All Things SkunkBear

[NDdomer2]

Offense not gaining traction? Derrick Green and Shane Morris say Hi

cuz they have done what for their offense?

 

[bibigon]

And why should they always be able to recruit nationally "at least on defense". That's pretty nonsensical. Quantify your remarks.

Because they have:

1) An ex-Ravens defensive coordinator whispering pretty nothing in recruit's ears, and they went from being one of the worst defenses to being a very good defense almost overnight?

2) The largest stadium in the country, ugly though it may be.

3) A ton of high profile NFL talent (from 15 years ago) on TV all the time.

4) A huge fanbase.

5) A ton of national exposure.

6) A huge budget.

7) Some history (the least important, as I imagine recruits don't give a **** about titles vs. high school teams in the 1890s).

I'm not sold on Hoke as a coach, but Michigan should always be recruiting on a top 10 level given their basic advantages/profile. The Mattison effect has taken it up a notch beyond that on defense is all.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Because they have:

1) An ex-Ravens defensive coordinator whispering pretty nothing in recruit's ears, and they went from being one of the worst defenses to being a very good defense almost overnight?

But that's not what you said. To quote you some more, "The bigger surprise was how poorly Michigan recruited under RichRod. They were always going to be able to recruit nationally, at least on defense." Which brings up 2 points of contention:
1) You didn't have GM when Rich Rod was coaching.
2) You said "always recruit". Always does not = with this coordinator on staff.

2) The largest stadium in the country, ugly though it may be.

Has nothing to do with defense specifically.

3) A ton of high profile NFL talent (from 15 years ago) on TV all the time.

Has nothing to do with defense specifically.

4) A huge fanbase.

Has nothing to do with defense specifically.

5) A ton of national exposure.

Has nothing to do with defense specifically.

6) A huge budget.

Has nothing to do with defense specifically.

7) Some history (the least important, as I imagine recruits don't give a **** about titles vs. high school teams in the 1890s).

Has nothing to do with defense specifically.

I'm not sold on Hoke as a coach, but Michigan should always be recruiting on a top 10 level given their basic advantages/profile. The Mattison effect has taken it up a notch beyond that on defense is all.

Okay, that's fine, but that has nothing to do with what you said. Here one last time for reference:

The bigger surprise was how poorly Michigan recruited under RichRod. They were always going to be able to recruit nationally, at least on defense.

And I stand by that being a completely nonsensical statement. I'm trying to understand what you meant when you said that because as far as I can tell it makes ZERO sense.

 

[NDinFL]

Andy is correct

 

[bibigon]

You seem to be confused. Let me simplify for you:

1. Michigan has a lot of qualities that make it easy for them to recruit well.

2. The strongest asset they have is especially helpful for recruiting on defense.

Do you follow now?

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

You seem to be confused. Let me simplify for you:

1. Michigan has a lot of qualities that make it easy for them to recruit well.

2. The strongest asset they have is especially helpful for recruiting on defense.

Do you follow now?

no.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Yeah, I think you were switching gears too fast and the engrish blurred together. The quote I asked about could be rewritten to clarify that because as it stands it doesn't make any sense. But it's cool, I undermeant what you stood.

 

[bibigon]

Yeah, I think you were switching gears too fast and the engrish blurred together. The quote I asked about could be rewritten to clarify that because as it stands it doesn't make any sense. But it's cool, I undermeant what you stood.

I'm glad you were able to catch up.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

I'm glad you were able to catch up.

Hey hey now, it's not catch up when you mumble and drewel and expect us to translate on the fly! Cause that **** you said made no sense. We have standards!

 

[bibigon]

Hey hey now, it's not catch up when you mumble and drewel and expect us to translate on the fly! Cause that **** you said made no sense. We have standards!

It's a plain English language sentence. Your confusion as to plain meaning is no matter.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

It's a plain English language sentence. Your confusion as to plain meaning is no matter.

I was trying to be nice and gracious to you in your error, but since you want to be crass, here is your asinine, nonsensical statement that you completely failed to quantify, yet again.. (I'll let your poor words speak for themselves)

The bigger surprise was how poorly Michigan recruited under RichRod. They were always going to be able to recruit nationally, at least on defense..

It's laughable. Unlike our attempts to let you explain what you meant without coming off like a douche.

 

[TomHaverford]

George Campbell tweeting Michigan fans to show Jacques Patrick love... it is absolutely shocking to me how well this staff at Michigan has been recruiting nationally. I really just don't understand it at all. Are their coaches that awesome? Did they all grow up Flinstones fans? Do they like not even competing for championships in the worst conference in America much less national championships?

What is so shocking? Just like Notre Dame, Michigan has a hell of a lot to sell. Urban Meyer called Greg Mattison the best recruiter he's ever known. Lots of kids that visit also rave about Hoke, saying that he's very personable, down to earth, and just a very relateable regular guy. They all say good things about Hoke, he doesn't try and sell visions from god or admire their butts like a certain guy who coaches in Columbus. He's just real with them. Jabrill Peppers said it best, real recognize real. I think that truly goes a long way in Michigan's recruiting efforts. That combination of Hoke and Mattison has been money since they took over. Their 2012, 2013, and now 2014 recruiting efforts have been terrific. Campbell happens to be a teammate of a 2014 Michigan commit, OL Mason Cole and 2014 Michigan recruit WR Tay Scott, so they have a bit of an "in" there.

I mean did they ever recruit this way NATIONALLY with Carr? They sure didn't with Rich Rod.

Hell yeah they recruited nationally under Carr. Some of Carr's late 1990's and early 2000's classes before the dawn of the internet recruiting sites were great, on paper at least. I remember one year in the 1990's when they just had Tom Lemming and the USA Today top 100 lists as far as recruiting coverage went, Michigan landed 5 of the top 20 prospects on the USA Today list. David Terrell was the #1 WR in the country from Virginia, Marquise Walker was the #2 WR in the country from New Jersey, Justin Fargas was the #1 RB in the country from California, Cato June was the #1 S in the country from D.C., and Drew Henson was the #2 QB in the country from Michigan.

Even when Carr was towards the end in his 2007 class he pulled in 5* Ryan Mallett from Texas and stole 5* CB Donovan Warren of Long Beach Poly (a USC feeder school) from USC. Rodriguez was a buffoon, he couldn't recruit at a high level at any school.

Take a deep breath Lax. With another good year on D, the NFL will come knocking for Mattison. He's the ONLY thing keeping that team together.

Mattison is not going anywhere. Brady Hoke is one of his closest friends, they go back a very long time, and one of the biggest reasons he took the job was to be closer to his family. Mattison makes about $1 million a year and has all kinds of incentives to bump that pay up. It's extremely unlikely he leaves for the NFL. He will retire as the DC at Michigan in probably 5-8 years.

I also don't really care as we stop playing Michigan... but I just can't understand all these kids being from coast to coast being randomly in love with Michigan.

They aren't randomly in love with Michigan! It's recruiting. Mattison and Hoke go out there and recruit their tails off. I also think a lot of top kids have noticed the Peppers commitment as well. When a guy that is the #2 player in the country and could very easily be the #1 player commits and starts recruiting for his school, other top players take notice. Peppers has been very active in trying to recruit other recruits and some are listening to him.

Good news is they lost the coach/primary recruiter (Jerry Montgomery) for Ferns, Cole and Mone, 3 of their top 5 recruits, to Oklahoma earlier this year.

This has not and will not affect Michigan at all.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Great post, Tom. Unlike some of my South Bend brethren, I am not surprised at the recent success UM has had on the national recruiting trail.

I also think Denard is underappreciated in his impact in this shift in momentum.

 

[IrishLax]

What is so shocking? Just like Notre Dame, Michigan has a hell of a lot to sell. Urban Meyer called Greg Mattison the best recruiter he's ever known. Lots of kids that visit also rave about Hoke, saying that he's very personable, down to earth, and just a very relateable regular guy. They all say good things about Hoke, he doesn't try and sell visions from god or admire their butts like a certain guy who coaches in Columbus. He's just real with them. Jabrill Peppers said it best, real recognize real. I think that truly goes a long way in Michigan's recruiting efforts. That combination of Hoke and Mattison has been money since they took over. Their 2012, 2013, and now 2014 recruiting efforts have been terrific. Campbell happens to be a teammate of a 2014 Michigan commit, OL Mason Cole and 2014 Michigan recruit WR Tay Scott, so they have a bit of an "in" there.

Believe me I "get it" with regards to Mattison. And I can see how Hoke might appeal to some kids. But in the first two classes, Michigan simply did not pull a lot of guys from around the country. In '13 you had Derrick Green (made sense... good recruiting... also kinda fell in Michigan's lap), Henry Poggi (made sense), Chris Fox (made sense), and Maurice Hurst (made sense). Everyone else of note (4/high 3 and up) was from the Midwest. In '12, you had Magnuson (shockingly good pull)... and that was it.

Sorry, but that is hardly "recruiting nationally" compared to what ND or some other schools do and almost all of the guys I listed were a battle that Michigan won... not many were just balls to the wall in love with Michigan super early in the cycle. It's the latter that I'm seeing in '14/'15 that I was commenting on.

Hell yeah they recruited nationally under Carr. Some of Carr's late 1990's and early 2000's classes before the dawn of the internet recruiting sites were great, on paper at least. I remember one year in the 1990's when they just had Tom Lemming and the USA Today top 100 lists as far as recruiting coverage went, Michigan landed 5 of the top 20 prospects on the USA Today list. David Terrell was the #1 WR in the country from Virginia, Marquise Walker was the #2 WR in the country from New Jersey, Justin Fargas was the #1 RB in the country from California, Cato June was the #1 S in the country from D.C., and Drew Henson was the #2 QB in the country from Michigan.

Even when Carr was towards the end in his 2007 class he pulled in 5* Ryan Mallett from Texas and stole 5* CB Donovan Warren of Long Beach Poly (a USC feeder school) from USC. Rodriguez was a buffoon, he couldn't recruit at a high level at any school.

OK but in sheer quantity what % of the class was from states outside of the greater Midwest? Hoke over the first two years was looking at something like 12-15%. What was Carr looking at? A couple gems or massive coast to coast recruiting efforts?

They aren't randomly in love with Michigan! It's recruiting. Mattison and Hoke go out there and recruit their tails off. I also think a lot of top kids have noticed the Peppers commitment as well. When a guy that is the #2 player in the country and could very easily be the #1 player commits and starts recruiting for his school, other top players take notice. Peppers has been very active in trying to recruit other recruits and some are listening to him.

No, this is simply not at all what I'm talking. I understand Peppers (grew up a fan) and Hand and all of the other guys from previous classes I listed. I understand Michigan landing kids who they get to visit. I understand recruiting. I understand logic.

I'm talking about the pervasive strong early interest from guys who are just finishing their sophomore/junior years. What gets them to have the initial buy in? Maybe it's just Hoke selling well and jumping in early. But I doubt it... I'm much more inclined to the basketball/Fab 5 30 for 30/other theories about what gives Michigan "swag" than to believe it's simply a good recruiter making a good first impression. There are plenty of great recruiters, big stadiums, good educations, etc. to be had and for teams that have been far more relevant to the national football landscape over the past decade and who play in a conference that doesn't suck where the weather isn't horrid.

Again, I get how Michigan recruits really well because I also get how Notre Dame and Ohio State manage to recruit well and Michigan is really a blend of those two schools on most levels. I just scratch my head at the oodles of kids who seem to be all in for Michigan from around the country at such a young age and who haven't taken their visits and such... especially coming off an 8-5 season.

 

[Emcee77]

What gets them to have the initial buy in? Maybe it's just Hoke selling well and jumping in early. But I doubt it... I'm much more inclined to the basketball/Fab 5 30 for 30/other theories about what gives Michigan "swag" than to believe it's simply a good recruiter making a good first impression. There are plenty of great recruiters, big stadiums, good educations, etc. to be had and for teams that have been far more relevant to the national football landscape over the past decade and who play in a conference that doesn't suck where the weather isn't horrid.

Again, I get how Michigan recruits really well because I also get how Notre Dame and Ohio State manage to recruit well and Michigan is really a blend of those two schools on most levels. I just scratch my head at the oodles of kids who seem to be all in for Michigan from around the country at such a young age and who haven't taken their visits and such... especially coming off an 8-5 season.

Yes, many good points in here, especially the bolded. We can give Hoke and Mattison a lot of credit, but we shouldn't give them all the credit. There is something about the Michigan brand that is just attractive to people, and I don't really get why. For some mysterious reason people just get excited about Michigan.

I grew up with a lot of people who were huge Michigan fans, although they didn't live anywhere near Michigan and didn't know anyone who went to school there. And these aren't the type of people to be impressed by tradition. I truly don't get what they like about Michigan. But whatever attracts people like that to Michigan is helping Michigan out in recruiting every cycle.

 

[FearTheBeard]

I think itd be sick if they did a 30 for 30 on the history of Notre Dame football. On another note, how long is Hoke going to last at Michigan? I mean recruiting good is great and all but i would think being stuck in the shadow of Ohio State will get old quickly.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think itd be sick if they did a 30 for 30 on the history of Notre Dame football. On another note, how long is Hoke going to last at Michigan? I mean recruiting good is great and all but i would think being stuck in the shadow of Ohio State will get old quickly.

Hoke's a lifer. Only way he leaves is holding a pink slip.

 

[Pachuco]

Hoke's a lifer. Only way he leaves is holding a pink slip.

Or gives his best CW impression?

 

[FearTheBeard]

Hoke's a lifer. Only way he leaves is holding a pink slip.

I agree but if he cant get over Ohio State do you think the school will cut ties or just stick it out long term? IMO as long as Urbans still there Michigan will be one step behind.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I agree but if he cant get over Ohio State do you think the school will cut ties or just stick it out long term? IMO as long as Urbans still there Michigan will be one step behind.

I generally agree with that, but as long as they hold onto Mattison and keep pulling in elite recruiting classes, they're going to be too good defensively to not win their fair share against the Buckeyes.

 

[FLDomer]

Hoke's a lifer. Only way he leaves is holding a pink slip and a fork lift hauling his rather rotund a$$.

fixed it

 

[Wolverine1997]

Speaking of Michigan recruits, I feel hip, yo:

"Drop it" Remix Torion Ft J-reall (Audio) - YouTube (Jabrill Peppers)

 

[koonja]

I agree but if he cant get over Ohio State do you think the school will cut ties or just stick it out long term? IMO as long as Urbans still there Michigan will be one step behind.

Urban will be gone before Hoke. So there's no reason they'll continuously lose to OSU, especially the way they're recruiting, which is at an elite level.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Speaking of Michigan recruits, I feel hip, yo:

Look who's back from vacation! Your rep bar's a little sunburned. Wild times down at Playa del Gnomo, eh?

 

[Wolverine1997]

Look who's back from vacation! Your rep bar's a little sunburned. Wild times down at Playa del Gnomo, eh?

We had subs. It was crazy.

 

[NDinMich]

Speaking of Michigan recruits, I feel hip, yo:

"Drop it" Remix Torion Ft J-reall (Audio) - YouTube (Jabrill Peppers)

 

[Wolverine1997]

Maybe the interwebs have changed but since when do you read a YouTube video?

 

[NDinMich]

Maybe the interwebs have changed but since when do you read a YouTube video?

How's this?

 

[TomHaverford]

Urban will be gone before Hoke. So there's no reason they'll continuously lose to OSU, especially the way they're recruiting, which is at an elite level.

I agree with this. Hoke will stay at Michigan until he retires. Urban has already put year 1 at OSU, he's got 4, maybe 5 years left tops. It's just what he does.

 

[LoveThee]

Speaking of Michigan recruits, I feel hip, yo:

"Drop it" Remix Torion Ft J-reall (Audio) - YouTube (Jabrill Peppers)

I especially enjoy the comments on that video:

Speaking of Dropping it, Michigan only graduates 47% of its black football players. source, Time Magazine. The College Football Top 25 – As Ranked By Academics

And the reply from the UM fan is golden:

They don't come to get an education, they come to play football, the law requires them to play 3 years of college for a shot at the next level.