'18 OH DE Malik Vann (Cincinnati Verbal)

[irish o'phile]

ND always cools on kids and regrets it at the end of the cycle.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Give me a player that we have a strong possibility of getting at his position that is better than him.

PJ Mustipher - Ideally will cross-train at 1T and 3T
Aeneas Hawkins - Bigger version of Vann. Maybe a quicker first step.

Possibly Tyreke Smith pending his growth. Smith could play anywhere but 1T in college but it's likely coming down to whatever he grows to or what the school wants him at.

 

[BobbyMac]

Is Hawkins "bigger" enough to mention? They're different players, they project as different positions. I'll also say: If this class ends up as small as we fear AND Hawkins is a part of it, then the new staff didn't get it done. If you have 4 spots, you can't have the Twins, Mustipher and Hawkins as your haul... with Oghoufo as an inherited, unknown outlier who could be a Drop. They NEED a Booker AND McClain/Ossai/____? in this class but they'll need a scandal, bad report cards or to run off the DL logs from '14/'15 to make that happen.

 

[woolybug25]

PJ Mustipher - Ideally will cross-train at 1T and 3T
Aeneas Hawkins - Bigger version of Vann. Maybe a quicker first step.

Possibly Tyreke Smith pending his growth. Smith could play anywhere but 1T in college but it's likely coming down to whatever he grows to or what the school wants him at.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here, homie. But Vann isn't a DT. Why would the recruitment of these guys effect Vann?

 

[IrishLax]

Malik Vann talks Notre Dame

Premium article from 247, talks about conversation with Elston about the numbers game on the DL, how he appreciated the honesty, and his new leaders.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

Something like this pisses me off. We have a guy like Vangorder burning a scholarship but can't take a guy who Bama has offered. Sorry but you take the kid and figure out what to do with him later.

 

[NCND]

Alabama offered a player ND won't take? That's the LMAO out of all LMAO's.

 

[BobbyMac]

Malik Vann talks Notre Dame

Premium article from 247, talks about conversation with Elston about the numbers game on the DL, how he appreciated the honesty, and his new leaders.

Thanks Lax.

So now this goes back to what Whiskey and I were saying... WTF has been going on the past 2 months? Why has the staff allowed Coach Stepp and his '18 assistants to waste their time, in a public fashion chasing MV? It's not quite a ferret feckin' a football but it's a bad look and shows the recruiting vision & effort is not dialed in like the other heavies. Tate Martell didn't have anybody on his social media chalkboard that wasn't a take... because Urbie wrote the names on the board.

 

[BobbyMac]

Something like this pisses me off. We have a guy like Vangorder burning a scholarship but can't take a guy who Bama has offered. Sorry but you take the kid and figure out what to do with him later.

To be fair, those two facts have nothing to do with each other. MVG won't have a scholarship this fall, let not when MV would have showed up in '18.

 

[IrishLax]

Something like this pisses me off. We have a guy like Vangorder burning a scholarship but can't take a guy who Bama has offered. Sorry but you take the kid and figure out what to do with him later.

Van Gorder is not taking up a scholarship. And even if he was, it'd have no effect on this recruiting class.

 

[IrishLax]

The reasonable assumption for this class is that the focus would be on pass rushers when you consider last year's haul of the players and that they have a DT signed up right now and are likely to add Mustipher. There's not much need for an SDE or interior DL. So if they don't think he's a good pass rushing prospect, that's fine.

My issue is that you're signing kids like MacCollister in last year's class and then passing on a guy like Vann who I think is a very good football player. The only "project" player on the DL to ever work out for BK in his entire tenure was Romeo Okwara. There are almost a half dozen DL on the roster that flat out can't play... but we don't have room for a 4 prospect. I just think it's a questionable approach.

 

[IrishLax]

In the past four classes (so seniors through frosh on current roster) we've signed 11 lowly rated project DLs by my count. That's a lot. Not a single one is value-added contributor. It's not fair to evaluate the frosh yet because they haven't played a snap and two of the lowly rated guys certainly look promising.

But you get my point... it's frustrating to see the staff routinely sign guys you basically know there is only a slim chance they ever do anything at ND besides provide a practice body, but then pass on someone like Vann because numbers are tight for this class both overall and at his project position. Just my opinion.

 

[woolybug25]

In the past four classes (so seniors through frosh on current roster) we've signed 11 lowly rated project DLs by my count. That's a lot. Not a single one is value-added contributor. It's not fair to evaluate the frosh yet because they haven't played a snap and two of the lowly rated guys certainly look promising.

But you get my point... it's frustrating to see the staff routinely sign guys you basically know there is only a slim chance they ever do anything at ND besides provide a practice body, but then pass on someone like Vann because numbers are tight for this class both overall and at his project position. Just my opinion.

 

[Ironman8]

I'm going to choose to trust Elko, as he seems like he's a guy who knows exactly what he wants and works to get it, but I have a really hard time getting on board with passing on a top DE in Ohio, offered by Bama, who seems like a good kid and is close with our current commits.

 

[ND Fan Vancouver]

In the past four classes (so seniors through frosh on current roster) we've signed 11 lowly rated project DLs by my count. That's a lot. Not a single one is value-added contributor. It's not fair to evaluate the frosh yet because they haven't played a snap and two of the lowly rated guys certainly look promising.

But you get my point... it's frustrating to see the staff routinely sign guys you basically know there is only a slim chance they ever do anything at ND besides provide a practice body, but then pass on someone like Vann because numbers are tight for this class both overall and at his project position. Just my opinion.

Very well said Lax. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Is Hawkins "bigger" enough to mention? They're different players, they project as different positions. I'll also say: If this class ends up as small as we fear AND Hawkins is a part of it, then the new staff didn't get it done. If you have 4 spots, you can't have the Twins, Mustipher and Hawkins as your haul... with Oghoufo as an inherited, unknown outlier who could be a Drop. They NEED a Booker AND McClain/Ossai/____? in this class but they'll need a scandal, bad report cards or to run off the DL logs from '14/'15 to make that happen.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l-iIfi3SNpw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Contrarians unite? Aw, that's not going to work is it?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Very well said Lax. Couldn't agree more.

Very well said Van, very well said. Couldn't agree more, except for agreeing with LAX . . .

 

[Rack Em]

In the past four classes (so seniors through frosh on current roster) we've signed 11 lowly rated project DLs by my count. That's a lot. Not a single one is value-added contributor. It's not fair to evaluate the frosh yet because they haven't played a snap and two of the lowly rated guys certainly look promising.

But you get my point... it's frustrating to see the staff routinely sign guys you basically know there is only a slim chance they ever do anything at ND besides provide a practice body, but then pass on someone like Vann because numbers are tight for this class both overall and at his project position. Just my opinion.

Devil's advocate (but I totally agree with you):

Because of very, very poor roster management and recruiting management we've been left with extra schollies near the end of cycles. Consequently, we've needed to grab low tier prospects on the DL to have warm bodies with the chance some of them develop into a Kona Schwenke type rotation player. I don't like the management but we had to take some chances because of recruiting ineptness.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'm going to choose to trust Elko, as he seems like he's a guy who knows exactly what he wants and works to get it, but I have a really hard time getting on board with passing on a top DE in Ohio, offered by Bama, who seems like a good kid and is close with our current commits.

I do not want to get into any debate about who we get or pass on, or any iteration thereof.

But I am asking you Ironman, well, because you are Ironman. No really, I am asking you because of your ability to power through the emotional radon of the board, and make a rational conclusion based upon logic about a rational question.

I don't have the exact timeline. But Malik Vann has had a ND offer for a while, isn't that true?

He has spoken back and forth with ND, and many of the recruits. Also, true?

And at one point I even think he made a comment about how good the ND '18 class was about to get, as in future commitments; again, true, isn't it?

And after it stretched out for a while, wasn't the rumor that he was a silent commit?

So, does anyone know for sure if he passed admission? Or any other screening ND had?

Or does anyone know what position he was intended (per ND's board)?

I guess the bottom line is, was this kid ever a 'fore shore,' all green-light take for ND?

Or was he told that ND would have to wait and see, or was there an academic, or other issue?

It seems to me that sometimes we get all kneejerkey, and piss on each others legs, when maybe there is some piece of information or qualification of which we do not know.

I will take my answer off line.

 

[woolybug25]

I'm going to choose to trust Elko, as he seems like he's a guy who knows exactly what he wants and works to get it, but I have a really hard time getting on board with passing on a top DE in Ohio, offered by Bama, who seems like a good kid and is close with our current commits.

I love Elmo and what he brings to the table, but I have two thoughts..

1) Is it really Elkos call? This strategy hasn't changed from one DV to another.

2) Why does everyone have this belief that Elko understands how to build a roster filled with talent? He's never recruited for a school like Notre Dame where turning away 4star kids was an issue. His stops were all places where he had to find diamonds in the rough through the entire roster. That's not how you recruit here.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Give me a player that we have a strong possibility of getting at his position that is better than him.

PJ Mustipher - Ideally will cross-train at 1T and 3T
Aeneas Hawkins - Bigger version of Vann. Maybe a quicker first step.

Possibly Tyreke Smith pending his growth. Smith could play anywhere but 1T in college but it's likely coming down to whatever he grows to or what the school wants him at.

What is his position?

 

[jspags10pg]

I love Elmo and what he brings to the table, but I have two thoughts..

1) Is it really Elkos call? This strategy hasn't changed from one DV to another.

2) Why does everyone have this belief that Elko understands how to build a roster filled with talent? He's never recruited for a school like Notre Dame where turning away 4star kids was an issue. His stops were all places where he had to find diamonds in the rough through the entire roster. That's not how you recruit here.

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[Ironman8]

I love Elmo and what he brings to the table, but I have two thoughts..

1) Is it really Elkos call? This strategy hasn't changed from one DV to another.

2) Why does everyone have this belief that Elko understands how to build a roster filled with talent? He's never recruited for a school like Notre Dame where turning away 4star kids was an issue. His stops were all places where he had to find diamonds in the rough through the entire roster. That's not how you recruit here.

1) From what I've heard, yes.

2) I agree to a degree, but he knows the type of player he wants and needs. It's pretty obvious he wants more speed and length in this class on the DL - we have a glut of interior players here now and coming in. We need edge players, and if we don't think Vann is one I can get slowing down. I don't agree with it - I would take him in a second, but I can at least see the why.

 

[Ironman8]

I do not want to get into any debate about who we get or pass on, or any iteration thereof.

But I am asking you Ironman, well, because you are Ironman. No really, I am asking you because of your ability to power through the emotional radon of the board, and make a rational conclusion based upon logic about a rational question.

I don't have the exact timeline. But Malik Vann has had a ND offer for a while, isn't that true?

He has spoken back and forth with ND, and many of the recruits. Also, true?

And at one point I even think he made a comment about how good the ND '18 class was about to get, as in future commitments; again, true, isn't it?

And after it stretched out for a while, wasn't the rumor that he was a silent commit?

So, does anyone know for sure if he passed admission? Or any other screening ND had?

Or does anyone know what position he was intended (per ND's board)?

I guess the bottom line is, was this kid ever a 'fore shore,' all green-light take for ND?

Or was he told that ND would have to wait and see, or was there an academic, or other issue?

It seems to me that sometimes we get all kneejerkey, and piss on each others legs, when maybe there is some piece of information or qualification of which we do not know.

I will take my answer off line.

Pretty sure academics aren't an issue. I think it's a profile / skillset thing, and that Elko believes are are full on interior players.

 

[irishandy]

These players that are being mentioned-- is ND really in contention with?

It seems ND has fallen short in the past few recruiting cycles of getting a solid DE.

If a kid is ready to commit why not take him now, to keep the recruiting momentum going rather than play catch up on NSD or a few weeks before?

If he was a better fit in BVG's system, was BVG really doing some recruiting?

 

[IrishLion]

They already have two guys that fit Vann's positional outlook, and a third if the staff feels good about Mustipher.

I could understand why they don't want an undersized Vann if they happened to hear some good news behind the scenes on other guys recently

 

[GBdomer]

These players that are being mentioned-- is ND really in contention with?

It seems ND has fallen short in the past few recruiting cycles of getting a solid DE.

If a kid is ready to commit why not take him now, to keep the recruiting momentum going rather than play catch up on NSD or a few weeks before?

If he was a better fit in BVG's system, was BVG really doing some recruiting?

Many different posters have gone over this but there is no room for a player with Van skill set at this point in the class. He offers no pass rush and we already have a player similar to him in Justin

 

[NDinBoston]

Wiltfong and one other CB foggy and Loy to MSU.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I'm really not against passing on Vann. I wanna wait and see what Elko and lea can do first and how the team does. There's no reason why we shouldn't be in a New Years 6 bowl and have 9 or 10 wins.

 

[koonja]

I approve of this pass. Look what Elko had done in 3 months here. I imagine he can get a DE he loves in another 12 months with official visits and a season to recruit.

OSU/Michigan don't want him at DE either. How many successful college DEs do you see at 6'1"? I wouldn't have been upset if he did commit to us and the staff let him, but I'm definitely not upset we passed.