2013 Spring Practice Thread

[Walter White]

Sigh. Pointing out the obvious, thanks. Since baratti saw the field as a freshman, not to mention against our biggest rivalry in a close game (not to mention he played qb in hs) I assume he's not a mental clam. So going on the hypothesis that he can read a play book and recognize plays, there's no chance Farley starts over him if baratti runs a 4.45 laser 40. He'd easily be the biggest specimen on our team given those measurables.

Maybe Farley runs just as fast and has a deeper understanding of the playbook/intricacies of playing safety?

It's not all about measurables. Just a small piece of the pie.

 

[koonja]

I'll be sure to remind the coaches that high school laser timed 40 times are the determining factor in deciding playing time / starting spots.

Sigh.

Same old, simple argument. What do you think Farley has that baratti does not have? Given there's no glaring discrepancies between baratti and Farley in tackling, football iq, toughness, etc, there's no way baratti sits. He's bigger and rediculously faster.

Again, show me some credible references to speed rank. I never hear anything a
About them.

Btw, when you get to the 4.4 range, .1 seconds of a difference is about two strides. So baratti is about 6 strides ahead of a guy like zeke according to those that think baratti is 4.46. Yikes

 

[FLDomer]

Same old argument. What do you think Farley has that baratti does not have?

A sweet fro!

 

[Ironman8]

Same old argument. What do you think Farley has that baratti does not have?

I don't know, and neither do you. That's the whole point. But the coaches know, and there is a reason why Farley played as much as he did last year, and why he has garnered so much praise this spring from them as well.

Does Baratti bite on play action while Farley stay home? Does Farley show better pass defense awareness? Do he show better tackling and run support skills / technique?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions or plenty of other possible ones, but they all illustrate key areas of importance for a safety, not just a 40 time.

You edited your post to imply that you know that that there is no 'discernible differences' in some of the questions I asked above - how in hell do you know that? Are you in the film room and on the practice field?

I am all for seeing the best in certain players and gushing about their talent / potential, but every spring some people on here go way overboard. Let's see who is out there and what they show against Temple, and go from there.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

When arguin' comes first, it is followed closely by logic rushing out the door next.

Baratti ran a laser timed 4.45 forty yard dash.

Farley will start at his spot and has a good chance of being voted Captain and making an AA team this year.

There is a log jam at safety.

It may not look like it yet, but there is a log jam at wide receiver (and slot) too.

Arguments are futile. More posts should start with, I would like to see . . . (me included.)

He fixes the cable?

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

That's part of it, but if you think speed rank is reliable in how they measures barattis time, then you must think he's the second coming of Taylor mays, who is the only safety I can think of that's in the 6'3, 220 plus range who runs/ran a legit 4.4-4.45 laser 40 yard dash. Given that baratti is smart enough to handle a defensive play book, he would start his entire career at safety. It would be really hard for even redfield to ever see playing time until he was a senior, assuming he stayed at the same position as baratti. You guys are nuts if you think baratti is that big and that athletic and won't start on an nd secondary. He'd be the best safety in the NCAA given he can tackle and read a play book.

If its true, beating out Farley will be nothing. He'll have as good of a chance as any of being a 1st team all American as a true sophomore.

Dude he ran in a straight line, on a track, probably 10-15 lbs lighter. You are putting way too much on this and making some very broad generalizations.

 

[Wild Bill]

If you can stomach watching the NCG again, you'll see the the need for a safety with elite athleticism. Motta was solid last year but was flat-out exposed in the NCG. He could not turn his hips and run with Bama's receivers, blockers beat him to the point of attack and he didn't have the speed to cut an angle on their backs. It was a disaster. Diaco's scheme funnels the ball carrier to the safety (assuming the guards are good enough to block our mike, i.e., the pigs on bama's oline). The scheme demands a lot from the safety position - size, speed, strength and smarts. Redfield, a rare recruit, offers all those qualities and I hope he earns the starting spot from day 1.

 

[GoIrish41]

Do the Olympics count as sports?

maybe the summer olympics.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I can't speak for kuehnja, but I think he's just saying that if Baratti ran a legit, NFL Combine 4.45 we'd either have been wowed by him by now or he'd have gotten more use by Diaco during the season.

He might not be correct but this certainly isn't as controversial a position as people are making it out to be.

He's not saying Baratti had a shmashmortion.

 

[irishog77]

Same old, simple argument. What do you think Farley has that baratti does not have? Given there's no glaring discrepancies between baratti and Farley in tackling, football iq, toughness, etc, there's no way baratti sits. He's bigger and rediculously faster.

Again, show me some credible references to speed rank. I never hear anything a
About them.

Btw, when you get to the 4.4 range, .1 seconds of a difference is about two strides. So baratti is about 6 strides ahead of a guy like zeke according to those that think baratti is 4.46. Yikes

Source

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

I don't know, and neither do you. That's the whole point. But the coaches know, and there is a reason why Farley played as much as he did last year, and why he has garnered so much praise this spring from them as well.

Does Baratti bite on play action while Farley stay home? Does Farley show better pass defense awareness? Do he show better tackling and run support skills / technique?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions or plenty of other possible ones, but they all illustrate key areas of importance for a safety, not just a 40 time.

You edited your post to imply that you know that that there is no 'discernible differences' in some of the questions I asked above - how in hell do you know that? Are you in the film room and on the practice field?

I am all for seeing the best in certain players and gushing about their talent / potential, but every spring some people on here go way overboard. Let's see who is out there and what they show against Temple, and go from there.

It's that quick trip to everyonesafuc*ingstudville I was talking about last week.

The new toys are exciting in theory but Kelly has shown he'll go with experience (unconscious competence) over potential.

Hell, people giving Vanderdoes more of a chance to play than our 5* red-shirt DL Jarron Jones.. Who Kelly already stated will get a handful of opportunities this year.

Bob Elliott spoke about how important the mental aspect of the safety position ,as opposed to physical attributes. Kuenja, I'll take a 6 stride loss if it means a better angle on the play every week. Max and Baratti are top notch athletes but if they don't have the mental edge over everyone else, they simply won't get the majority of playing time. And like we all know, that mental edge takes time. Year 2 in the system I could see Max or Baratti taking the starting roles.

I think we'll see a bit more flexibility when it comes to WR and RB. Although, I don't see Kelly just throwing Bryant out there automatically. I think he will see what he's got with the combination of GAIII, Amir, Mahone and Cam. If that's working and we're moving the ball with relative ease, I think he'll give Bryant and Folson a year to develop.

Corey Robinson really stood out to me in the short clips this spring. Situational weapon in the red zone? Sure. Also, it seems due to transfers (forced hand) the slot position is up for grabs. I've heard TJ might moonlight there and would love to see CJ breakout there.

What excites me most is that I look at this class and don't necessarily think a freshman player HAS to start somewhere. We have depth. Another box checked by our patient, steady and fearless leader.

 

[koonja]

I don't know, and neither do you. That's the whole point. But the coaches know, and there is a reason why Farley played as much as he did last year, and why he has garnered so much praise this spring from them as well.

Does Baratti bite on play action while Farley stay home? Does Farley show better pass defense awareness? Do he show better tackling and run support skills / technique?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions or plenty of other possible ones, but they all illustrate key areas of importance for a safety, not just a 40 time.

You edited your post to imply that you know that that there is no 'discernible differences' in some of the questions I asked above - how in hell do you know that? Are you in the film room and on the practice field?

I am all for seeing the best in certain players and gushing about their talent / potential, but every spring some people on here go way overboard. Let's see who is out there and what they show against Temple, and go from there.

Agreed.

Great points. My points are:

A) Baratti played many positions in high school, including QB. It's safe to assume he's a hard worker, strong communicator, and most importantly, intelligent.

B) He EE'd, no? Giving him more of a chance to beat out a new starter in Farley.

C) Baratti played on special teams. I assume he's not afraid of contact and tackles well (he did tackle well, in fact).

D) He played safety vs. Michigan. Our coaches wouldn't put him out there if he couldn't 'swim' in such a big game.

So, if Farley's by no means a stand out at safety, not to mention a first time starter, how could a physical FREAK who's 6'3", 220 and has absolutely elite speed not push him out of the one role?

My entire points are that I do not buy speedrank's testing of Baratti. There's no evidence to support that they're a credible website or company or whatever the hell they are.


You guys can all laugh at me when Baratti leaves early after his junior year and is the #3 pick in the NFL draft if he in fact is that much of a freak.

 

[koonja]

[/B]

Source

Sportsscience. I will try to find the video.

 

[PANDFAN]

Agreed.

Great points. My points are:

A) Baratti played many positions in high school, including QB. It's safe to assume he's a hard worker, strong communicator, and most importantly, intelligent.

B) He EE'd, no? Giving him more of a chance to beat out a new starter in Farley.

C) Baratti played on special teams. I assume he's not afraid of contact and tackles well (he did tackle well, in fact).

D) He played safety vs. Michigan. Our coaches wouldn't put him out there if he couldn't 'swim' in such a big game.

So, if Farley's by no means a stand out at safety, not to mention a first time starter, how could a physical FREAK who's 6'3", 220 and has absolutely elite speed not push him out of the one role?

My entire points are that I do not buy speedrank's testing of Baratti. There's no evidence to support that they're a credible website or company or whatever the hell they are.


You guys can all laugh at me when Baratti leaves early after his junior year and is the #3 pick in the NFL draft if he in fact is that much of a freak.

what are you going to bet this time??? ur already wrestling a bear....i got it!!!!

you have to find out if there are any more dead kittens in there.....ok???
Let me google that for you

 

[Whiskeyjack]

He fixes the cable?

Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.

Dude he ran in a straight line, on a track, probably 10-15 lbs lighter. You are putting way to much on this and making some very broad generalizations.

^

So, if Farley's by no means a stand out at safety, not to mention a first time starter, how could a physical FREAK who's 6'3", 220 and has absolutely elite speed not push him out of the one role?

You're trying to draw conclusions: (1) from a tiny data set; and (2) from factors that aren't even close to being dispositive regarding who starts at Safety. We discussed this via PM back when I first posted Baratti's SpeedRank video; it might be flawed in some way, but it looks legit on the video, so I have no reason to doubt it right now.

And, as always, 40 times are vastly overrated in importance.

 

[NDWorld247]

Why all of the debate on Farley vs. Baratti? Based on Keith Arnold's ITI article today (Farley provides a constant at safety | Inside the Irish) they don't play the same position. It seems the debate should be between Baratti and Shumate.

FWIW, I think we'll see more of a rotation in the defensive backfield this year. Not to mention the staff's desire to play more Dime packages will help get some of this DB depth onto the field.

Redfield will play ST from day 1. I don't expect him to leap over Shumate and Baratti at the "field safety" position in year 1. There's a huge difference physically between a recent HS graduate and two guys that have been been through a full season, off-season conditioning, and spring practice.

 

[koonja]

what are you going to bet this time??? ur already wrestling a bear....i got it!!!!

you have to find out if there are any more dead kittens in there.....ok???

I am on the hook for quite a bit. How about I have her wrestle the bear and I have sex with the winner? That has to cover a lot of my bets...

 

[Ironman8]

Agreed.

Great points. My points are:

A) Baratti played many positions in high school, including QB. It's safe to assume he's a hard worker, strong communicator, and most importantly, intelligent.

B) He EE'd, no? Giving him more of a chance to beat out a new starter in Farley.

C) Baratti played on special teams. I assume he's not afraid of contact and tackles well (he did tackle well, in fact).

D) He played safety vs. Michigan. Our coaches wouldn't put him out there if he couldn't 'swim' in such a big game.

So, if Farley's by no means a stand out at safety, not to mention a first time starter, how could a physical FREAK who's 6'3", 220 and has absolutely elite speed not push him out of the one role?

My entire points are that I do not buy speedrank's testing of Baratti. There's no evidence to support that they're a credible website or company or whatever the hell they are.


You guys can all laugh at me when Baratti leaves early after his junior year and is the #3 pick in the NFL draft if he in fact is that much of a freak.

Ok, but again, your points are either based on assumptions or facts without backgroud:

1. I've met plenty of non-intelligent QB or multiple position players. Haven't you. I wouldn't rely on that assumption as the #1 item of my argument.

2. He did not EE, but not sure what your point on that is either way.

3. First all, another assumption. Secondly, tackling on special teams is not the same as fitting in run support or showing consistency in taking proper angles on running-backs, no?

4. Injuries to Slaughter and Collinsworth forced him in the game, and this was before Farley was a mainstay. What happened after this game? At the S spot opposite Motta, Farley's playing time skyrocketed, and Baratti's regressed. Make whatever assumption you want regarding that.

I don't know how you are saying Farley wasn't a stand out at safety accordingly to your logic, but Baratti is/will be? Baratti got into the rotation early, and then playing time regressed, while the exact opposite happened with Farley. It's obvious Farley stood out to the coaching staff, if nothing else.

When Baratti runs, do you hear a "Whoooooosh"?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Evidently, I didn't hit submit after my long post from earlier today....

Anyways, in short, I think we should remember that ND's roster is locked-n-loaded. True frosh will have a much harder time breaking into the two-deep unless they truly warrant it ---> ultra talented, has the mental game down, has technique down, understands the playbook, practices/plays consistently, etc. That's a lot to ask of a true frosh. In a way, it's good news. It just means the staff won't be forced to play someone who's not ready. BK is also changing up his ST philosophy too and will play starters. Again, this makes it difficult for a true frosh to see the field unless, once again, they truly warrant the PT. So with that said, I think anyone thinking incoming player-x is a stud and absolutely won't red-shirt, needs to take a breath and realize this roster is stacked and the chances are even more slim than year's past that a true frosh will rise to the top. Can it happen? Absolutely. Even I think there are a few guys who are a lock to see reps. But what do I know...I'm just a fan. Time will tell.

In the meantime, I guess it's fun discussion. I just think people need to chill on the absolutes. No one can possibly know who will or will not play at this point. Hell, some of these guys haven't even set foot on campus. Lets pump the brakes a bit.

 

[PANDFAN]

I am on the hook for quite a bit. How about I have her wrestle the bear and I have sex with the winner? That has to cover a lot of my bets...

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Ugg....This thread is unreadable now.

 

[koonja]

Ok, but again, your points are either based on assumptions or facts without backgroud:

1. I've met plenty of non-intelligent QB or multiple position players. Haven't you. I wouldn't rely on that assumption as the #1 item of my argument.

2. He did not EE, but not sure what your point on that is either way.

3. First all, another assumption. Secondly, tackling on special teams is not the same as fitting in run support or showing consistency in taking proper angles on running-backs, no?

4. Injuries to Slaughter and Collinsworth forced him in the game, and this was before Farley was a mainstay. What happened after this game? At the S spot opposite Motta, Farley's playing time skyrocketed, and Baratti's regressed. Make whatever assumption you want regarding that.

I don't know how you are saying Farley wasn't a stand out at safety accordingly to your logic, but Baratti is/will be? Baratti got into the rotation early, and then playing time regressed, while the exact opposite happened with Farley. It's obvious Farley stood out to the coaching staff, if nothing else.

When Baratti runs, do you hear a "Whoooooosh"?

Granted, but I think my assumptions aren't as far fetched as yours (i.e., it's more likely that Baratti is intelligent than not, more likely that he can tackle than not, etc.).

I digress. You buy the 4.45 laser 40, I do not. I hope you're right. If so, with him and if Redfield's all he's supposed to be, we will have the most dynamic safeties, maybe ever in college football.

I don't buy it for a second, but hope I'm wrong for many reasons.

 

[Ironman8]

Granted, but I think my assumptions aren't as far fetched as yours (i.e., it's more likely that Baratti is intelligent than not, more likely that he can tackle than not, etc.).

I digress. You buy the 4.45 laser 40, I do not. I hope you're right. If so, with him and if Redfield's all he's supposed to be, we will have the most dynamic safeties, maybe ever in college football.

1. What assumptions did I make? I played Devil's Advocate with you - I never stated for or against either player from my personal opinion. I simply illuminated room for doubt in your original assumptions. Come on man.

2. Again, what are you talking about, Willis? Where have I ever mentioned believing or not believing in his 40 time. I don't care what his 40 time is, truly. If he can be fast and effective on the field, that's all I care about.

3. These projections and conjecture on our talent both individually and in the aggregate is getting out of control. I am all for optimism, but some of these statements and comparisons are ridiculous. I really hope you were joking with the "most dynamic safeties, maybe ever in CFB" quote.

 

[koonja]

1. What assumptions did I make? I played Devil's Advocate with you - I never stated for or against either player from my personal opinion. I simply illuminated room for doubt in your original assumptions. Come on man.

2. Again, what are you talking about, Willis? Where have I ever mentioned believing or not believing in his 40 time. I don't care what his 40 time is, truly. If he can be fast and effective on the field, that's all I care about.

3. These projections and conjecture on our talent both individually and in the aggregate is getting out of control. I am all for optimism, but some of these statements and comparisons are ridiculous. I really hope you were joking with the "most dynamic safeties, maybe ever in CFB" quote.

I wasn't. Redfield is an elite player. His upside is about as good as it gets. And if Baratti is 6'3", 220 and runs a 4.45 laser timed 40, I cannot think of a safety tandem with more potential. Ever.

 

[Ironman8]

I wasn't. Redfield is an elite player. His upside is about as good as it gets. And if Baratti is 6'3", 220 and runs a 4.45 laser timed 40, I cannot think of a safety tandem with more potential. Ever.

Alright, well that is where I take my leave of this conversation.

Good day sir.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I wasn't. Redfield is an elite player. His upside is about as good as it gets. And if Baratti is 6'3", 220 and runs a 4.45 laser timed 40, I cannot think of a safety tandem with more potential. Ever.

Video of Baratti running a laser-timed 4.45 can be found here.

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3 my a$$. I'll take this level of athleticism any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

From his thread...

 

[NDBoiler]

Does anyone know if there will be more spring practice video coming out today?

And for the love of all that is holy, could a mod kindly delete the fat woman pics?

 

[koonja]

From his thread...

There's also a video of Kobe dunking over a pool of snakes.

I really hope I'm the laughing stock of IE when Baratti is absolutely killing it out there this year. Being a linebacker sized speed demon who athletically stands out against any competition. I won't hold my breath, though, as I'm adamant IMO that he does not run a 4.45 laser 40, or anywhere near.

 

[PANDFAN]

looking at the video several other participants were listed...ben weaver 4.71 and a trey williams 4.45.........their recruiting profiles on rivals show them faster than what the laser time runs they ran at this place....not enough evidence but a little more evidence that Baratti's time may in fact be accurate.....one BIG thing also is that they are outside....whenever there is a ridiculous track time they subtract for wind etc...so this certainly could have aided his time.

 

[koonja]

looking at the video several other participants were listed...ben weaver 4.71 and a trey williams 4.45.........their recruiting profiles on rivals show them faster than what the laser time runs they ran at this place....not enough evidence but a little more evidence that Baratti's time may in fact be accurate.....one BIG thing also is that they are outside....whenever there is a ridiculous track time they subtract for wind etc...so this certainly could have aided his time.

When you mentioned wind aided, it reminded me of on the NCAA football video game when Corsica mentions a non wind aided 40, and Kirk herbstreit goes "non wind aided? I don't care if it was aided or not that guy can fly!".