A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[GrangerIrish24]

how many episodes will this season be? do they know yet?

7

 

[wizards8507]

Add to the list, and we can get unreasonably hype together.

Zero hype. My enthusiasm for this series has completely gone to shit.

 

[phork]

There is a whole lot of spoilery stuff around the web. I could post, but you can google. It relates to time lines, episodes and whos in what shoots.

 

[IrishLax]

There is a whole lot of spoilery stuff around the web. I could post, but you can google. It relates to time lines, episodes and whos in what shoots.

Personally, I don't know why anyone would want to ruin the surprise like that. I avoid spoilers like the plague. I view it way different than playing the "theory" game.

 

[mgriff]

I won't post the production spoilers directly, but if you want them go to Watchers on the Wall | A Game of Thrones Community for Breaking News, Casting, and Commentary |

Where's the fucking book, George?!?!?!

 

[IrishLion]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">7.16.17 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoTS7?src=hash">#GoTS7</a> <a href="https://t.co/2Juyc5K7n2">pic.twitter.com/2Juyc5K7n2</a></p>— Game Of Thrones (@GameOfThrones) <a href="https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/847493457073422336">March 30, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Official promo for season 7.

Dany on a throne of rock? Dragonstone? They never showed Stannis on a throne, though.

Jon takes his place in the North.

Cersei sits upon her throne in the South, while revealing that Winter has reached King's Landing.

And then on top of it all, the Night's King makes his presence felt. Shit about to pop off.

 

[phork]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">7.16.17 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoTS7?src=hash">#GoTS7</a> <a href="https://t.co/2Juyc5K7n2">pic.twitter.com/2Juyc5K7n2</a></p>— Game Of Thrones (@GameOfThrones) <a href="https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/847493457073422336">March 30, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Official promo for season 7.

Dany on a throne of rock? Dragonstone? They never showed Stannis on a throne, though.

Jon takes his place in the North.

Cersei sits upon her throne in the South, while revealing that Winter has reached King's Landing.

And then on top of it all, the Night's King makes his presence felt. Shit about to pop off.

Some major season construction happening on reddit. Stiched together by Scene locations and timing of it all. Some crazy stuff headed our way if true.

 

[woolybug25]

Some major season construction happening on reddit. Stiched together by Scene locations and timing of it all. Some crazy stuff headed our way if true.

Do tell.

 

[phork]

Do tell.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/57w3yw/my_awayforthelads_season_7_spoiler_timeline/

 

[Emcee77]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/arts/television/hbo-game-of-thrones-spinoffs.html

eek. It's happening. Fingers crossed for Dunk and Egg.

But GRRM, get to work on finishing ASOIAF! Let the TV producers work out the spinoffs. You get in that writing chair and don't come out till you're finished.

 

[wizards8507]

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/george-r-r-martin-game-of-thrones-books/

The Song of Ice and Fire is not the Westerosi enchiridion any more. Martin’s story, the world he built, lives on TV. And now that HBO is cooking up spinoff shows based on the original, it’s official: The TV universe has eclipsed the books and become the Game of Thrones canon.

 

[IrishLion]

It's not canon until GRRM croaks while writing another bullshit Wildcards novel or doing some pointless blog about the NFL.

Once he dies before finishing his series, then everything's fair game. May the best scripts win.

 

[Emcee77]

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/george-r-r-martin-game-of-thrones-books/

What a great piece. I was thinking the same thing. According to reports, GRRM is actively involved in the spinoffs. So he's not even trying to prioritize finishing ASOIAF so he keeps control of that portion of his fictive world. And I'm sure I've cited in this thread that same passage of the New Yorker profile that the Wired author cited, where GRRM admits that he asks FANS for help remembering what he has already written. Or if I haven't, I'm sure I've cited the New Yorker profile more broadly, because what's striking if you read it is that, at the very least, GRRM really does not have a clear sense of how to get where he's going with ASOIAF. And you can't help but wonder if he even knows where he wants to go, let alone how to get there. It's pretty clear, just as the author of that Wired piece says, that "the world of Westeros is not a concrete thing— it’s still being built." If you look at it that way, however much we might want the books to come out because we have grown fond of GRRM's storytelling and stewardship of his story, there's nevertheless no real reason we shouldn't just enjoy the TV show representations for what they are, rather than wait impatiently and expectantly for the books that, we have to admit at this point, may never come. The TV show version of Westeros may be as "real" or "legitimate" as Westeros is going to get.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KuOXSa2ovog?ecver=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Emcee77]

That was creepier than anything in his books

 

[Emcee77]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-hbo-winds-of-winter?CMP=twt_books_b-gdnbooks

Just my opinion, but I don't think he is ever going to finish the books. He can't figure out how to draw the narrative to a close and he is subconsciously using these side projects as an excuse for avoiding ASOIAF.

 

[woolybug25]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...-hbo-winds-of-winter?CMP=twt_books_b-gdnbooks

Just my opinion, but I don't think he is ever going to finish the books. He can't figure out how to draw the narrative to a close and he is subconsciously using these side projects as an excuse for avoiding ASOIAF.

What's bullshit is that The World of Ice and Fire has enough history of Westoros to fill 20 prequels. What in the hell does he have left to write about in the history of Westoros?

I think you're on to something here. I'm starting to get in the same boat, that maybe he doesn't know the endgame. Maybe there's never been one in the first place.

 

[IrishLion]

What's bullshit is that The World of Ice and Fire has enough history of Westoros to fill 20 prequels. What in the hell does he have left to write about in the history of Westoros?

I think you're on to something here. I'm starting to get in the same boat, that maybe he doesn't know the endgame. Maybe there's never been one in the first place.

I have suspected that he DID have an endgame in mind, but as his work has grown, and as it's been adapted into live action, he's realizing that the endgame won't possibly live up to all of the narrative puzzles, secrets, Easter eggs, and revelations that he's built in.

He gave fans too long to figure things out. Now that the show has PROVEN that the fans have figured things out, he realizes that his story needs some new narrative "zing," but it's too late to add anything of great significance (unless he extends the series to 10 books? LOL).

He's stalling, because he doesn't know how to make a satisfying "big bad" with what he gave himself to work with, or at least he doesn't know how to make The Night's King a formidable enough enemy to produce a worthy climax.

And I have to admit that the show makes it work, because it has been consistent year-to-year, and the introduction of the Night's King as the "big bad" makes sense in the somewhat condensed plotline of the show, where the focus is clearly on Jon and Dany at this point, with a little bit of Cersei.

Contrast that to the books, where nearly all POV character essentially have the same amount of shine/focus... which means all characters need a satisfying and epic tie to the final showdown. But, the Night's King isn't even intro'd yet in the books, and so it's tough to see how he's going to give his characters the connections and resolutions that they deserve when he only has two books left to work with.

He built the plot too big, and painted himself into a corner. That's ironic, considering the series was planned for 3 books... and then 5... and now 7.

The show coming to an end will either see him give up totally, or announce that the series will be 9 books, where he full-well knows that he will die before he finishes.

 

[zelezo vlk]

He's just waiting until the right moment to release his books that reveal Ned Stark never died

 

[IrishLax]

I have suspected that he DID have an endgame in mind, but as his work has grown, and as it's been adapted into live action, he's realizing that the endgame won't possibly live up to all of the narrative puzzles, secrets, Easter eggs, and revelations that he's built in.

He gave fans too long to figure things out. Now that the show has PROVEN that the fans have figured things out, he realizes that his story needs some new narrative "zing," but it's too late to add anything of great significance (unless he extends the series to 10 books? LOL).

He's stalling, because he doesn't know how to make a satisfying "big bad" with what he gave himself to work with, or at least he doesn't know how to make The Night's King a formidable enough enemy to produce a worthy climax.

And I have to admit that the show makes it work, because it has been consistent year-to-year, and the introduction of the Night's King as the "big bad" makes sense in the somewhat condensed plotline of the show, where the focus is clearly on Jon and Dany at this point, with a little bit of Cersei.

Contrast that to the books, where nearly all POV character essentially have the same amount of shine/focus... which means all characters need a satisfying and epic tie to the final showdown. But, the Night's King isn't even intro'd yet in the books, and so it's tough to see how he's going to give his characters the connections and resolutions that they deserve when he only has two books left to work with.

He built the plot too big, and painted himself into a corner. That's ironic, considering the series was planned for 3 books... and then 5... and now 7.

The show coming to an end will either see him give up totally, or announce that the series will be 9 books, where he full-well knows that he will die before he finishes.

To me, he rather obviously quit writing once the show caught up to the books and has just been lying to everyone because to say "I'm never going to finish" would've ticked off his fan base. My problem isn't just that he isn't willing to finish the books, but that he's said he won't hand them off to anyone either... that the series is going to die with him. That makes him a huge asshole.

 

[IrishLion]

To me, he rather obviously quit writing once the show caught up to the books and has just been lying to everyone because to say "I'm never going to finish" would've ticked off his fan base. My problem isn't just that he isn't willing to finish the books, but that he's said he won't hand them off to anyone either... that the series is going to die with him. That makes him a huge asshole.

Deadspin has actually been gathering evidence for a while that he has ZERO pages, aside from the 5 or 6 preview chapters that he's released... and the problem is that all of the preview content was probably written alongside/just after he finished ADwD, so there's no evidence, at all, that he's actually written anything besides a general outline for TWoW.

 

[IrishLax]

Deadspin has actually been gathering evidence for a while that he has ZERO pages, aside from the 5 or 6 preview chapters that he's released... and the problem is that all of the preview content was probably written alongside/just after he finished ADwD, so there's no evidence, at all, that he's actually written anything besides a general outline for TWoW.

Correct. There's really not much evidence that he's written anything substantial at all in the past decade... books 4 and 5 were all basically parts of a 4th book he started writing in 2001. A Dance with Dragons was published in 2011 but the vast majority of the content was already finished in 2005 when they published A Feast For Crows. So he's basically written a handful of chapters since 2005 and that's it. Remember, the initial projection for A Dance with Dragons was 2006 and he only had to write a few chapters to wrap it up but didn't get it out the door until 2011.

It'd be nice for him to just be honest about it, but he's a major asshole.

 

[IrishLion]

Correct. There's really not much evidence that he's written anything substantial at all in the past decade... books 4 and 5 were all basically parts of a 4th book he started writing in 2001. A Dance with Dragons was published in 2011 but the vast majority of the content was already finished in 2005 when they published A Feast For Crows. So he's basically written a handful of chapters since 2005 and that's it. Remember, the initial projection for A Dance with Dragons was 2006 and he only had to write a few chapters to wrap it up but didn't get it out the door until 2011.

It'd be nice for him to just be honest about it, but he's a major asshole.

Damn, I hadn't even considered that. He's openly talked about how AFfC and the first half of ADwD were supposed to be one book, but by the time he was halfway through the content of what we know as ADwD, he realized it was too much, so he split the POV chapters and released the tight-knit POV's as AFfC...

The implication that he should have already been halfway through ADwD at that point is just absurd, considering the work he's released since then haha.

 

[IrishLax]

Damn, I hadn't even considered that. He's openly talked about how AFfC and the first half of ADwD were supposed to be one book, but by the time he was halfway through the content of what we know as ADwD, he realized it was too much, so he split the POV chapters and released the tight-knit POV's as AFfC...

The implication that he should have already been halfway through ADwD at that point is just absurd, considering the work he's released since then haha.

Yeah, it's really absurd. I'll see if I can find it... might've been on Deadspin that you mentioned... but basically someone put together a really detailed recap of GRRM's writing progress. The crux is that:
1. The first three books were part of a very cogent storyline. He knew where he was starting and where he was ending so cranked out masterpiees very quickly.
2. After that, he experimented with jumping forward 5 years specifically to avoid the shit he got bogged down in. But after a year of that, he considered it a failure and gave up.
3. He then restarted writing right where ASoS left off. The next "two" novels are basically plodding shit, and it took him forever to produce them.
4. He got done with ADwD, and realized that he'd just dedicated hundreds of pages to "two" books to effectively not even really get to the point he was going to skip ahead to.
5. At this point, he likely quit writing because he realized:
A. He was thousands of pages away from done.
B. All the endings had been guessed.
C. He would rather spend his remaining years attending events, working on film, and completing passion projects than toiling on something he doesn't know how to complete.

There's basically no evidence that he's written a single page of new, original source material since ADwD was published AND there's no evidence he intends to write anything else.

If he wasn't an asshole, he'd hand off ASOIAF to a ghost writer and just oversee the completion of the novels to fit his plot points. He's such a douchebag to lie to everyone about completing the books while not working on them at all.

 

[phork]

Man tell us how you really feel...

 

[IrishLion]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/giYeaKsXnsI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishLion]

Hype.

Dothraki fighting Lannisters on the open plains... an assault on Casterly Rock? Or just a battle on the march towards King's Landing?

Asha(Yara) and Ellaria Sand hooking up.

Arya in the cold North, heading towards her siblings.

Dragonstone looking dope as hell.

A weird zombie (White Walker?) hand coming out of a prison cell.

CLEGANEBOWL GETTING TEASED.

/Hype.

 

[ACamp1900]

Yeah, it's really absurd. I'll see if I can find it... might've been on Deadspin that you mentioned... but basically someone put together a really detailed recap of GRRM's writing progress. The crux is that:
1. The first three books were part of a very cogent storyline. He knew where he was starting and where he was ending so cranked out masterpiees very quickly.
2. After that, he experimented with jumping forward 5 years specifically to avoid the shit he got bogged down in. But after a year of that, he considered it a failure and gave up.
3. He then restarted writing right where ASoS left off. The next "two" novels are basically plodding shit, and it took him forever to produce them.

Just leaving it at number 3.. this is a big reason why I just clapped my hands on ASoIaF... it just FELT like he had a coherent, straight path he wanted to take it and just got lost somewhere and never righted it...

 

[IrishLion]

Just did some reading on the four (five?) potential scripts/pilots/prequels that HBO is working on for after GoT ends.

They are trying to find one script/pilot that they can turn into a series, but could do more than that. Could do some/all as "limited" series, rather than a long-haul thing like the original series.

It's official that "Robert's Rebellion" and "Dunk and Egg" are NOT on the table for the potential new shows. GRRM nixed Robert's Rebellion, saying that the tale will basically be fully told, and all the secrets revealed, by the time ASoIaF ends.

He also nixed Dunk and Egg, saying that he has 7-10 more D&E novellas planned, and he doesn't want to run into the same problem with a Dunk and Egg series that he's dealing with now, aka he doesn't want the show to catch and pass his writing.

HBO peeps hinted that some or all of the scripts being considered aren't even in Westeros. My greatest fear is that they take an obscure entry from "World of Ice and Fire" about an unknown part of Essos, or even Sothoryos or Ulthos, and completely invent something with zero ties to the rest of the world.

My hope is that we see a series set about Valyria, either at it's height or just before and ending with the Doom, or else a series about the Targaryens leaving Valyria and settling on Dragonstone. That would leave later seasons to depict the Conquest.

Hard to imagine they could budget to depict this, though, if they struggle to budget dragon appearances in GoT:

Who knows, maybe they could budget the Conquest, and thus CGI All of the Dragons, for a limited series.


Also of note while I was wiki'ing... I just realized that all evidence of Valyria from the books leads us to believe that the ruins are inaccessible, and that the smoking sea claims all that try to navigate its waters. Even Euron is met with skepticism when he tries to say that he's visited the ruins. And yet, in the show, Tyrion and crew sail through the ruins with no problem, right?

Is that a disconnect, or simply changing the canon of the setting a bit for show purposes?

 

[zelezo vlk]

.

He also nixed Dunk and Egg, saying that he has 7-10 more D&E novellas planned

Thanks for that, I really needed the laugh.

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