'15 FL ATH Dexter Williams (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[arrowryan]

Lol, so in our pursuit of 85, we lose a 5th year starting DE, a 5th year starting corner, and a senior starting RB, who was going to break out this year at a position that is thin.


It's honestly so ND that it's too funny to get upset about.

Yeah, as someone posted above, Hayes and Watkins packed their bags because they simply lost their starting spots. Dex is still on the team, but people have been saying he's going to break out for 3 years now. I don't have my hopes up.

 

[koonja]

Yeah, as someone posted above, Hayes and Watkins packed their bags because they simply lost their starting spots. Dex is still on the team, but people have been saying he's going to break out for 3 years now. I don't have my hopes up.

We can say they wouldn't be starting, but even if that's the case, these 3 were going to play a hell of a lot of big time snaps for ND this fall.

Watkins was the best looking corner in spring according to some. Matt Freeman, post-Jay Hayes transfer, said Jay Hayes would have started against Michigan. Even if they're not starting, the fact that they're expected to by some means they're playing a big role this year.

These are huge losses to a defense that finally had quality depth, let's not kid ourselves. Losing Dexter after losing Adams to the draft, and CJ Holmes to a mistake speaks for itself.

 

[arrowryan]

We can say they wouldn't be starting, but even if that's the case, these 3 were going to play a hell of a lot of big time snaps for ND this fall.

Watkins was the best looking corner in spring according to some. Matt Freeman, post-Jay Hayes transfer, said Jay Hayes would have started against Michigan. Even if they're not starting, the fact that they're expected to by some means they're playing a big role this year.

These are huge losses to a defense that finally had quality depth, let's not kid ourselves. Losing Dexter after losing Adams to the draft, and CJ Holmes to a mistake speaks for itself.

It isn't "had", its "has". This defense is still looking deeper and stronger than it has in a while.

 

[koonja]

It isn't "had", its "has". This defense is still looking deeper and stronger than it has in a while.

That's true. But we had the chance for our quality of depth on defense to be "elite", not just "better than our average of seasons past", which has never been good enough. I guess "better than last year" is a low bar for a team to live by when it's never good enough to contend, IMO.

 

[arrowryan]

That's true. But we had the chance for our quality of depth on defense to be "elite", not just "better than our average of seasons past", which has never been good enough. I guess "better than last year" is a low bar for a team to live by when it's never good enough to contend, IMO.

I don't think Watkins and Hayes put the defense in the "elite" category for depth as neither of them are probably future NFL draft picks.

 

[koonja]

I don't think Watkins and Hayes put the defense in the "elite" category for depth as neither of them are probably future NFL draft picks.

They don't need to be high draft picks to make the quality of depth Elite.

Who would you rather have as your 2nd string DE taking ~300 reps this year? Kahlid Kareem who is a GREAT backup? Or Ade, who's never played college football? When you can bring in a back up like Kahlid who's arguably better than your starter, that's when you have elite depth.

Who would you rather have as your 4th corner, one of Troy Pride/Shaun Crawford/Nick Watkins, or Donte Vaughn who also didn't play last year? Same thing - say Watkins is your 4th starter. When he's arguably as good as any corner and you can bring him in at 4, that's elite depth.

It's about having those 2nd and 3rd level players be legit players. We knew we'd have that if Kahlid is the backup and Ade is the 3, we do not know what he have at 2, and we don't even have one at 3 now.

Same for corner. Same now for running back. These are massive losses to the quality of our depth, and it would have been Elite for the first time since 1990s IMO.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

They don't need to be high draft picks to make the quality of depth Elite.

Who would you rather have as your 2nd string DE taking ~300 reps this year? Kahlid Kareem who is a GREAT backup? Or Ade, who's never played college football? When you can bring in a back up like Kahlid who's arguably better than your starter, that's when you have elite depth.

Who would you rather have as your 4th corner, one of Troy Pride/Shaun Crawford/Nick Watkins, or Donte Vaughn who also didn't play last year? Same thing - say Watkins is your 4th starter. When he's arguably as good as any corner and you can bring him in at 4, that's elite depth.

It's about having those 2nd and 3rd level players be legit players. We knew we'd have that if Kahlid is the backup and Ade is the 3, we do not know what he have at 2, and we don't even have one at 3 now.

Same for corner. Same now for running back. These are massive losses to the quality of our depth, and it would have been Elite for the first time since 1990s IMO.

Is Kuehnja STILL going on about Jay/Nick??

Dude, this is what happens when you oversign/recruit well. You act like young guys passing vets doesn't normally lead to grad transfers.

Why are you surprised by any of this?

 

[snoopdog]

They don't need to be high draft picks to make the quality of depth Elite.

Who would you rather have as your 2nd string DE taking ~300 reps this year? Kahlid Kareem who is a GREAT backup? Or Ade, who's never played college football? When you can bring in a back up like Kahlid who's arguably better than your starter, that's when you have elite depth.

Who would you rather have as your 4th corner, one of Troy Pride/Shaun Crawford/Nick Watkins, or Donte Vaughn who also didn't play last year? Same thing - say Watkins is your 4th starter. When he's arguably as good as any corner and you can bring him in at 4, that's elite depth.

It's about having those 2nd and 3rd level players be legit players. We knew we'd have that if Kahlid is the backup and Ade is the 3, we do not know what he have at 2, and we don't even have one at 3 now.

Same for corner. Same now for running back. These are massive losses to the quality of our depth, and it would have been Elite for the first time since 1990s IMO.

Good question! Not sure if the answer is as obvious as it seems.

Personally, I would rather give up the experience for hunger and desire....but others do prefer experience.

Problem with Hayes 's decision is....he went from the frying pan to the fire. Not sure where Watkins will decide to play....but it better be a place he can start. To transfer out of a school to just rotate at another school is basically the kiss of death if you are at all thinking Sunday.

Transferring out your last year is almost always a terrible decision....so IMO these players decision making shows that they aren't mature enough to be leaders on a team with playoff aspirations.

Dexter is a different kettle of fish all together.

 

[stlnd01]

Problem with Hayes 's decision is....he went from the frying pan to the fire. Not sure where Watkins will decide to play....but it better be a place he can start. To transfer out of a school to just rotate at another school is basically the kiss of death if you are at all thinking Sunday.
.

Which leads you to think Hayes’ departure wasn’t entirely about playing time. But it’s unfortunate regardless.
Anyway, Dex Williams. We really really need him. Any more clarity on what’s going on?

 

[BoredIrish]

Irish Illustrated just posted their podcast... included in the description is "More running back trouble?".

I'm at work and haven't had a chance to listen as yet... anyone know what was said?

 

[arrowryan]

Irish Illustrated just posted their podcast... included in the description is "More running back trouble?".

I'm at work and haven't had a chance to listen as yet... anyone know what was said?

Just started listening now. Will share if they say anything.

The podcast group seems to think its just message board rumors and they have nothing to report. They talked about team policies/rules and how much time he'd miss IF he got into trouble.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Basically they know nothing, but said usually where there's smoke there's fire. So they probably have been reading IE.

 

[IrishLion]

If he's in trouble legitimately, then it's 4 games as per ND policy.

If he's in trouble with the staff but the university doesn't have their official fingerprints on it, it's up to BK about how long he's in the doghouse.

We may not know either way until game 5, though. They don't have to comment publicly or give definitive info either way, kind of like Stepherson last year. So we'll see what his reps in fall camp look like, as well as if he's on the field at all in the first four games.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Basically they know nothing, but said usually where there's smoke there's fire. So they probably have been reading IE.

Or in this case, where there's fire, there's smoke.

 

[Irishize]

If he's in trouble legitimately, then it's 4 games as per ND policy.

If he's in trouble with the staff but the university doesn't have their official fingerprints on it, it's up to BK about how long he's in the doghouse.

We may not know either way until game 5, though. They don't have to comment publicly or give definitive info either way, kind of like Stepherson last year. So we'll see what his reps in fall camp look like, as well as if he's on the field at all in the first four games.

Correct.

Just listened to the podcast. O’Malley & Sampson narrowed it down to 3 things IIRC:

1. If Dexter was caught w/ weed again (or tested positive), he’ll be in line for the 4-game suspension (33% of the games as per University rule) ala Stepherson last season. The violation won’t be announced per privacy law but we can assume it’ll have been weed since he’s already been popped once before & the 4-game suspension is for 2nd drug violations.

2. If it’s grades, it will be announced by the University so we should know...podcast just didn’t give much idea of a timeline as to when.

3. We know he’s not in trouble w/ the law b/c had he been arrested, it would be public info.

All 3 on the podcast agreed, w/ ND lately, “where there’s smoke, there’s fire”

They also noted that Denson has really struggled on the recruitment trail when you consider all the kids that have ended up in off-the-field trouble.

 

[ND88]

They also noted that Denson has really struggled on the recruitment trail when you consider all the kids that have ended up in off-the-field trouble.

Has he though? If so, I am assuming they mean as far as RBs go.

Didn’t he have a hand in Coney’s recruitment, among other better players (Adams; etc.)?

Denson is all class and I’m glad he’s at ND.

I think he sees the best in his players, and fully believes in their abilities to rise up to the challenges, mistakes and all.

 

[stlnd01]

Has he though? If so, I am assuming they mean as far as RBs go.

Didn’t he have a hand in Coney’s recruitment, among other better players (Adams; etc.)?

Denson is all class and I’m glad he’s at ND.

I think he sees the best in his players, and fully believes in their abilities to rise up to the challenges, mistakes and all.

I like Denson, too, and I don’t really have any problem with his recruiting (Florida’s hard, and losing Stepp last year wasn’t his fault).
But if we lose three out of four returning RBs to disciplinary issues in one offseason, doesn’t that reflect at least somewhat on the RB coach? He is the person with primary day-to-day responsibility for that position group. Not just on the field but off it. Would seem like spotting and heading off trouble before it gets to this point is part of the job.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

August really came early this year

 

[Henges24]

What's the deal with McIntosh/Holmes? Is it fair to assume that there are still possibilities of a return for both of them since they haven't officially transferred anywhere yet?

 

[Crazy Balki]

We can say they wouldn't be starting, but even if that's the case, these 3 were going to play a hell of a lot of big time snaps for ND this fall.

Watkins was the best looking corner in spring according to some. Matt Freeman, post-Jay Hayes transfer, said Jay Hayes would have started against Michigan. Even if they're not starting, the fact that they're expected to by some means they're playing a big role this year.

These are huge losses to a defense that finally had quality depth, let's not kid ourselves. Losing Dexter after losing Adams to the draft, and CJ Holmes to a mistake speaks for itself.

Those positions still have quality depth, so they aren't HUGE losses. They suck, but ND is able to overcome them because of guys like Ade/Kareem or Pride.

Also, while Matt did believe Hayes would start, I believe Kelly stated that Kareem was emerging as the starter prior to Hayes transferring. Matt sees the team more than we do, but at the end of the day they still only see a small fraction of spring practice.

 

[SoIll]

Should be having finals this week, I believe.

Per in his Instagram..

Sunday he was working out on sand-dunes somewhere? (which I guess could be in Indiana)

Yesterday, he was relaxing in Centerville, Ohio?

Strange

 

[IrishLax]

What's the deal with McIntosh/Holmes? Is it fair to assume that there are still possibilities of a return for both of them since they haven't officially transferred anywhere yet?

I think the odds are higher for McIntosh than Holmes at this point. As of right now, I expect CJ to transfer and Deon to rejoin but neither situation is settled.

 

[Rack Em]

I think the odds are higher for McIntosh than Holmes at this point. As of right now, I expect CJ to transfer and Deon to rejoin but neither situation is settled.

We're still over the scholarship limit. I'm assuming a few unknown transfers will happen before Deon would rejoin the team?

 

[IrishLax]

We're still over the scholarship limit. I'm assuming a few unknown transfers will happen before Deon would rejoin the team?

IMO, scholarship situation will be fine. It's never an issue, and it won't start being an issue this year... you'll see some transfers and/or medicals over the summer. Most kids like to finish out spring ball and their semester before making/announcing those decisions.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I guess I always figured Holmes would have the better chance of coming back, not Deon

 

[NDMIA]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former Notre Dame running back CJ Holmes could have shoplifiting charges against him dismissed come July if he stays out of trouble between now and then. <a href="https://t.co/5G8vwVbxbU">https://t.co/5G8vwVbxbU</a></p>— Angelo Di Carlo (@angdicarlo) <a href="https://twitter.com/angdicarlo/status/958835460251488257?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 31, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
This sort of works as a reinstatement guideline in the fact that if CJ Holmes stays out of trouble during the spring then he has all the shoplifting charges dropped July 2nd. He may be on his way to another school by then, but maybe he passes that test and comes back for summer ball. But this is a total guess btw

 

[stlnd01]

Do we have any idea what Deon McIntosh did? Would seem hard to assess his ability to come back without knowing that.

 

[SeekNDestroy]

McIntosh

McIntosh

He allegedly was caught with a prostitute at the bowl game.

 

[NDinMI]

He allegedly was caught with a prostitute at the bowl game.

Good lord. I always wondered what the deal was. If this is true this is pretty sad, but really funny. Could you imagine being the coach doing the check in or lights out or whatever the procedure is LOL.

 

[Crazy Balki]

He allegedly was caught with a prostitute at the bowl game.

Guess the ladies at ND aren't putting out as much as they are at Miami or FSU.