'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[IrishLax]

So who plays when we are blowing a team out if we go the entire season with the 2 'starting' QBs? Wimbush is red-shirting and I doubt we would put MVG in (but maybe?). Do we play the freshman? Whoever is 3rd string? Or keep playing DK and MZ the entire game? Why risk an injury when the game is already out of hand?

Probably won't have to worry about ND blowing a team out but just some food for thought.

Ian Book. They said in the spring he'd be "long reliever" if needed, and mop up guy. But most likely in any blowout we're going to give the reps to whoever is on teh bottom half of the timeshare (i.e. probably Zaire).

 

[KPENN]

Temper that enthusiasm. Wimbush hasn't played yet.

Well technically he has.

 

[TheRealLynch51]

Temper that enthusiasm. Wimbush hasn't played yet.

Well, that's what they technically said about Kizer.

 

[ulukinatme]

So who plays when we are blowing a team out if we go the entire season with the 2 'starting' QBs? Wimbush is red-shirting and I doubt we would put MVG in (but maybe?). Do we play the freshman? Whoever is 3rd string (most likely)? Or keep playing DK and MZ the entire game? Why risk an injury when the game is already out of hand?

Probably won't have to worry about ND blowing a team out but just some food for thought.

MVG! MVG! MVG!

Honestly, if we're playing well enough defensively that Montgomery gets to play, BVG is going to be so pumped for the defense and his son on offense that he might fist pump into Super Saiyan mode.

 

[BobbyMac]

Thoughts?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kizer reminds me a lot of Cam at Auburn, honestly. Just need to see better accuracy and getting through reads <a href="https://t.co/qKw7lDy95L">https://t.co/qKw7lDy95L</a></p>— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/770055843962294272">August 29, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishLion]

Thoughts?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kizer reminds me a lot of Cam at Auburn, honestly. Just need to see better accuracy and getting through reads <a href="https://t.co/qKw7lDy95L">https://t.co/qKw7lDy95L</a></p>— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/770055843962294272">August 29, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I can see it... big, powerful dude that has good straight-line speed, surprisingly elusive/nimble, always seems to fall forward through contact, somehow avoids taking direct hits despite presenting a big target, and can make all the throws to top it off.

 

[johnnycando]

Cam is on a different level. Honestly.

 

[IrishLax]

Thoughts?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kizer reminds me a lot of Cam at Auburn, honestly. Just need to see better accuracy and getting through reads <a href="https://t.co/qKw7lDy95L">https://t.co/qKw7lDy95L</a></p>— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/770055843962294272">August 29, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They're very similar to me, except that Cam is vastly superior in every way. Better passer, better athlete, better arm, bigger, faster... if you made every aspect of Cam's game worse, then you have Kizer. But they have a similar "style" of skill set.

 

[DogDaysIrish]

They're very similar to me, except that Cam is vastly superior in every way. Better passer, better athlete, better arm, bigger, faster... if you made every aspect of Cam's game worse, then you have Kizer. But they have a similar "style" of skill set.

"Every party has a pooper..... That's Lax"

 

[Crazy Balki]

I think it's unfair to Kizer to say Cam is "vastly superior in every way". Current Cam sure, but I remember watching Cam throw the ball in the beginning of the 2010 season at Auburn. It was ugly, REALLY ugly. If you were to watch Cam against Mississippi State from that year, there's no way you could say Cam was a "vastly superior" passer to Kizer. It's really a testament to Malzahn that he was able to clean up Cam's mechanics so quickly, because by season's end, he was a much better passer.

Cam has come a long way since then. Last year was certainly a great year for him, but it'll be interesting to see if Cam can string together 2 straight good years, because so far he has not been able to do that. 2015 was amazing, but in 2014, Cam struggled.

In addition, Cam went into 2010 at Auburn as the undisputed starter and had all that time and all those reps to prepare, while Kizer was thrown in halfway through game 2 with virtually no meaningful practice reps. We've seen the peak of Newton's ability, while we've seen but a small sample of Kizer's potential.

 

[NDRock]

So our QB battle is between a poor man's Tebow and a poor man's Cam. We're like the poor man's 2008 Gators. Hopefully Alize's troubles stop at grades.

 

[woolybug25]

They're very similar to me, except that Cam is vastly superior in every way. Better passer, better athlete, better arm, bigger, faster... if you made every aspect of Cam's game worse, then you have Kizer. But they have a similar "style" of skill set.

I hate to echo Balki, but it is pretty unfair to compare him to the current version of Cam. One of the NFL's elite. I can't speak specifically, but I don't think Cam was significantly better than Kizer at the same age. At this age, Cam had like 100 yards career passing yards and was doing a medical redshirt. Kizer is the same age as Cam was when he was arrested for the laptop theft. An entire season before his Auburn run. Cam is also only 15 pounds heavier and maybe 1/2" taller right now as a pro. So I also don't think he was really bigger than Kizer at the same age. I'll just go on record as well, Kizer spins a better ball than a UF version of Cam.

I'm not by any means saying that he will be equal or better than Cam. That's damn high praise. But I also not endorsing that he is a shitty version of Cam. I don't think that was your intent, but it just reads that way for some reason to me.

 

[rocket66]

'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

I wonder if all of this chatter on Kizer subliminally affects the coaches at all? It always seems like BK is pretty tuned into the NFL evals. He'd look almost silly if the reigns aren't handed to Kizer at some point full time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rocket66]

I hate to echo Balki, but it is pretty unfair to compare him to the current version of Cam. One of the NFL's elite. I can't speak specifically, but I don't think Cam was significantly better than Kizer at the same age. At this age, Cam had like 100 yards career passing yards and was doing a medical redshirt. Kizer is the same age as Cam was when he was arrested for the laptop theft. An entire season before his Auburn run. Cam is also only 15 pounds heavier and maybe 1/2" taller right now as a pro. So I also don't think he was really bigger than Kizer at the same age. I'll just go on record as well, Kizer spins a better ball than a UF version of Cam.

I'm not by any means saying that he will be equal or better than Cam. That's damn high praise. But I also not endorsing that he is a shitty version of Cam. I don't think that was your intent, but it just reads that way for some reason to me.

Good post. Completely agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Irish#1]

I gave you every relevant example in the last 15 years for the most part.

Honestly, Meredith and Reeves played college ball in the 50's under completely different rules. I have no idea what the story was between them or how it is relevant to today's game. If this is indeed a small sample of the platoon QB's that both played because of how good they both were, can you enlighten us with one example that wasn't coached by Bear Bryant or died before half this board was born? I would love to go and research Meredith and Reeves, but there isn't really anything I can find online to tell me a story to confirm or deny your opinion.

If my 5 is really 2-3%, then there should be literally dozens of examples over the last 25 years. Give me one.

I was using Meredith and Reeves while they were with the Cowboys in the 60's as an example of a team that had two really good QB's. I personally don't think how the game was played back then has that much to do with it. We're discussing platooning two QB's. My point was simply you are using a recent sampling of data and I believe you need to use a broader range of data.

 

[ScooterIrish]

I remember watching Cam at Florida. Wow was he awful at throwing the football. I would have never guessed he would be an elite QB in the NFL.

 

[kmoose]

I missed Sanford saying that. Do you have a link?

Rick Mirer held a clip board when Tony Rice was running the show. Fun times, I wish more of the posters here could have seen it.

In regards to liking Malik over DK, I have a significant personal reason to feel that way BUT I don't rah rah about it. I really don't care who wins in the end as long as the team plays well. Both of these guys have the world by the short hairs and neither's lives will be adversely efected in the long run over who wins the majority of the snaps.

I saw it, and I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. In 1989, Rick Mirer was a true freshman, while Tony Rice was the returning starter from an undefeated National Championship team.... Not even remotely close to the situation that ND is in, today.

 

[woolybug25]

I was using Meredith and Reeves while they were with the Cowboys in the 60's as an example of a team that had two really good QB's. I personally don't think how the game was played back then has that much to do with it. We're discussing platooning two QB's. My point was simply you are using a recent sampling of data and I believe you need to use a broader range of data.

So my sample of pretty much every platoon QB scenario of the last 20 years isn't a big enough sample, but the only one we can come up with is one from the 60's and in the NFL? C'mon man...

Feel free not to like it, but if a one off scenario in an entirely different league and era is the only thing we can come up with to dispute, then that argument is clearly skating on thin ice.

Again, if my sample is too small and only 2-3% of the platoon systems in college football (i.e. Two good QB's, not two playing because of lack of talent or injury), then there should be dozens of examples of it not working. But here we are... Talking about two QB's that played in the NFL decades before the majority of the board were born.

 

[IrishLax]

I think it's unfair to Kizer to say Cam is "vastly superior in every way". Current Cam sure, but I remember watching Cam throw the ball in the beginning of the 2010 season at Auburn. It was ugly, REALLY ugly. If you were to watch Cam against Mississippi State from that year, there's no way you could say Cam was a "vastly superior" passer to Kizer. It's really a testament to Malzahn that he was able to clean up Cam's mechanics so quickly, because by season's end, he was a much better passer.

Well, Kizer against UVA and Kizer against Georgia Tech weren't exactly things of beauty. Overall, what Cam did in his first year as a starter as a playmaker and athlete Auburn vastly trumped what Kizer did. As a passer, they were pretty close, but Cam has better arm strength.

Cam has come a long way since then. Last year was certainly a great year for him, but it'll be interesting to see if Cam can string together 2 straight good years, because so far he has not been able to do that. 2015 was amazing, but in 2014, Cam struggled.

That's not true, he's been consistently a top producing QB since he was a rookie.

In addition, Cam went into 2010 at Auburn as the undisputed starter and had all that time and all those reps to prepare, while Kizer was thrown in halfway through game 2 with virtually no meaningful practice reps. We've seen the peak of Newton's ability, while we've seen but a small sample of Kizer's potential.

This is the most legitimate argument, but it only accounts for mechanical and mental aspects of their games... not physical ones. Cam is an inch taller, 10-15 pounds heavier, faster, and more athletic with a stronger arm. Like I said, they're very similar in style, Cam is just the super-charged Kizer.

 

[arrowryan]

This is the most legitimate argument, but it only accounts for mechanical and mental aspects of their games... not physical ones. Cam is an inch taller, 10-15 pounds heavier, faster, and more athletic with a stronger arm. Like I said, they're very similar in style, Cam is just the super-charged Kizer.

NFL Cam or college Cam? If NFL Cam, that is a little unfair since Cam is older, more physically matured, and has all the resources he could possibly want to be in that physical shape. When Kizer is 27, he could be pretty close to that too.

 

[IrishLax]

Like I'm seriously curious if people remember what Cam Newton was like athletically making plays and running the ball. He was an unstoppable force of nature. Kizer cannot do some of the stuff he did. He's just physically incapable.

 

[IrishLax]

NFL Cam or college Cam? If NFL Cam, that is a little unfair since Cam is older, more physically matured, and has all the resources he could possibly want to be in that physical shape. When Kizer is 27, he could be pretty close to that too.

No, I'm talking college Cam first year as a starter. He was 6'5" 250 doing stuff like this:
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/m2QNkgR3qdg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And when Kizer is 27, he still won't athletically be able to make those plays. He could be a better passer than Cam though.

 

[wizards8507]

Like I'm seriously curious if people remember what Cam Newton was like athletically making plays and running the ball. He was an unstoppable force of nature. Kizer cannot do some of the stuff he did. He's just physically incapable.

Yeah, this. Other than similar body types, comparing Kizer to Cam is a clown comment.

 

[IrishLion]

Yeah, this. Other than similar body types, comparing Kizer to Cam is a clown comment.

As LAX said, Kizer is a wayyyyy watered down version of Cam.

But I don't think it's necessarily a clown comment. There are a lot of similarities in how they run through/avoid contact, and how they create yards at the end of a run.

There are more comparisons, but I put them in an earlier post and I don't want to seem redundant.

 

[ScooterIrish]

Like I'm seriously curious if people remember what Cam Newton was like athletically making plays and running the ball. He was an unstoppable force of nature. Kizer cannot do some of the stuff he did. He's just physically incapable.

Like, do you remember watching him at Florida? But really I do agree, Cam is more athletically gifted.

 

[woolybug25]

No, I'm talking college Cam first year as a starter. He was 6'5" 250 doing stuff like this:
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/m2QNkgR3qdg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And when Kizer is 27, he still won't athletically be able to make those plays. He could be a better passer than Cam though.

Cam wasn't 250 back then, he's 245 right now. At Kizer's age, he was still skinny, injured and stealing laptops at Florida. He wasn't anywhere near the Cam he is today. At this point in Cam's career, he had some garbage time as a freshmen and was no where near the the talent he would become a couple years later, which isn't actually that close to where he is now. He has grown as a player. The highlights you posted are a two seasons away from where Kizer is today. Cam medical redshirted and then went to cc before Auburn.

 

[BGIF]

Thoughts?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kizer reminds me a lot of Cam at Auburn, honestly. Just need to see better accuracy and getting through reads <a href="https://t.co/qKw7lDy95L">https://t.co/qKw7lDy95L</a></p>— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) <a href="https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/770055843962294272">August 29, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

For the reading impaired or those who just like to urinate, Miller said, "... reminds me of ..."

NOT Kizer is Newton.

 

[BobbyMac]

It surprised me that Cam had a 66% completion rate at Auburn. I also didn't remember that he ran for almost 1500 yds..

I find it hard to believe Cam's mechanics were that bad being that he ended with a 66% CR.

 

[Bugzly21]

It surprised me that Cam had a 66% completion rate at Auburn. I also didn't remember that he ran for almost 1500 yds..

I find it hard to believe Cam's mechanics were that bad being that he ended with a 66% CR.

So you wouldn't be happy with the QB play if he threw 20/30 312 yds?

 

[BobbyMac]

For the reading impaired or those who just like to urinate, Miller said, "... reminds me of ..."

NOT Kizer is Newton.

Since you're quoting... "...reminds me a lot of ..."

He's comparing them, so are we.