Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[irishff1014]

If you think ND is happy with going on 30 years since the last Heisman and National Championship you my friend are smoking crack. I'd bet my left testicle right now, that if Urban called Jack and said "I'm ready to put you guys back on the map" Jack would change the locks on Kelly's office while he was at lunch. You do realize that if we let 50 years go by without winning a championship we will be the new Army....Good 50 years ago and now just blah.

Although my original post was half joking, if Urban wanted to really become a "Legend" than he can do one of two things. One of them is stay at OSU and keep winning, the other is go to ND and make them relevant year in and year out. The next coach that does that at ND will have a statue built. And it's not a guy that loses 7 games in year 7.

And serious ?...What makes Meyer so terrible?? Some real nonsense has gone on at ND under BK watch. What makes him so much better than Meyer?

You better get ready to lose that thing cause that AIN't happening.

 

[Kingbish01]

You better get ready to lose that thing cause that AIN't happening.

I'm being serious. You really think if Urban Meyer called ND (with the state the FB program is in) and wanted the job......He would get told "no"


Dude............................................

 

[ACamp1900]

In a crazy mixed up world where Urban would reach out to ND, when ND was in need of a coach, and said, "I'm all in"... of course ND jumps on that, but that crazy mixed up world ain't the one we live in.

 

[kmoose]

If you think ND is happy with going on 30 years since the last Heisman and National Championship you my friend are smoking crack. I'd bet my left testicle right now, that if Urban called Jack and said "I'm ready to put you guys back on the map" Jack would change the locks on Kelly's office while he was at lunch. You do realize that if we let 50 years go by without winning a championship we will be the new Army....Good 50 years ago and now just blah.

Although my original post was half joking, if Urban wanted to really become a "Legend" than he can do one of two things. One of them is stay at OSU and keep winning, the other is go to ND and make them relevant year in and year out. The next coach that does that at ND will have a statue built. And it's not a guy that loses 7 games in year 7.

And serious ?...What makes Meyer so terrible?? Some real nonsense has gone on at ND under BK watch. What makes him so much better than Meyer?

I never said that the Administration would not hire Urban Meyer. I said that the Administration is not going to give ANY coach everything and anything that they want, which you suggested that they would do, in the post that I replied to.

 

[Kingbish01]

In a crazy mixed up world where Urban reached out to ND, when ND needed a coach, and said, "I'm all in"... of course ND jumps on that, but that crazy mixed up world ain't the one we live in.

Agreed....It would never happen, but if it would ND isn't too good for Urban. And that's why my testicle is safe...lol...

 

[Kingbish01]

I never said that the Administration would not hire Urban Meyer. I said that the Administration is not going to give ANY coach everything and anything that they want, which you suggested that they would do, in the post that I replied to.

Oh, my bad I did misread that. I think Kelly moved the needle enough to win, and I think Urban would have won probably 10 games that Kelly lost. Tulsa, South Florida, Cam's fumble, Clemson, TX, FSU bowl game, FSU a few years back.....Those are just off the top of my head.

Edit...Also Stanford last year, because Urban wouldn't employ a bum like BVG

 

[irishff1014]

I'm being serious. You really think if Urban Meyer called ND (with the state the FB program is in) and wanted the job......He would get told "no"


Dude............................................

He would get told the stipulations of the university and if agreed to those then yes but that won't happen.

 

[Kingbish01]

All I'm saying is keep BK until they can make that HOME RUN hire (like UM) because if they strike out again and pick the wrong guy....The history of ND football is at stake, and I'm only being half dramatic. There is a ton riding on the next hire if BK doesn't work out. And I don't want to see them gamble on anyone...Even Herman.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm being serious. You really think if Urban Meyer called ND (with the state the FB program is in) and wanted the job......He would get told "no"


Dude............................................

Considering his previous heart conditions, he would never take this job.

 

[Irish YJ]

All I'm saying is keep BK until they can make that HOME RUN hire (like UM) because if they strike out again and pick the wrong guy....The history of ND football is at stake, and I'm only being half dramatic. There is a ton riding on the next hire if BK doesn't work out. And I don't want to see them gamble on anyone...Even Herman.

More than half... There was a ton riding on it after Lou, then after BD, then after TW, then after CW. CW took us a little forward, BK a few steps more. IMO opinion ND has a golden history, but silver football program.

We never will be consistent contenders for the NC. Every once in a while when the stars align, we'll be in the conversation...

Too many recruiting limitations and other challenges to ever bring a proven home run hire in at HC. Our best chance is taking an up and comer and hope they are one to pan out and become a rock star. A guy like Venables for instance. Even with a rock star who can recruit, recruiting defense will always be an uphill battle for us. That is unless we drop the academic requirements and move ND to the South or out West by the ocean.

 

[irishff1014]

More than half... There was a ton riding on it after Lou, then after BD, then after TW, then after CW. CW took us a little forward, BK a few steps more. IMO opinion ND has a golden history, but silver football program.

We never will be consistent contenders for the NC. Every once in a while when the stars align, we'll be in the conversation...

Too many recruiting limitations and other challenges to ever bring a proven home run hire in at HC. Our best chance is taking an up and comer and hope they are one to pan out and become a rock star. A guy like Venables for instance. Even with a rock star who can recruit, recruiting defense will always be an uphill battle for us. That is unless we drop the academic requirements and move ND to the South or out West by the ocean.

The recruit thing is false. We have good recruits. Hiring BVG is the link that is causing this shit storm. BVG was a failure at ND.

 

[Kingbish01]

More than half... There was a ton riding on it after Lou, then after BD, then after TW, then after CW. CW took us a little forward, BK a few steps more. IMO opinion ND has a golden history, but silver football program.

We never will be consistent contenders for the NC. Every once in a while when the stars align, we'll be in the conversation...

Too many recruiting limitations and other challenges to ever bring a proven home run hire in at HC. Our best chance is taking an up and comer and hope they are one to pan out and become a rock star. A guy like Venables for instance. Even with a rock star who can recruit, recruiting defense will always be an uphill battle for us. That is unless we drop the academic requirements and move ND to the South or out West by the ocean.

See, I disagree. I think last year falls on coaching and that could have been 2 times in 4 years that they made a run. I know...that is the stars aligning...I don't buy that. It's still ND, and kids still want to go there. I think BK was great for ND, but I think it's run it's course. And the pressure now is waaaay greater than after Lou. The administration just wanted someone they could control, and BD fit the bill.

 

[Kingbish01]

The recruit thing is false. We have good recruits. Hiring BVG is the link that is causing this shit storm. BVG was a failure at ND.

Bingo. They can still get the kids, just have to put them in a better position to succeed. Airing it out in the middle of a hurricane, was the straw that broke the camels back for me. Keeping BVG on for as long as he did was mind boggling.

 

[ulukinatme]

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[Irish YJ]

See, I disagree. I think last year falls on coaching and that could have been 2 times in 4 years that they made a run. I know...that is the stars aligning...I don't buy that. It's still ND, and kids still want to go there. I think BK was great for ND, but I think it's run it's course. And the pressure now is waaaay greater than after Lou. The administration just wanted someone they could control, and BD fit the bill.

The stars, but more so our schedule and opponents aligned. When we got to the bowl, we got smacked around like a prison yard sissy.

Bingo. They can still get the kids, just have to put them in a better position to succeed. Airing it out in the middle of a hurricane, was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

Hurricane has nothing to do with defensive recruiting, or O skill players like RB and WR. Anyone who has followed recruiting closely, and knows the top 100 each year, knows we rarely win battles for top D recruits. When we do, it is because the kid is not a typical kid (Manti) and is looking for something more than football, or an in-state kid (like Jaylon). There is a reason why the SEC takes the biggest share of top 100 defenders.

The recruit thing is false. We have good recruits. Hiring BVG is the link that is causing this shit storm. BVG was a failure at ND.

We have good recruits on the D side, but not great. Look at the top P5 schools with top Ds, and it's an easy thing to prove. Yes we've had good Os, but when facing teams like OhioSt and Bama, our good O look middle class, and our D looks like a HS team. Feel free to go back and compare recruiting. Stars don't mean everything, but they do mean something, and especially when you combine them with good coaching (which we will be challenged to get). A simple way to limit your comparison is to look at where the majority of top 10 (position) CB/S/DT/DE/WR/RBs have gone the last 10 years.

If y'all don't think our academic requirements coupled with our geographical location does not impact our ability to recruit the positions I mentioned above, you obviously need to find a time machine and go back to the Rockne or Leahy eras.

 

[irishff1014]

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Man this is a tough business. You can tell Kelly loves his guys I have made my comments but I am back tracking some. I still don't agree with his game planning.

 

[irishff1014]

The stars, but more so our schedule and opponents aligned. When we got to the bowl, we got smacked around like a prison yard sissy.



Hurricane has nothing to do with defensive recruiting, or O skill players like RB and WR. Anyone who has followed recruiting closely, and knows the top 100 each year, knows we rarely win battles for top D recruits. When we do, it is because the kid is not a typical kid (Manti) and is looking for something more than football, or an in-state kid (like Jaylon). There is a reason why the SEC takes the biggest share of top 100 defenders.



We have good recruits on the D side, but not great. Look at the top P5 schools with top Ds, and it's an easy thing to prove. Yes we've had good Os, but when facing teams like OhioSt and Bama, our good O look middle class, and our D looks like a HS team. Feel free to go back and compare recruiting. Stars don't mean everything, but they do mean something, and especially when you combine them with good coaching (which we will be challenged to get). A simple way to limit your comparison is to look at where the majority of top 10 (position) CB/S/DT/DE/WR/RBs have gone the last 10 years.

If y'all don't think our academic requirements coupled with our geographical location does not impact our ability to recruit the positions I mentioned above, you obviously need to find a time machine and go back to the Rockne or Leahy eras.

You are right location and academics probably scare some elite players away. But there is an awful lot of good to very good players that want to be here.

 

[mgriff]

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That looks like a man hanging on to a team by a thread. "Please guys, don't quit on this team. Don't quit on me, I love you guys." Sad.

 

[irishff1014]

That looks like a man hanging on to a team by a thread. "Please guys, don't quit on this team. Don't quit on me, I love you guys." Sad.

No doubt he is under a lot of pressure. We could have really used a bye week this weekend.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I keep on thinking about the Utah game in 2010. Irish were 4-5 with a ranked Utah team coming in. One play changed that game, changed the whole season. Robert Blanton blocked the punt for a TD. Notre Dame went on to win the last 4 games of the season. Including breaking the losing streak to USC and crushing Miami in the Sun Bowl.

Can hope something similar happens on Saturday.


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[phgreek]

I keep on thinking about the Utah game in 2010. Irish were 4-5 with a ranked Utah team coming in. One play changed that game, changed the whole season. Robert Blanton blocked the punt for a TD. Notre Dame went on to win the last 4 games of the season. Including breaking the losing streak to USC and crushing Miami in the Sun Bowl.

Can hope something similar happens on Saturday.


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Need that...really need that

 

[IrishLax]

I keep on thinking about the Utah game in 2010. Irish were 4-5 with a ranked Utah team coming in. One play changed that game, changed the whole season. Robert Blanton blocked the punt for a TD. Notre Dame went on to win the last 4 games of the season. Including breaking the losing streak to USC and crushing Miami in the Sun Bowl.

Can hope something similar happens on Saturday.


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I feel like we needed that against NCST.

The problem with having kids stand in a hurricane for three hours and lose and go to 2-4 is that we already had the "come to Jesus" meeting after Duke. Stanford is going to come in focused, even if they lack talent. I seriously question with all the negativity around the team if there is any chance ND does the same. I think it's more likely that this season spirals out of control and we go 4-8 than it is we circle the wagons at this point. The upperclassmen just seem way to soft to lead this team to any good outcome... hope I'm wrong, but every week this team looks rudderless and like they have no clue who to turn to for leadership. That team you're talking about had some real leaders on it and Kelly got the turn around by handing ownership of the team to them instead of the losers who had been running things (or in the case of Brian Smith, getting full buy in from him and exceptionally better play).

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I feel like we needed that against NCST.



The problem with having kids stand in a hurricane for three hours and lose and go to 2-4 is that we already had the "come to Jesus" meeting after Duke. Stanford is going to come in focused, even if they lack talent. I seriously question with all the negativity around the team if there is any chance ND does the same. I think it's more likely that this season spirals out of control and we go 4-8 than it is we circle the wagons at this point. The upperclassmen just seem way to soft to lead this team to any good outcome... hope I'm wrong, but every week this team looks rudderless and like they have no clue who to turn to for leadership. That team you're talking about had some real leaders on it and Kelly got the turn around by handing ownership of the team to them instead of the losers who had been running things (or in the case of Brian Smith, getting full buy in from him and exceptionally better play).

You are 100% correct. I just hope someone steps up, makes a play and the team gets a good win and some confidence.


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[kmoose]

I feel like we needed that against NCST.

The problem with having kids stand in a hurricane for three hours and lose and go to 2-4 is that we already had the "come to Jesus" meeting after Duke. Stanford is going to come in focused, even if they lack talent. I seriously question with all the negativity around the team if there is any chance ND does the same. I think it's more likely that this season spirals out of control and we go 4-8 than it is we circle the wagons at this point. The upperclassmen just seem way to soft to lead this team to any good outcome... hope I'm wrong, but every week this team looks rudderless and like they have no clue who to turn to for leadership. That team you're talking about had some real leaders on it and Kelly got the turn around by handing ownership of the team to them instead of the losers who had been running things (or in the case of Brian Smith, getting full buy in from him and exceptionally better play).

Well, the one thing that the Texas and Duke games have shown us......... this team doesn't quit.

 

[NDRock]

I think overall, Kelly's teams have always fought hard. We've been blown out very few times during his tenure compared to Weis and Tyrone. This year has been no different.

 

[stlnd01]

I feel like we needed that against NCST.

The problem with having kids stand in a hurricane for three hours and lose and go to 2-4 is that we already had the "come to Jesus" meeting after Duke. Stanford is going to come in focused, even if they lack talent. I seriously question with all the negativity around the team if there is any chance ND does the same. I think it's more likely that this season spirals out of control and we go 4-8 than it is we circle the wagons at this point. The upperclassmen just seem way to soft to lead this team to any good outcome... hope I'm wrong, but every week this team looks rudderless and like they have no clue who to turn to for leadership. That team you're talking about had some real leaders on it and Kelly got the turn around by handing ownership of the team to them instead of the losers who had been running things (or in the case of Brian Smith, getting full buy in from him and exceptionally better play).

Totally agree about the lack of leadership. So, hoping a few of the young guys step up and make themselves leaders (And not just Kizer. He's pressing too hard as it is) Morgan and Adams spring to mind. It's going to be their team soon anyway.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I think overall, Kelly's teams have always fought hard. We've been blown out very few times during his tenure compared to Weis and Tyrone. This year has been no different.

Agree. After 2010 the only blow out loses I can recall are 2014 USC, 2012 NC game and Fiesta Bowl vs OSU.


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[IrishLax]

I think overall, Kelly's teams have always fought hard. We've been blown out very few times during his tenure compared to Weis and Tyrone. This year has been no different.

What is different though is that we've lost every one score game. A hallmark of peak Kelly was winning those kinds of games through mental and physical toughness.

2012: 5-0 one score games.
2013: 5-2 one score games.
2014: 3-3 one score games... one of those was the FSU bullshit.
2015: 4-2 one score games... two losses being heartbreakers to Clemson/Stanford on the road.

Clearly 2012/2013 we were better at "closing" than 2014/2015 and now in 2016 it's taken another step down. This is the same crap that got Charlie Weis fired... in his last season he could've EASILY been 10-2 but found ways to lose tight games. This current Notre Dame team seems to "pucker" whereas previous squads seemed very comfortable in close games.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

What is different though is that we've lost every one score game. A hallmark of peak Kelly was winning those kinds of games through mental and physical toughness.



2012: 5-0 one score games.

2013: 5-2 one score games.

2014: 3-3 one score games... one of those was the FSU bullshit.

2015: 4-2 one score games... two losses being heartbreakers to Clemson/Stanford on the road.



Clearly 2012/2013 we were better at "closing" than 2014/2015 and now in 2016 it's taken another step down. This is the same crap that got Charlie Weis fired... in his last season he could've EASILY been 10-2 but found ways to lose tight games. This current Notre Dame team seems to "pucker" whereas previous squads seemed very comfortable in close games.

I've mentioned this in another thread. You have to hope for this. That typically young teams, which this team is, who typically lose a lot of close games in a season; then the following year win those close games.


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[stlnd01]

What is different though is that we've lost every one score game. A hallmark of peak Kelly was winning those kinds of games through mental and physical toughness.

2012: 5-0 one score games.
2013: 5-2 one score games.
2014: 3-3 one score games... one of those was the FSU bullshit.
2015: 4-2 one score games... two losses being heartbreakers to Clemson/Stanford on the road.

Clearly 2012/2013 we were better at "closing" than 2014/2015 and now in 2016 it's taken another step down. This is the same crap that got Charlie Weis fired... in his last season he could've EASILY been 10-2 but found ways to lose tight games. This current Notre Dame team seems to "pucker" whereas previous squads seemed very comfortable in close games.

Absolutely agree that this year we lack a certain mental toughness that Kelly's teams have pretty much always shown at Notre Dame. But unsure if that's some new long-term condition or a factor of youth and lack of leadership in this particular senior class. I like to think it's the latter (and have no reason to think otherwise).