'16 CA QB Ian Book (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[Irish#1]

Polian needs to get canned or moved aside to recruiting coordinator only. Btw evrytime I type Polian speed check changes it to Polish. Defense wins championships but while we did play pretty good yesterday Pitt had 3 sacks to our one and 8TFL to our 4. Vaughn was a drop off from Pride. A lot of young guys getting in the game.

Is this all Polian or is some of this BK? How much time is alloted to ST work during practice, 15, 30, 40 minutes? Do they practice ST every practice? Anyone know?

 

[IrishLion]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When evaluating Ian Book and however “skittish” he was against Pitt.<br><br>Vs. the blitz:<br>14-of-17 (82.4%) for 102 yards<br><br>Vs. blitzes in his first three starts:<br>13-of-28 (46.4%) for 179 yards<br><br>Pitt attacked a potential weakness. Notre Dame took a step toward making it a strength.</p>— Pete Sampson (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/1051840143982829568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 15, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[koonja]

Book's stats look good on paper. And overall I'm happy with this game, spare the 2 obvious interceptions and the escaping the pocket too quickly...

But IMO he needs to take more shots down field. We really liked the 3 yard outs and TE hitches, because BW could not throw them for whatever reason, but he needs to still take shots down field.

That's where our passing mismatch is - giant WRs who can go up and get it. Nitpicking, but I'm not seeing enough of the down field shots, and while I want to keep the dinking and dunking, a little less, please.

 

[arrowryan]

Book's stats look good on paper. And overall I'm happy with this game, spare the 2 obvious interceptions and the escaping the pocket too quickly...

But IMO he needs to take more shots down field. We really liked the 3 yard outs and TE hitches, because BW could not throw them for whatever reason, but he needs to still take shots down field.

That's where our passing mismatch is - giant WRs who can go up and get it. Nitpicking, but I'm not seeing enough of the down field shots, and while I want to keep the dinking and dunking, a little less, please.

Pitt didn't present many opportunities for Book and the offense to take shots down field, IMO. When you're constantly sending extra rushers and stacking the box, it is very difficult to let those long routes develop. A good offense will take what the defense gives them. In this particular game, the short routes were there and it was their best option.

Now, I think Ian Book bailing out early is a big reason why this team didn't score more. If he would've stayed in the pocket more, I think this offense would've scored 28+. He needs to work on that.

 

[ACamp1900]

That's... pretty good.

Eh, Wimbush's incompletion would have counted....

 

[BeatSC]

Is this all Polian or is some of this BK? How much time is alloted to ST work during practice, 15, 30, 40 minutes? Do they practice ST every practice? Anyone know?

IMO all they need to do on KO's is have someone who can boot it into the endzone consistently. Can't believe we are using a scholarship on #39.

Don't need a lot of practice to have a dummy not jump offside on a 4th and 4. What's the rush anyhow since we never really try to get past the first set of blockers anyway. I blame Kelly for keeping polian around since he wants a lil brother as his wingman.

 

[Irish YJ]

Book per ESPN is now the most accurate QB in CFB (completion %)

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Book per ESPN is now the most accurate QB in CFB (completion %)

Incredible. Let's hope he continues to develop his game because once he add a consistent deep ball, he'll be very hard to beat.

 

[Irish YJ]

from Freemans podcast when asked about Books performance in the 1st half...

He said... (I'm paraphrasing)
press coverage, poor pass protection, mid terms, 4th start, great D mind in Narduzzi, emotions from Stanford, no Alex Barrs, rumors of academic issues... he said he wasn't making fun of the question... but was..

said, if anyone can confuse/trick a QB, Narduzzi is the guy...

 

[ulukinatme]

Reesus should have been familiar with the defense they saw on Saturday. I didn't catch all the game, but from what I saw it very much reminded me of the Michigan State game in 2013. Narduzzi brought a lot of pressure in that game and was focused on shutting down the run. It left Corners on an island on the outside, forcing Reesus to pass his way out of it. What ended up happening was about 30 Pass Interference penalties against Michigan State and the Irish won the game. Again, I didn't catch the whole game Saturday, but it very much reminded me of that.

 

[Irish YJ]

Reesus should have been familiar with the defense they saw on Saturday. I didn't catch all the game, but from what I saw it very much reminded me of the Michigan State game in 2013. Narduzzi brought a lot of pressure in that game and was focused on shutting down the run. It left Corners on an island on the outside, forcing Reesus to pass his way out of it. What ended up happening was about 30 Pass Interference penalties against Michigan State and the Irish won the game. Again, I didn't catch the whole game Saturday, but it very much reminded me of that.

Would like to know how much actual input Reesus has to the game plan. Does he help formulate it, or does he just "receive it" from Long/BK, and plans/coaches accordingly.

Heard/read a lot of different takes on the game the last two days. One, I think it was 247's podcast, said that there were so many blitzes, and so many kinds of blitzes, that rushing less than 5, were actually the "change up" calls from Narduzzi.

Several reports talked about the press coverage, and coverage in general being excellent. Narduzzi sucks as a HC, but he has almost always called good Ds against us.

 

[stlnd01]

Now, I think Ian Book bailing out early is a big reason why this team didn't score more. If he would've stayed in the pocket more, I think this offense would've scored 28+. He needs to work on that.

Agreed. There were times he looked like Wimbush out there, pulling it down and running around in the pocket trying to make something out of what he thought was nothing. Did better in the later third and fourth quarter though. Stayed in the pocket and made his throws. That was when we started moving the ball consistently.

Agree that looked a lot like a Michigan State defense on Saturday. Narduzzi knows what he's doing.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Ian Book is as good as the blitz blocking allows him to be (and even more.)

Ian's tendency to pull the ball down when the reads aren't open has been discussed by observers. He has the in-game "philosophy" of trying to prevent turnovers by sack fumbles and hurry passes. To me he obviously REALLY (i.e. highest priority) doesn't want to follow some of our recent quarterbacking in turnovers. Whether this quick tuck and live-another-play concept is his or Kelly's I of course don't know --- but it looks planned to me.

When the blocking improves (especially the RB blocking --- but also the LG/LT gap blocking), Book will be nearly unstoppable by any ordinary to really good football team. Ruhland doesn't seem to be strong enough. Eichenberg stills fouls up a lot of assignments. The rightside is far better at maintaining a pocket cup than the left. Book often takes a halfstep up when the reads aren't immediately open, then senses the left side breaking down and does his whirling spin thing to try to escape. RBs almost never see the blitz point danger.

We REALLY need the RBs to step up on this, and this at least should be fixable with experience. Whether we can fix the Leftside this season, who knows? Banks and Lugg are still there lurking for time.

 

[koonja]

Speaking of blitzing and LBs, does any one realize how Dexter Williams has quietly been really good the last 2 games? Our best RB at blitz pick up in those games.

Is there anything he doesn't do?

 

[Irish#1]

Speaking of blitzing and LBs, does any one realize how Dexter Williams has quietly been really good the last 2 games? Our best RB at blitz pick up in those games.

Is there anything he doesn't do?

He's doing better, but he isn't there yet.

 

[koonja]

He's doing better, but he isn't there yet.

He was excellent in the last game. Better than Josh Adams.

 

[fightingirish26]

He was excellent in the last game. Better than Josh Adams.

your josh adams hate is...weird. we get it, you like dex.

 

[koonja]

your josh adams hate is...weird. we get it, you like dex.

I don't hate him. I just think he was overrated, even as a blocker. He was a good back and I wish he were on this team.

 

[ulukinatme]

Speaking of blitzing and LBs, does any one realize how Dexter Williams has quietly been really good the last 2 games? Our best RB at blitz pick up in those games.

Is there anything he doesn't do?

You picked an interesting time to tout his blitz pickup, after we struggled mightily in that last game.

 

[Irish YJ]

That’s not entirely true, QBR is calculated by looking at success on a play-by-play basis for the QB position. It’s similar to how S&P, FEI, and other advanced stats looks at drive success or efficiency or whatever.

So Book has a bad QBR because of how many times he didn’t get the job done on a play-by-play basis.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9612585/total-quarterback-rating-college-football

take a read. happy to debate, but the link spells it out. some things are rewarded more, and some things less. a QB who throws a lot screens and short are not rewarded nearly as much. A QB with a struggling line is not rewarded nearly as much for the same completion rating as a QB with a good line.

 

[Irish YJ]

Book had his best QBR (raw and adjusted) of his career tonight. Second highest QB Rating.

 

[ulukinatme]

Book had his best QBR (raw and adjusted) of his career tonight. Second highest QB Rating.

I feel a bit bad for Wimbush, but it really makes me wonder how Book can be so spot on with his passing, be manageable with the run, and Wimbush still came out of camp as the starter? Maybe they felt like he was going to work better against Michigan or that we needed an experienced QB, I don't know....but I credit Reesus for making the switch and showing Book the way.

 

[NorthDakota]

I feel a bit bad for Wimbush, but it really makes me wonder how Book can be so spot on with his passing, be manageable with the run, and Wimbush still came out of camp as the starter? Maybe they felt like he was going to work better against Michigan or that we needed an experienced QB, I don't know....but I credit Reesus for making the switch and showing Book the way.

 

[GATTACA!]

I feel a bit bad for Wimbush, but it really makes me wonder how Book can be so spot on with his passing, be manageable with the run, and Wimbush still came out of camp as the starter? Maybe they felt like he was going to work better against Michigan or that we needed an experienced QB, I don't know....but I credit Reesus for making the switch and showing Book the way.

Wimbush reportedly looked amazing in practice. His yips seem to come when facing live competition unfortunately.

 

[Irish YJ]

I feel a bit bad for Wimbush, but it really makes me wonder how Book can be so spot on with his passing, be manageable with the run, and Wimbush still came out of camp as the starter? Maybe they felt like he was going to work better against Michigan or that we needed an experienced QB, I don't know....but I credit Reesus for making the switch and showing Book the way.

With the up and down press from pre-season practice, I'm also confused.
I think BK's decision to stay with him was a mix of loyalty/experience/wheels.
I hate it for BW too. Still wish they could somehow get him involved in a non-QB roll.
I just hope he goes somewhere that embraces him and he can ball the F out.

 

[Irish YJ]

A few more Book stats.

Book is still the most accurate QB in the nation at 76.5%, a full 3.3% over #2 Kyler Murray.
Book is now #7 nationally for QB Rating
He is now #19 in Total QBR and #17 Raw QBR

That's very impressive given the poor QBR he had vs Pitt.

 

[IrishLax]

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9612585/total-quarterback-rating-college-football

take a read. happy to debate, but the link spells it out. some things are rewarded more, and some things less. a QB who throws a lot screens and short are not rewarded nearly as much. A QB with a struggling line is not rewarded nearly as much for the same completion rating as a QB with a good line.

I have.

Traditional box score stats distort the performances of Rodgers and Cousins in this game because they (1) fail to account for all of the ways a quarterback can affect a game, (2) don’t put plays into the proper context (a 5-yard gain on second-and-5 is very different from a 5-yard gain on third-and-10), and 3) don’t acknowledge that a quarterback has teammates who affect each play and should also get credit for everything that happens on the field.

ESPN’s Total Quarterback Rating (Total QBR), which was released in 2011, has never claimed to be perfect, but unlike other measures of quarterback performance, it incorporates all of a quarterback’s contributions to winning, including how he impacts the game on passes, rushes, turnovers and penalties. Also, since QBR is built from the play level, it accounts for a team’s level of success or failure on every play to provide the proper context and then allocates credit to the quarterback and his teammate to produce a clearer measure of quarterback efficiency.

 

[Irish YJ]

I have.

That's part of it, but you're ignoring the points I made. So a few simple true or false

1) A QB with an OC who calls more screens is automatically disadvantaged (compared to a QB with an OC who calls less screens), and even with the same amount of, or even more production (pure yards and TDs) can have a lower QBR (than the QB not throwing screens).

2) A QB with higher production (pure yards and TDs) with a crap OL (giving up sacks), can have a lower QBR than a QB with less production, but has a great line (less or no sacks).

Both of the above can be true.

Point is, QBR is different from QB Rating, and has it's strengths and weaknesses. A QB like Book, can have higher production (pure yards, TDs) than others, but still look worse from a QBR perspective simply due to ND's love of screens, and a struggling OL. But, will have a higher QB Rating.

 

[IrishLax]

That's part of it, but you're ignoring the points I made. So a few simple true or false

I'm really not, I'm just reinforcing what I said --

That’s not entirely true, QBR is calculated by looking at success on a play-by-play basis for the QB position. It’s similar to how S&P, FEI, and other advanced stats looks at drive success or efficiency or whatever.

So Book has a bad QBR because of how many times he didn’t get the job done on a play-by-play basis.

I never said you were wrong or crazy or anything like that, just that the idea that "subtract half the sacks and the INT and he has a great QBR" is not entirely true. Those plays sure as heck weren't worth 30+ points of QBR, and the primary driver of his score was him playing like butt not things outside of his control.

1) A QB with an OC who calls more screens is automatically disadvantaged (compared to a QB with an OC who calls less screens), and even with the same amount of, or even more production (pure yards and TDs) can have a lower QBR (than the QB not throwing screens).

2) A QB with higher production (pure yards and TDs) with a crap OL (giving up sacks), can have a lower QBR than a QB with less production, but has a great line (less or no sacks).

Both of the above can be true.

Point is, QBR is different from QB Rating, and has it's strengths and weaknesses. A QB like Book, can have higher production (pure yards, TDs) than others, but still look worse from a QBR perspective simply due to ND's love of screens, and a struggling OL. But, will have a higher QB Rating.

To both those points, consider this passage --

For example, Rodgers’ longest completion against the Redskins was a 34-yarder to James Jones in the second quarter, but he could have gained those yards through the air or on a short screen that was broken for a long gain. He also could have completed the pass when under duress or thrown it from a clean pocket. In all of those scenarios, Rodgers’ level of skill differs, and the credit he receives for the 34-yard gain (or in this case, plus-2.0 EPA) should differ as well.

That means on completed passes, the EPA is divided among the quarterback, his receivers and the offensive line based on how far the ball travels in the air, what percentage of the yards were gained after the catch (compared to how many yards after catch are expected) and whether the quarterback was under pressure. This division of credit is based on statistical analysis of thousands upon thousands of NFL plays. In this sense, QBR knows that Cousins was helped by his receiver, who gained fewer yards after the catch than expected given where he caught the ball, but hurt by his offensive line.

Consequently, it already tries to adjust for exactly the things you are talking about. Yes, someone throwing nothing but screens is going to get less credit for the gains, but that's intentional. That doesn't necessarily mean they're "disadvantaged" in trying to get a good grade out of 100 over the course of the game. For example, someone throwing short passes that goes 35/40 for 300 yards & 3 TDs is likely to have a similar 90+ grade to someone who goes 20/30 for 300 yards & 3 TDs. Why? Because the player pushing the ball down the field gets more EPA per throw, but he's also being less efficient and likely missing more throws to get to those numbers. Baked in there is whether or not the OL and WRs are playing well.

So...
1. The player with a vertical passing game only has an "advantage" if it's effective on a YPA basis, and if the player doing the short passing game is inefficient (i.e. misses a fair amount of throws).

2. The opposite of this should be true, because you are supposed to get more credit for completing throws under duress.

 

[Bluto]

If you look at what Minshew is doing at WSU (very accurate and efficient) and consider that Book was comitted to WSU I think ND’s QB recruiting strategy for the foreseeable future needs to be poach any QB Mike Leach is trying to recruit.