2016 Presidential Horse Race

[fightingirish26]

tbf it's not like Trump ever had a chance of winning Oregon

 

[kmoose]

Also LOL at conservatives complaining about safe spaces on one hand and complaining about Obama speaking on the other.

I don't have an opinion on Obama speaking at ND, nor on ND conferring an honorary degree. However, I do think there is a clear difference between a group of people saying "We stand so strongly against his views on abortion, that we think he is not a good choice as a commencement speaker." and another group of people saying, "This person's words are like sticks and stones to us, and put us in real danger. So you have to provide a space for us to go, to be shielded from hearing things that we don't agree with."

 

[NDgradstudent]

Also LOL at conservatives complaining about safe spaces on one hand and complaining about Obama speaking on the other.

There is of course a basic distinction between what is said at a university and what a university says (by who it chooses to honor). Conservatives, unlike liberals, have never demanded to not even hear opposing views spoken. Conservatives object to honoring someone who encourages and uses his office to promote abortion.

Yeah, it sure was fun having all the random assholes... I mean, "activists"... pushing baby strollers with "murdered" babies in them around campus, flying planes overhead with banners, etc.

All because a guy was going to give a commencement address.

Bear in mind we were at peak Obama hysteria in early 2009. The Nobel Prize, etc. It's not surprising that ND and its students got wrapped up in it. Objecting took far more courage than rolling over.

I'm not sure what your point is here. What do you think explains Obama being honored but not Trump? Perhaps you agree with me that it is simply academic fashion but think that it fine for ND to follow academic fashion even when it encourages or requires compromises on its Catholic identity? We'd just have to agree to disagree about that.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

There is of course a basic distinction between what is said at a university and what a university says (by who it chooses to honor). Conservatives, unlike liberals, have never demanded to not even hear opposing views spoken. Conservatives object to honoring someone who encourages and uses his office to promote abortion.

Robert Bork vehemently opposed challenges to the death penalty. He received the same honor from Notre Dame. Cool?

 

[wizards8507]

Robert Bork vehemently opposed challenges to the death penalty. He received the same honor from Notre Dame. Cool?

Read up on your Catechism, dawg. There are situations wherein the death penalty is licit under Catholic teaching. Abortion never is.

Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The fifth commandment

 

[zelezo vlk]

Robert Bork vehemently opposed challenges to the death penalty. He received the same honor from Notre Dame. Cool?

The death penalty is up for prudential judgment. Even Pope Benedict XVI has said so. Abortion is not, because there is no way to justify the ending of innocent human life.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Read up on your Catechism, dawg. There are situations wherein the death penalty is licit under Catholic teaching. Abortion never is.

2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here's the spokesman for Ben Carson (who — reminder! — ran for president of the United States): <a href="https://t.co/TuuQxUHTl3">https://t.co/TuuQxUHTl3</a> <a href="https://t.co/QsBBMlrk9J">pic.twitter.com/QsBBMlrk9J</a></p>— McKay Coppins (@mckaycoppins) <a href="https://twitter.com/mckaycoppins/status/798559004020633601">November 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ACamp1900]

Interesting...

 

[connor_in]

actually, all 6 showed up blank ...

 

[phgreek]

Much of the "Rising American electorate" thesis--which argues that demographic trends will soon deliver Democrats an invincible majority--is predicated on the assumption that Hispanics will follow a similar political trajectory to African-Americans. But it looks like they're more likely to follow the Irish:

...everyone should follow the irish... WHY Wouldn't they? Seriously... folks steeped in Christianity are going to be driven by its moral and ethical lessons...which, of course, come through in life's pursuits, and how one frames challenges, fairness, success....shrug.

 

[phgreek]

Some of the comments from the SJW's and their total meltdown is hilarious. Never seen a group more out of touch with reality and completely unable to grasp just why their side lost.

...I wish people would stop "helping" them.

They make far better comedians than informed citizens.

 

[MJ12666]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here's the spokesman for Ben Carson (who — reminder! — ran for president of the United States): <a href="https://t.co/TuuQxUHTl3">https://t.co/TuuQxUHTl3</a> <a href="https://t.co/QsBBMlrk9J">pic.twitter.com/QsBBMlrk9J</a></p>— McKay Coppins (@mckaycoppins) <a href="https://twitter.com/mckaycoppins/status/798559004020633601">November 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

You think that maybe he just really does not want the job and this is simply his way of politely saying no?

 

[connor_in]

Good luck with that! Barbara Boxer introducing bill to abolish Electoral College – twitchy.com

 

[GowerND11]

Good luck with that! Barbara Boxer introducing bill to abolish Electoral College – twitchy.com

It's as if people don't grasp that we are a republic, and as such the presidential election is to reflect who the states elect, not the people.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

We're not arguing the relative merits of the death penalty. Simply pointing out that defense of the death penalty is far less egregious than promoting abortion, at least from a Catholic perspective.

And I'm pointing out that the Catechism, quoting Evangelium Vitae, uses the wording "practically nonexistent."

 

[connor_in]

It's as if people don't grasp that we are a republic, and as such the presidential election is to reflect who the states elect, not the people.

 

[wizards8507]

And I'm pointing out that the Catechism, quoting Evangelium Vitae, uses the wording "practically nonexistent."

"Practically nonexistent" is nowhere near as strong as "gravely contrary to moral law."

Translated to the vernacular, the death penalty is "almost always a bad idea." Abortion is "evil under any circumstances. Don't do that or you're going to hell."

 

[Emcee77]

Much of the "Rising American electorate" thesis--which argues that demographic trends will soon deliver Democrats an invincible majority--is predicated on the assumption that Hispanics will follow a similar political trajectory to African-Americans. But it looks like they're more likely to follow the Irish:

Yep, I don't disagree with any of that. It makes sense, especially considering that immigration from Latin America has leveled off and remained steady in recent years, that future generations of Latino voters will be increasingly indifferent to the immigration reform issue, or they might even end up taking anti-immigration stances, as so many white descendants of immigrants do today.

But it's probably also fair to point out that, where Latino voters are concerned, there are no signs of things getting better for the GOP any time soon. A couple of political scientists with some expertise in the matter think the data showing that Trump actually did better with Latino voters than Romney did, which has led to much gnashing of teeth in the past week, are flawed:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...why-the-exit-polls-are-wrong-on-latino-votes/

I still think the GOP needs to reach out to Latino voters, rather than alienate them, if it wants to build and consolidate a reliable majority of the American electorate.

 

[phgreek]

Such is racism. Degrading people due to things out of their control IS the point IMO. By the way I heard worse than that four times yesterday alone.

That sucks. Decent folks don't do well around that kind of stuff. I'd think it'd weigh on ya.

To be clear...

I've seen people, regardless of race, absolutely going at each other using the most offensive things they can conjure. Insults which evoke the most visceral response, and thus are the most effective, involve manipulating an aspect of someone's life that they cannot control. It causes indignation...which is the point...yes?

I see racism as withholding opportunity, or dispensing unequal justice, etc. based upon the race of the individual. Attitudes likely to render such things can certainly be illuminated by what folks say...In the cited case above, the clear spatial separation between they that spoke the slurs, and the first lady...this wasn't a heated argument that just went to a bad place...this was needless, and a pretty good indication of the attitudes of the people.

They need to be gone from any kind of role wherein they serve the public.

 

[wizards8507]

Trump’s Proposals Won’t Help The White Working Class — Or The Urban Poor | FiveThirtyEight

 

[IrishBroker]

Yep, I don't disagree with any of that. It makes sense, especially considering that immigration from Latin America has leveled off and remained steady in recent years, that future generations of Latino voters will be increasingly indifferent to the immigration reform issue, or they might even end up taking anti-immigration stances, as so many white descendants of immigrants do today.

But it's probably also fair to point out that, where Latino voters are concerned, there are no signs of things getting better for the GOP any time soon. A couple of political scientists with some expertise in the matter think the data showing that Trump actually did better with Latino voters than Romney did, which has led to much gnashing of teeth in the past week, are flawed:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...why-the-exit-polls-are-wrong-on-latino-votes/


So we just have to take their word for it? Because that's basically what this piece is about...

"As Barreto points out, according to Census data, 48 percent of Latinos live in majority-Hispanic neighborhoods. About the exit poll, he says, “I guarantee that 48 percent of their completed [Latino] respondents do not live in majority Hispanic neighborhoods. It might be 15 percent.”

Because I'm sure two guys that worked for the Clinton campaign are unbias in their polls.

"Before I proceed, let me note that Segura and Barreto did polling for the Clinton campaign, though that work was walled off from Latino Decisions (they separated themselves from the firm for the duration of the campaign)."

I'm sure they did.

 

[IrishBroker]

Trump’s Proposals Won’t Help The White Working Class — Or The Urban Poor | FiveThirtyEight

...but what has 8 years of a democratic POTUS done for them?

Oh yeah, nothing.


That's why Trump won. People are forgetting that.

 

[connor_in]

Portland protesters attack pregnant woman as she tries to get to ER [video] – twitchy.com

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[IrishLax]

Bear in mind we were at peak Obama hysteria in early 2009. The Nobel Prize, etc. It's not surprising that ND and its students got wrapped up in it. Objecting took far more courage than rolling over.

LOL they weren't ND students, they were random outsiders with no affiliation to the University that decided to use him speaking at ND for attention. I don't know if any students, at all, protested. If they did, it was an extremely small minority... small enough to go unnoticed.

There is nothing "courageous" about being an asshole. It's weird how much your rhetoric mirrors that of the extreme PC lefty I despise.

 

[wizards8507]

LOL they weren't ND students, they were random outsiders with no affiliation to the University that decided to use him speaking at ND for attention. I don't know if any students, at all, protested. If they did, it was an extremely small minority... small enough to go unnoticed.

There is nothing "courageous" about being an asshole. It's weird how much your rhetoric mirrors that of the extreme PC lefty I despise.

I may have written a strongly-worded Viewpoint letter.

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[ulukinatme]