there is a lot behind the scenes at ND. I think ND has a uber-GM in the guise of Jack Swarbrick.

I think Jack is really the guy who orchestrated the success of this latest group of high-achievers on the coaching staff.

And I think Jack is the guy that had profound influence of Brian Kelly, and in fact improved him as a D1 coach. Kelly has been very honest over the last year or so about how much different coaching at a large school was, versus a small school, and that he needed to make changes, (among which was stopping the micro-management.)

In his most recent press conferences that he addressed this general topic, he made it clear that he now relies on that early experience to evaluate the performance of those he has delegated to do a specific job, (as in one he has done before, but does not explicitly now.)

Someone helped Kelly develop this, which I think bodes well for the Irish. And with all he has learned from Belichick, and others, I don't think it had much to do with administration in the college game. It is interesting however, that as his interest in NFL coaching waned, his discrimination and development in the college game took a positive step forward!

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Brian VanGorder scouting report on <a href="https://twitter.com/MBVG4">@MBVG4</a>: "If they pressure him, he falls apart."</p>— Tyler James (@TJamesNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/TJamesNDI/status/720262153207287809">April 13, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Bogtrotter07]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Brian VanGorder scouting report on <a href="https://twitter.com/MBVG4">@MBVG4</a>: "If they pressure him, he falls apart."</p>— Tyler James (@TJamesNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/TJamesNDI/status/720262153207287809">April 13, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

WTF?

 

[koonja]

247 QU to Tranquill: Has BVG simplified anything this year?

"He definitely hasn't changed a thing," said Tranquill. "If anything, he has added some things. Just with our knowledge of the game, it continues to grow. Being in his system for two years now, he just keeps putting more on our plate and he challenges us. I've grown a lot as a football player under him and I really appreciate that from him."

Talk to you guys in 2017.

 

[ulukinatme]

247 QU to Tranquill: Has BVG simplified anything this year?

"He definitely hasn't changed a thing," said Tranquill. "If anything, he has added some things. Just with our knowledge of the game, it continues to grow. Being in his system for two years now, he just keeps putting more on our plate and he challenges us. I've grown a lot as a football player under him and I really appreciate that from him."

Talk to you guys in 2017.

ALL the DL back in coverage! ALL the DBs pass rush! LBs doing interpretive dance!

 

[Cali_domer]

247 QU to Tranquill: Has BVG simplified anything this year?

"He definitely hasn't changed a thing," said Tranquill. "If anything, he has added some things. Just with our knowledge of the game, it continues to grow. Being in his system for two years now, he just keeps putting more on our plate and he challenges us. I've grown a lot as a football player under him and I really appreciate that from him."

Talk to you guys in 2017.

Blimey....

 

[GoldenDomer]

247 QU to Tranquill: Has BVG simplified anything this year?

"He definitely hasn't changed a thing," said Tranquill. "If anything, he has added some things. Just with our knowledge of the game, it continues to grow. Being in his system for two years now, he just keeps putting more on our plate and he challenges us. I've grown a lot as a football player under him and I really appreciate that from him."

Talk to you guys in 2017.

 

[EvilleIrish]

I just read an article from Scout on assistant coaches and what all prospects they had been visiting. All of them had been to see SEVERAL kids, but BVG saw one. One. How?

 

[IrishLion]

I just read an article from Scout on assistant coaches and what all prospects they had been visiting. All of them had been to see SEVERAL kids, but BVG saw one. One. How?

Saving his visits to make an impact?

Idk.

 

[koonja]

I just read an article from Scout on assistant coaches and what all prospects they had been visiting. All of them had been to see SEVERAL kids, but BVG saw one. One. How?

He's busy writing up the defensive playbook in braille.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I just read an article from Scout on assistant coaches and what all prospects they had been visiting. All of them had been to see SEVERAL kids, but BVG saw one. One. How?

Diaco was the same way. Maybe this is a BK policy?

 

[dublinirish]

BVG hates recruiting, its known.

 

[NorthDakota]

WTF?

Now thats what we call tough love?

 

[zelezo vlk]

Diaco was the same way. Maybe this is a BK policy?

It'd be strange that the policy only affects the defensive coordinator. I don't find it likely.

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[ACamp1900]

I just read an article from Scout on assistant coaches and what all prospects they had been visiting. All of them had been to see SEVERAL kids, but BVG saw one. One. How?

Yeah but that one visit was very complex and once the recruit takes it all in he's gonna be all ND.

 

[ulukinatme]

You'd think with that personality he'd be a hit in recruiting. I would have thought the same thing with Diaco though, so maybe it is a BK policy not to involve the DC too heavily in the process?

 

[Rocket 94]

BVG hates recruiting, its known.

Well he probably should have been more involved on the trail the last few years because it might cost him his job after this year. If he wants his players for his scheme then he needs to get after it.

 

[koonja]

'Hates recruiting' is probably a label given to a lot of coaches which isn't necessarily true, but if it is, how can you do that in college?

That's like saying I will work at my company but refuse to send emails because I like phone calls.

 

[NDVirginia19]

"Coach Van Gorder is such a cool guy, I can't wait to play for him" - said no recruit ever. Imagine how good we could be recruiting with a charismatic DC who's also good at his job

 

[woolybug25]

"Coach Van Gorder is such a cool guy, I can't wait to play for him" - said no recruit ever. Imagine how good we could be recruiting with a charismatic DC who's also good at his job

As Mike Frank bluntly said on his podcast, "ND currently has a credibility problem with defensive recruits".

Ive probably given BVG too long of a line, and I do think it's still possible for him to revert to the guy that designed those UGA defenses we hoped to get, but even my patience is wearing thin.

Here's my thought, if we get a decent way through the season and our defense is a seive again, do we pull the trigger during the season? Hear me out here...

We have the perfect guy to take over mid season and either bring stability so we can hire a new DC in the off season or hell... Maybe just take over and let us hire a hot shot new defensive assistant/next in line guy like Sanford (his defensive like that is). That guy could be good ol' Bob Elliott.

Before you all chuck your beer cans at me. Take a look at his coaching history:

Bob Elliott Bio :: Notre Dame Football :: UND.COM :: The Official Site of Notre Dame Athletics

Not to mention, the guy had done a tremendous job keeping our patchwork secondary together despite the injuries and a DC hell bent on leaving them exposed on every. single. down...

 

[woolybug25]

Mods... Sorry for the sidetrack, feel free to move to the BVG thread if necessary.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

As Mike Frank bluntly said on his podcast, "ND currently has a credibility problem with defensive recruits".

Ugh.


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[Shamrock Theories]

Ive probably given BVG too long of a line, and I do think it's still possible for him to revert to the guy that designed those UGA defenses we hoped to get, but even my patience is wearing thin.

Here's my thought, if we get a decent way through the season and our defense is a seive again, do we pull the trigger during the season? Hear me out here...

We have the perfect guy to take over mid season and either bring stability so we can hire a new DC in the off season or hell... Maybe just take over and let us hire a hot shot new defensive assistant/next in line guy like Sanford (his defensive like that is). That guy could be good ol' Bob Elliott.

Before you all chuck your beer cans at me. Take a look at his coaching history:

Bob Elliott Bio :: Notre Dame Football :: UND.COM :: The Official Site of Notre Dame Athletics

Not to mention, the guy had done a tremendous job keeping our patchwork secondary together despite the injuries and a DC hell bent on leaving them exposed on every. single. down...

Are you forgetting/am I imagining his health problems though? Otherwise I'd be fine with it.

The other choice would be to slot Elston in there, and just tell him to run a base defense. Would be more effective than the ridiculous scheme we are running now.

 

[NDdomer2]

Are you forgetting/am I imagining his health problems though? Otherwise I'd be fine with it.

The other choice would be to slot Elston in there, and just tell him to run a base defense. Would be more effective than the ridiculous scheme we are running now.

2012 Alabama laughs at the thought of a base defense being effective.