AP Top 25 (ND #11)

[wizards8507]

Yup (on Bama).... lol

8 teams is perfect IMO given the current structure (5 power + 3)
While I don't care for the whole super conference set up, it does have it's benefits too.
Bottom line, we're never going back to good ol' days, so I'd prefer something I consider to be the fairest solution. The committee debating between a 1 loss p5 conference champ vs another one loss p5 conference champ is silly IMO. And not being able to give an undefeated Cinderella non-p5 team with quality wins over p5 schools is horse shit.
The argument can be limited to the 3, if not limited more.

This whole premise about "Power 5" is bullshit. There's no such thing as the "Power 5," the entire concept was invented by the media. If the Big 12 champion isn't one of the best four teams in college football, there's zero reason to care that there's a "Power 5 champion" left out of the playoff. Who cares? What are you going to do when the best Big 12 team is actually the 9th best team in the country? Cry that the playoff should actually be 16 teams? Again, it's completely arbitrary. The best four teams are in, period. A conference championship is its own thing, it's not a quarterfinal for the playoffs. The point of winning the Pac-12 is to be crowned Pac-12 champions, not to qualify for the playoff.

Hypothetical. Let's say the SEC was having a really down year (but we'll use this season's schedule for the sake of conversation). Georgia gets blown out by Notre Dame, Appalachian State, and Georgia Tech. They even lose to Samford. Then they run the table in the SEC and beat a mediocre SEC West champion in the title game to finish 9-4. Do you really support a system in which THAT team gets an automatic playoff bid? I sure don't.

 

[Kingbish01]

UGA leads the series 50-43 but since Spurrier became HC UF is 21-6. Dominating.

Exactly, UGA should win by 24 like YJ said...But that would surprise me more than FLA upsetting them.

 

[woolybug25]

This whole premise about "Power 5" is bullshit. There's no such thing as the "Power 5," the entire concept was invented by the media. If the Big 12 champion isn't one of the best four teams in college football, there's zero reason to care that there's a "Power 5 champion" left out of the playoff. Who cares? What are you going to do when the best Big 12 team is actually the 9th best team in the country? Cry that the playoff should actually be 16 teams? Again, it's completely arbitrary. The best four teams are in, period. A conference championship is its own thing, it's not a quarterfinal for the playoffs. The point of winning the Pac-12 is to be crowned Pac-12 champions, not to qualify for the playoff.

I have nothing to say about your comment, just wanted to add that I love your new avatar. For some reason, it just makes your posts go from angry rants to loveable pontification.

 

[dwshade]

I think UGA will roll over FL this week by around 24ish pts.
Auburn will be tough, but I'll take UGA in a very close one.
@GT will be crazy if GT keeps playing like they've been playing (I can see them possibly upsetting Clemson on the road). You think our stadium was red??

If UGA is undefeated come 11/25, GT's Bobby Dodd will be a rockin. And I might have to take a trip downtown!

Auburn beats Georgia. Other than Georgia beating us by one point (and I think we are a better team now) who have they played? App State, Samford, Tennessee, Vandy and Missouri, all terrible teams. Also beat Miss. State which is average. I'm still not totally sold on Georgia. Weird stat for you. Georgia has what everyone considers a dominant front seven on defense yet they are 103rd ranked in sacks.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm giving this point its own post because it's the most important. Think about what automatic bids for conference champions would do for out-of-conference scheduling. If Georgia can get in AUTOMATICALLY by winning the SEC, then nothing outside of SEC play matters. No more scheduling Notre Dame or Georgia Tech. Their non-conference slate will become Furman, The Citadel, Mercer, and Alabama State. Maybe the years they really want to challenge themselves, they'll come up north and face Brown. Might as well load up on bye weeks to keep your guys healthy for conference play, since that conference 'ship is an automatic ticket to the playoff.

EDIT: And let's not say this is some crazy theory. 2013 Baylor played Wofford, Buffalo, and ULM, to open the season. They were ranked #6 in the pre-bowl AP poll as well as the pre-bowl BCS standings. That team deserves to be left out of a playoff.

 

[Cackalacky]

This whole premise about "Power 5" is bullshit. There's no such thing as the "Power 5," the entire concept was invented by the media.

This opinion...or claimed statement of fact is just flat out untrue.

The Power Five is the colloquial name that is used for the officially designated "Autonomy Conferences" as specified by the CFP. They include the Big Ten Conference, the Big 12 Conference, the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), the Pac-12 Conference, and the Southeastern Conference (SEC).

Prior to CFP, there were six Automatic Qualifier (AQ) conferences. The Big East (football) now the AAC lost its status. The AAC, Independent schools and remaining 4 conferences are designated as the "Group of Five."

Notre Dame IS considered equal to any team in the Power 5, whereas other independents are in the Group of 5.

This isnt media driven bullshit. It is legally defined by NCAA and CFP.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm giving this point its own post because it's the most important. Think about what automatic bids for conference champions would do for out-of-conference scheduling. If Georgia can get in AUTOMATICALLY by winning the SEC, then nothing outside of SEC play matters. No more scheduling Notre Dame or Georgia Tech. Their non-conference slate will become Furman, The Citadel, Mercer, and Alabama State. Maybe the years they really want to challenge themselves, they'll come up north and face Brown. Might as well load up on bye weeks to keep your guys healthy for conference play, since that conference 'ship is an automatic ticket to the playoff.

Fact. If winning the SEC with no more than 1 loss is an automatic bid, then why would they ever schedule anyone outside of the SEC? Why schedule an FBS team at all?

Another note, if winning the SEC is automatic, then why don't we just schedule all of their bottom feeders every season? That's the only way we can have common opponents. Look at UGA this year (not saying they are bottom feeders, not at all), that close loss is what is skyrocketing us. If we would have played BC in that game and won, then a loss to USC this weekend would have us at the middle or bottom of the top 25. But make our loss early, close and to an SEC team... then viola... top ten.

 

[irishfan]

I'm giving this point its own post because it's the most important. Think about what automatic bids for conference champions would do for out-of-conference scheduling. If Georgia can get in AUTOMATICALLY by winning the SEC, then nothing outside of SEC play matters. No more scheduling Notre Dame or Georgia Tech. Their non-conference slate will become Furman, The Citadel, Mercer, and Alabama State. Maybe the years they really want to challenge themselves, they'll come up north and face Brown. Might as well load up on bye weeks to keep your guys healthy for conference play, since that conference 'ship is an automatic ticket to the playoff.

I'm in favor of expanding to 6, but I wouldn't be opposed to 8. I agree with your general point that there should be no automatic bids. 8 just allows the Power 5 conferences that they're gonna close to a lock for getting 1 bid even in a "down" year.

 

[dwshade]

Regardless of rematches, or same conference or ratings, if undefeated Georgia loses to undefeated Alabama by three points (or vice versa), the loser is still almost certainly among the four best and most deserving teams in the country. On a neutral field you'd still pick either of them to beat just about anyone else, wouldn't you?
That ought to count for something.

Let me ask you this then. If undefeated Wisconsin plays undefeated Penn State and Wisconsin fields on a late FG do both of those teams make the playoffs? Or is it just the SEC team who qualify for that scenario due to league bias?

 

[NDdomer2]

But let's say Georgia does schedule all cupcakes then loses in SEC champ game. They have no chance of being one of the 3 at large bids. Where if the had scheduled quality OOC they may still have a chance of getting an at large.

 

[wizards8507]

This isnt media driven bullshit. It is legally defined by NCAA and CFP.

And who exactly is "CFP"?

Psst... it's ESPN, i.e. The Media

No, not TECHNICALLY / OFFICIALLY / LEGALLY, but for all intents and purposes.

 

[Irish#1]

This isn't about "fair." Committee looks at the entirety of the season. Personally I don't think they really want two teams from the same conference in the playoffs. But who knows. Usually all these scenarios we dream up have a way of working themselves out. Georgia could easily lose on the road at Auburn and makes this a moot point.

Not entirely true. They do consider the entire body of work, but I remember last year it was stated that they looked at who was playing the best ball at the end of the year. If you have two 11-1 teams and Team A struggled in a later win and Team B didn't, Team B will get the nod.

 

[Irish YJ]

I would go for 6 with byes to the top 2 before an 8 team playoff. Just dilutes too much. Half the damn playoff would be two loss teams and teams wouldn't give a shit about anything but winning the conference championship for the guaranteed bid. Now you sit out if you are a chump champ - worst of the five and #4 needs to keep their head on a swivel for a non-P5 contender like ND or some Boise St type. Being #1 or #2 should count for more if you are going to dilute the final pool that much. Reward the best regular season performers.

I'd actually enjoy the 1-8 and 2-7 match ups. For instance it would be good to see a conf runner up or non p5 (7 or 8) get a chance to knock off a one or two conference champ that everyone ASSUMES is the 1 or 2 toughest team. This year could be for instance TCU #2 getting matched up with a one loss non-conference like UGA.

Autobids for P5s wouldn't be bad. They already say they prioritize conf championships (they at min say that's their first goal). I would however put some mandates in scheduling that would limit D1 teams to only playing one non-D1 team, and that it must be played in the first 2 games of the season (no more scheduling Mercer before the Irion Bowl - sorry Bama). I'd also require P5 teams to schedule at least 2 out of conf p5 teams, and the 2 from different conferences.

Those rules would make CFB more exciting, and decrease the chump games.

 

[Cackalacky]

And who exactly is "CFP"?

Psst... it's ESPN, i.e. The Media

No, not TECHNICALLY / OFFICIALLY / LEGALLY, but for all intents and purposes.

Psst no its not. Legally, technically, official and all ways that mean anything it is defined as I have stated. There are no ESPN or media people on the Board of Managers or the Selection Committee and the Power 5 teams are determined/defined by the NCAA. All properties related to the CFP (intellectual and financial) are held by BCS Properties LLC.

Leadership[edit]
BCS Properties, LLC holds all properties related to the College Football Playoff.[76] Previous BCS commissioner Bill Hancock is the executive director of the playoff organization,[77] with former ACC Senior Associate Commissioner Michael Kelly as COO.[78] Like the BCS, the playoff system's management committee[79] consists of the conference commissioners from the 10 FBS conferences[80] and Notre Dame's athletic director.[21] The playoff system's headquarters is in Irving, Texas.[77]

Board of Managers[edit]
According to the CFP website, the system's operations are controlled by the Board of Managers, which consists of presidents and chancellors of the playoff group's member universities. The eleven members have sole authority to develop, review and approve annual budgets, policies and operating guidelines. The group also selects the company's officers.[81]

Rodney Bennett – President, Southern Mississippi (C-USA)
Anthony Frank – President, Colorado State (Mountain West)
Burns Hargis – President, Oklahoma State (Big 12)
Jack Hawkins – Chancellor, Troy (Sun Belt)
Rev. John I. Jenkins – President, Notre Dame (Independent)
Mark Keenum – President, Mississippi State (SEC)
Roderick McDavis – President, Ohio (MAC)
Max Nikias – President, USC (Pac-12)
Harvey Perlman (chair) – Chancellor, Nebraska (Big Ten)
Donna Shalala – President, Miami (Fla.) (ACC)
Steadman Upham – President, Tulsa (The American)
Athletics Directors Advisory Group[edit]
According to the CFP website, the Athletics Directors Advisory Group is appointed by the management committee to "offer counsel" on the operations of the system. As an advisory board, it has no authority in the management of the CFP.[81]

Gary Barta, Iowa (Big Ten)
Tom Bowen, Memphis (The American)
Tom Burman, Wyoming (Mountain West)
Joe Castiglione, Oklahoma (Big 12)
Jeremy Foley, Florida (SEC)
Dan Guerrero, UCLA (Pac-12)
Chris Massaro, Middle Tennessee State (C-USA)
Terry Mohajir, Arkansas State (Sun Belt)
Mike O'Brien, Toledo (MAC)
Stan Wilcox, Florida State (ACC)

 

[wizards8507]

But let's say Georgia does schedule all cupcakes then loses in SEC champ game. They have no chance of being one of the 3 at large bids. Where if the had scheduled quality OOC they may still have a chance of getting an at large.

Doesn't matter. The SEC championship slot goes to 1 of 14 teams. The at-large bids go to 3 of 130 teams. Game theory says you go all in on trying to be the 1 of 14 rather than 3 of 130. Better odds. Besides, every other team is going to be scheduling cupcakes too, so it won't be especially detrimental to Georgia in that scenario.

 

[Irish YJ]

Exactly, UGA should win by 24 like YJ said...But that would surprise me more than FLA upsetting them.

I'm not confident in 24, but I am uber confident UGA by 10+ and would bet the farm. Not sure of the line, but UGA is going to roll this year.

Auburn beats Georgia. Other than Georgia beating us by one point (and I think we are a better team now) who have they played? App State, Samford, Tennessee, Vandy and Missouri, all terrible teams. Also beat Miss. State which is average. I'm still not totally sold on Georgia. Weird stat for you. Georgia has what everyone considers a dominant front seven on defense yet they are 103rd ranked in sacks.

Yup, UGA buds were talking about lack of sacks and INTs (ranked 50+).
They are #2 overall so I'm not going to pick on them too much as they held us.

I'm giving this point its own post because it's the most important. Think about what automatic bids for conference champions would do for out-of-conference scheduling. If Georgia can get in AUTOMATICALLY by winning the SEC, then nothing outside of SEC play matters. No more scheduling Notre Dame or Georgia Tech. Their non-conference slate will become Furman, The Citadel, Mercer, and Alabama State. Maybe the years they really want to challenge themselves, they'll come up north and face Brown. Might as well load up on bye weeks to keep your guys healthy for conference play, since that conference 'ship is an automatic ticket to the playoff.

EDIT: And let's not say this is some crazy theory. 2013 Baylor played Wofford, Buffalo, and ULM, to open the season. They were ranked #6 in the pre-bowl AP poll as well as the pre-bowl BCS standings. That team deserves to be left out of a playoff.

see my earlier post on scheduling reforms needed. it could be fixed easy. cupcake limitation is easy if that is what folks wanted.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Auburn beats Georgia. Other than Georgia beating us by one point (and I think we are a better team now) who have they played? App State, Samford, Tennessee, Vandy and Missouri, all terrible teams. Also beat Miss. State which is average. I'm still not totally sold on Georgia. Weird stat for you. Georgia has what everyone considers a dominant front seven on defense yet they are 103rd ranked in sacks.

Don't know about that shade. Georgia is hard to run on and I haven't seen an Auburn receiver yet that can create seperation. If Auburn has to pass I like Ga in the game. If Auburn can run the ball, then they can beat Ga. As far as Ga being 103rd in sacks... it really means nothing IMO. Their DL are gap control guys more than pass rushers. Strange things happen in this series so it should be entertaining to say the least.

 

[greyhammer90]

Doesn't matter. The SEC championship slot goes to 1 of 14 teams. The at-large bids go to 3 of 130 teams. Game theory says you go all in on trying to be the 1 of 14 rather than 3 of 130. Better odds. Besides, every other team is going to be scheduling cupcakes too, so it won't be especially detrimental to Georgia in that scenario.

1. C'mon it's not really 3 of 130. It's more like 3/25ish, which are much more pursuable odds. Most years its going to be blue bloods and perennial powers getting those at-large spots, with the occasional upstart taking a spot. Acting like UMass or MTSU are seriously in contention for those positions is disingenuous.

2. Even if bad out of conference schedules are guaranteed under such a system (I think an argument could be made that they aren't), I think you're overlooking the more fun aspect of that system, which is that it would cause the regular season to be more interesting for more teams. Not in the sense of creating "must win" games but in the sense of keeping teams in playoff contention for longer periods of time.

 

[dwshade]

Don't know about that shade. Georgia is hard to run on and I haven't seen an Auburn receiver yet that can create seperation. If Auburn has to pass I like Ga in the game. If Auburn can run the ball, then they can beat Ga. As far as Ga being 103rd in sacks... it really means nothing IMO. Their DL are gap control guys more than pass rushers. Strange things happen in this series so it should be entertaining to say the least.

Auburn and Georgia are mirror images of each other. Strong running teams with young QB's and great defenses. I just don't see Georgia getting through the regular season unscathed. Really hard to do. November is the month when unbeatens start to fall. Call me crazy but I actually think the South Carolina-Georgia game bears watching.

 

[stlnd01]

Let me ask you this then. If undefeated Wisconsin plays undefeated Penn State and Wisconsin fields on a late FG do both of those teams make the playoffs? Or is it just the SEC team who qualify for that scenario due to league bias?

It's not about league bias. It's about marquee wins. So the answer probably depends on where Ohio State and Michigan State wind up ranked.
If Penn State loses that game but still has a win over a Top 8 (or so) team, they still have a strong case. That's the case Georgia can make (assuming we finish 11-1, which was my original context). If it's Wisconsin who loses in that scenario, probably not. No marquee wins. Playing a shit schedule comes back to bite them.
You'll now say Alabama would have no marquee wins if they don't beat Georgia, and you're right. And I think one-loss Georgia has a stronger case than one-loss Alabama. But Alabama gets points for being Alabama, until proven otherwise.

 

[dwshade]

It's not about league bias. It's about marquee wins. So the answer probably depends on where Ohio State and Michigan State wind up ranked.
If Penn State loses that game but still has a win over a Top 8 (or so) team, they still have a strong case. That's the case Georgia can make (assuming we finish 11-1, which was my original context). If it's Wisconsin who loses in that scenario, probably not. No marquee wins. Playing a shit schedule comes back to bite them.
You'll now say Alabama would have no marquee wins if they don't beat Georgia, and you're right. And I think one-loss Georgia has a stronger case than one-loss Alabama. But Alabama gets points for being Alabama, until proven otherwise.

I still contend it's a playoff game for Bama. Lose to Georgia and they fall behind Georgia, Big Ten champ, ND (provided we win out of course) and either undefeated TCU or one loss OU. These conference championship games have to mean something or what's the point. If Bama loses while Penn State or OSU or an unbeaten Wisconsin wins Big Ten title game and unbeaten TCU or one loss OU wins Big 12 title game I just don't see how Bama gets in coming off a loss and no signature wins.

 

[SonofOahu]

x2

We need a system where power 5s get autobids / 3 at large (with 1 or 2 slots tagged for non p5s). Makes every conf happy.

Reduces human error and subjective and regional BS when it comes to selecting from a bunch of 1 loss teams.
It's better to have error when picking 8th vs 9th or 10th, than it is when 4th vs 5th or 6th.

One more round of games isn't going to hurt anything. The season still means a ton as 0 and 1 loss teams will populate the 8, same as today. $$ will increase.

But with automatic bids, you could have a scenario where (like the NFL, in 2010) you have sub-par teams getting into the playoff. Just take the Top-8.

 

[stlnd01]

I still contend it's a playoff game for Bama. Lose to Georgia and they fall behind Georgia, Big Ten champ, ND (provided we win out of course) and either undefeated TCU or one loss OU. These conference championship games have to mean something or what's the point. If Bama loses while Penn State or OSU or an unbeaten Wisconsin wins Big Ten title game and unbeaten TCU or one loss OU wins Big 12 title game I just don't see how Bama gets in coming off a loss and no signature wins.

The point is TV money. That's the only reason they exist. They certainly don't exist to be a play-in for the playoff, otherwise there'd be enough playoff spots for all five conferences.

We'll see about Bama. I agree they'd lack marquee wins. But if they're dominant wire to wire and lose close to Georgia I could see the committee deciding they're one of the best four regardless. They have kind of earned it over the last several years.

 

[IrishLax]

But with automatic bids, you could have a scenario where (like the NFL, in 2010) you have sub-par teams getting into the playoff. Just take the Top-8.

IMO, that actually makes it more fun. I'd love to see a hypothetical 2-loss Iowa or equivalent playing their way in with a huge upset victory... raises the stakes for everyone while leaving more room for 1-loss teams that play hard schedules to grab an at-large.

 

[dwshade]

nm

 

[dwshade]

The point is TV money. That's the only reason they exist. They certainly don't exist to be a play-in for the playoff, otherwise there'd be enough playoff spots for all five conferences.

We'll see about Bama. I agree they'd lack marquee wins. But if they're dominant wire to wire and lose close to Georgia I could see the committee deciding they're one of the best four regardless. They have kind of earned it over the last several years.

It's about this year, previous years don't factor in. Totally agree conference championship games are all about the money.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

Granted that we win out i think it would be best for us if Georgia loses 2 more times that way only 1 sec team gets in.

 

[notredomer23]

Granted that we win out i think it would be best for us if Georgia loses 2 more times that way only 1 sec team gets in.

I want a UGA rematch

 

[Irish YJ]

IMO, that actually makes it more fun. I'd love to see a hypothetical 2-loss Iowa or equivalent playing their way in with a huge upset victory... raises the stakes for everyone while leaving more room for 1-loss teams that play hard schedules to grab an at-large.

me too.
I'd love to see a #1 Bama for instance that runs through it's cupcakes and division, potentially fall to a #8 non-p5 or 2nd place conf underdog.

I want a UGA rematch

me too x a billion

 

[wizards8507]

IMO, that actually makes it more fun.

Yeah, it makes the playoff more fun, the regular season less fun, and the title of national champion less meaningful.

For example, the 2007 New England Patriots were a better team than the 2007 New York Giants, and I don't think anyone would dispute that. But the NFL obviously crowns the Super Bowl Champion based on who wins the single-elimination playoff tournament so you end up with fluke "any given Sunday" situations in which inferior teams claim championships. Single elimination tournaments are the absolute worst way to determine the "best" team. The old Big 12 model was the best way, similar to European soccer. At least in the NFL, the regular season includes a mini home-and-home round robin tournament within each division, so the crowning of division champions carries that legitimacy.