'22 CA WR C.J. Williams (Southern Cal Verbal)

[Wild Bill]

This isn’t 2012. One recruit will make little to no difference on the program.

Agree but this kid seems like he's the most physically able commit who is able to contribute next year and they could probably use his contribution if there are issues with numbers that many expect.

 

[Irish Man3]

Agree but this kid seems like he's the most physically able commit who is able to contribute next year and they could probably use his contribution if there are issues with numbers that many expect.

Like 5* Jordan Johnson was? Skill position recruiting is a crap shoot. I'm not saying this kid won't do well, but this class doesn't crumble if he decides to stay home.

 

[Wild Bill]

Like 5* Jordan Johnson was? Skill position recruiting is a crap shoot. I'm not saying this kid won't do well, but this class doesn't crumble if he decides to stay home.

Yes, that's where the "agree" part of my response is relevant to the OP.

 

[CHIDomer9]

Like 5* Jordan Johnson was? Skill position recruiting is a crap shoot. I'm not saying this kid won't do well, but this class doesn't crumble if he decides to stay home.

Comparing CJ Williams in any way, shape or form to Jordan Johnson is not just like comparing apples and oranges, its like comparing apples and orangutans. Forget the stars, turn on the tape, consider the competition.

 

[Wild Bill]

Comparing CJ Williams in any way, shape or form to Jordan Johnson is not just like comparing apples and oranges, its like comparing apples and orangutans. Forget the stars, turn on the tape, consider the competition.

Well said. Johnson was rated high based on his raw talent but he was far from a polished receiver. Recruiting is a crap shoot overall but there are some skilled guys who, barring injury or off field issues, are safe bets. Amon-Ra St. Brown was one of those guys. He ran precise routes and it was just fairly obvious he would be able to contribute early. This kid isn't as polished as St Brown out of HS but he looks more polished than your average highly rated WR prospect

 

[HereComesTheManor]

Looking at CJ's 247 recruiting profile, it doesn't look like he received an offer from or had much, if any, interaction with Oklahoma while Riley was there. Maybe this was more CJ's doing, but the lack of any contact suggests Riley didn't make any sort of push and he had been recruiting CA hard.

I do think there's a good chance he flips to USC. However, there is a path to coming out on the winning side of this recruitment. BK and team really need to push their longstanding relationships they've built up with him and his family. There's no way Riley can replicate that with only a few weeks to go. Also, if Riley starts pushing for him hard, an easy question to ask is why wasn't he so interested when he was the HC at Oklahoma. A very fair point for BK and team to raise. We, on the other hand, have had him at the top of our board consistently throughout the process.

Regardless, if CJ has his heart set on staying close to home, none of this will matter and can't ever blame a kid for something like that.

 

[ThePiombino]

This isn’t 2012. One recruit will make little to no difference on the program.

Have you seen the WR room? '21 was a very good class, but '19 and '20 were absolute disasters and '18 is on its way out the door. ZERO depth. #thanksDel

EDIT: TO BE CLEAR:

17: Davis
18: Austin, Lenzy, Wilkins
19: NOBODY
20: NOBODY
21: Styles, Colzie, Thomas
22: Merriweather

To have ANY semblance of depth, we need Davis and Wilkins to not only recover from significant injuries, but also want to come back for a 6th/5th year respectively. Also need Austin and Lenzy to want to play 5th years. If none come back we are looking at 4 scholarship WRs before getting into the transfer portal. FOUR! And it's not like anyone we would actually want in the portal would qualify at ND. We would be limited to grad transfers a la Skowronek. Maybe. This is egregious, so yes -- one recruit WILL make a difference. Two even more so.

 

[EvilleIrish]

Have you seen the WR room? '21 was a very good class, but '19 and '20 were absolute disasters and '18 is on its way out the door. ZERO depth. #thanksDel

It has the potential to be comically bad.

 

[ThePiombino]

It has the potential to be comically bad.

Which presents the possibility of us having to regularly play one or both of the following:

• Walk-ons
• Mediocre grad transfers

I mean are we not ND FFS? Del shouldn't just be fired, he should be prosecuted.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Del shouldn't just be fired, he should be prosecuted.

 

[GATTACA!]

Our WR room is embarrassing

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Which presents the possibility of us having to regularly play one or both of the following:

• Walk-ons
• Mediocre grad transfers

I mean are we not ND FFS? Del shouldn't just be fired, he should be prosecuted.

Agree it's a difficult situation that should've been avoided, and that's on Del. I'd be curious if BK does make a move there, kind of hoping he will.

Hopefully the grad transfers you alluded to will be for depth and won't actually be called upon for meaningful minutes. I know I saw a few 3* guys from IU just hit the portal in the past 24 hours.

Lenzy?
Austin?
Davis?
Wilkins?
Styles
Colzie
Jayden Thomas
Merriweather

Depending on the decisions of the first four, that's pretty damning to see we will only have 4 scholarship WRs. Really hoping we get all four of them back, but I doubt it.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Agree it's a difficult situation that should've been avoided, and that's on Del. I'd be curious if BK does make a move there, kind of hoping he will.

Hopefully the grad transfers you alluded to will be for depth and won't actually be called upon for meaningful minutes. I know I saw a few 3* guys from IU just hit the portal in the past 24 hours.

Lenzy?
Austin?
Davis?
Wilkins?
Styles
Colzie
Jayden Thomas
Merriweather

Depending on the decisions of the first four, that's pretty damning to see we will only have 4 scholarship WRs. Really hoping we get all four of them back, but I doubt it.

I don't get why Del is the fall guy here? Or at least, seemingly, the only one.

Tommy is the big boy in the offensive recruiting room here. The fact that we had no contingency for this possibility reflects poorly on him, because offensive recruiting and the offers are ultimately on him. That goes double for Kelly.

The recruiting board, the offers and any plan Bs that get approved, fall on them.

And it's especially infuriating, because this reeks of the same situation with Shipley, where the staff put all their eggs in this one basket. Fortunately with Shipley, they had time to re-evaluate and ended up with Diggs and Estime. This time, they don't have that luxury.

They better hope that these visits are homeruns and they can hold onto these guys, because if not, I'm looking at more than just Del as potential pink slips. This is a complete offensive staff failure.

 

[NDMatt91]

Agree it's a difficult situation that should've been avoided, and that's on Del. I'd be curious if BK does make a move there, kind of hoping he will.

Getting dominated by Bama last year forced BK to no longer be lazy/complacent and bring in Freeman. Perhaps our WR commits flipping and/or a spanking by UGA in the playoff will force him to bring in a WR coach who is a better recruiter.

 

[irish o'phile]

How can this program be so successful and put WRs in the NFL, and have a situation like their WR room? It’s crazy.

 

[NDMatt91]

I don't get why Del is the fall guy here? Or at least, seemingly, the only one.

Tommy is the big boy in the offensive recruiting room here. The fact that we had no contingency for this possibility reflects poorly on him, because offensive recruiting and the offers are ultimately on him. That goes double for Kelly.

Exactly. Kelly had no national search and lazily waddled 10 feet down the hall to promote his former QB to be the next OC.

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't get why Del is the fall guy here? Or at least, seemingly, the only one.

Tommy is the big boy in the offensive recruiting room here. The fact that we had no contingency for this possibility reflects poorly on him, because offensive recruiting and the offers are ultimately on him. That goes double for Kelly.

The recruiting board, the offers and any plan Bs that get approved, fall on them.

And it's especially infuriating, because this reeks of the same situation with Shipley, where the staff put all their eggs in this one basket. Fortunately with Shipley, they had time to re-evaluate and ended up with Diggs and Estime. This time, they don't have that luxury.

They better hope that these visits are homeruns and they can hold onto these guys, because if not, I'm looking at more than just Del as potential pink slips. This is a complete offensive staff failure.

OK, but when RB recruiting seemingly shit the bed last year the staff was able to grab not one, but two very good RBs (Diggs & Estime). This year when OL recruiting was looking meh, things picked back up and we even got a surprise commitment from one top of the board guy and are seemingly back in it with another top of the board guy.

Are we going to blame Tommy for the WR, but not give him credit for the RB and OL situations? Seems more likely to me that the position coaches deserve more credit (good or bad) than Tommy here...

 

[Crazy Balki]

Are we going to blame Tommy for the WR, but not give him credit for the RB and OL situations? Seems more likely to me that the position coaches deserve more credit (good or bad) than Tommy here...

Hell yeah we are. And we damn well should.

As I mentioned with RB last year, time was a luxury for Taylor and the staff, something we don't have now. So if this situation unfolded in a similar fashion on the same timetable, are we sure we land Diggs and Estime? Maybe, maybe not. This also goes back to the notion that Rees apparently saw a situation unfold with Shipley at the RB recruiting situation and failed to learn from it and is now repeating the mistake at receiver this year.

He gets credit for the RB and OL situations, but it has been no secret that WR was going to be an issue going into this cycle and especially so, nearing the end of it.

He is ultimately responsible for the way the offense is recruited. In. It's. Entirety.

You can't have holes at this level and if there are, he is ultimately accountable for it. He's accountable for who they take, holding onto them and if they can't, having contingencies in place. Maybe this all resolves and ND holds onto Williams and Walker, or they had someone in place to take one of their spots that we didn't hear of, but as it is now, it's a very bad look for Rees and his inability to maintain control of the situation of offensive recruiting, and that also falls back on Kelly for so many reasons.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Let's see how things shake out over the next two weeks before we start calling for Tommy's head.

 

[NDFAN2008]

I mean if things get real tight next year Watts can play both ways or move back to WR.

 

[NDIrish88]

Don't forget the portal may provide

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Anyone know Del's golf handicap? Gotta be around 8 or 9 with all the free time.

 

[TDHeysus]

kids/recruits like this is why I stepped back from following recruiting too closely.

As I'm sure its been said before, this scenario (Cali kid committing to ND) has played out many, many times before. Flat out, most of these don't pan out at ND (for various reasons). My experience seems to be if the kid commits and basically stays reasonably quiet since the commit date, they come to ND and what happens, happens.

However, the Cali committs that are high-maintenance (talking to recruiting services, media, other players, etc) typically do not pan out. Alot of them stretch out their recruitment to final day and select a school other than ND. So possibly losing a committ just doesn't register on my radar. Because....

In the BK-era, even if that Cali-kid comes to ND he has to survive BK's doghouse, and all of the various reasons why these 'high-impact' recruits dont see the field at ND seemingly till their junior year anyway.

I still say ND should do their due diligence go after these recruits, but just remember these are 18 year-old kids; I really believe most of them know where they want to go from day 1.

 

[ACamp1900]

Let's see how things shake out over the next two weeks before we start calling for Tommy's head.

Saved for two weeks from today,……

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Saved for two weeks from today,……

If we have another promising season cut short by a limited WR room (like in 2020), then Rees will deserve all the criticism coming his way. But there were lots of posts like these about RB and OL recruiting, and those position groups worked themselves out just fine. If we manage to hang onto both Walker and Williams, Rees looks like a genius. If we lose one and replace him with Nick Anderson, he'll also look like a genius. I'm not gonna bet against him at this point.

 

[SBirishlawyer]

Did Bradshaw from Virginia ever commit somewhere else yet?

 

[Crazy Balki]

If we have another promising season cut short by a limited WR room (like in 2020), then Rees will deserve all the criticism coming his way. But there were lots of posts like these about RB and OL recruiting, and those position groups worked themselves out just fine. If we manage to hang onto both Walker and Williams, Rees looks like a genius. If we lose one and replace him with Nick Anderson, he'll also look like a genius. I'm not gonna bet against him at this point.

We'll see.

I think if we didn't land Wagner, we'd be singing a very different tune about the OL. Needless to say, many people were absolutely shocked, including the ND staff.

You only really needed to take 1 RB and they got a really good on in JD Price. People complained about not landing Singleton, Hayden or Sawchuk, but they were luxuries, not needs.

Landing 3 high level recruits at receiver is a grave need. So I wouldn't be singing his praises if he replaces CJ with Anderson. And if he loses CJ and Walker, I have a very tough time imagining them finding 2 guys who are at their level.

 

[NDdomer2]

We'll see.

I think if we didn't land Wagner, we'd be singing a very different tune about the OL. Needless to say, many people were absolutely shocked, including the ND staff.

You only really needed to take 1 RB and they got a really good on in JD Price. People complained about not landing Singleton, Hayden or Sawchuk, but they were luxuries, not needs.

Landing 3 high level recruits at receiver is a grave need. So I wouldn't be singing his praises if he replaces CJ with Anderson. And if he loses CJ and Walker, I have a very tough time imagining them finding 2 guys who are at their level.

Im not even remotely considering moving on from Rees if we dont land Williams and Walker. One is/was likely never to end up here and the other is looking more and more like he was just waiting for a reason to stay home.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Im not even remotely considering moving on from Rees if we dont land Williams and Walker. One is/was likely never to end up here and the other is looking more and more like he was just waiting for a reason to stay home.

Flip side....if CJ was waiting for a reason and Walker never seemed likely to sign, shouldn't he have a strong contingency plan in place? For me, recruiting is recruiting and replacing Williams like for like is not all that feasible. But not having someone else of high quality in the pipeline would be a major error and would be somewhat analogous to QB recruiting this year.

 

[NDdomer2]

Flip side....if CJ was waiting for a reason and Walker never seemed likely to sign, shouldn't he have a strong contingency plan in place? For me, recruiting is recruiting and replacing Williams like for like is not all that feasible. But not having someone else of high quality in the pipeline would be a major error and would be somewhat analogous to QB recruiting this year.

Yes he should, and as of now they are still committed so we don't know that he doesn't.

Double flip on the scenario: he openly recruits WRs all year for back up plans and Williams walker deco because we kept looking and everyone wants Rees fired for the 4th time this season.

He has them in the fold so he has to play his cards really careful imo. Should be fun next month or two