'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[stlnd01]

Can't find the post but I recall Sherm convinced that Kizer would be a first rounder.

Peter Schrager on Foxsports agrees. He picked Kizer, "pro ready coming from a Kelly offense," to go to Cleveland on the 12th pick. Claims pro teams like him better than Watson, 13th pick, Arizona. First QB taken Mitchell Trubisky UNC to the Jets, 6th pick.

So he's fucked, you're saying.
I think Kizer's got all the tools in the world but if you take him ahead of Watson you're high.

 

[BobbyMac]

So he's fucked, you're saying.
I think Kizer's got all the tools in the world but if you take him ahead of Watson you're high.

In your opinion he'd be picking the lesser QB but it's far from being high which indicates it's completely outside of the accepted group thought. Taking the QB from Kiffin would be a pick that you could question his sobriety.

 

[GATTACA!]

So he's fucked, you're saying.
I think Kizer's got all the tools in the world but if you take him ahead of Watson you're high.

Watson doesn't protect the ball and has a noodle arm. Any GM that has Watson over Kizer should be looking for work.

 

[dwshade]

I love Watson as a college QB. Not so much as a pro. Think his flaws will get exposed at the next level.

 

[BGIF]

So he's fucked, you're saying.
I think Kizer's got all the tools in the world but if you take him ahead of Watson you're high.

Those were Schrager's comments.

If Kizer ends up at Cleveland he'll make a bundle off ACamp buying his jersey for his cats.

 

[stlnd01]

Watson has done nothing but win for three years at Clemson. If you're drafting a QB in the first half of the first round, it's to play soon. If that's the case I'll take the guy who has won on the biggest stage over the guy who still makes a lot of mistakes when things get hard.

 

[MNIrishman]

Watson has done nothing but win for three years at Clemson. If you're drafting a QB in the first half of the first round, it's to play soon. If that's the case I'll take the guy who has won on the biggest stage over the guy who still makes a lot of mistakes when things get hard.

So the Manziel argument?

 

[longliveautrydenson]

Watson has done nothing but win for three years at Clemson. If you're drafting a QB in the first half of the first round, it's to play soon. If that's the case I'll take the guy who has won on the biggest stage over the guy who still makes a lot of mistakes when things get hard.

Ugh. I don't know if Kizer is going to be a good pro, but how many failed QBs does it take to realize that college success/wins doesn't necessarily translate to NFL wins. Give me Kizer's measurables and intellect over Watson's "he's a gamer"-ness 99 times out of 100. The "all he does is win" argument is the product of a bygone, intellectually bankrupt era where people seriously believed Johnny Manziel could be a legit starting NFL QB.

 

[dwshade]

Ugh. I don't know if Kizer is going to be a good pro, but how many failed QBs does it take to realize that college success/wins doesn't necessarily translate to NFL wins. Give me Kizer's measurables and intellect over Watson's "he's a gamer"-ness 99 times out of 100. The "all he does is win" argument is the product of a bygone, intellectually bankrupt era where people seriously believed Johnny Manziel could be a legit starting NFL QB.

Agreed. All Tim Tebow did was win but he wasn't a pro QB.

 

[woolybug25]

Haha... well, you fellas handled that argument. Stlnd01 is like...

 

[GATTACA!]

Watson has done nothing but win for three years at Clemson. If you're drafting a QB in the first half of the first round, it's to play soon. If that's the case I'll take the guy who has won on the biggest stage over the guy who still makes a lot of mistakes when things get hard.

Vince Young

Matt Leinart

Tim Tebow

Johnny Manziel

Troy Smith

Jamarcus Russell

Need me to keep going?

 

[Rocket89]

Ugh. I don't know if Kizer is going to be a good pro, but how many failed QBs does it take to realize that college success/wins doesn't necessarily translate to NFL wins. Give me Kizer's measurables and intellect over Watson's "he's a gamer"-ness 99 times out of 100. The "all he does is win" argument is the product of a bygone, intellectually bankrupt era where people seriously believed Johnny Manziel could be a legit starting NFL QB.

Actually, you're both wrong.

Or, at least oversimplifying both quarterbacks. Preferring Watson because "he wins" is just as much a product of a bygone era as preferring Kizer because of "measureables."

Experience and accuracy are the best indicators for college quarterbacks finding success in the NFL. The larger sample size of proven NFL-level accuracy the better chance you have to start in the NFL.

 

[ACamp1900]

Why say anything?

Thanks coach....

Brian Kelly: DeShone Kizer should have stayed in school - NFL.com

 

[woolybug25]

Why say anything?

Thanks coach....

Brian Kelly: DeShone Kizer should have stayed in school - NFL.com

Interestingly enough, the commentators in the clip actually used it as evidence of Kizer's maturity. They mentioned that they haven't heard boo from Kizer blaming the staff or Notre Dame for any of our struggles this year. He hasn't been anything but a model citizen.

 

[IrishLion]

Interestingly enough, the commentators in the clip actually used it as evidence of Kizer's maturity. They mentioned that they haven't heard boo from Kizer blaming the staff or Notre Dame for any of our struggles this year. He hasn't been anything but a model citizen.

Makes it even more head-scratching for Kelly to say anything along those lines.

If Kizer defends himself, he'll be labelled as having "baggage" or some nonsense. So for now, he's got to ride it out and explain in private meetings that his former coach often suffers from lapses in judgement.

 

[kmoose]

Why say anything?

Thanks coach....

Brian Kelly: DeShone Kizer should have stayed in school - NFL.com

Much ado about nothing, if you ask me. I have to assume that Kelly was asked about Kizer and responded. I'm going to assume that Kelly gave an honest assessment of Kizer. Maybe he was a little harsh (I don't know if he was or not), but maybe Kizer earned it? I've never heard anything really bad about Kizer, but maybe he was telling Kelly that he would be back, and then went and declared for the draft? That might be the "off the field" growth that Kelly referred to. Either way, we will know the truth of the matter in a few years. And nothing Kelly said is going to change that result, one way or the other.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Much ado about nothing, if you ask me. I have to assume that Kelly was asked about Kizer and responded. I'm going to assume that Kelly gave an honest assessment of Kizer. Maybe he was a little harsh (I don't know if he was or not), but maybe Kizer earned it? I've never heard anything really bad about Kizer, but maybe he was telling Kelly that he would be back, and then went and declared for the draft? That might be the "off the field" growth that Kelly referred to. Either way, we will know the truth of the matter in a few years. And nothing Kelly said is going to change that result, one way or the other.

Not a good look (for the program, for recruits, for whoever) when your college coach shits on you publicly like that while a lot of other coaches around the country talk their players up so much. Kelly's been around long enough to know that's the deal. This is a much worse look for Kelly than it is for Kizer.

 

[kmoose]

Not a good look (for the program, for recruits, for whoever) when your college coach shits on you publicly like that while a lot of other coaches around the country talk their players up so much. Kelly's been around long enough to know that's the deal. This is a much worse look for Kelly than it is for Kizer.

I keep hearing about how Kelly is doing all of these things that are going to piss off players and recruits.......... but his players support him almost to a man, and the recruiting classes continue to rank highly. So maybe, just maybe, we are over-blowing this whole "bad look" mantra that we are (constantly)trying to hang on Kelly?

ETA: Since when it is "$hitting on a player", if the evaluation is an honest one? This is what the Liberals have done to us: If you say anything other good things about someone, you are "$hitting on them".

 

[NorthDakota]

I keep hearing about how Kelly is doing all of these things that are going to piss off players and recruits.......... but his players support him almost to a man, and the recruiting classes continue to rank highly. So maybe, just maybe, we are over-blowing this whole "bad look" mantra that we are (constantly)trying to hang on Kelly?

I'm a Kelly apologist big-time, but I could be named the head coach of Notre Dame and recruit. The Golden Dome may have lost some luster, but it's still Notre Dame.

I will take the good with the bad. Hopefully Kizer does well, and CBK snags us a natty.

 

[dwshade]

Makes it even more head-scratching for Kelly to say anything along those lines.

If Kizer defends himself, he'll be labelled as having "baggage" or some nonsense. So for now, he's got to ride it out and explain in private meetings that his former coach often suffers from lapses in judgement.

Kelly didn't say anything that anyone else hasn't said. Everyone knows these QB's are far from finished products. Scouts, GM.s and coaches know they aren't ready. Essentially that's all Kelly was saying and he noted when Kizer gets more experience under his belt he's going to be a great QB. Read Kelly's final comments. Totally positive for Kizer. Much ado about absolutely nothing.

 

[dwshade]

Why say anything?

Thanks coach....

Brian Kelly: DeShone Kizer should have stayed in school - NFL.com

He was asked a question and he answered it. Read the final paragraph and it's glowing report from Kelly on Kizer. And everything he said in conversation was true.

 

[stlnd01]

Ugh. I don't know if Kizer is going to be a good pro, but how many failed QBs does it take to realize that college success/wins doesn't necessarily translate to NFL wins. Give me Kizer's measurables and intellect over Watson's "he's a gamer"-ness 99 times out of 100. The "all he does is win" argument is the product of a bygone, intellectually bankrupt era where people seriously believed Johnny Manziel could be a legit starting NFL QB.

OK. Watson's numbers are also better than Kizer's. QB rating, completion percentage, nearly across the board. (Watson did throw more picks last year)

Deshaun Watson Stats, News, Videos, Pictures, Bio - Clemson Tigers - ESPN
DeShone Kizer Stats, News, Videos, Pictures, Bio - Notre Dame Fighting Irish - ESPN

Kizer may have better raw tools. And in the long run Kizer might be a better QB with the proper development. But Watson's not Johnny Manziel or Tim Tebow or Jamarcus Russell. He's a high-character young man with a big arm who has played, and won, consistently on a big stage. I'm not sure what more you want from a QB.

And if I'm drafting a guy to play in the next year or two - which most teams in the top half of the draft have to at least consider - I'd take Watson. Besides maybe size, I'm not clear what the argument is for taking Kizer ahead of Watson. What is it?

 

[NDPhilly]

Why say anything?

Thanks coach....

Brian Kelly: DeShone Kizer should have stayed in school - NFL.com

I'm sure Kizer's former teammates will love this.

 

[dwshade]

I'm sure Kizer's former teammates will love this.

Why?

 

[NDPhilly]

Why?

Sarcasm. I agree with Kelly but he shouldn't say this shit in the public, even if it's true. He should be selling his former players regardless of their decisions. The players will like him a hell of a lot more if he all he does is praise them in public like Dabo. BK has enough of an image issue already without this shit. He just comes off like an asshole here.

 

[pkt77242]

OK. Watson's numbers are also better than Kizer's. QB rating, completion percentage, nearly across the board. (Watson did throw more picks last year)

Deshaun Watson Stats, News, Videos, Pictures, Bio - Clemson Tigers - ESPN
DeShone Kizer Stats, News, Videos, Pictures, Bio - Notre Dame Fighting Irish - ESPN

Kizer may have better raw tools. And in the long run Kizer might be a better QB with the proper development. But Watson's not Johnny Manziel or Tim Tebow or Jamarcus Russell. He's a high-character young man with a big arm who has played, and won, consistently on a big stage. I'm not sure what more you want from a QB.

And if I'm drafting a guy to play in the next year or two - which most teams in the top half of the draft have to at least consider - I'd take Watson. Besides maybe size, I'm not clear what the argument is for taking Kizer ahead of Watson. What is it?

Watson is a great college QB that might become a good pro QB but you are overlooking a lot of his weaknesses. He only had to read half the field in college, many of his passes were short, and doesn't go through progressions. Here is a good critique of Watson.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-deshaun-watson-qb-clemson/

 

[DONTH8]

Sarcasm. I agree with Kelly but he shouldn't say this shit in the public, even if it's true. He should be selling his former players regardless of their decisions. The players will like him a hell of a lot more if he all he does is praise them in public like Dabo. BK has enough of an image issue already without this shit. He just comes off like an asshole here.

But then again, let's say Kizer goes to the NFL and sucks. Then Kelly's word/opinion is going to be tainted, and then when Wimbush leaves for the NFL people will take Kelly's word with a grain of salt even if he truly is great. You could say that being honest and straight forward has it's benefits and will help out future prospects.

If you argue that GM's could care less about what coaches say, then all of this has much to do about nothing and we are arguing for no good reason.

Now, if you want to argue that the mantra "If you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all" applies here, then I wouldn't argue that. But I think if I was a player, it's nice to know that NFL GM's will believe a coach is being honest, rather than BSing me all the time. And as a player, I would just work my butt off to be a great player that garners Coach Kelly's praise. That's a recipe for success.

 

[IrishLax]

Sarcasm. I agree with Kelly but he shouldn't say this shit in the public, even if it's true. He should be selling his former players regardless of their decisions. The players will like him a hell of a lot more if he all he does is praise them in public like Dabo. BK has enough of an image issue already without this shit. He just comes off like an asshole here.

The whole problem is Kelly's phrasing. He's effectively been saying the same thing over and over in interviews => Kizer has tons of upside, would draft him as top QB, but he's not going to be ready to play day 1 and needs work. This is an incredibly reasonable take.

Only in this interview, Kelly adds "should still be in school" implying he made an incorrect decision and adds that he also needs to work on stuff "off the field" which can be taken to mean character concern. It's careless word choice that completely changes how his statement is read. This kind of crap has plagued Kelly for awhile, he is constantly sticking his foot in his mouth. And frankly the fact that his bad word choice allows places to write full articles that can be used to make him look like an asshole and neg recruit is a big problem. He's been doing a very bad job of managing his image for awhile now.

 

[phgreek]

Not a good look (for the program, for recruits, for whoever) when your college coach shits on you publicly like that while a lot of other coaches around the country talk their players up so much. Kelly's been around long enough to know that's the deal. This is a much worse look for Kelly than it is for Kizer.

...Yea...what Kelly said is right on, IMHO. But for the reasons you state, that discussion is one he should have with GMs, not media. I mark this one as misplayed by BK.

 

[Calabrese's People]

The whole problem is Kelly's phrasing. He's effectively been saying the same thing over and over in interviews => Kizer has tons of upside, would draft him as top QB, but he's not going to be ready to play day 1 and needs work. This is an incredibly reasonable take.

Only in this interview, Kelly adds "should still be in school" implying he made an incorrect decision and adds that he also needs to work on stuff "off the field" which can be taken to mean character concern. It's careless word choice that completely changes how his statement is read. This kind of crap has plagued Kelly for awhile, he is constantly sticking his foot in his mouth. And frankly the fact that his bad word choice allows places to write full articles that can be used to make him look like an asshole and neg recruit is a big problem. He's been doing a very bad job of managing his image for awhile now.

TRUTH!