All Things SkunkBear

[ab2cmiller]

CB Terrence Talbot is leaving U of M, this puts Michigan at 25 spots for this class and two remaining.

What is the consensus of the two that UM fans want? Treadwell and Green?

 

[IrishLax]

Hoke has done a really great job of quietly flushing out some of the sucky recruits from the Rodriguez era. Posada, Talbot, etc. *I am in no at all way saying he's like a Saban actually forcing kids out* Just that he has done a good job of roster management. I get the gut feeling he's just very direct with kids "the way you are currently playing, you will never see the field here" or "you really don't fit what we want to do at your position." Seems like a blunt kind of guy every time I've heard him talk.

 

[beryirish]

Hoke has done a really great job of quietly flushing out some of the sucky recruits from the Rodriguez era. Posada, Talbot, etc. *I am in no at all way saying he's like a Saban actually forcing kids out* Just that he has done a good job of roster management. I get the gut feeling he's just very direct with kids "the way you are currently playing, you will never see the field here" or "you really don't fit what we want to do at your position." Seems like a blunt kind of guy every time I've heard him talk.

nothing says you are the suckiest suck suck that ever sucked quite like this.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Hoke has done a really great job of quietly flushing out some of the sucky recruits from the Rodriguez era. Posada, Talbot, etc. *I am in no at all way saying he's like a Saban actually forcing kids out* Just that he has done a good job of roster management. I get the gut feeling he's just very direct with kids "the way you are currently playing, you will never see the field here" or "you really don't fit what we want to do at your position." Seems like a blunt kind of guy every time I've heard him talk.

I wonder how many kids at ND was told the same thing, but I'm assuming that almost all of them choose to stay to get their ND degree. When one of your main recruiting pitches is the value of a ND degree, I would think that many would stay, even if it meant becoming the water boy.

 

[beryirish]

I wonder how many kids at ND was told the same thing, but I'm assuming that almost all of them choose to stay to get their ND degree. When one of your main recruiting pitches is the value of a ND degree, I would think that many would stay, even if it meant becoming the water boy.

Rees???.....fingers crossed

 

[NDdomer2]

Hoke has done a really great job of quietly flushing out some of the sucky recruits from the Rodriguez era. Posada, Talbot, etc. *I am in no at all way saying he's like a Saban actually forcing kids out* Just that he has done a good job of roster management. I get the gut feeling he's just very direct with kids "the way you are currently playing, you will never see the field here" or "you really don't fit what we want to do at your position." Seems like a blunt kind of guy every time I've heard him talk.

My offensive coord. always told me they could make someone quit if they wanted to, and they did. Lots and lots and lots of early morning running will question your dedication. Some say fuk it, some stick it out.

 

[Irish#1]

Hoke has done a really great job of quietly flushing out some of the sucky recruits from the Rodriguez era. Posada, Talbot, etc. *I am in no at all way saying he's like a Saban actually forcing kids out* Just that he has done a good job of roster management. I get the gut feeling he's just very direct with kids "the way you are currently playing, you will never see the field here" or "you really don't fit what we want to do at your position." Seems like a blunt kind of guy every time I've heard him talk.

I followed Hoke pretty close while he was at Ball State. While he had pretty good teams, people don't realize just how good of a job he did there. BSU football has never had strong support from the administration, yet he found ways to get players, get them to reach their potential and to get the fan base back up. Look at them now, back where they were before he came. When he got the Michigan job I knew beating them was going to get a lot harder than it already was.

 

[NDdomer2]

I followed Hoke pretty close while he was at Ball State. While he had pretty good teams, people don't realize just how good of a job he did there. BSU football has never had strong support from the administration, yet he found ways to get players, get them to reach their potential and to get the fan base back up. Look at them now, back where they were before he came. When he got the Michigan job I knew beating them was going to get a lot harder than it already was.

He also had a pretty damn good qb while at Ball State, which is about all it takes to win the MAC.

 

[NDhoosier]

Agreed, Nate Davis with a good run game that BSU usually has can turn a lot of stuff around.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

What is the consensus of the two that UM fans want? Treadwell and Green?

I think most fans hope it's Treadwell and Green, but I'm most concerned about just getting Treadwell. I think the O-Line that is being recruited will make most RBs look better than they are.

 

[Irish#1]

He also had a pretty damn good qb while at Ball State, which is about all it takes to win the MAC.

Davis was the centerpiece, but he had several good players surrounding him. Hoke also did very well in the short time he was at SDS.

 

[NDdomer2]

Davis was the centerpiece, but he had several good players surrounding him. Hoke also did very well in the short time he was at SDS.

As do all good teams, but lets look at the MAC in the recent years. The team that has won has always had a QB get drafted. If I had to guess those several good players surrounding him are doing something else with their lives.

 

[NDinL.A.]

As do all good teams, but lets look at the MAC in the recent years. The team that has won has always had a QB get drafted. If I had to guess those several good players surrounding him are doing something else with their lives.

If that was a one time deal, I'd get it. But then he went to San Diego State and turned them around. And then he went to Michigan, w/ DickRod's players that didn't fit his system, and he killed it there last year AND he's killing it recruiting. So say it's Nate Davis, say it's Denard, say whatever, but the bottom line is he's gotten it done and he's getting it done. Can't hate on the job he has done as a coach...

 

[jimmymac]

I don't even care about the effects on the recruits, we have a good class now, I just wanna beat them sooo bad. Noone will be more fired up tho than Manti.

 

[NDPhilly]

I think Michigan might get Derrick Green. OSU said no to him and Clemson just filled up. ****.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

If that was a one time deal, I'd get it. But then he went to San Diego State and turned them around. And then he went to Michigan, w/ DickRod's players that didn't fit his system, and he killed it there last year AND he's killing it recruiting. So say it's Nate Davis, say it's Denard, say whatever, but the bottom line is he's gotten it done and he's getting it done. Can't hate on the job he has done as a coach...

The test for Hoke is this year and next. I knew him at UofT, not well personally, but his body of work. He is a solid guy, but I am not sold on all of his organizational and leadership skills. We will see how year two and three goes.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

We really need to do something like the BBQ that UM does.

 

[phillyirish]

I think Michigan might get Derrick Green. OSU said no to him and Clemson just filled up. ****.

Why would OSU say no to a 5 star running back? Clemson too-- unless they just have all their money tied up elsewhere.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

The test for Hoke is this year and next. I knew him at UofT, not well personally, but his body of work. He is a solid guy, but I am not sold on all of his organizational and leadership skills. We will see how year two and three goes.

This year will be a test, but not one I would measure Hoke on. Michigan still has depth issues from attrition during the richrod era, I think they're at 78-80 scholarship athletes but I could be wrong. Injuries and fourth quarter depth will play too big a role to pin the season on Hoke's leadership skills, but judging off last year I think they're solid there.

 

[johnnykillz]

Why would OSU say no to a 5 star running back? Clemson too-- unless they just have all their money tied up elsewhere.

Clemon is broke.

Fresh out the cash.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This year will be a test, but not one I would measure Hoke on. Michigan still has depth issues from attrition during the richrod era, I think they're at 78-80 scholarship athletes but I could be wrong. Injuries and fourth quarter depth will play too big a role to pin the season on Hoke's leadership skills, but judging off last year I think they're solid there.

That is exactly my point. Weis had a mediocre recruiting class, then a numero uno, type, and his first two years he hit BCS paydirt, but he couldn't escape Ty's slothfull recruiting, and it was all downhill from there. That is specifically why I said we need to look at the next two years. Especially if all or much of the negative recruiting rumors are true about Michigan and OSU. Seems to me, that affectes the character of your recruits severely.

Finally, who else would this year be a test of? Everybody characterizes Hoke as being able to do more with less; not to argue, but I don't see that in his character.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

That is exactly my point. Weis had a mediocre recruiting class, then a numero uno, type, and his first two years he hit BCS paydirt, but he couldn't escape Ty's slothfull recruiting, and it was all downhill from there. That is specifically why I said we need to look at the next two years. Especially if all or much of the negative recruiting rumors are true about Michigan and OSU. Seems to me, that affectes the character of your recruits severely.

Finally, who else would this year be a test of? Everybody characterizes Hoke as being able to do more with less; not to argue, but I don't see that in his character.

Why do you not see him doing more with less? Turning programs like Ball State and SDSU around is exactly that. If Michigan is competitive this year, he's doing more with less. If Michigan has the same season as last, he will have achieved his first miracle on the road to Saint hood.

He and his staff have already proved they are fantastic at player development, adapting to the personal around them, and recruiting ninjas. As Michigan fan, it's really hard not to get behind a guy like Hoke.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Because a much lesser defensive assistant that took over the Univ of Tol program named Amstutz with a quarterback named Gradkowski ruled the MAC, moreso that Brady. Until Gradkowski and the OC left, Amstutz was on track to be the winningest MAC coach of all times.

In football, lightening can strike three times.

Hoke could have been riding last year off Denard's aura. The ball never once bounced the wrong direction. Notice his standing around, goal line touchdown against the Irish. Almost every game something like that happend once or more for Denard last year; even in losing efforts they happened.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'm standing somewhere in the middle between Bogs and GoBlue on this. My eyes see not this year but the next as a test of Hoke. Then, for the first time, he will not have The Denard, who messes up EVERY DCs game plans and tilts the field. Coach Hoke will then show how well he and his staff create a flat-playing-field offense. He may do astoundingly well, he may flub. No one knows. The team should function fairly well because he, like all smart coaches [including ours], is loading the lines.

Michigan could turn into an old-style mauler-type team in the image of 20th century Michigan [which would be a mistake if they are really aiming high], or Hoke could show some creativity in trying to bring them into the 21st century. Say what you want, that was what Rodriguez was trying to do. And, his offenses DID do that. Can Hoke become a muted Rodriguez with a competent speed-oriented defense?? That question will be answered not this year, but somewhat in the following two years.

Regardless, it is my belief that Michigan has the personality in the current coach that it wants [irrationally --- "personality" should have little or nothing to do with keeping or firing coaches unless it's WAY out of line]. Thus I believe that without some unexpected total collapse of coaching competency, Hoke is it for years to come. His emphasis on line play will get him 8 wins in mediocre years, and that will sustain him. 8 wins for Michigan, by the way, is always easier than 8 wins for Notre Dame.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Because a much lesser defensive assistant that took over the Univ of Tol program named Amstutz with a quarterback named Gradkowski ruled the MAC, moreso that Brady. Until Gradkowski and the OC left, Amstutz was on track to be the winningest MAC coach of all times.

In football, lightening can strike three times.

Hoke could have been riding last year off Denard's aura. The ball never once bounced the wrong direction. Notice his standing around, goal line touchdown against the Irish. Almost every game something like that happend once or more for Denard last year; even in losing efforts they happened.

Bogs, you're one of the most, if not the most, positive-thinking ND fans on here. Sometimes to the point of not being able to see the bad in Notre Dame players and coaches, all due respect.

But put it this way - if Hoke had done what he did in the past and THEN came to ND and won us a BCS game in his first year after having to win with another coach's players who didn't even come close to fitting his system (including turning around that atrocious defense), AND recruited insanely, you would be singing his praises off the peaks of Mt. Everest. Seriously, you know you would. So what the Mich fan is saying isn't hyperbole at all. At this point in his career, Hoke has done nothing but show that he is a very good coach, perhaps even great. I don;t see how anyone can deny that, or even put a few 'yeah buts' in there.

Now, his career isn't over of course, so he still has lots to prove. But right now, dude is straight ballin'...can't deny it.

 

[johnnykillz]

I think Hoke is benefiting from RR's offense.

They cut RR'S too soon, or not, and Hoke took RR's team to a BCS bowl. Lol.

So sad.

Hoke did nothing to change offense. He even used Denard the same way. Remember his less scrambling comments from last year/less carries.

Early 90's flashback word: NOT!

 

[woolybug25]

I'm standing somewhere in the middle between Bogs and GoBlue on this. My eyes see not this year but the next as a test of Hoke. Then, for the first time, he will not have The Denard, who messes up EVERY DCs game plans and tilts the field. Coach Hoke will then show how well he and his staff create a flat-playing-field offense. He may do astoundingly well, he may flub. No one knows. The team should function fairly well because he, like all smart coaches [including ours], is loading the lines.

Rule of 3.....


I knew you would come around, OMM.

 

[Irish#1]

Hoke may or may not have benefited from RR players, but that's a sign of a good coach. Adapting to the players you have, rather then trying to make the players adapt to your style. I would imagine Hoke will make some changes to his offense as he gets his kids on board and RR's graduate and/or leave.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Bogs, you're one of the most, if not the most, positive-thinking ND fans on here. Sometimes to the point of not being able to see the bad in Notre Dame players and coaches, all due respect.

But put it this way - if Hoke had done what he did in the past and THEN came to ND and won us a BCS game in his first year after having to win with another coach's players who didn't even come close to fitting his system (including turning around that atrocious defense), AND recruited insanely, you would be singing his praises off the peaks of Mt. Everest. Seriously, you know you would. So what the Mich fan is saying isn't hyperbole at all. At this point in his career, Hoke has done nothing but show that he is a very good coach, perhaps even great. I don;t see how anyone can deny that, or even put a few 'yeah buts' in there.

Now, his career isn't over of course, so he still has lots to prove. But right now, dude is straight ballin'...can't deny it.

But I did! I thought Charlie Weis was the second coming. I already said that. And his resume was flawed too. This is the analogy. Not the specific resume experience; the walking into a perfect setting to maximize initially, and giving all credit to the head coach.

Now, Johnny makes the tip of the point. What RichRod left on offense, (Denard) was exactly what Hoke needed and allowed him to excell. Normaly I would agree 100 % with Mike and Johnny about year three, but this is entirely about the aura factor. I have talked to more people with whom I agree that three to five wins, which would have precluded the VT win, were how shall I say? Luck. Odds are they won't have the luck this year. If they don't, how will they respond. Normally, year three says a lot; this is why I included year two. It shows something extra, just a little different look. An experiment if you will.

Now ND, I feel a bit dogged in general over the last two or three days. But I feel as if you are following a little close. I agree with you some, considering you don't know me. In fact, I identified problems with Molnar, Hinton, and Warriner before most. I had a problem with certain 12 recruits. I thought Decker and Darby would wander. I commented on Darby's 90 some percent committed comment. Never had any use for Lynch. I think I am incredibly perseptive, but also very gung ho. Sometimes to my detriment as you have noted. But that is exactly why so many that have really known me, say that I am the first one they would have wanted to take into a fight, thirty-five years later.

I have four kids under ten bothering me, so I am making the best I can in posting. My pro ND stance is because I want to remain connected to sports in some meaningful way. I am so jaded with the cheating, etc., if it weren't ND, I am not sure it would be anything. So maybe that is why I put a little extra umpfh into it.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

I think Hoke is benefiting from RR's offense.

They cut RR'S too soon, or not, and Hoke took RR's team to a BCS bowl. Lol.

So sad.

Hoke did nothing to change offense. He even used Denard the same way. Remember his less scrambling comments from last year/less carries.

Early 90's flashback word: NOT!

Actually, they did change the offence....for the bad. In the beginning of the season (including most of the ND game) they tried to go 80-90% from under center instead of shotgun. After figuring out that you can't fit a square peg in round hole the coaching staff evolved and moved to more of a spread game plan. Something RR could learn from....2008