'16 CA QB Ian Book (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[TDHeysus]

Don't know if this has been pointed out here or not, however I think BK should treat Wimbush similar to how Urban Liar did Braxton Miller once JT Barrett took over.

Braxton Miller (Wimbush) was too good to not have on the field, so they found ways to get him the ball in space. Wimbush should be used in a similar fashion. Having Book run the offense, with the additional weapon of having Wimbush is a true win-win.

It's a little different in that OSU had another player that could back up Barrett other than Miller, but I think with Book running the offense, Wimbush should be a featured back, he is too good to not have in the game.

 

[ACamp1900]

Don't know if this has been pointed out here or not, however I think BK should treat Wimbush similar to how Urban Liar did Braxton Miller once JT Barrett took over.

Braxton Miller (Wimbush) was too good to not have on the field, so they found ways to get him the ball in space. Wimbush should be used in a similar fashion. Having Book run the offense, with the additional weapon of having Wimbush is a true win-win.

It's a little different in that OSU had another player that could back up Barrett other than Miller, but I think with Book running the offense, Wimbush should be a featured back, he is too good to not have in the game.

agreed.... nothing overly cute but find ways to get him in space... he's too explosive to not have a role.

 

[Irish YJ]

I know people have questioned Book's arm strength, but he unleashed a 60 yard bomb that was on a rope to Kevin Austin in the 3rd quarter that would have been caught if not for the interference call. I'm not worried about his ability to stretch the field. He can do it.

If we can just find a WR who can run under a few bombs.

Hello Mr. Lenzy, i'm talking to you.

And yup, the whole arm strength debate is pretty silly to me when we really haven't had a chance to see him try to throw any long balls. Sure BW has a cannon, but we're assuming Book is weak based off of HS tape and talking heads commenting on practice. Not even sure I remember the talking heads saying Book couldn't do anything (except run as fast as BW).

 

[Irish YJ]

Don't know if this has been pointed out here or not, however I think BK should treat Wimbush similar to how Urban Liar did Braxton Miller once JT Barrett took over.

Braxton Miller (Wimbush) was too good to not have on the field, so they found ways to get him the ball in space. Wimbush should be used in a similar fashion. Having Book run the offense, with the additional weapon of having Wimbush is a true win-win.

It's a little different in that OSU had another player that could back up Barrett other than Miller, but I think with Book running the offense, Wimbush should be a featured back, he is too good to not have in the game.

What I would love to see is a RZ Book to BW pass behind the LOS, and BW tossing it back to Book for the TD. and VV

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I tend to agree, perpetuating the trend of Notre Dame QBs who don’t play out their time as Notre Dame QBs. And I wouldn’t blame him.
But... unless they switch Avery Davis back, and assuming the three-star freshman redshirts, that would leave us in the unfortunate position of effectively having two QBs who can play in 2019. Not ideal.

You hating on Brendon Clark already?

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[FightingIrishLover7]

I don't see Brandon as a RB. WR, only if he can run routes (which is a huge unknown). My thoughts, we have actual scholarship running backs and actual scholarship WRs. I don't see how he would be better than actual trained players. I don't think he's top end fast enough, or elusive enough to be used in either capacity, especially this late in his career. I would leave him as back up QB. If he wants to transfer after this year, so be it.

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[koonja]

Some of you are vastly overstating BW's athleticism. Assuming he was comfortable and knew what to do, he would be the 5th best RB on the team right now. He'd literally be scout-team-material. At WR, he'd be even more buried.

He runs like a TE, not a WR or RB. His only chance to ever see the field is at QB.

Further, we act like he deserves to be on the field because we like him as a kid. Well, he's been given EVERY benefit of the doubt. Book has been the one held back if anyone at all. The kid had his chance, and then he had a 2nd chance, and a 3rd chance, etc. BK doesn't owe him anything, and he definitely should NOT be on the field if not at QB.

 

[NDMIA]

Some of you are vastly overstating BW's athleticism. Assuming he was comfortable and knew what to do, he would be the 5th best RB on the team right now. He'd literally be scout-team-material. At WR, he'd be even more buried.

He runs like a TE, not a WR or RB. His only chance to ever see the field is at QB.

Further, we act like he deserves to be on the field because we like him as a kid. Well, he's been given EVERY benefit of the doubt. Book has been the one held back if anyone at all. The kid had his chance, and then he had a 2nd chance, and a 3rd chance, etc. BK doesn't owe him anything, and he definitely should NOT be on the field if not at QB.

Ideally Phil Jurkovec comes into 3 more blowout games (Navy, Pitt, FSU???) and then Brandon Wimbush gets every other rep that’s needed in relief. That way you can keep Brandon Wimbush relatively engaged in case Ian goes down and Phil gets his reps while preserving his eligibility. First and foremost though, Ian Book should get every snap until he really struggles. Give him a leash of 2-3 bad games like Wimbush got and make sure he has confidence to not be looking over his shoulder should he throw an interception or two.

 

[Irish YJ]

Some of you are vastly overstating BW's athleticism. Assuming he was comfortable and knew what to do, he would be the 5th best RB on the team right now. He'd literally be scout-team-material. At WR, he'd be even more buried.

He runs like a TE, not a WR or RB. His only chance to ever see the field is at QB.

Further, we act like he deserves to be on the field because we like him as a kid. Well, he's been given EVERY benefit of the doubt. Book has been the one held back if anyone at all. The kid had his chance, and then he had a 2nd chance, and a 3rd chance, etc. BK doesn't owe him anything, and he definitely should NOT be on the field if not at QB.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions about BW. What's his 40 time compared to the RBs and WRs we have? We simply don't have a lot of burners (Lenzy I think is the fastest). Armstrong and Jones aren't burners. BW has a similar build to Josh Adams and not far from Jafar. Dex coming back is the fastest, right? Claypool and Boykin run similar to TEs.

We already have two player conversions working out pretty well for the O. Why assume BW can't do the same.

The biggest concern is QB depth. I'll say though if Book maintains, BW will more than likely be gone after this season anyway. I'd roll the dice and find any way to keep him involved, and allow him to contribute. If he can't, he can't. If he can, bonus.

 

[koonja]

I think you're making a lot of assumptions about BW. What's his 40 time compared to the RBs and WRs we have? We simply don't have a lot of burners (Lenzy I think is the fastest). Armstrong and Jones aren't burners. BW has a similar build to Josh Adams and not far from Jafar. Dex coming back is the fastest, right? Claypool and Boykin run similar to TEs.

We already have two player conversions working out pretty well for the O. Why assume BW can't do the same.

The biggest concern is QB depth. I'll say though if Book maintains, BW will more than likely be gone after this season anyway. I'd roll the dice and find any way to keep him involved, and allow him to contribute. If he can't, he can't. If he can, bonus.

BW will not run below a 4.75 if he makes the NFL combine, and his agility makes Josh Adams look like Barry Sanders.

He's a really good athlete as a QB. He'd be a terrible athlete for a WR or RB IMO.

If he gets to do a NFL combine - please remind me if he runs below a 4.75. I'll eat all the crow.

 

[ND88]

Some of you are vastly overstating BW's athleticism. Assuming he was comfortable and knew what to do, he would be the 5th best RB on the team right now. He'd literally be scout-team-material. At WR, he'd be even more buried.

He runs like a TE, not a WR or RB. His only chance to ever see the field is at QB.

Further, we act like he deserves to be on the field because we like him as a kid. Well, he's been given EVERY benefit of the doubt. Book has been the one held back if anyone at all. The kid had his chance, and then he had a 2nd chance, and a 3rd chance, etc. BK doesn't owe him anything, and he definitely should NOT be on the field if not at QB.

Right. Because it’s not like Brandon has ever earned being on the field because of his attributes and athleticism. He’s just a good kid that everybody likes and deserves to have positive vibes all the time.. I’d hate to think what you might say about Book if his lack of athleticism affects his play against a much better opponent in Stanford. But wait, that won’t happen because we have vastly underrated his athleticism to appease Brandon’s ego. Book would be more like a 4th RB at best with a 1st stringer arm.

 

[koonja]

Right. Because it’s not like Brandon has ever earned being on the field because of his attributes and athleticism. He’s just a good kid that everybody likes and deserves to have positive vibes all the time.. I’d hate to think what you might say about Book if his lack of athleticism affects his play against a much better opponent in Stanford. But wait, that won’t happen because we have vastly underrated his athleticism to appease Brandon’s ego. Book would be more like a 4th RB at best with a 1st stringer arm.

He runs well. And that got him this far (and too far IMO).

I said in August I'm not sold that Wimbush has turned the corner. I've seen nothing since to convince me either. Good kid, bad kid, I'm not rooting for or against anyone because someone's always going to "lose" when there can only be 1.

But Book moves the chains, which gives the defense a freaking break.

 

[Irish YJ]

BW will not run below a 4.75 if he makes the NFL combine, and his agility makes Josh Adams look like Barry Sanders.

He's a really good athlete as a QB. He'd be a terrible athlete for a WR or RB IMO.

If he gets to do a NFL combine - please remind me if he runs below a 4.75. I'll eat all the crow.

BW's numbers from the Nike camp certified. While not a burner in the 40, Shuttle is damn good.

BW
40 Yard Dash: 4.62
Shuttle: 4.09

Kevin Austin (highest rated WR BK has pulled)
40 Yard Dash: 4.71
Shuttle: 4.4

CClaypool
40 Yard Dash: 4.6
Shuttle: 4.53

ADavis
40 Yard Dash: 4.58
Shuttle: 4.25

JWilkens
40 NA
Shuttle: 4.32

 

[stlnd01]

BW will not run below a 4.75 if he makes the NFL combine, and his agility makes Josh Adams look like Barry Sanders.

He's a really good athlete as a QB. He'd be a terrible athlete for a WR or RB IMO.

If he gets to do a NFL combine - please remind me if he runs below a 4.75. I'll eat all the crow.

Agree BW is best as a runner when he’s a QB, not an RB. But his 40 time doesn’t matter one bit. He sees holes and is elusive in space, with good enough speed to reel off 20 yards in a crease. I could definitely see him in the role Avery Davis currently fills (if BW can catch), taking bubble screens, swings out of the backfield, and the occasional jet sweep or reverse, with the added bonus of a cannon arm if we want to try the reverse option bomb.
In other words, he can be a weapon, without being Dexter Williams or Miles Boykin.

 

[koonja]

BW's numbers from the Nike camp certified. While not a burner in the 40, Shuttle is damn good.

BW
40 Yard Dash: 4.62
Shuttle: 4.09

Kevin Austin (highest rated WR BK has pulled)
40 Yard Dash: 4.71
Shuttle: 4.4

CClaypool
40 Yard Dash: 4.6
Shuttle: 4.53

ADavis
40 Yard Dash: 4.58
Shuttle: 4.25

JWilkens
40 NA
Shuttle: 4.32

There's no way he's currently faster than Davis or Austin. I hope we get to see him at the combine.

Regardless, as a QB he looks good running because he has wide open lanes. At RB it's completely different. He would not leave scout team as a RB.

 

[ND88]

He runs well. And that got him this far (and too far IMO).

I said in August I'm not sold that Wimbush has turned the corner. I've seen nothing since to convince me either. Good kid, bad kid, I'm not rooting for or against anyone because someone's always going to "lose" when there can only be 1.

But Book moves the chains, which gives the defense a freaking break.

So, in your analysis, Kelly was just using coach-speak to lessen the blow for Brandon when he mentioned ND needed his skill set to beat Michigan? That’s just Kelly covering his tracks and minimizing the negative affect of getting benched?

 

[koonja]

So, in your analysis, Kelly was just using coach-speak to lessen the blow for Brandon when he mentioned ND needed his skill set to beat Michigan? That’s just Kelly covering his tracks and minimizing his benching of Brandon?

We have no idea if Book would have been better/worse against Michigan. But to say BW was definitely the right call is just as incorrect. I don't really care what BK says - he's rode BW too far and if you don't believe that, watch who starts this week at QB1.

And would a coach use that to 1) keep the players engaged and 2) make it appear it was a strategic decision? Absolutely 100% yes.

 

[ND88]

For the record, I’ve never been down on Book. He has done some great things for ND, and will have more great moments. He did an incredible job against a very poor defense, and had a better skill set than Wimbush to do the job more thoroughly. He earned his spot. I’ve just been a fan long enough to have witnessed how QBs are treated at ND. The next guy is better than the one before until he isn’t. I don’t see the purpose in dragging out any of our players to up the other. I’m all for competition, but that’s just not my personal philosophy. So if Book starts underperforming and people lose their shit and start calling for our true freshman, it wouldn’t surprise me. I think he will pose some challenges for Stanford, but their defense won’t be Wake.

 

[NDdomer2]

This isn't meant to be a knock on Book. But I'm going to try and withhold some judgement until I see him do it against better comp.

Wake Forest is currently 113/129 in total D and 114/129 in passing efficiency D (120 in passing yards allowed) along with currently being tied for worst red zone D in nation.

TLR

Their D is awful.

 

[Irish YJ]

There's no way he's currently faster than Davis or Austin. I hope we get to see him at the combine.

Regardless, as a QB he looks good running because he has wide open lanes. At RB it's completely different. He would not leave scout team as a RB.

I'm not saying he's currently faster than anyone. We simply don't know. Saying he wouldn't leave the scout team is nothing but assumption based drivel with zero factual basis. We simply don't know, and won't know unless he got a chance. What we do know, is that he's good in space, has tore off some very long runs, and can make people miss. Would that translate to WR/Slot/RB, we don't know.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Ideally Phil Jurkovec comes into 3 more blowout games (Stanford, VT, USC!!!!) and then Brandon Wimbush gets every other rep that’s needed in relief. That way you can keep Brandon Wimbush relatively engaged in case Ian goes down and Phil gets his reps while preserving his eligibility. First and foremost though, Ian Book should get every snap until he really struggles. Give him a leash of 2-3 bad games like Wimbush got and make sure he has confidence to not be looking over his shoulder should he throw an interception or two.

FIFY

 

[RDU Irish]

I'd take the under on Koon's 4.75 but the larger point is you need to be sub-4.5 to be in this elite playmaker category who can't be taken off the field and will be invited to the combine. He might be closer to 4.75 than 4.5, IMO. But please, lets have some more "quicker than fast" rhetoric.

 

[IrishLax]

Brandon Wimbush is much faster than a 4.7 in straight line speed. Why we're talking about this right now in Ian Book's thread is classic Koon.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Book understands this offense and is quicker to read and react to the cues given by the defense than BW. I've said it before, Wimbush is a better athlete, while Book is just a better QB for this offense. I'm curious to see the game plan this week against Stanford with Book getting the first team reps and the game plan around his strengths. Stanfords D looked porous against Oregon. I know people think Herbert will be the top QB off the board, so it's hard to judge how he shredded them. I'm also curious to see the defensive game plan. Do you let love run wild and cover the big receivers? I'll go to the game day chat for that. Go Irish!

 

[koonja]

Brandon Wimbush is much faster than a 4.7 in straight line speed. Why we're talking about this right now in Ian Book's thread is classic Koon.

Neither of us know that but I hope we get to see it at the combine.

Do you actually think he'd be better than our 5th RB right now? Or 5th WR? If so, I'd go from "agree to disagree and you might be right", to "you're nuts".

 

[ACamp1900]

I never said use him as a running back... but yeah, we've all seen his play making ability in space. I don't like the idea of just letting that sit the side lines unless he is just completely unable to take on any special packages or adjusted roles.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm actually with Koon on this one. I'm not even convinced that Wimbush is faster than Book.

I never said use him as a running back... but yeah, we've all seen his play making ability in space. I don't like the idea of just letting that sit the side lines unless he is just completely unable to take on any special packages or adjusted roles.

"Play making ability in space" is code for "quarterback who can't throw and gets antsy when he's supposed to stand in the pocket."

It's also low-key racist. I'm not putting that on you, ACamp, I'm putting it on the way Wimbush is talked about in the media. Somebody called him "articulate" on the broadcast last week and I cringed so hard.

 

[koonja]

I'm actually with Koon on this one. I'm not even convinced that Wimbush is faster than Book.

Definitely a stronger runner. Agree I'm not sure he's faster than Book, and side to side mobility (which doesn't matter for QB but since we're entertaining overall athleticism), also not sure on him vs. Book.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I know that I'm only contributing to this digression but... seriously, guys? Go to the 0:46 mark. Does that look like tight end level speed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km9qlsXiHU4

 

[wizards8507]

I know that I'm only contributing to this digression but... seriously, guys? Go to the 0:46 mark. Does that look like tight end level speed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km9qlsXiHU4

It's tight end level agility at least. Look at the "juke" on the 46 yard line. That's a great way to blow out your knee. Also, look at CB #21 on the bottom of the screen towards the end of the run. He's keeping the pace at a casual jog.