'14 OH DT Daniel Cage (Notre Dame Signee)

[BobbyMac]

We'll see, thanks for sharing though. I think expecting him to be good to go August 1st is a stretch. Perhaps medically cleared, but with a weak leg and 15 pounds out of shape. I think that's what the II guys are getting at by saying he'll be a non factor.

He'll have minimal atrophy that will correctable with a week of today's PT.

 

[Big23Head]

He'll have minimal atrophy that will correctable with a week of today's PT.

If he had suturing and clipping of the meniscus then he actually had a combo of the repair and meniscectomy. Also, the "typical" healing timelines are for an average person not a 300# athlete attempting to move around so dynamically. Yes, he will receive great care but the recovery time may be a little optimistic.

 

[BobbyMac]

If he had suturing and clipping of the meniscus then he actually had a combo of the repair and meniscectomy. Also, the "typical" healing timelines are for an average person not a 300# athlete attempting to move around so dynamically. Yes, he will receive great care but the recovery time may be a little optimistic.

I guess it's time to fire Dr. Ratigan for giving BK the bum sauce recovery times. Hate to lose a member of the '88 NC team.

My sutures were at the end of the cup to strengthen the edge, like a hem, where they removed the damaged portion. If the tear is in the middle, then sutures are there to close a hole. Who knows without seeing it.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Kudos to Crusader for bringing a factual look into the paranoia.

Regardless of what now happens as to "GO" time, it's far better to have moderation than rumor.

 

[koonja]

Kudos to Crusader for bringing a factual look into the paranoia.

Regardless of what now happens as to "GO" time, it's far better to have moderation than rumor.

Yeah, because the 'common recovery time' should be applied to a 300+ pounder who's habitually out of shape. Not to mention the fact that he'll only be 'medically cleared', and not cleared to play physically as strength in the knee will need to be regained.

Also not to mention the fact that BK's injury outlook has proved to always error on the side of unrealistic. And also not to mention the II guys are closer to the story than any of us.

But I won't let those arguments get in the way of another passive aggressive post of yours.

 

[Big23Head]

I guess it's time to fire Dr. Ratigan for giving BK the bum sauce recovery times. Hate to lose a member of the '88 NC team.

My sutures were at the end of the cup to strengthen the edge, like a hem, where they removed the damaged portion. If the tear is in the middle, then sutures are there to close a hole. Who knows without seeing it.

That was my point. Big Lou had meniscus issues too that BK downplayed, at least for a while. I have a background in knee replacements, research and ligament/meniscus injuries. Just saying it might not be as straight forward as you stated it might be.

 

[fitz_bu47]

The truth is, none of us know w/ out seeing it and the exact details. Being in healthcare there is one universal fact I've seen w/ surgeries, everybody recovers differently, and a lot of it is up to them and how they attack the rehab. I also played in College w/ two guys who "got scoped" for a meniscus "clean up", one literally missed two games (3 weeks) the other about two months. We'll see in August.

 

[dublinirish]

The truth is, none of us know w/ out seeing it and the exact details. Being in healthcare there is one universal fact I've seen w/ surgeries, everybody recovers differently, and a lot of it is up to them and how they attack the rehab. I also played in College w/ two guys who "got scoped" for a meniscus "clean up", one literally missed two games (3 weeks) the other about two months. We'll see in August.

a guy carrying 300 lbs is gonna have a longer road though surely?

 

[BobbyMac]

That was my point. Big Lou had meniscus issues too that BK downplayed, at least for a while. I have a background in knee replacements, research and ligament/meniscus injuries. Just saying it might not be as straight forward as you stated it might be.

Point taken. Since i don't know where the sutures are, that is true. BK saying him being back by camp screams partial meniscectomy though.

I'm a quick diagnoser, I've had 5 full surgeries (3 left, 2 right) and spent 3 years having them drained weekly or after every game. Somehow, I don't have any aches and pains today minus a small click in the morning that settles down by the time I get to the coffee pot... knock on wood.

 

[NDdomer2]

Point taken. Since i don't know where the sutures are, that is true. BK saying him being back by camp screams partial meniscectomy though.

I'm a quick diagnoser, I've had 5 full surgeries (3 left, 2 right) and spent 3 years having them drained weekly or after every game. Somehow, I don't have any aches and pains today minus a small click in the morning that settles down by the time I get to the coffee pot... knock on wood.

lol was just thinking how substitue one letter there and it still jives.

 

[dshans]

Athlete or not, 300 pounds or not,20-ish or not, it behooves one and all to take the time to heal correctly.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Yeah, because the 'common recovery time' should be applied to a 300+ pounder who's habitually out of shape. Not to mention the fact that he'll only be 'medically cleared', and not cleared to play physically as strength in the knee will need to be regained.

Also not to mention the fact that BK's injury outlook has proved to always error on the side of unrealistic. And also not to mention the II guys are closer to the story than any of us.

But I won't let those arguments get in the way of another passive aggressive post of yours.

You believe the II guys know more than other people who have dealt with this type of injury? Or that BK is outright lying? What do the II guys know, the severity of the injury? I'm assuming they looked at the xrays and are comfortable diagnosing?

I think OMMs post was on point, we shouldn't start freaking out about things like this.

Malik going down in the 2nd game of the season was a reason to freak out.
Folston tearing a cruciate ligament in the first half of the first game was a reason to freak out. A relatively minor surgery on someone who was already a 50/50 chance of returning due to concussion history isn't a reason to freak out in late June.

ND has what it needs to be competitive in every game this fall. If the coaches and players do their jobs, we'll have an exciting year and I do hope Cage is a part of that.

 

[koonja]

You believe the II guys know more than other people who have dealt with this type of injury? Or that BK is outright lying? What do the II guys know, the severity of the injury? I'm assuming they looked at the xrays and are comfortable diagnosing?

I think OMMs post was on point, we shouldn't start freaking out about things like this.

Malik going down in the 2nd game of the season was a reason to freak out.
Folston tearing a cruciate ligament in the first half of the first game was a reason to freak out. A relatively minor surgery on someone who was already a 50/50 chance of returning due to concussion history isn't a reason to freak out in late June.

ND has what it needs to be competitive in every game this fall. If the coaches and players do their jobs, we'll have an exciting year and I do hope Cage is a part of that.

Yeah, I do. They talk to the coaches and players off of the record. They know Cage is habitually out of shape. They know he had the longest recovery time for anyone who's returned form concussions in the past, etc.

The WebMD that says 'typically 6 weeks' doesn't automatically apply to this situation because there are so many factors here (300+ pounds, plays DL at the D1 level, out of shape, etc.).

I also bet anyone who's had this surgery also concedes that their experience would be totally different than Cage's.

 

[ND NYC]

koon we get it. you're concerned. as are we.

time will tell.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Yeah, I do. They talk to the coaches and players off of the record. They know Cage is habitually out of shape. They know he had the longest recovery time for anyone who's returned form concussions in the past, etc.

The WebMD that says 'typically 6 weeks' doesn't automatically apply to this situation because there are so many factors here (300+ pounds, plays DL at the D1 level, out of shape, etc.).

I also bet anyone who's had this surgery also concedes that their experience would be totally different than Cage's.

Ok. I don't and I'm not freaking out. But feel free to continue, I shant stand in the way...

 

[koonja]

koon we get it. you're concerned. as are we.

time will tell.

Ok. I don't and I'm not freaking out. But feel free to continue, I shant stand in the way...

I don't understand how anyone who's followed Cage's career over the past 3 years wouldn't be extremely concerned about him having a knee procedure in June, but I'll shut up about it.

 

[fitz_bu47]

I understand the concern Koon, I am concerned too. I am honestly hoping that Daniel was in good shape when it happened and the surgery went well, and he attacks his rehab. There are a lot of ifs and moving parts, just hoping BK's report was more accurate. We shall see.

 

[AKRowdy]

Yeah, I do. They talk to the coaches and players off of the record. They know Cage is habitually out of shape. They know he had the longest recovery time for anyone who's returned form concussions in the past, etc.

The WebMD that says 'typically 6 weeks' doesn't automatically apply to this situation because there are so many factors here (300+ pounds, plays DL at the D1 level, out of shape, etc.).

I also bet anyone who's had this surgery also concedes that their experience would be totally different than Cage's.

Some people recover from concussions differently than other people. Now I do not think that would be similar to having a meniscus repair due to the fact that you are dealing with two very different organs. Also do you think having some of the best resources at ND plus having some of the best PT and probably prePT would expedite his healing process? With that being said, I doubt he's out the whole season, if it's just a meniscus tear. Also next man in, injuries happen in football. It's a team sport, Cage is good but it wasn't like he was playing every snap anyways.

 

[Rocket89]

Per II podcast, had knee surgery June 15th. They expect him to be a non factor this year.

Pete's actual quote was: "I am really concerned about Daniel Cage in terms of his ability to impact the season."

Just wanted to point out that "non-factor" wasn't uttered to my knowledge, at least. Although, I generally agree with the idea that Cage might not be much of a player this year due to injuries and one could quibble about their discussion and "non-factor." I think they mentioned if he gets 20 snaps per game that's about as good as it might get. Not quite a non-factor.

We probably can build a formula for how Kelly treats injuries, too. If he says X weeks until healthy add Y weeks on top of that.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Or Cage could redshirt this year...


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[IrishLion]

Pete's actual quote was: "I am really concerned about Daniel Cage in terms of his ability to impact the season."

Just wanted to point out that "non-factor" wasn't uttered to my knowledge, at least. Although, I generally agree with the idea that Cage might not be much of a player this year due to injuries and one could quibble about their discussion and "non-factor." I think they mentioned if he gets 20 snaps per game that's about as good as it might get. Not quite a non-factor.

We probably can build a formula for how Kelly treats injuries, too. If he says X weeks until healthy add Y weeks on top of that.

20 snaps per game could mean we've got a decent early-down run defender, as long as there isn't the threat of sustained no-huddle from the opposition.

 

[Luckylucci]

Or Cage could redshirt this year...


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Unless we see some fairly drastic improvement from Cage, I'm not sure why you'd ask him back. We need to find guys that can give more than just 15-20 snaps a game MAX, and he hasn't even been all that consistent with those snaps. He just hasn't been able to consistently stay in shape and give the production we expected. Next season we'll have Tillery/Ewell/Franklin at NT. By that time, I'd be shocked if Ewell isn't playing at a similar level to what Cage has been doing. Give him those reps and let us work with guys that have, potentially, higher ceilings. Need a youth movement along the DL to some degree. We'll have 4 juniors at WDE/SDE. We'll have a senior at NT. There will plenty of leadership or upperclassmen in that room to take charge.

Some of this is predicated on how other players produce, or lack thereof, this fall, but I just don't see it happening.

 

[BobbyMac]

Unless we see some fairly drastic improvement from Cage, I'm not sure why you'd ask him back. We need to find guys that can give more than just 15-20 snaps a game MAX, and he hasn't even been all that consistent with those snaps. He just hasn't been able to consistently stay in shape and give the production we expected. Next season we'll have Tillery/Ewell/Franklin at NT. By that time, I'd be shocked if Ewell isn't playing at a similar level to what Cage has been doing. Give him those reps and let us work with guys that have, potentially, higher ceilings. Need a youth movement along the DL to some degree. We'll have 4 juniors at WDE/SDE. We'll have a senior at NT. There will plenty of leadership or upperclassmen in that room to take charge.

Some of this is predicated on how other players produce, or lack thereof, this fall, but I just don't see it happening.

Tillery
Ewell
Tiassum
Franklin

You can get by with that. If Tillery somehow went to the NFL... I'd have to ask Cage back if he's healthy enough to give you those 20 snaps unless Ewell is a Freshman AA candidate and Tiassum could give you Cage like snaps.

It would be a strange world for NDC if it came down to a time when I hoped Tiassum didn't transfer.

I want as much room in '19 as possible at DT to go after some difference makers.

 

[Wingman Ray]

If Tillery somehow went to the NFL...

The ONLY way Tillery is going to see a NFL game is by purchasing a ticket.

Seriously, this guy hasnt done jack! I cannot think of one big time team this guy would be starting at.

Of course saying that, I can only wonder what would have happened had he went to LSU with their history of producing D lineman. My guess is based on the Tillery we have seen to be a career benchwarmer on the hamburger squad.

 

[Luckylucci]

The ONLY way Tillery is going to see a NFL game is by purchasing a ticket.

Seriously, this guy hasnt done jack! I cannot think of one big time team this guy would be starting at.

Of course saying that, I can only wonder what would have happened had he went to LSU with their history of producing D lineman. My guess is based on the Tillery we have seen to be a career benchwarmer on the hamburger squad.

Well that's certainly not true. He has 49 tackles and 5.5 TFL's through his Sophomore year. I would agree if you said we haven't gotten the production we thought we would yet, but he's still got 2 years left to show it on the field. And as of today, I don't think he's an NFL flight risk player. However, the bolded statement just makes you look like you have an agenda.

 

[Luckylucci]

DT production through their 1st 2 seasons.
- Sheldon Day 56 tackles, 9 TFL's, 2.5 sacks
- Jarron Jones 60 tackles, 8.5 TFL's, 2.5 sacks

Walter Football's top rated NT's going into the 2017 draft (production through their Sophomore seasons)
- Montravius Adams 62, 8.5 TFL's, and 4 sacks
- Carlos Watkins 18 tackles, 2.5 TFL's, and 0 sacks
- Caleb Brantly 49 tackles, 11 TFL's, and 3 sacks
- Jaleel Johnson 12 tackles, 3 TFL's, and 1.5 sacks

So, he's not putting up great numbers but those are respectable numbers for where he's at in his development. He needs to take that next step, but he's not far off some recently drafted NFL players.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Tillers is playing out of position. He is a 3 technique, not a nose.


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[dad4aa]

Rumor is Cage has left the team so we will have another scholarship to fill.

 

[zelezo vlk]

With all his injuries, this isn't a big surprise, but it hurts

 

[IrishLax]

Rumor is Cage has left the team so we will have another scholarship to fill.

This is news to me. Nice pull if you got this before anyone else.