'11 SC QB Everett Golson (FSU transfer)

[bkess8]

65% is incredibly run heavy in today's game. Oregon has been at 58% the last couple years, Ohio State 62%, and Auburn nearly 65%.

To even sniff north of 60% we'd need to see an entire year of gameplans using Zaire similarly to the bowl game AND we'd have to dominate to the point where we'd be cruising in the 4th quarter in 9 or 10 games a year.

Got it 65% is high but I think if we implement more runs for Bryant, Prosise and MZ we can bring that number north of 55%. Higher run percentages in my mind helps our defense and it was a successful game plan that worked against LSU that I would like to see utilized next season.

 

[bkess8]

Warren Sapp



65/35 seems a tad extreme IMO. I don't think you need to favor the run as much, but it should be used A LOT more effectively. Use it to setup the pass and to burn clock when needed. We have the skill at the right positions to impose our will on offense against 95% of the teams out there. Kelly isn't stupid. Stubborn, yes, but not stupid. I think we'll see some jaw dropping stuff (in a good way) next season. As always, the real issue will be the D and whether or not BVG puts the team in a position to succeed.

Agree 100% with this statement and I think that led to some bad play calling last year. Kelly trying to force the pass to often instead of utilizing the run. I am not a HC of a major college program or hell even a pee wee football program but balance is the key to success IMO, it keeps the defense guessing, harder to game plan for, keeps players fresh for the whole 4 quarters, and allows us to control the game.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

The question for BK is whether Zaire can improve his passing acumen vs Golson shoring up his turnovers. Golson has the leg up b/c of game experience. Zaire does edge him on his ability to run the read option effectively. As bad as Golson's turnovers were, the Northwestern, Louisville & SCum losses were Team losses IMO. His pass/int ratio was still +11 IIRC. To be fair, not every pick was on EG...but to also be fair, those fumbles are just as damning. I'm not ready to give up on EG, but if he chooses to give up on ND, then I wish him well.

 

[ulukinatme]

I guess it would be fine if Golson stuck around in a backup role, but we don't really need 4 scholarship QBs and I don't like the prospect of Golson starting another season. He's too "feast or famine" for my tastes, and he's just not the vocal leader we could use on the field.

If Golson starts in 2014 there's no guarantee he'll be improved when it comes to turnovers, and then no matter what he's gone next year. Having Golson receive most of the snaps will just impede Zaire's development, and I think he's the steady QB and leader that we need.

 

[Irish#1]

The question for BK is whether Zaire can improve his passing acumen vs Golson shoring up his turnovers. Golson has the leg up b/c of game experience. Zaire does edge him on his ability to run the read option effectively. As bad as Golson's turnovers were, the Northwestern, Louisville & SCum losses were Team losses IMO. His pass/int ratio was still +11 IIRC. To be fair, not every pick was on EG...but to also be fair, those fumbles are just as damning. I'm not ready to give up on EG, but if he chooses to give up on ND, then I wish him well.

No argument there, but if I remember correctly the team attitude and performance picked up in practice when it became apparent MZ was going to get some playing time. Thus the teams poor performance in those games could be due to Golson and his TO's. It wears on you mentally when you play hard and one person keeps giving opportunities away but still gets to stay in the game.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Again, random opinions, but what-the-heck, this is a dead season:

1). Intuitively I saw a MUCH more instinctive football player in Malik than in Everett;
2). Intuitively I saw a MUCH more mentally and emotional appropriate football player in Malik than Everett;
3). "Rookie" quarterbacks start for college teams all the time. The trick is that they are quarterbacks not just athletes;
4). Malik should have loads of time to learn the Kelly offense and the passing progressions part of it;
5). Malik does not look like a turnover machine, even with the brief looks. As an experienced runner, he instinctively holds the ball properly. Everett instinctively does not;
6). Malik is taller than Everett, weighs more, and appears to have not only greater strength but a kind of "animal violence" and explosion in him at the point of contact;
7). Kelly is not going to stop passing the ball as his primary offensive orientation. With Malik however we should see more running by design --- this includes delayed handoffs between the tackles vs defenses worried about Malik escaping wide.

I'll stop now and wait for reality to catch up and prove my intuitions to be naive. But right now I'm hoping for Malik [or anyone] to be the starting ND quarterback rather than Everett. I desperately want ND to have a QUARTERBACK in there [we had one in Tommy, but we know where that would break down], rather than an eye-test athlete. We need FOOTBALL players, not people who are just eye-test athletes, all over the field.

 

[wizards8507]

Again, random opinions, but what-the-heck, this is a dead season:

1). Intuitively I saw a MUCH more instinctive football player in Malik than in Everett;
2). Intuitively I saw a MUCH more mentally and emotional appropriate football player in Malik than Everett;
3). "Rookie" quarterbacks start for college teams all the time. The trick is that they are quarterbacks not just athletes;
4). Malik should have loads of time to learn the Kelly offense and the passing progressions part of it;
5). Malik does not look like a turnover machine, even with the brief looks. As an experienced runner, he instinctively holds the ball properly. Everett instinctively does not;
6). Malik is taller than Everett, weighs more, and appears to have not only greater strength but a kind of "animal violence" and explosion in him at the point of contact;
7). Kelly is not going to stop passing the ball as his primary offensive orientation. With Malik however we should see more running by design --- this includes delayed handoffs between the tackles vs defenses worried about Malik escaping wide.

I'll stop now and wait for reality to catch up and prove my intuitions to be naive. But right now I'm hoping for Malik [or anyone] to be the starting ND quarterback rather than Everett. I desperately want ND to have a QUARTERBACK in there [we had one in Tommy, but we know where that would break down], rather than an eye-test athlete. We need FOOTBALL players, not people who are just eye-test athletes, all over the field.

This. All of this.

It's not about experience or evidence or statistics. It's a gut thing.

 

[greyhammer90]

It's not about experience or evidence or statistics. It's a gut thing.

"I am talking out of my ass"
-Wizards

 

[greyhammer90]

This. All of this.

It's not about experience or evidence or statistics. It's a gut thing.

When did I accuse you of being combative? Neg rep all you want.

 

[wizards8507]

"I am talking out of my ass"
-Wizards

Let me get this straight.

1. OMM posts an opinion.
2. Wiz posts that he agrees with OMM.
3. WIZ is talking out of his ass.

Did I follow your logic correctly?

 

[greyhammer90]

Let me get this straight.

1. OMM posts an opinion.
2. Wiz posts that he agrees with OMM.
3. WIZ is talking out of his ass.

Did I follow your logic correctly?

Would you like it more if I said you were both wrong? I can do that too if you'd like.

You literally said that none of your opinion had any basis in fact, that it all came from something that is biologically connected to your asshole. I'm just putting together the pieces here.

 

[Irish Insanity]

If I'm Golson I leave. As long as where I go I'm basically given the starting job. He has one shot left to make it to the NFL.

 

[wizards8507]

If I'm Golson I leave...

I think he should stay if it looks like he's going to be the starter after spring ball. I hope he stays regardless. While I believe it's time to pass the reins on to Malik, I think Golson could play an important role similar to the one Tommy played in 2012.

 

[ulukinatme]

Again, random opinions, but what-the-heck, this is a dead season:

1). Intuitively I saw a MUCH more instinctive football player in Malik than in Everett;
2). Intuitively I saw a MUCH more mentally and emotional appropriate football player in Malik than Everett;
3). "Rookie" quarterbacks start for college teams all the time. The trick is that they are quarterbacks not just athletes;
4). Malik should have loads of time to learn the Kelly offense and the passing progressions part of it;
5). Malik does not look like a turnover machine, even with the brief looks. As an experienced runner, he instinctively holds the ball properly. Everett instinctively does not;
6). Malik is taller than Everett, weighs more, and appears to have not only greater strength but a kind of "animal violence" and explosion in him at the point of contact;
7). Kelly is not going to stop passing the ball as his primary offensive orientation. With Malik however we should see more running by design --- this includes delayed handoffs between the tackles vs defenses worried about Malik escaping wide.

I'll stop now and wait for reality to catch up and prove my intuitions to be naive. But right now I'm hoping for Malik [or anyone] to be the starting ND quarterback rather than Everett. I desperately want ND to have a QUARTERBACK in there [we had one in Tommy, but we know where that would break down], rather than an eye-test athlete. We need FOOTBALL players, not people who are just eye-test athletes, all over the field.

Exactly, well said.

You know, I'll never understand the play calling in 2013 with Tommy under center. We had a very experienced OL, we had some unproven but talented backs, and yet we were throwing the ball on average 31 times a game with Tommy. 31 attempts for an average is kind of high....it's not terrible, but he missed half the USC game not to mention Hendrix came in for a few others. There were maybe a dozen schools from Power 5 conferences that passed more in 2013, but I wouldn't say many were powerhouses. We couldn't run a screen (And didn't attempt them) to save our lives, we came out passing in many games before we even got behind on the scoreboard. Should have run the ball more and rely on play action with the aggressive defenses we faced. When you're throwing the ball 30+ times a game, you're asking for interceptions as the attempts go up.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I think he should stay if it looks like he's going to be the starter after spring ball. I hope he stays regardless. While I believe it's time to pass the reigns on to Malik, I think Golson could play an important role similar to the one Tommy played in 2012.

He was the starter this year and look how that worked out down the stretch. Him and Kelly don't seem to communicate naturally. And if plays the Tommy role he'll surely have no shot at the NFL. I'd love him to stay. I just think if he's wanting a shot at the next level, leaving will give him a better chance.

 

[ShollaND]

If I'm Golson I leave. As long as where I go I'm basically given the starting job. He has one shot left to make it to the NFL.

Agreed. Even after he came back from of the Academic nonsense from last year...I can't blame him for bailing in his final year. He's an awesome athlete and there are several schools out there that would be glad to give him the starting job. He has to do what's best for him.

 

[greyhammer90]

He was the starter this year and look how that worked out down the stretch.

60% completion percentage with 33 points per game? I understand that the season didn't have the fairy tale ending that everyone wanted but this scapegoating of Golson is pretty ridiculous. I love Kelly, and he's ND's coach, but the way this season ended is on him. If Golson had been given a run/pass percentage like what was in the bowl game all year, the turnovers would have gone down and the defense would have spent more time off the field. Instead, Kelly put way too much on Golson's plate mentally and we started to see Golson break down by the end of the year. And even his breakdown wasn't as terrible as everyone seems to think. He had one truly bad game against USC, that's really it.

Rice: Killed it. (According to Wizards, the crowd was angry with Golson at this game. Just a reminder.)
Michigan: KILLED it
Purdue: Defense played like garbage, zero turnovers from Everett, 2 touchdown passes and one rushing touchdown.
Syracuse: 2 interceptions from Golson... on a day where he went 32-39 for 4 touchdowns. Yeah, I think he's alright here.
Stanford: 1 interception. On rainy, windy, freezing day where Kelly had him throw the ball 43 TIMES!?!? Oh and yes he had some late game heroics. But we wouldn't had needed them had our special teams not completely sucked all game. We would have had a comfortable 3 point lead to kill the clock with.
North Carolina: 3 turnovers. Not good. On the other hand, the offense scored 50 points, and the defense gave up 36 points to a mediocre North Carolina offense.
Florida State: He won the game.
Navy: Offense scored 49 points. Defense allowed 39. We might as well call for Jaylon to get replaced.
Arizona State: Lots of turnovers. But how many were really Everett's fault? Two interceptions were because the DL tipped the ball. Is Golson suddenly responsible for making sure his OL does their jobs? Another interception hit one of his WR's in the chest and bounced into an Arizona State players arms. The fumbles were bad but he was sacked 7 times in this game with a coach who refused to help him out and run the ball with any kind of consistency in the first half. Further, the defense gave up 41 POINTS.
Northwestern: Offense scored 40 points. Golson had 2 turnovers. One was right before half and resulted in no points for Northwestern, the other I can't remember. So, even assuming his single fumble was directly responsible for a touchdown (which I don't think it was), the defense gave up 36 points to Northwestern. Special teams also shit their pants.
Louisville: Defense got completely ran over. Offense scored 28 points against a top 5 defense, put us in a position to take it to OT and special teams shit their pants again.
USC: Bad game by Golson, bad game by the defense, bad game by the coaches.

Do I think Golson is perfect? Hell no. Do I think Golson's turnovers hurt us? Hell yes. Do I think Golson's turnovers hurt us more than a hurt defense, a nonexistent running game and a stubborn head coach? Hell no. Do I think Golson is a scapegoat by unintelligent armchair QBs who can't come to terms with the fact that we weren't a very good football team this year? Absolutely.

 

[returnofthemack]

60% completion percentage with 33 points per game? I understand that the season didn't have the fairy tale ending that everyone wanted but this scapegoating of Golson is pretty ridiculous. I love Kelly, and he's ND's coach, but the way this season ended is on him. If Golson had been given a run/pass percentage like what was in the bowl game all year, the turnovers would have gone down and the defense would have spent more time off the field. Instead, Kelly put way too much on Golson's plate mentally and we started to see Golson break down by the end of the year. And even his breakdown wasn't as terrible as everyone seems to think. He had one truly bad game against USC, that's really it.

Rice: Killed it. (According to Wizards, the crowd was angry with Golson at this game. Just a reminder.)
Michigan: KILLED it
Purdue: Defense played like garbage, zero turnovers from Everett, 2 touchdown passes and one rushing touchdown.
Syracuse: 2 interceptions from Golson... on a day where he went 32-39 for 4 touchdowns. Yeah, I think he's alright here.
Stanford: 1 interception. On rainy, windy, freezing day where Kelly had him throw the ball 43 TIMES!?!? Oh and yes he had some late game heroics. But we wouldn't had needed them had our special teams not completely sucked all game. We would have had a comfortable 3 point lead to kill the clock with.
North Carolina: 3 turnovers. Not good. On the other hand, the offense scored 50 points, and the defense gave up 36 points to a mediocre North Carolina offense.
Florida State: He won the game.
Navy: Offense scored 49 points. Defense allowed 39. We might as well call for Jaylon to get replaced.
Arizona State: Lots of turnovers. But how many were really Everett's fault? Two interceptions were because the DL tipped the ball. Is Golson suddenly responsible for making sure his OL does their jobs? Another interception hit one of his WR's in the chest and bounced into an Arizona State players arms. The fumbles were bad but he was sacked 7 times in this game with a coach who refused to help him out and run the ball with any kind of consistency in the first half. Further, the defense gave up 41 POINTS.
Northwestern: Offense scored 40 points. Golson had 2 turnovers. One was right before half and resulted in no points for Northwestern, the other I can't remember. So, even assuming his single fumble was directly responsible for a touchdown (which I don't think it was), the defense gave up 36 points to Northwestern. Special teams also shit their pants.
Louisville: Defense got completely ran over. Offense scored 28 points against a top 5 defense, put us in a position to take it to OT and special teams shit their pants again.
USC: Bad game by Golson, bad game by the defense, bad game by the coaches.

Do I think Golson is perfect? Hell no. Do I think Golson's turnovers hurt us? Hell yes. Do I think Golson's turnovers hurt us more than a hurt defense, a nonexistent running game and a stubborn head coach? Hell no. Do I think Golson is a scapegoat by unintelligent armchair QBs who can't come to terms with the fact that we weren't a very good football team this year? Absolutely.

Amen. There were a few of Golson's INTs that weren't his fault, but he still threw 29 TDs. A 2:1 TD:INT ratio is pretty good for a 2nd-year starter, especially considering how much Kelly had him throwing the ball. Clausen had 24 TDs, 17 INTs his sophomore year, and in his 3rd year in the system, he was phenomenal. There's no reason to think Golson can't make the same jump.

The fumbles, on the other hand, were atrocious. No excuse for those, and he needs to work on ball security all through the offseason. He also needs to practice the read-option and Kelly needs to let him keep it more since we know we have a capable backup in Zaire.

It's making me sick to see so many people on here completely disregard him despite his immense talent, especially after everybody was all over his junk after he stayed determined to come back to ND after his suspension and after his first 7 games. He's a damn good quarterback, and as long as he regains his confidence, works on ball security and the read-option, and Kelly runs the damn ball more instead of getting cute, he should be the starter and ND should finish in the top 15 next year (if the defense ends up being good, or even serviceable, anything below top 10 is a disappointment).

 

[BobbyMac]

I agree with the last two posters but I'd like to ask them this question:

Do you think Golson can lead the Irish to an undefeated record next year?

.

 

[greyhammer90]

I agree with the last two posters but I'd like to ask them this question:

Do you think Golson can lead the Irish to an undefeated record next year?

.

I think he's much more likely to than Zaire. But that's getting into "gut" talk, and I'll leave that to others.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think he's much more likely to than Zaire. But that's getting into "gut" talk, and I'll leave that to others.

That question has nothing to do with Zaire. My concern with Zaire is '16 and '17.

.

 

[wizards8507]

60% completion percentage with 33 points per game? I understand that the season didn't have the fairy tale ending that everyone wanted but this scapegoating of Golson is pretty ridiculous. I love Kelly, and he's ND's coach, but the way this season ended is on him. If Golson had been given a run/pass percentage like what was in the bowl game all year, the turnovers would have gone down and the defense would have spent more time off the field. Instead, Kelly put way too much on Golson's plate mentally and we started to see Golson break down by the end of the year. And even his breakdown wasn't as terrible as everyone seems to think. He had one truly bad game against USC, that's really it.

Rice: Killed it. (According to Wizards, the crowd was angry with Golson at this game. Just a reminder.)
Michigan: KILLED it
Purdue: Defense played like garbage, zero turnovers from Everett, 2 touchdown passes and one rushing touchdown.
Syracuse: 2 interceptions from Golson... on a day where he went 32-39 for 4 touchdowns. Yeah, I think he's alright here.
Stanford: 1 interception. On rainy, windy, freezing day where Kelly had him throw the ball 43 TIMES!?!? Oh and yes he had some late game heroics. But we wouldn't had needed them had our special teams not completely sucked all game. We would have had a comfortable 3 point lead to kill the clock with.
North Carolina: 3 turnovers. Not good. On the other hand, the offense scored 50 points, and the defense gave up 36 points to a mediocre North Carolina offense.
Florida State: He won the game.
Navy: Offense scored 49 points. Defense allowed 39. We might as well call for Jaylon to get replaced.
Arizona State: Lots of turnovers. But how many were really Everett's fault? Two interceptions were because the DL tipped the ball. Is Golson suddenly responsible for making sure his OL does their jobs? Another interception hit one of his WR's in the chest and bounced into an Arizona State players arms. The fumbles were bad but he was sacked 7 times in this game with a coach who refused to help him out and run the ball with any kind of consistency in the first half. Further, the defense gave up 41 POINTS.
Northwestern: Offense scored 40 points. Golson had 2 turnovers. One was right before half and resulted in no points for Northwestern, the other I can't remember. So, even assuming his single fumble was directly responsible for a touchdown (which I don't think it was), the defense gave up 36 points to Northwestern. Special teams also shit their pants.
Louisville: Defense got completely ran over. Offense scored 28 points against a top 5 defense, put us in a position to take it to OT and special teams shit their pants again.
USC: Bad game by Golson, bad game by the defense, bad game by the coaches.

Summary: Golson sucked this year but that's okay because other parts of our team ALSO sucked. In fact, those other areas of suckage actually make Golson's suckage quite awesome.

I think he's much more likely to than Zaire. But that's getting into "gut" talk, and I'll leave that to others.

If he gains 20 pounds, commits to learning the option, and BK commits to actually calling the option, absolutely. My biggest problem with Golson isn't Golson per se, it's the way BK runs his offense when Golson is the QB. I'd much rather have Malik run the "Malik playbook" than Golson running the "Golson playbook." The best option might just be Golson running the "Malik playbook," but BK seems unwilling to do that.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I agree with the last two posters but I'd like to ask them this question:

Do you think Golson can lead the Irish to an undefeated record next year?

.

I think that is a loaded question. Under the right conditions where the offense is more geared toward a power running game, I think yes.

I also think BK would probably not commit to that offense with EG as QB but would be much more likely to do so with MZ.

 

[ND NYC]

I think EG lost Kelly's confidence "in full" after the ASU debacle in the desert.
that game was Kelly's "last straw", and when I think he said to himself "i just cant go with EG anymore, and especially next year, so I need to get Malik going soon as I can"

with Kelly, it takes a while to lose him, but once you do...that's it.
(see Crist, Dayne--his "lost you" moment was that USC goaline fumble)

 

[bkess8]

It's making me sick to see so many people on here completely disregard him despite his immense talent, especially after everybody was all over his junk after he stayed determined to come back to ND after his suspension and after his first 7 games. He's a damn good quarterback, and as long as he regains his confidence, works on ball security and the read-option, and Kelly runs the damn ball more instead of getting cute, he should be the starter and ND should finish in the top 15 next year (if the defense ends up being good, or even serviceable, anything below top 10 is a disappointment).

I can only speak for myself, I don't have a complete disregard for EG but I think we need to move in another direction under center for the IRISH. EG is a productive QB both good and bad but he is also only valuable as a passer. MZ gives us the run and the pass, I know that MZ isn't the passer that EG is but EG can't touch the way that MZ runs the option. ND can finish in the top 15 IMO with MZ at QB next season.

Either way we can agree that Kelly needs to run the ball more to help whoever is the QB next season!

 

[woolybug25]

I think that is a loaded question. Under the right conditions where the offense is more geared toward a power running game, I think yes.

I also think BK would probably not commit to that offense with EG as QB but would be much more likely to do so with MZ.

Spot on. The reality is that the offense that would be necessary for Golson to be successful would be better suited for Malik. So why would we have Golson run it?

 

[greyhammer90]

That question has nothing to do with Zaire. My concern with Zaire is '16 and '17.

.

Yes he could, but the point of my post above was that the entire team needs to get better and the QB is probably ranked 90th on a list of 100 problems.

 

[EddytoNow]

I can understand all the love for Golson to a certain extent. He did show flashes of being a great quarterback, but he also exceeded the number of turnovers by Tommy Rees when everyone was calling for Tommy's benching. The bottom line is that Golson was inconsistent, and he put the defense in a hole multiple times by turning the ball over and giving the opposition a short field to work with. And I agree, the defense was not able to hold the opposition after a turnover like the 2012 team did.

If we had a great defense we could probably live with Golson's multiple turnover games. However, we don't have such a defense and aren't likely to have one soon. We need consistency from our quarterback more than anything else. Golson's inconsistency leads to mediocre seasons. If he is the starting quarterback next season, we will likely finish somewhere between 5-7 to 8-4. He will look great at times and frustrate the **** out of us at other times.

Zaire is the better option for time-consuming drives. The defense will be on the field less, more rested, and have a longer field to defend. In essence, a more balanced offense that eats clock becomes a necessity when our defense is so porous.

I also agree that this isn't all on Golson. Kelly's fascination with the long pass and quick strike put Golson in a bind on more than one occasion. Unfortunately, Golson was asked to do more than he was capable of doing. Zaire's or Golson's success next season depends upon a re-thinking of the offensive philosophy. It's okay to throw passes in the 5 to 10-yard range. Every play doesn't have to result in a touchdown or a long gain. And yes, it is okay to continue running the ball after the first quarter ends.

 

[wizards8507]

Spot on. The reality is that the offense that would be necessary for Golson to be successful would be better suited for Malik. So why would we have Golson run it?

Based on my reading of other posters, we're supposed to feel a warped sense of loyalty to Golson because he came back to Notre Dame after he got himself kicked out of school. Furthermore, that loyalty is supposed to inform and influence our football decisions (if we were the ones making the decisions). Color me crazy, but any brownie points he earned when he decided to come back still didn't make up for the ones he lost when he got kicked out in the first place.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think that is a loaded question. Under the right conditions where the offense is more geared toward a power running game, I think yes.

I also think BK would probably not commit to that offense with EG as QB but would be much more likely to do so with MZ.

It's not a loaded question.

Plus:

Why do people talk about Golson and a power running game and how he would have had just as much success if he would have had LSU's game plan all year? Golson isn't the right player for that. Being an athletic undersized QB doesn't make you a good running QB. The LSU game plan doesn't work with Golson. It takes a QB who can run the ball and know when to hand it off or pass. All this talk about Golson's passing and few acknowledge MZ put 14 of 15 passes on the hands of his receivers.

One other thing most have forgotten is how lucky Golson was that an ND player caught the pop up he threw under pressure. Had that been intercepted, even his loyalist supporters would have driven to South Bend to pack his bags. It's pure luck he has any supporters.

If you don't think he can go undefeated next year, it's time to move on to Zaire.

.