2014 Spring Practice Thread

TheRealLynch51

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Really hoping Shummate can find a way to start aside Max. Our secondary would be killer, but seems like it's Colinsworth's job.

I thought I read somewhere that Shumate was battling a hammy issue this spring. It would be nice to see what he does in the Fall with a couple extra months to learn BVG's defense and recover.
 

Wild Bill

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BVG absolutely has to get Doug Randolph ready to play SAM, and Deeb ready to play MIKE. This isn't optional. This speed linebacker crap is going to be great for ASU, North Carolina, Louisville, etc. But if you think a linebacker group of Turner/Schmidt/Smith has a prayer against Stanford you are smoking something good. They will get absolutely run over. They are NOT big enough. USC, Michigan, and FSU might also command "strength" but I'm not sure. I'm hopeful that Tranquill can come in and compete for the WILL spot immediately too if Jaylon is looking like he's primarily going to play SAM/MIKE and they want a speedy "cover" LB for that spot.

Agree. Kelly said something about knowing Schmidt's limitations. I don't mean to disparage Schmidt, he seems like a great kid, I just don't see how you can march him out there as a starter knowing he can't stop the downhill run game. Every team on the schedule can run downhill. Some teams are better than others, of course, but all of them have an inside run game - ISO, trap, stretch (zone blocking), option, etc. These are bread and butter plays and the rest of an offense is built around them. It's an offensive coordinator's dream: Run the snot out of the ball. Force the defense to bring eight in the box or run blitz. Continue running and on 2nd/3rd and short, take your shot down field on play action.
 
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koonja

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If Derrick Green is as solid as UM fans are making him seem, he's going to be a monster to take down right off of the bat. I seriously doubt Morgan will be ready by then, either. It's too bad Randolph isn't a MLB.
 

Riddickulous

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If Derrick Green is as solid as UM fans are making him seem, he's going to be a monster to take down right off of the bat. I seriously doubt Morgan will be ready by then, either. It's too bad Randolph isn't a MLB.

Unless there's a massive and miraculous improvement, he won't have an OL to run behind...





...and he'll still find a way to run for 150 yards as Michigan beats us.
 

Grahambo

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Hi guys, Golson is the leader & i think he will be captain

1273745802_mickey-rourke-say-hi-to-mom.gif
 

Grahambo

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Just rewatched it looking at defense because I think it's natural to watch the O in a game like this. Some thoughts:

-The QBs threw for a bunch of yards. How many passes were completed against KVR and Cole Luke? None? A lot of people made big plays but our two top CBs locked stuff down for the most part. Means they're either really solid cover corners, or our WRs aren't as good as we're billing them to be. I think it's the former.

-The DL is already far superior in their pass rushing upside to the line we rolled out last year. They're not going to be nearly as potentially dominant as a healthy Nix/Tuitt/Day... but Jarron Jones has great ability, Day is playing his natural position, and Okwara looks solid. Ishaq is meh, not enough moves for someone in his 4th year. He's just not developed as an edge rusher and doesn't have the motor of Okwara.

-Rochelle seems like he's going to get locked in as your "standard" or short down & distance SDE. Matuska looks like he's actually going to be an impact player at DT. If we get a couple more guys to step up from frosh, etc. then I think our DL will be great sans injury. I don't know where most of the pessimism was coming from in terms of their pass rushing ability... they're not all A+ players, but they're a better group than the vast majority of teams on our schedule.


-BVG absolutely has to get Doug Randolph ready to play SAM, and Deeb ready to play MIKE. This isn't optional. This speed linebacker crap is going to be great for ASU, North Carolina, Louisville, etc. But if you think a linebacker group of Turner/Schmidt/Smith has a prayer against Stanford you are smoking something good. They will get absolutely run over. They are NOT big enough. USC, Michigan, and FSU might also command "strength" but I'm not sure. I'm hopeful that Tranquill can come in and compete for the WILL spot immediately too if Jaylon is looking like he's primarily going to play SAM/MIKE and they want a speedy "cover" LB for that spot.

Can never have enough pass rushers. This group can be a force this season and collectively, they can be a top group. Last year, the DL relied too much on the big names and when the big names went down with injury, nobody was truly ready to play. This season is different and knowing they all will play, I look for big things out of this group.

As for LB, I expect Morgan to get burn early too.
 

stlnd01

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Really hoping Shummate can find a way to start aside Max. Our secondary would be killer, but seems like it's Colinsworth's job.

I dunno. Shumate's fast and hits like a truck. Collinsworth's only edge is mental. If the game starts to click for Shumate's the job's his, and we've got a big upgrade at safety.
 

stlnd01

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Can never have enough pass rushers. This group can be a force this season and collectively, they can be a top group. Last year, the DL relied too much on the big names and when the big names went down with injury, nobody was truly ready to play. This season is different and knowing they all will play, I look for big things out of this group.

As for LB, I expect Morgan to get burn early too.

If Matuska can indeed contribute, and Trumbetti, and don't we get Springmann back at some point? Plus Rochelle, Jones, Day of course, Okwara and Ishaq on the edge...
Our DL may lack an amazing talent like Tuitt, but it won't lack for quality depth.
 

woolybug25

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Wasn't it just last week when everybody was saying they were worried about the defensive line? Something about the starters being quality but lacking in depth?

How quickly the tide turns...
 
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koonja

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Wasn't it just last week when everybody was saying they were worried about the defensive line? Something about the starters being quality but lacking in depth?

How quickly the tide turns...

I am as concerned as anyone, so I'll take this one.

I thought our pass rush would be good. I'd say it was really good to great, so it exceededy expectations and I thought Romeo and Rochell showed promise.

Buty concern has always been against the run, and Saturday didn't change my mind about that. I think my words somewhere in this threat were 'I'm confident in 3rd and long, but I'm concerned about getting there'.

I'm traveling for work the rest of the week (you guys get a break from me ;)), and I don't know the rushing numbers for the game, but I thought the offense ran really well for the most part. I know it was a passing frenzy for the most part, but outside of 2 tackles for no gain, I thought the offense moved the ball really well on the ground.

That's not all on the DL, and I think the LBs are a question mark as well, especially I'm the middle. But yes, overall I was impressed, but I'm iffy on the rush D.
 

TheTurningPoint

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Safety play was pretty bad in my opinion. I thought Redfield and Baratti looked the best. Shumate had a nice hit, but coulda been called PI, and was out of position several times. Collinsworth in the box just doesnt seem like a natural fit, UNLESS he is playing nickel. He just gets over powered too much. Hardy was out of position a few times more than you would like, but he did make some plays as well. Redfield looked like I expected, in command, but not really in too many positions to make plays playing overtop.

Id love to Shumate/Hardy/Baratti in place of Collinsworth, just bc all 3 are bigger, faster, stronger, but shumate/hardy have mental lapses and who knows how long Baratti can stay healthy. This is why Onwualu playing more of a LB role surprises me. Kid is built how you want a safety to play, he probably has more speed/athleticism than any safety minus Redfield. He can def grow into a LB, but hes the prototype build for a NFL safety.

BVG kept it vanilla, but I did love some of the stunts. He was pulling the crap Stanford does to everyone with pulling DE all the way across into the opposite A/B gap, then blitzing off that same edge so when the QB steps up, he gets met by Ishaq or Romeo. But it was extremely tamed down from what they were doing in practice.
 

Grahambo

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Wasn't it just last week when everybody was saying they were worried about the defensive line? Something about the starters being quality but lacking in depth?

How quickly the tide turns...

I know this 'everybody' you speak of does not include me.
 

woolybug25

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I am as concerned as anyone, so I'll take this one.

I thought our pass rush would be good. I'd say it was really good to great, so it exceededy expectations and I thought Romeo and Rochell showed promise.

Buty concern has always been against the run, and Saturday didn't change my mind about that. I think my words somewhere in this threat were 'I'm confident in 3rd and long, but I'm concerned about getting there'.

I'm traveling for work the rest of the week (you guys get a break from me ;)), and I don't know the rushing numbers for the game, but I thought the offense ran really well for the most part. I know it was a passing frenzy for the most part, but outside of 2 tackles for no gain, I thought the offense moved the ball really well on the ground.

That's not all on the DL, and I think the LBs are a question mark as well, especially I'm the middle. But yes, overall I was impressed, but I'm iffy on the rush D.

This isn't what you were saying before. You're argument has always been about depth and the same players you say that you like now, you said that you didn't just a couple weeks ago. You can't just change your tune know that you've seen the product. haha

Rochell IMO, hasn't shown he's physically ready to win against a solid starting OL. I don't remember him making any plays last year. New year, I get it, just saying.

Trumbetti looks great on film and I expect him to be a really good player, but he's what, 18-19?

Hounshell has played like 3 snaps and isn't physically imposing and has shown nothing.

Springman is your best mention, but again, still limited to non-contact and coming off of a knee injury.

Utupo has been non-existent in any meaningful minutes, Matuska, Cage, Hayes, Mokwuak, Williams, all nothing.

I think Hayes has great athleticism, so he'll get time, but again, going from playing NY high schoolers to USC, Stanford, etc?

I think our depth is fine. Quality of depth? These guys are incredibly young and unproven IMO. Next year, we're going to have really good quality and quantity of depth, but I think this year the offense is going to have to shine and the back end of the defense will have to force turnovers.

You think our DL will be better or as good, I think that's nuts. Let's agree to disagree.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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I am as concerned as anyone, so I'll take this one.

I thought our pass rush would be good. I'd say it was really good to great, so it exceededy expectations and I thought Romeo and Rochell showed promise.

Buty concern has always been against the run, and Saturday didn't change my mind about that. I think my words somewhere in this threat were 'I'm confident in 3rd and long, but I'm concerned about getting there'.

I'm traveling for work the rest of the week (you guys get a break from me ;)), and I don't know the rushing numbers for the game, but I thought the offense ran really well for the most part. I know it was a passing frenzy for the most part, but outside of 2 tackles for no gain, I thought the offense moved the ball really well on the ground.

That's not all on the DL, and I think the LBs are a question mark as well, especially I'm the middle. But yes, overall I was impressed, but I'm iffy on the rush D.

I'm not nearly as worried as some on here but to be a bit more practical:

  • The pass rush occurred against a random group of Olinemen. Most OL weren't playing out of position but it was the first live action many of them had seen.
  • Two of our best linemen are still out. Lombard and Martin would've made a difference. Putting the 5 best on the field would've made a difference.
  • I'm glad players like Bivin, Montelus, Hegarty, Hanratty and McGovern were able to line up and get some valuable minutes in front of a live defense and a live crowd, but there's a big difference between mixing and matching and putting our 5 best on the line. Stanley, Elmber, Martin, Lombard & McGlinchey are one nasty combination on the field and would be a completely different beast for our DLine to take on.
  • I agree with most that the most concerning part about our defense is heft. We're used to being a Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield on the defensive side and we're becoming more Floyd Mayweather Jr. To be fair, Stanford's defensive front has been smaller than our and they are always up to the task of playing physical football. As long as VanGorder gets the defense in the right position and he's able to continue teaching our players, I'll trust him. He has more experience than Diaco and that worked out pretty well for us after watching the Weis teams get gashed for 30+ on a routine basis. We lost to Syracuse prior to Diaco (I was there).

We have a team that knows how to compete, has learned how to continue fighting. We have a training table and a strength and conditioning program, we have a roster stacked with talent, we've been in the top 15 recruiting classes for the past 3-4 years. We have elite players at every level of the defense: Day, J. Smith, Russell & (hopefully Redfield). With a glut of talent stepping on campus this summer (that was one ranking away from consensus top-10 class), I expect our team to be really fun to watch. No more waiting for mistakes to be made, now we'll be forcing them, taking gambles. Getting burned on occasion, it's a certainty. But it's time to see what this collection of talent can do.

Time for Vangorder to RELEASE THE KRACKEN!
 

Old Man Mike

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Van Gorder shows every sign of recognizing the necessity and committing to Speed. Thus the DE position and the usages at linebacker of personnel like Okwara/Williams {DE} and Turner/Onwualu {LB}. The board has resisted this speed vs mass theory of defense for as long as I've been reading, but BVG seems to clearly see that 21st century offense demands speed-to-space to deal with the running QB and short/midrange spread passing games.

I understand [sort of] the tendency of long term football watchers to fear fielding lighter yet faster defenses. But I really think that we haven't watched "southern football" enough. We keep mentioning defensive players sprinkled around teams like LSU and FSU as if they are odd exceptions --- just strange freaks who could never face the rigors of power football. Maybe not if we're only looking at just the one player against the world. But it's TEAM defense.

BVG seems to teach defense,yes "schematically", to employ speed to the ball, covering space from all angles once the opponent begins to commit. It is the speed of the player that closes the space "vacated" by a teammate being overpowered by a giant. One guy is taken out, but the other teammates rush into the space to make plays. Watch LSU and FSU do this. [even Alabama, but I'm not talking about them, as they get the fast guys who are also big --- even there, however, the athleticism trumps the bigness as you rarely see an Alabama defender on the ground... or any of the athletic speed defenses in the south].

The speed defender is also fast enough that if he has good quick recognition, the giant cannot properly just set him up for a blow-out block... i.e. sometimes he just beats the guy to the spot. "Oh, but they won't want to tackle the big back." Really? A 220 pound fast athlete doesn't want to tackle a 220 pound back in the hole? Ask Stanford. Ask LSU. Ask Alabama's linebackers other than the one large one they usually have in the middle. Plus, winged by speed, that defender is rarely alone.

The faith in the 21st century defense is that it is a team game which, "up front" and in the middle of the field, makes up for the occasional overpowering by FAST FAST filling in by everyone else with wheels. You don't have to win every play. You just have to somewhere in a drive win three in a row.


And to the obvious exception to the above: Collinsworth. First: Collinsworth isn't slow. For years now we've seen NFL safeties coming out of Notre Dame who fans criticized for being too slow to react and take the correct angles, particularly at this time of year. Can anyone say "Motta?" Even Harrison had reams of sh!t poured on him. Second: Collinsworth can really tackle. [everybody seems weirdly to forget his special teams play as a KO gunner.] The job of a safety is not to light people up for the highlight reel, but to "safely" protect... hummm, wonder where the term "safety" came from? "Light-em-up" safeties are current targets for officials' yellow flags in today's game anyway. Third: Collinsworth has been said to understand the scheme better than anyone back there. Even Baratti, who was mentioned as being precocious at picking it up... since Nicky lost some time with his injury and is running to catch up. You cannot put a defensive backfield on the field with no general back there. It doesn't make any difference how "athletic" the guy is --- if he doesn't get it he cannot play [can anyone say "Filer", "Moore", maybe even "Farley"?] Until someone proves to BVG that he understands the defense at least as well as Collinsworth, Collinsworth will provide the stability.

That's my theory.
 
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koonja

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This isn't what you were saying before. You're argument has always been about depth and the same players you say that you like now, you said that you didn't just a couple weeks ago. You can't just change your tune know that you've seen the product. haha

You quoted posts where I talked specifically about certain players, and that's fine and I'm giving credit to Romeo/rochell, but I know I've specifically aired my biggest worry is rushing defense as a whol, but you missed those posts. No big deal but I know for fact they're in this thread, and that hasn't changed at all, even after the spring game. But yes, the pass rush was better than I expected, and Rochell and Romeo looked especially good, but I didn't see enough to think they're going to be run stuffers.
 
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ResLife Hero

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I'm in the same camp as OMM when it comes to the speed vs. size issue. I've seen a lot of big, mean LBs like Calabrese and even Niklas his freshman year look silly and cost us points because they don't get to the spot in time or can't contain the QB (Robinson, Gardner, etc.). I'd rather see our guys going sideline to sideline and wrapping up than knocking off helmets and going for kill shots.

On a somewhat related note, even our dear Manti, who was bigger than he was fast, was criticized coming out for not being able to shed blockers. So having a big front 7 isn't in itself a guarantee that they can handle the offensive front better than a fast, balanced group.
 
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irishfan

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I'm in the same camp as OMM when it comes to the speed vs. size issue. I've seen a lot of big, mean LBs like Calabrese and even Niklas his freshman year look silly and cost us points because they don't get to the spot in time or can't contain the QB (Robinson, Gardner, etc.). I'd rather see our guys going sideline to sideline and wrapping up then knocking off helmets and going for kill shots.

On a somewhat related note, even our dear Manti, who was bigger than he was fast, was criticized coming out for not being able to shed blockers. So having a big front 7 isn't in itself a guarantee that they can handle the offensive front better than a fast, balanced group.

This is exactly how I feel. I'll take my chances with the light, fast front 7. No more Fox's or Calabrese's in coverage, please.

Even Te'o was crappy in coverage his first three years....
 

aubeirish

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This isn't what you were saying before. You're argument has always been about depth and the same players you say that you like now, you said that you didn't just a couple weeks ago. You can't just change your tune know that you've seen the product. haha

Agreed haha.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Safety play was pretty bad in my opinion. I thought Redfield and Baratti looked the best. Shumate had a nice hit, but coulda been called PI, and was out of position several times. Collinsworth in the box just doesnt seem like a natural fit, UNLESS he is playing nickel. He just gets over powered too much. Hardy was out of position a few times more than you would like, but he did make some plays as well. Redfield looked like I expected, in command, but not really in too many positions to make plays playing overtop.

Id love to Shumate/Hardy/Baratti in place of Collinsworth, just bc all 3 are bigger, faster, stronger, but shumate/hardy have mental lapses and who knows how long Baratti can stay healthy. This is why Onwualu playing more of a LB role surprises me. Kid is built how you want a safety to play, he probably has more speed/athleticism than any safety minus Redfield. He can def grow into a LB, but hes the prototype build for a NFL safety.

BVG kept it vanilla, but I did love some of the stunts. He was pulling the crap Stanford does to everyone with pulling DE all the way across into the opposite A/B gap, then blitzing off that same edge so when the QB steps up, he gets met by Ishaq or Romeo. But it was extremely tamed down from what they were doing in practice.

Everybody should read this three or four times. I liked him using the de's to screen the trailing blitzer, too.

Also : Old Man Mike and his wisdom.

Mike is right, any further proof needed that to look at the numbers from the defenses VanGorder coached, (other than Auburn), and how incredibly successful they were at stopping the run. I believe the Jets led the NFL last year.
 
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PANDFAN

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At the start of spring practice head coach Brian Kelly said he wanted to hide sophomore linebacker Jaylon Smith in different positions and make offenses search for him. The new plan turns that strategy upside down. Smith’s new position makes it difficult for opponents to hide from him.


Irish linebacker Jaylon Smith, top, will be playing inside as a sophomore for the first time in his football career.

Smith moved about a third of the way through spring practice from Sam linebacker, the closest translation to the drop position he played as a freshman, to Will linebacker, where he’ll spend more of his time set up inside than outside. Notre Dame’s coaches made the change for several reasons. It simplifies what Smith needs to learn, it puts him in a good spot to make plays and it fills a big need in the middle of the Irish defense.

“Need was another huge factor in that. [We] need to move him in a position where he could impact that defense, and we felt that that was more of an impactful position,” Kelly said.

It wouldn’t be difficult for opponents to create game plans that isolated Smith with certain formations at the Sam position. For example, with three wide receivers split to one side of the field, it’s the Sam’s responsibility to bounce outside and help in coverage. That formation would take Smith away from the pass rush or from stopping the run. It’s much harder for opposing teams to isolate the Will position in a similar way, Kelly said.

The move also makes life more simple for Smith, who was trying to learn multiple positions in a complex and brand new defensive scheme. At the start of spring, he played on one side of the defense in its base and moved to the weak side when Notre Dame pulled one of its linebackers off the field in favor of a nickel back, a personnel group that the Irish plan to use frequently. Switching to the Will keeps him in the same place no matter who the other 10 players on the field are.

“We’re not going to Jaylon off the field under any circumstances,” said linebackers coach Bob Elliott. “He wasn’t a nickel, and we’re going to be in nickel some so he had to learn how to play somewhere else. He kind of learned that and he started showing some stuff, and now we’re thinking maybe he can do that all the time.”

Smith said the deluge of information thrown at him during the first weeks of March is slowly starting to make sense. He said he thinks he has a handle on “a great chunk” of new coordinator Brian VanGorder is trying to accomplish with the new scheme.

Elliott agreed that Smith made progress during the second half of spring ball. He praised the freshman All-American for his sponge-like willingness to learn and take coaching despite his early success. The biggest challenge for Smith will be getting used to seeing the game from a different angle.

“It’s really just every play starts with sight,” Smith said after the team’s spring game Saturday. “All my life I’ve seen the game from an outside perspective, so it’s really just getting used to reading offensive linemen from inside out.”

Smith said he played inside linebacker during one playoff game in his high school career. Other than that, he’s only had to worry about reading offensive players coming in one direction. Lining up as an inside linebacker will require him to expand his peripheral vision to see tight ends, backs and oncoming linemen at different times.

Once he sees the linemen, stopping could be an issue too. Notre Dame’s current linebacker corps as a group is considerably smaller than in years past. Smith is the heaviest of the three projected starters at 235 pounds. Mike linebacker Joe Schmidt weighs 230 pounds and converted safety John Turner, who took over Smith’s spot at the Sam position, was only 217 pounds at the start of spring.

Smith said he has added weight since he started his career last fall, but doesn’t plan to continue getting larger.

“I’m where I need to be,” he said. “I’m 235 and that’s where I want to be. I won’t be getting any bigger. I want to keep my speed.”

That speed was on display during Saturday’s Blue-Gold game when Smith chased down sophomore running back Tarean Folston from the backside of the defense when it looked like Folston has a lot of room to run. He finished the game with six tackles in limiting playing time. Notre Dame is hoping those numbers grow as Smith settles into his new role as one of the team’s top playmakers.
Notre Dame's Jaylon Smith moves to the middle
 

Luckylucci

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Everybody should read this three or four times. I liked him using the de's to screen the trailing blitzer, too.

Also : Old Man Mike and his wisdom.

Mike is right, any further proof needed that to look at the numbers from the defenses VanGorder coached, (other than Auburn), and how incredibly successful they were at stopping the run. I believe the Jets led the NFL last year.

While I agree with the direction this is going. He was the LB coach. Not the DC or HC. Thats Rex's D and they've been consistently good during Rex's entire tenure.
 

tko

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Goddamnit OMM, stop making so much sense!!!!!! Those aliens really messed you up.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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While I agree with the direction this is going. He was the LB coach. Not the DC or HC. Thats Rex's D and they've been consistently good during Rex's entire tenure.

I see what you are saying, and I understand.

My point with the Jets was, that is what BVG has said influenced him most greatly as he puts this defense together. In past, when he put it together, or was an assistant influenced by great defensive minds, all those defenses killed other teams running games. It wasn't even close. And it is because of exactly what OMM said, numbers.

Before you had the big immobile guy standing the offensive player up, maintaining responsibility for one gap. If he fell it was all over (Alabama.)

With BVG you have people moving and flowing to a single gap, to attack, with the ability to read keys and flow to the ball with momentum.
 

NDdomer2

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For years now we've seen NFL safeties coming out of Notre Dame who fans criticized for being too slow to react and take the correct angles, particularly at this time of year. Can anyone say "Motta?"

Don't know if Motta is the best example. ran a 4.83 at the combine. was drafted in the 7th round and didnt record a tackle until after week 10. Would have to think if the Falcons season wasn't a shit hole he would have never saw the field outside ST.
 
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