A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[GATTACA!]

Just did some reading on the four (five?) potential scripts/pilots/prequels that HBO is working on for after GoT ends.

They are trying to find one script/pilot that they can turn into a series, but could do more than that. Could do some/all as "limited" series, rather than a long-haul thing like the original series.

It's official that "Robert's Rebellion" and "Dunk and Egg" are NOT on the table for the potential new shows. GRRM nixed Robert's Rebellion, saying that the tale will basically be fully told, and all the secrets revealed, by the time ASoIaF ends.

He also nixed Dunk and Egg, saying that he has 7-10 more D&E novellas planned, and he doesn't want to run into the same problem with a Dunk and Egg series that he's dealing with now, aka he doesn't want the show to catch and pass his writing.

HBO peeps hinted that some or all of the scripts being considered aren't even in Westeros. My greatest fear is that they take an obscure entry from "World of Ice and Fire" about an unknown part of Essos, or even Sothoryos or Ulthos, and completely invent something with zero ties to the rest of the world.

My hope is that we see a series set about Valyria, either at it's height or just before and ending with the Doom, or else a series about the Targaryens leaving Valyria and settling on Dragonstone. That would leave later seasons to depict the Conquest.

Hard to imagine they could budget to depict this, though, if they struggle to budget dragon appearances in GoT:

Who knows, maybe they could budget the Conquest, and thus GGI All of the Dragons, for a limited series.


Also of note while I was wiki'ing... I just realized that all evidence of Valyria from the books leads us to believe that the ruins are inaccessible, and that the smoking sea claims all that try to navigate its waters. Even Euron is met with skepticism when he tries to say that he's visited the ruins. And yet, in the show, Tyrion and crew sail through the ruins with no problem, right?

Is that a disconnect, or simply changing the canon of the setting a bit for show purposes?

Blackfyre Rebellion FTW!

 

[woolybug25]

So here is my fearless prediction. We are going to see Rhaegar Targaryan this season. It won't just be a cameo ala Lyanna Stark last season. It will be actual scenes with dialogue. I know there have been rumors of Devin Oliver being cast for it (perfect casting, imo), but that isn't even why I think it will happen. My reasoning is as follows.

The missing element from the show is the storyline of "The Prince That Was Promised", which is a critical part of the story. Hell, the books are "The Song of Ice and Fire" for crying out loud. It's been downplayed in the show and honestly probably kinda confusing for people that haven't read the books. But Melisandre clearly told Davos that Jon is TPTWP. Rhaegar's entire motivation in life after he learned of the prophecy was to find and produce the three heads of the dragon and fulfill the prophecy. That's why he pursued Lyanna, as he saw her as a key to unlocking the Song of Ice and Fire. So they HAVE TO show Rhaegar and this part of the storyline, as it's critical to the story arc.

Amirite?

 

[IrishLion]

U iz rite.

That's the only thing that concerns me with these last two seasons being limited... if they try to introduce a new "big bad" other than the Night's King, or try to turn Euron into a formidable obstacle for too long, the show will feel overly-saturated while simultaneously falling short of the conclusion that we/it deserves.

We NEED to hear why Jon and Dany linking up is so important. And like you said, it's even more important for people who haven't read or researched the background.

Bran is going to warg into a Heart Tree, and/or Warg into Jon's DNA somehow, and will thus give us the scenes that include Rhaegar and perhaps others telling us why Ice and Fire is so important.

Jon already knows that the Night's King needs to be stopped. That's already openly displayed as his motivation. What needs to happen in this next season is that Dany needs to be convinced that her conquest needs to go hand-in-hand with stopping the Night's King, and we need to see WHY that is the case. Rheagar and Ned flashbacks are the only things that can show that.

 

[phork]

Season 7 finale is going to be 81 minutes. Longest episode to date!

 

[IrishLion]

The 5 Disappointing Ways Game Of Thrones Could Possibly End

I've gotta say, their description of an all-encompassing battle royale sounds pretty enjoyable:

If any show has earned the right to just go absolutely insane with some balls-out, crazy-ass ultrareckoning in the final season, it's this one. Dragons fighting undead giants, long-established characters decapitating the fuck out of each other left and right, direwolves going behind White Walkers' knees and another direwolf pushing it so it falls overtop the first wolf and they both laugh at it -- you name it.

An all-out Westeros Royal Rumble where any character could die at any time would have the potential to be the most amazing, ridiculous, nerve-wracking battle scene in TV or movie history. There won't be an opportunity for something like this again for a long, long time, so let's just go all-out.

 

[woolybug25]

Do I remember the writers once saying that GRRM told them how the story ends?


I recall that for some reason. Which would be surprising, as he seems like he doesn't know where he's going with it now.

 

[IrishLion]

Do I remember the writers once saying that GRRM told them how the story ends?


I recall that for some reason. Which would be surprising, as he seems like he doesn't know where he's going with it now.

I think he did. He knows where he wants to go for the ending, he just doesn't know how to get there and tie everything up at this point.

Save us HBO, you're our only hope.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

New Game of Thrones season 7 footage shows epic Lannister v Targaryen war | Metro News

Nothing earth shattering, and we all assumed this would play out before the battle for humanity (aka the battle of Ice and Fire) but it's now been fully leaked.

 

[koonja]

Does anyone have a summary/article that can catch someone up on the story line through all 6 seasons to date? Asking about the TV series, not the books, because I'm not a real man.

 

[IrishLion]

Does anyone have a summary/article that can catch someone up on the story line through all 6 seasons to date? Asking about the TV series, not the books, because I'm not a real man.

google

 

[koonja]

Does anyone have a summary/article that can catch someone up on the story line through all 6 seasons to date? Asking about the TV series, not the books, because I'm not a real man.

google

Brilliant. So this is a really good summary. Only complaint is it'd be nice if they had the character's pictures they were referencing:

‘Game of Thrones': Everything You Need to Know to Catch Up

 

[mgriff]

Does anyone have a summary/article that can catch someone up on the story line through all 6 seasons to date? Asking about the TV series, not the books, because I'm not a real man.

HOW DARE YOU ASK THAT IN THE BOOK THREAD! Go to the Game of Thrones thread with the rest of the plebes!

 

[ACamp1900]

Does anyone have a summary/article that can catch someone up on the story line through all 6 seasons to date? Asking about the TV series, not the books, because I'm not a real man.

Everyone with an ounce of good in them had that good ripped out along with their intestines.

There, you're caught up.

 

[NOLAIrish]

Do I remember the writers once saying that GRRM told them how the story ends?


I recall that for some reason. Which would be surprising, as he seems like he doesn't know where he's going with it now.

Yep, they did say he told them the ending, at least in broad strokes:

Link and Link.

Since then, though, two things happened:

1) The show passed the books
2) Readers puzzled out what appears to very clearly be the major reveals leading up to the ending.

After that, there's some indication that he started casting about for other options for endings, none of which really fit given the breadcrumbs he's left so far, leading to the bout of writer's block he's noted over the past few years (there are other theories about his slow pace, some of which are discussed in this thread). To me, that's the most plausible explanation for what's going on with the books. He feels, appropriately, that he deserves to "own" his ending, which isn't really possible if the book and the show wind up at the same destination and the show gets there years earlier, especially if fans have already sussed it out. So he tried to alter the book ending to avoid being scooped by the show he inspired, and it's just not going well.

In the past, he's compared his writing style to gardening, with his role more to prune the story as it grows, rather than actively designing and developing it. He's said he often doesn't have much of an idea of where the story is going as it develops. I don't think that kind of writing style -- where you just sort of guide a general flow rather than writing to a particular purpose -- lends itself to course corrections.

 

[IrishLion]

It would be hilarious to me if GRRM decided to just keep Jon dead in the books. People would read and read and read, and then get to the epilogue of the finale still waiting for Jon to come back, thinking the epilogue is about Jon returning with the knowledge of his heritage (somehow) and striking out to take his throne from Dany... but he just doesn't. He's gone forever.

I can only imagine how "ice and fire" would be resolved at that point.

I also have a few questions concerning the story and where it actually seems to be going, though.

1. If Jon is Ice and Fire, does that mean he is ALSO Azor Ahai?

2. If he IS Azor Ahai, how will he forge Lightbringer? Because if half of the prophecy is true about the Prince that was Promised, then the other half about his sword should probably be legit, as well. Does Ygritte's long-dead corpse get reanimated when the Wall is breached by the Night's King? Does he then thrust Longclaw through her cold, dead heart, thus forging Longclaw Lightbringer?

3. If he is NOT Azor Ahai, could somebody else still be the Prince That Was Promised? If so, who is it? Jaime? He's still on the hook to kill Cersei, and it seems destiny that he uses Oathkeeper to do the deed.

 

[woolybug25]

It would be hilarious to me if GRRM decided to just keep Jon dead in the books. People would read and read and read, and then get to the epilogue of the finale still waiting for Jon to come back, thinking the epilogue is about Jon returning with the knowledge of his heritage (somehow) and striking out to take his throne from Dany... but he just doesn't. He's gone forever.

I can only imagine how "ice and fire" would be resolved at that point.

I also have a few questions concerning the story and where it actually seems to be going, though.

1. If Jon is Ice and Fire, does that mean he is ALSO Azor Ahai?

2. If he IS Azor Ahai, how will he forge Lightbringer? Because if half of the prophecy is true about the Prince that was Promised, then the other half about his sword should probably be legit, as well. Does Ygritte's long-dead corpse get reanimated when the Wall is breached by the Night's King? Does he then thrust Longclaw through her cold, dead heart, thus forging Longclaw Lightbringer?

3. If he is NOT Azor Ahai, could somebody else still be the Prince That Was Promised? If so, who is it? Jaime? He's still on the hook to kill Cersei, and it seems destiny that he uses Oathkeeper to do the deed.

1) imo... yes

2) your guess is as good as mine. There seemingly don't appear to be much as far as breadcrumbs on this. Would be nice to hear some theories. Longclaw seems possible.

3) It would be ironic if oathkeeper was used by a man that has broke his sacred oath for the second time (kingslayer)

 

[IrishLion]

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Thoros still kickin'

Seems like they want Littlefinger to be the "Little Big Bad" this season. Probably gonna drum up some shit where he's trying to use Sansa to sabotage the Stark/Targ alliance that's coming

Jon Snow addressing Dany about their families uniting against a common enemy? Or perhaps a Greyjoy? Maybe even a Lannister?

Drogon with a stare down moment on the battlefield. Badass.

A group of shapes, forming a defensive circle in the snow. I think we've seen that twice now. Who is it?

Jon dispatches an enemy with a sword thrust, and then stares at more enemies. Who are they? If they were wights, they'd be swarming him.

 

[woolybug25]

Thoros still kickin'

dope... also.... Beric Dondarrion is seen holding a sword on fire... Lightbringer?

Seems like they want Littlefinger to be the "Little Big Bad" this season. Probably gonna drum up some shit where he's trying to use Sansa to sabotage the Stark/Targ alliance that's coming

I actually think this is how the show may let Jon know about his heritage. There are several teasers that show Jon, Littlefinger and Sansa in the crypt again. One where Jon grabs Littlefinger by the throat in the crypt. My theory is that Littlefinger tells Sansa the true story of Lyanna/Rhaegar as reasoning of why she is the true heir to Winterfell. Maybe even why she should be on the Iron Throne, after all the Starks are the First Men, and she is the rightful heir to the banner Stark.

Jon Snow addressing Dany about their families uniting against a common enemy? Or perhaps a Greyjoy? Maybe even a Lannister?

My guess would be Dany. If you look close, the scene of her walking in a room is the king's chamber. They have shown several scenes of her in the castle. Maybe even too many, imo.

Drogon with a stare down moment on the battlefield. Badass.

The dragon scenes this season will be lit.

A group of shapes, forming a defensive circle in the snow. I think we've seen that twice now. Who is it?

I was thinking that is a small group with Jon behind the wall?

Jon dispatches an enemy with a sword thrust, and then stares at more enemies. Who are they? If they were wights, they'd be swarming him.

No clue. I would be interested in theories on this one.

 

[IrishLion]

No clue. I would be interested in theories on this one.

It could also just be allies that he's turning to address after dispatching the last wight in a battle against Night's King forces.

 

[phork]

I actually think this is how the show may let Jon know about his heritage. There are several teasers that show Jon, Littlefinger and Sansa in the crypt again. One where Jon grabs Littlefinger by the throat in the crypt. My theory is that Littlefinger tells Sansa the true story of Lyanna/Rhaegar as reasoning of why she is the true heir to Winterfell. Maybe even why she should be on the Iron Throne, after all the Starks are the First Men, and she is the rightful heir to the banner Stark.

I don't think thats how Jon finds out. I believe Bran will get to that. This might tie in later in regards to that.

My guess would be Dany. If you look close, the scene of her walking in a room is the king's chamber. They have shown several scenes of her in the castle. Maybe even too many, imo.

Probably Dany. If you have read any of the spoiler content there is a pretty synopsis of each episodes breakdown by shooting location and who is present.

No clue. I would be interested in theories on this one.

While certainly the wights are brainless killers, they are still controlled by the Night's King. And in that regard perhaps he has them hold off attacking that creates dramatic pause while something happens to spring Jon free. (Again dipping into spoiler territory)

 

[Emcee77]

The Swords Are Drawn - Not A Blog

GRRM is testy about some of the recent reports on his writing progress.
In a recent blog post, after discussing his forthcoming book about the history of the Targaryen kings, he goes on to say the following.

And, yes, I know you all want to know about THE WINDS OF WINTER too. I've seen some truly weird reports about WOW on the internet of late, by 'journalists' who make their stories up out of whole cloth. I don't know which story is more absurd, the one that says the book is finished and I've been sitting on it for some nefarious reason, or the one that says I have no pages. Both 'reports' are equally false and equally moronic. I am still working on it, I am still months away (how many? good question), I still have good days and bad days, and that's all I care to say. Whether WINDS or the first volume of FIRE AND BLOOD will be the first to hit the bookstores is hard to say at this juncture, but I do think you will have a Westeros book from me in 2018... and who knows, maybe two. A boy can dream...

I am glad your fake history book is going well but ... I don't care?

 

[IrishLion]

JFC "a boy can dream" that he can get two books out in the next 16 months...

SIXTEEN MONTHS.

HE'S HAD SIX YEARS TO COMPLETE A MANUSCRIPT FOR WHICH HALF THE MATERIAL WAS (SUPPOSEDLY) ALREADY DONE.

 

[wizards8507]

***SHOW SPOILERS, INCLUDING LEAKS***














Three-headed dragon theory won't be happening in the show.

 

[woolybug25]

Put that in white font, bro.

 

[Emcee77]

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...agon-rider-night-king-bran-warg-zombie-dragon

Interesting stuff about the three dragon riders theory and whether last night's episode blows it up (possibly, but possibly not, the writer concludes).

 

[IrishLion]

Photos leaked of the Winterfell show set burning... That means Winterfell will burn again.

Does it get bathed in blue dragon fire during a battle with the Night King?
Does it get a Wildfire bath from Cersei's forces who travel North?

My theory is that the castle falls to the NK's forces, and Jon and Dany burn Winterfell on purpose to take down what they can of the NK's army as they retreat south. "Red Keep or Bust!"

 

[IrishLion]

Also, we've had several bogus "release dates" for Winds of Winter put out there in the past few years, but January '18 saw several different outlets report a potential release date in September '18.

One was an independent book seller, the other was a published "what to expect in '18" list. One even included a specific 9/6/18 date. Both have since been removed as "mistakes"...

Hopefully they were legit leaks, meaning GRRM's publisher finally has a final copy that is currently in the back-and-forth editing process, and they have a solid projected date that accounts for editing and printing.

 

[zelezo vlk]

An interesting theory: https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/8bks0u/what_are_some_theories_you_dont_necessarily/dx8dvd4

The lying POS Andals-theory for Got/Asoiaf. Basically everything we know about the history of Westeros is wrong. The timelines are wrong, historical events are wrong, everything is wrong, and there is a grand conspiracy within the faith of the seven and the maesters to keep up the charade.

Endgame? The faith of the seven is secretly worhipping the Others and it's all to bring about the end of the world and the final victory of the Many-Faced God. Valyrians (and the pre-Valyrians whatever they called themselves) were the good guys that throughout history have helped various societies to resist the forces of Ice and Darkness. Descended from the God On Earth through the Amethyst Empress their divine/fated role in the world is to fight the darkness. The Andals, as well as the Ghiscari and many other peoples are aligned with the nameless force/god/whatever that is the Many-faced God, represented as the Stranger in the Faith of the Seven, that is the only true god of that religion, while the other aspects are only there to make it more palpatable for the masses so that the Andals could indoctrinate their followers. They supress all magic and much ancient knowledge, along with the maesters, to make sure the world is not able to resist when the Others make their return.

It's all connected to ancient history and the Bloodstone Emperor and his Cult of Starry Wisdom from the Long Night. So, tl:dr: The Many-faced God is basically Satan and controls the Others. He is worshipped under many names in different cultures. The higher-ups in the Faith of the Seven and the Citadel are members of the Cult of Starry Wisdom and secretly worhsip the Many-faced God to bring about the end of the world.

The Andals are one of the villains of the "greater story", while the First Men and Valyrians are the good guys. Of course, it's probably not true. And Martin has said that the gods themselves wont make an appearence in the story, so we will likely never get concrete confirmation how "real" the various gods of Westeros are, and which gods in fact are the same gods under different names. The Andals are lying POS though. And it is heavily hinted at that there is an actual maester conspiracy to kill magic. And if the gods are real in that world, I'll eat my hat if the Stranger and the Many-faced God aren't one and the same and connected with the Others in some way.

 

[IrishLion]

The Citadel is absolutely suppressing magic and purposely ignoring everything that's happening in the North.

They act like they're brushing it off because it can't possibly be true, but they are actually hoping for the NK to sweep South so that they can show him that they have eliminated resistance as best they could, hopefully reaping rewards in his post-conquering hellscape.

The question: in the books, Jaqen Hgar has infiltrated the Citadel. Has he infiltrated the Citadel to foil their plans of suppression and to try and save the world? Or is he reinforcing them, ensuring word of the NK stays on the down-low, working as an agent of The Other?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

GRRM confirms no TWoW in 2018.

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