Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[phgreek]

Absolutely agree that this year we lack a certain mental toughness that Kelly's teams have pretty much always shown at Notre Dame. But unsure if that's some new long-term condition or a factor of youth and lack of leadership in this particular senior class. I like to think it's the latter (and have no reason to think otherwise).

I think it is the bolded, because they brainfart at times when leaders and upperclassmen sense the kill shot, and deliver it....but they never lay down, which means their talent can get them back in games that they should have been blown out. They can do it...someone just needs to step into the role, and demand the execution. I'm afraid the folks with C on their chest...none of them are that dude. I actually think its DK...he has to do it now.

 

[ulukinatme]

I keep on thinking about the Utah game in 2010. Irish were 4-5 with a ranked Utah team coming in. One play changed that game, changed the whole season. Robert Blanton blocked the punt for a TD. Notre Dame went on to win the last 4 games of the season. Including breaking the losing streak to USC and crushing Miami in the Sun Bowl.

Can hope something similar happens on Saturday.


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It's funny you mentioned that. This Stanford game is the first game I'm able to get to this year. Coincidentally, that Utah game was the first game I was able to get to that 2010 season. It was absolutely wild, Utah looked shell shocked. ND Stadium was by far the biggest stadium they had played in up to that point in the season, and we were loud. I'm normally in the gold seats unless I buy my own tickets. I can tell you lots of older donors had given up on the season and given their tickets to younger family members. We were loud, and we let Utah have it.

There was a group of 4 guys in front of me, 4th row, 40 yard line right behind Utah's bench. I know the family that usually sits there, these guys were new. They were heckling the Utah players all game...nothing crude, just funny shit. They'd have a bad series, players would come to the sideline and they'd all yell in unison "What are we going to do, coach?!" They really let Shaky Smithson have it, but they called out other players by number trying to get their attention with the same line. Shaky got the worst of it though. He wasn't having a great game, he'd come off the field and they'd yell every time "HEY, SHAKY, WHAT'S GOING ON?!" It became their rallying cry, and the whole gold seat section started joining in. Near the end of the game Shaky turned around and just shrugged with a smile, he was a good guy. I'm not usually hammered for a game, but I was pretty tipsy for this one...and we had a good time.

So yeah, haven't been able to get to any games this season till this Stanford game, mostly because my wife's current weekend work schedule hasn't allowed it. I'm hoping for a similar Utah-like game here. I have a feeling a lot of older fans are already packing up and giving away tickets after the crummy start. I'm hoping it'll be another loud, electric game with a great ending.

 

[CrystalHead]

Let's just say hypothetically that Kelly rights the ship and things start going our way. Let's just say we win out to go 8-4 AND win a bowl game. Does that make Kelly a good coach again? The talent is there although they are young. We are almost 3 weeks removed from the VanGorder disaster and the defense is playing with more passion. Other than Miami and VA Tech, which will be long shot wins, it is possible with our talent. Even though Stanford is down this year, I believe they are our Utah to turn this season around. A convincing win plus a bye week can make this a possibility IMO

 

[PANDFAN]

What is different though is that we've lost every one score game. A hallmark of peak Kelly was winning those kinds of games through mental and physical toughness.

2012: 5-0 one score games.
2013: 5-2 one score games.
2014: 3-3 one score games... one of those was the FSU bullshit.
2015: 4-2 one score games... two losses being heartbreakers to Clemson/Stanford on the road.

Clearly 2012/2013 we were better at "closing" than 2014/2015 and now in 2016 it's taken another step down. This is the same crap that got Charlie Weis fired... in his last season he could've EASILY been 10-2 but found ways to lose tight games. This current Notre Dame team seems to "pucker" whereas previous squads seemed very comfortable in close games.

Lack of prominent leaders on either side...there is NO guy, lack of urgency

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Lack of prominent leaders on either side...there is NO guy, lack of urgency

Yup. Makes a huge difference.

Also, I don't have time to verify my opinion/thought right now, but Weis' teams were notorious for total collapses the second half of the season. Whereas, outside of '14, hasn't BK's teams done the opposite? Maybe I'm wrong.

I think this year is awful. Given the talent, if this team goes 3-9, it'll be consider WAY WORSE than the Weis 3-9 season. But something in me says to chalk it up as an anomaly and see what DC Kelly will hire and then see how next season plays out.

 

[PANDFAN]

Yup. Makes a huge difference.

Also, I don't have time to verify my opinion/thought right now, but Weis' teams were notorious for total collapses the second half of the season. Whereas, outside of '14, hasn't BK's teams done the opposite? Maybe I'm wrong.

I think this year is awful. Given the talent, if this team goes 3-9, it'll be consider WAY WORSE than the Weis 3-9 season. But something in me says to chalk it up as an anomaly and see what DC Kelly will hire and then see how next season plays out.

the sideline ALWAYS looks depressed, even when we are winning or score...there is now w/ hudson coming off the sideline after a stop but he is IT....when i watch an sec game the whole entire team is standing, jumping up and down trying to get the crowd into it...we have NONE...

 

[NDohio]

I keep on thinking about the Utah game in 2010. Irish were 4-5 with a ranked Utah team coming in. One play changed that game, changed the whole season. Robert Blanton blocked the punt for a TD. Notre Dame went on to win the last 4 games of the season. Including breaking the losing streak to USC and crushing Miami in the Sun Bowl.

Can hope something similar happens on Saturday.


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I have written this season off. I am pretty much hoping to see the young players get experience and improve as the year goes on. But, the one thing I truly expect to see is ND take it to Stanford this week. Stanford has been deplorable against the pass(they have major injuries to their CB's) and their QB play has been inconsistent. Our young receivers should have a great game against this Stanford defensive backfield. Maybe this game will turn the corner for ND this season. I tend to think it will be a big win, but temporary hope as we go back to being bad again post Stanford...

 

[Meatloaf]

Brian kelly is the Andy Dalton of coaching where he's just good enough to justify keeping him around even though you know you can do better. We are stuck towing the Brian Kelly line. Fuck.

For reference on what the 'Dalton Line' is:



QB Index Awards - NFL.com

 

[Wingman Ray]

No doubt he is under a lot of pressure. We could have really used a bye week this weekend.

NCS is a bye week on any decent teams schedule

 

[IrishLion]

Brian kelly is the Andy Dalton of coaching where he's just good enough to justify keeping him around even though you know you can do better. We are stuck towing the Brian Kelly line. Fuck.

For reference on what the 'Dalton Line' is:



QB Index Awards - NFL.com

As a Bengals fan, I am obligated to mention that Dalton was a top-5 QB last year.

But wait. That just might further support the theory that BK = Dalton, if you consider the positive outlier.

 

[Free Manera]

the sideline ALWAYS looks depressed, even when we are winning or score...there is now w/ hudson coming off the sideline after a stop but he is IT....when i watch an sec game the whole entire team is standing, jumping up and down trying to get the crowd into it...we have NONE...

This has been the case for several years and I don't get it. Late in their game Saturday, Houston was almost guaranteed to lose. Yet they were all jumping around on the sideline for the last kickoff.

If you only watched ND games, then decided to watch other games on some Saturday, you would be so confused by the emotion and energy. It would be like "are they allowed to jump around and yell like that?"

There really must be something within the culture that subdues these guys. High level recruits don't come into ND wanting to be unemotional and softspoken. They turn into that though after a year in the program. They actually talked about this on Power Hour a week or two ago.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

the sideline ALWAYS looks depressed, even when we are winning or score...there is now w/ hudson coming off the sideline after a stop but he is IT....when i watch an sec game the whole entire team is standing, jumping up and down trying to get the crowd into it...we have NONE...

That's a trickledown effect of BK's business approach to everything including game days. I completely disagree with it on the collegiate level, but it's what he does. He's not going to change who he is.

 

[irishog77]

Let's just say hypothetically that Kelly rights the ship and things start going our way. Let's just say we win out to go 8-4 AND win a bowl game. Does that make Kelly a good coach again? The talent is there although they are young. We are almost 3 weeks removed from the VanGorder disaster and the defense is playing with more passion. Other than Miami and VA Tech, which will be long shot wins, it is possible with our talent. Even though Stanford is down this year, I believe they are our Utah to turn this season around. A convincing win plus a bye week can make this a possibility IMO

No. You can't undo multiple losses, bad play calls, bad game plans, bad decision making, bad player development, bad personnel decisions (for staff and players both), bad recruiting strategies, bad leadership, and bad self-awareness.

My biggest fear (and I will bet big, real money this happens) is that ND keeps BK around and then they do well next year, like 10-2. His seat will be hot and he will have talent all over the field, and he will know his entire professional future is on the line. So BK gets the team to 10-2 next year and it buys him another couple years after that to go 8-4.

 

[gkIrish]

No. You can't undo multiple losses, bad play calls, bad game plans, bad decision making, bad player development, bad personnel decisions (for staff and players both), bad recruiting strategies, bad leadership, and bad self-awareness.

My biggest fear (and I will bet big, real money this happens) is that ND keeps BK around and then they do well next year, like 10-2. His seat will be hot and he will have talent all over the field, and he will know his entire professional future is on the line. So BK gets the team to 10-2 next year and it buys him another couple years after that to go 8-4.

Great post.

You hit on my biggest fear...that we go 5-7 or something this year and improve to 9-3 next year. Many people will be satisfied with the 4 game improvement until we go 7-5 again the following year. And so we wasted 2 seasons again.

The damage is done. You can't undo it like you said. Move. On.

 

[stlnd01]

That's a trickledown effect of BK's business approach to everything including game days. I completely disagree with it on the collegiate level, but it's what he does. He's not going to change who he is.

Kelly's approach is part of it, but I don't recall our team's attitude being so different under his predecessors, even the later years of Holtz. It's something deeper in the culture of our football program than just Kelly.
But, really, you know who plays with fire and swagger and excitement? Winning teams. Come to think of it, our 2012 team, especially on defense, played with plenty.

 

[CrystalHead]

No. You can't undo multiple losses, bad play calls, bad game plans, bad decision making, bad player development, bad personnel decisions (for staff and players both), bad recruiting strategies, bad leadership, and bad self-awareness.

My biggest fear (and I will bet big, real money this happens) is that ND keeps BK around and then they do well next year, like 10-2. His seat will be hot and he will have talent all over the field, and he will know his entire professional future is on the line. So BK gets the team to 10-2 next year and it buys him another couple years after that to go 8-4.

Couldn't agree with you more. It was completely hypothetical and no way do I believe he can right the ship. He is the general of this team and not only does he make the same coaching errors over and over again, he then expects his players to correct theirs? It starts at the top coach! I promise it will trickle down to the players if you lead by example and not rely on the lip service and excuses. Did you see Saban after the last play Saturday? Coaching to the last play even though the game was won.

 

[stlnd01]

Great post.

You hit on my biggest fear...that we go 5-7 or something this year and improve to 9-3 next year. Many people will be satisfied with the 4 game improvement until we go 7-5 again the following year. And so we wasted 2 seasons again.

The damage is done. You can't undo it like you said. Move. On.

Still not clear what "damage" we're talking about here.
Van Gorder? Yes. But he's gone and that will take a little time to repair. Losing a few shitty games? OK. But that's not a long-term thing. A bad game plan Saturday? For sure, but also very fixable.

This season sucks. But we were very good last year and have no reason to think we won't be very good next year. We have all the pieces in place to be a very strong program - talent, depth, resources - on a sustained level, and for that you can thanks Kelly and Swarbrick. I'd think very carefully before blowing that up (And you can be quite sure that forcing out Kelly puts Swarbrick on the clock, too. He only gets one more football coach to hire, too.)

 

[gkIrish]

Still not clear what "damage" we're talking about here.
Van Gorder? Yes. But he's gone and that will take a little time to repair. Losing a few shitty games? OK. But that's not a long-term thing. A bad game plan Saturday? For sure, but also very fixable.

This season sucks. But we were very good last year and have no reason to think we won't be very good next year. We have all the pieces in place to be a very strong program - talent, depth, resources - on a sustained level, and for that you can thanks Kelly and Swarbrick. I'd think very carefully before blowing that up (And you can be quite sure that forcing out Kelly puts Swarbrick on the clock, too. He only gets one more football coach to hire, too.)

You can say that about basically every season since 2012 and only one of those seasons was close to being successful. Everyone looked at this year as being a potential playoff year. Preseason top 10 ranking, easy schedule, etc.

The reason to think we won't be very good next year is because of the coach. Plain and simple. HE IS THE PROBLEM. It's not the talent. It's not the schedule. It's him.

 

[ACamp1900]

Everyone looked at this year as being a potential playoff year.

 

[kmoose]

No. You can't undo multiple losses...

But you would have to factor in wins over what could end up being very good teams like Stanford, Miami, Navy, Virginia Tech, and USC.

... bad play calls.........

That's a matter of opinion, but even so............. every coach has bad play calls peppered throughout the season.

.... bad game plans....

One, so far. Before the Hurricane Game, ND was averaging ~500 yards a game and ~40 points a game. If they come back to those averages for the remainder of the season, then you will have ONE "bad" game plan for a game that was played in the middle of a hurricane.

.... bad decision making...

Every leader makes bad decisions.

...... bad player development....

Really? Nick Martin, Mathias Farley, CJ Prosise, Romero Okwara, and Chris Brown were all 3* guys who are currently playing in the NFL. You can say that he hasn't batted 1.000 on player development, but he hasn't been bad.

bad personnel decisions (for staff and players both)

He's made his share of bad ones, for sure. But he's also hit a few home runs. Mike Sanford appears to be one. CJ Prosise was absolutely one...

...bad recruiting strategies...

With all of the "extra" issues that ND deals with, in terms of recruiting the right kind of student-athlete, I think his recruiting has been nothing short of outstanding. Top 20 class in every year.

bad leadership

Bad leader don't have teams that fight hard for 4 quarters and never give up. Even if it has happened in one or two games, those would be the exception, not the rule.

and bad self-awareness.

I think his self-awareness is probably fine. I think it is his refusal to overreact and condemn himself that makes those who do think he lacks self-awareness.

I'm not sure he will be back next year, and I would completely understand if the University decided to part ways after the season. But I certainly think he could salvage his job if they run the table impressively for the rest of the season. It might not get him off of the hot seat, but it might turn the heat down slightly.

 

[koonja]

In 7 years, every top 30 team is going to have some 'good wins' over a decade of a struggling USC, an overrated Oklahoma, and an overrated Utah (that finished unranked IIRC?).

Relatively speaking, BK does not win big games. He hasn't, he's just had a lot of chances and never wins the big one.

If in 7 years your hanging our hat on beating USC while they're in the dumps, or an overrated Oklahoma and Utah team, you're either a bad coach or a non-P5 team.

Utah finished 9-3, and their final showing was a non-competitive beat down by Boise St. in the bowl game, Lost 26-3.

Oklahoma finished 9-3, with a whooping of AM in their bowl game. Lost 41-13.

These were not 'big wins', they're just the best he's got...

 

[Irish Insanity]

It's not just that he doesn't win 'big' games. It's that he rarely wins against good team and often loses ones we shouldn't. And if we do win, it's often far closer than it ever should be.

 

[stlnd01]

You can say that about basically every season since 2012 and only one of those seasons was close to being successful. Everyone looked at this year as being a potential playoff year. Preseason top 10 ranking, easy schedule, etc.

We were preseason top ten with a favorable schedule. But anyone who thought we were a legit playoff team this year - with so much youth at so many positions - might have been overserved on the Kool Aid.

 

[koonja]

We were preseason top ten with a favorable schedule. But anyone who thought we were a legit playoff team this year - with so much youth at so many positions - might have been overserved on the Kool Aid.

I thought playoffs were likely, largely due to having an elite QB and a winnable schedule. MSU and Stanford - our two biggest worries - are turning out to not be that good... This was the season.

 

[Irish Insanity]

We were preseason top ten with a favorable schedule. But anyone who thought we were a legit playoff team this year - with so much youth at so many positions - might have been overserved on the Kool Aid.

It's not like we put a team of freshman in the field.

 

[gkIrish]

We were preseason top ten with a favorable schedule. But anyone who thought we were a legit playoff team this year - with so much youth at so many positions - might have been overserved on the Kool Aid.

Exhibit A:

2016 ND Record Prediction Poll

38% of fans on this site believed we would/should win 11 or 12 games.

78% believed we would win at least 10.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I thought playoffs were likely, largely due to having an elite QB and a winnable schedule. MSU and Stanford - our two biggest worries - are turning out to not be that good... This was the season.

Not with our secondary and dline.

I didn't expect the season to go as poorly as it has but I was not expecting greatness from this team- thought we could maybe finish in the top 15-20

 

[irishff1014]

Luke, James O, and Rochell showed no leadership at all. Then that horrible defense set up by BVG has hurt this team.

 

[stlnd01]

It's not like we put a team of freshman in the field.

Have you seen our defensive backfield?

Seriously though, we returned, what, three or four starters on defense. Four or five on offense. We did not roll out a team of battle-tested veterans.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Luke, James O, and Rochell showed no leadership at all. Then that horrible defense set up by BVG has hurt this team.

Leadership from anyone on the defensive staff is probably asking to much. They just sat thru BVG tenor where nobody could even think without asking him if it was ok first.

Have you seen our defensive backfield?

Seriously though, we returned, what, three or four starters on defense. Four or five on offense. We did not roll out a team of battle-tested veterans.

Just because they weren't listed as returning starters doesn't mean they didn't have playing time under their belt.

So what's that leave: Coney, Love, and Studstill as the only starters with no experience.