Spring Practice Thread 2012

[Whiskeyjack]

Hopefully it's not the same "informed and responsible" decision making that led him to pull his starting QB after the first half of the season after anointing him his starter for the season a mere week or so earlier. Here is to hoping Kelly get's it right this time and they aren't playing musical QB's all year long. Just another reason I would rather see Kiel in there from the beginning, essentially ending the yearly QB melodrama.

Hindsight is 20/20. Heading into the 2011 season, I don't know how any coach could have picked Rees over Crist.

my expectations are lower this year than last year, unfortunately..

I wouldn't say "unfortunately". Our fan base would benefit from few things more than realistic expectations.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I'm not rallying for Tommy, but I think the rumors of his demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Nice Mark Twain reference, Wooly.

 

[woolybug25]

Hindsight is 20/20. Heading into the 2011 season, I don't know how any coach could have picked Rees over Crist.

I feel like crying right now. This very well may be the first (and last) time that I completely disagree with you.

I felt like when Kelly pulled Crist, it was obvious that Notre Dame had gotten too big for him. Kelly did initially pick Crist, and Crist played himself out of his opportunity. The injuries, the failures, had all crushed that kid's spirit. That is why every time he stepped onto the field he looked like a deer in the headlights. Kelly's hand was forced to play a much less talented kid simply because he could trust him not to fumble the snap on the 2yd line when faced with the opportunity to tie the game against USC. Crist showed time after time that he would never be able to live up to his expectations at Notre Dame (I think the change of scenery will do him well, he really is a very talented kid). Rees wasn't the ideal option for QB, but Crist was mentally crushed by Notre Dame.

Please forgive me, my friend.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

I wouldn't say "unfortunately". Our fan base would benefit from few things more than realistic expectations.

yeah, exactly.. I'm not a "it's the end of the world" type guy, however, I have my reservations about Kelly having more wins this season than he has had in his first two.. and not to be pessimistic (just being realistic, as Whiskey said) I don't know if this "just win" philosophy we've adopted here on IE about recruiting will come to fruition.. the schedule is just hard and we can either have an experienced QB who sucks, or start an inexperienced guy with upside and I think we'll have right around the same amount of success.. which brings me to agreeing with what Domer4ever previously said about handing the reigns to Kiel, although I'm also not opposed to having Golson as QB due to his athleticism, big arm and supposed playmaking ability

I'll be the first person to admit I'm wrong, but I think this 2012 campaign is another building year and trying to figure out who will quarterback this team for the next 3 years

 

[woolybug25]

yeah, exactly.. I'm not a "it's the end of the world" type guy, however, I have my reservations about Kelly having more wins this season than he has had in his first two.. and not to be pessimistic (just being realistic, as Whiskey said) I don't know if this "just win" philosophy we've adopted here on IE about recruiting will come to fruition.. the schedule is just hard and we can either have an experienced QB who sucks, or start an inexperienced guy with upside and I think we'll have right around the same amount of success.. which brings me to agreeing with what Domer4ever previously said about handing the reigns to Kiel, although I'm also not opposed to having Golson as QB due to his athleticism, big arm and supposed playmaking ability

I'll be the first person to admit I'm wrong, but I think this 2012 campaign is another building year and trying to figure out who will quarterback this team for the next 3 years

In my drunken state, I hesitate to comment on this, but I will. I don't necessarily agree that if Rees wins the job, that it is an reflection on our level of QB play. This kid is 20 years old and there is no reason to believe that he cant improve as a player. We all hope that our QB play improves from what we have seen under Kelly. That being said, come fall, we may have 4 QB's that could play at a BCS level or 4 that cannot get us more than 8 wins and anywhere in between. That has yet to be seen.

By all accounts, none of our QB's have looked bad thus far in spring. Sure, none have separated themselves, but none have not had their moments (yes, whether you choose to blind yourself with past experiences or not, Rees has had his moments too). We have a lot of talent on this offense and there is no reason that we shouldn't expect a leader to emerge on this offense. We will have a QB that is more prepared to have a good season than the two years prior, that is a fact.

That is why I could see us picking any of them. Whatever guys gets the keys to the kingdom, he will be put in a much better situation in regards to understanding his role. I hope someone clearly separates themselves, but the fact remains, that we have one QB that has a ton of experience and one that has an unlimited ceiling. If Golson/Hendrix rise above and separate themselves, then we have an awesome situation. If not, then we have a decision to make on whether one of the QB's gives us the opportunity to win more games, if they are all equal, let's get Kiel's career started.

My completely transparent hope is that Golson can live up to what we thought he could become, but his time is now. If he cannot live up to that this season, then we have a guy with far more experience and another kid that is a blue chip recruit with an unlimited ceiling. Like it or not, that is our situation.

 

[JughedJones]

More and more I'm starting to think BK should throw Keil in or leave it to Rees.

I've seen it said here a few times lately and I am starting to come around to it: The QB situation would just be flat strange if we didn't either stick with experience or start a new era.

What if we started Hendrix or Golson this year and they had a pretty darn good season, like 9-10 wins... then next year it's their job with at least 2 years eligibility left. We'd have a QB controversy every damn year because Kiel is such a stud.

Let's just roll the dice with Gunner to begin with or let Tommy start one more year with Golson/Hendrix packages.

The Gunner era starts now in my opinion, whether he plays this season or not.

 

[Buster Bluth]

More and more I'm starting to think BK should throw Keil in or leave it to Rees.

I've seen it said here a few times lately and I am starting to come around to it: The QB situation would just be flat strange if we didn't either stick with experience or start a new era.

What if we started Hendrix or Golson this year and they had a pretty darn good season, like 9-10 wins... then next year it's their job with at least 2 years eligibility left. We'd have a QB controversy every damn year because Kiel is such a stud.

Let's just roll the dice with Gunner to begin with or let Tommy start one more year with Golson/Hendrix packages.

The Gunner era starts now in my opinion, whether he plays this season or not.

You're over-thinking it big time.

 

[JughedJones]

You're over-thinking it big time.

That's possible!

But I really think that having a guy like Gunner around won't allow Hendrix or Golson to ever feel comfortable with their jobs, they'll always be looking over their shoulders.

Of course, either one could turn out to be absolute STUDS and take a firm leadership position.. but as much as I like them both, I think we all know that we're just waiting on Gunner to take that role.

I just want one guy to be Notre Dame's quarterback... It's one of those things in college sports that needs to be locked down for the world to be right.

 

[woolybug25]

You're over-thinking it big time.

I disagree and think Jughedjones is right on point. We need a starter, not a one year dude. I feel like this is a year that a QB separates themselves or gets beat out. Simple as that. With a dumb-downed playbook and reduced responsibility, this year's QB will be picked on whose ability best gives the staff the feeling that they will win more games. Simple as that.

If all QB's are going to win the same amount of games, I really see no rational why we would start anyone other than Kiel. If someone separates and gives the staff the impression that they will lead to more wins, then that guy will be our QB. If they are all on the same level, then play the stud.

Like I said, I'm hoping that Golson separates himself. But it is quite clear that he has not done so thus far. We are going to win on defense and running the ball this year, so put the best QB we have onto the field. While the decision is quite complicated, it is also quite simple.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I disagree and think Jughedjones is right on point. We need a starter, not a one year dude.

We know so little about the QB situation going forward. To say that Golson is a "one year dude" isn't giving him a fair shake.

If Golson were 6'4 he'd be just as highly rated as Kiel. Yeah, I said it.

Let's all just take a breather and trust that the best man will win the job. Or Rees might, in which case we're f%*&ed.

 

[Grahambo]

If you have 4 QBs, you have none.

 

[BobD]

I think the only way Gunner see's the field this year is if Kelly thinks he's so good (a boy wonder type) that he'll be drafted and there is no chance he'll be around for his senior year.

 

[eNDzone]

I don't believe Kelly said that the playbook has to stay dumb -downed throughout the fall. If a few of the QBs catch on I can't see him holding them back for the sake of the others.





I wish I could get inside of the receiver's heads to see what they like about each QB.

 

[Patulski]

More and more I'm starting to think BK should throw Keil in or leave it to Rees.

I think that Kelly's "starting from ground zero" with the playbook is hedging between Rees and Kiel. Kelly knows that Rees knows the playbook and could step in on game one, without having fully utilized it in the spring, and perform right away. He also knows that if Kiel is to have a chance, he needs an entire spring of slowly learning the playbook. If by the opener Kiel knows the playbook, and can make more plays without making mistakes, he'll start.

The real losers in this are Hendrix and Golson, who should know the entire playbook by now and be refining their use of it during the spring. Instead, they're essentially on Kiel's level running the playbook without Rees's experience. I will be very surprised if the QB isn't Rees or Kiel for the opener.

 

[IrishLax]

No matter what you redshirt Kiel. That's what happened with Andrew Luck and then as a RS frosh he unseated an entrenched senior starter.

I think the clear choice is becoming to start Rees with Hendrix playing a very large amount of snaps as a "package." I think what TT has been calling for weeks is what we're going to see. As long as you give Hendrix 30% of the snaps and have him ready to take over if Tommy starts playing like total *** I'll be OK with it.

 

[irish1958]

There is one advantage that Golson has: no NFL team will draft him and he has four years of eligibility remaining.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Yeah, he emphasized how physical Atkinson is. Wood, Brown and McDaniel are "a cut below" Jackson and Atkinson athletically, and Atkinson is apparently locked in as the backup boundary corner behind Jackson. At field corner, Lo Wood is the farthest along but inconsistent. Cam has the farthest to go; he is still just getting used to running backward instead of forward. Cooks didn't say too much about Brown but I guess he is somewhere in the middle. This is all per 247 interview with Cooks.

Had to catch up because I was gone, but I didn't see where Cooks spoke spcifically either way about McDaniels athletic ability, just that he had a light year of catching up to do.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Might as well throw my kerosene on this bonfire: I think that Everett MAY have separated himself IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. And believe me, I take no pleasure in saying that, and really hope that it is not true. BUT, Coach wants accuracy and he wants quick release --- he wants these WAY before he wants footspeed and dangerous running ability [yes, I know that mobility at at least Tony Pike level is required].

When Kelly is asked to go down through the QBs with thumbnail comments on how they are doing, he rapidly says that Everett has to work on accuracy and getting the ball out quickly. He says this essentially about none of the others. He has his mild negatives, and some strong comments about not having turnovers, but not a lot of criticism of the other three on accuracy nor quick release. I hope that Everett works this out. My intuition is that given his other magnificent athletic qualities, we'd be hearing rumors of him separating the positive way if he WAS indeed solving this.

So what have we then? I'm trying to see Andrew as being really confident in running the passing game and not being just a poor man's version of Tim Tebow. And, therefore, now you see me, now you don't while throwing the ball [despite having the quickest release.] Please Andrew, begin to look like Andrew Luck more than Tebow.

And Tommy.... Tommy has a mean on, it seems to me. All the criticism, and the reminders from reporter after reporter, have to really grind him inside. A different temperament [Crist?] would be destroyed by this. That's not Rees. I believe that our choirboy Tommy is mad as he!l and he's not going quietly. I still marvel at the shot we had on that practice video of him not quitting on the one-on-one with Hendrix and mauling him till the whistle. Can an angry and more mature Tommy Rees get there? Maybe.

And what about Gunner? Frankly my ridiculously small sample of data makes me feel that Gunner's already the best we have. LAX is right: the ideal thing, the sensible thing, is that we redshirt Gunner. I'm just not sure that we can. And one thing I DO know for sure: Kelly doesn't care what we think, and doesn't care what class a student happens to be in. If Everett can't throw it accurately and on time; if Andrew can't show the requisite consistency; if Tommy's fire can't overcome the mobility deficiencies, well, there is one guy on campus who throws accurately, moves well, has quick release, is an early enrollee with a simplified playbook, and who seems to have descended from Heaven to play quarterback.

This is high drama. Hopefully Coach being "up close and personal" with these guys [we are not] will see the light clearly. It's pretty foggy from my seat in the bleachers.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

To me the most interesting part of practice vidiography was when they had the team together and Stephon Tuitt jumped early, and Kelly made them do it over. Both the power of the mic, and the savy with which the Kelly regime is exhibiting is shown with Kelly's comment. He said, "That is called premature jumping." Everybody knew what he meant. Any coach worth a salt, quick enough to capitalize on it would have said premature ejaculation, when he caught a star player in that situation. But Kelly must have known the mic was present. Hats off to Kelly sharp enough to get to it with timing, smart enough not to say it, completely!

I can't speak to this playbook thing. I think it is a bit like the Ark of the Covenant. No one has really seen it. It could look like this or that. Who has actually seen Notre Dame's play book?

Just like the Aaron Lynch Saga; Kelly simply said, "take care of personal issues at home." Could be nothing more that taking a time-out in Cleveland. No one ever said anything about Florida; no one ever said anything about a medical issue; no one said anything. Let me rephrase that, no one who know anything said anything else, or any of those other things.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

More and more I'm starting to think BK should throw Keil in or leave it to Rees.

I've seen it said here a few times lately and I am starting to come around to it: The QB situation would just be flat strange if we didn't either stick with experience or start a new era.

What if we started Hendrix or Golson this year and they had a pretty darn good season, like 9-10 wins... then next year it's their job with at least 2 years eligibility left. We'd have a QB controversy every damn year because Kiel is such a stud.

Let's just roll the dice with Gunner to begin with or let Tommy start one more year with Golson/Hendrix packages.

The Gunner era starts now in my opinion, whether he plays this season or not.

Very interesting take on the situation. "The Gunner Era starts now". I totally agree. Gunner is the future QB of ND. #1 QB's don't come into situations and sit (unless its USC under PC where they had a laundry list of top 3 QB's coming in every year). The situation is only going to get more clouded when that other kid comes in next season (forget his name).

At this point, coach is probably working on "plan b" which is what you said, Tommy starting with packages for either Hendrix or Golson. The only way I see this working is if the packages are actually used 30% of the snaps. My only worry is developing continuity with the rest of the offense. I don't like the idea of going into USC and Oklahoma along with playing Michigan at home without a leader taking command of the offense.

I think what Kelly is still praying for (he probably spends 3 hours before and after practice at the grotto) is someone to emerge as the number one. And. I don't think that is necessarily smart, at this point, to write off that possibility. I can imagine that it is extremely difficult for BK to be unsure at this point what he is going to do, the ND nation is going to be putting a ton of pressure on him this season. I just hope he's keeping an open mind while still preparing for two different scenarios.

These goddamn ghosts of Notre Dame are a pain in the ***. The comparisons to Holtz, Rockne, Parseghian, and Leahy combined with the frustrations of Willingham, Weis, Davie..etc have to be wreaking havoc on Kelly. He seens to be blocking most of this bs out, but it still has to be eating at him. Hopefully he stays objective.

Sorry for the rant. I am hopped up on valium and percocets because I really screwed up my back lol I cant move the right side of my back and neck. I run, lift, and do muay thai all week but I hurt myself turning around to quickly when someone at work called my name. I hate getting old

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

I don't know why you guys are making the QB situation so complicated. For whatever reason, Kelly feels comfortable with and trusts Rees. Kelly wants Rees to succeed. All this talk of QB competition and drawing back the playbook so all the QBs are on equal footing is to a degree BS.

I will go out on a limb and state that Rees will start against Navy. To those who would disagree with that decision, Kelly can point out that there was a fierce QB competition and no one else stepped up. Last year, many here claimed that Rees was our only option. This year, what other options do we have other than Rees. Are we not in the same situation as last year? What would Kelly's rationale be for starting someone other than Rees? Better chance to win? A rebuilding year? Ain't happening.

Rees will start. If we are in a blowout, Kelly may change his approach and play the young QBS. Maybe not. Anyway when Rees begins to struggle against competent opponents, Hendrix/Golston will likely get their shot. They will struggle because of inexperience and of the stiff competition. Which will open the gates for the illogical "I told you so that Hendrix/Golston are not good and Rees is/was our best option" crowd to come to Kelly's defense for the QB F'up. Then we get the pitiful merry-go-round QB situation.

I hope I am wrong. I predicted we go 9-3 but that prediction looks kool-aid induced. For all the talk about the QB situation, I don't think it will be the make or break position that it was last year. Our secondary is 4A high school level...I hope they learn fast or it is going to be dreadful year.

This year is Kelly's year. He has no excuses.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

In my drunken state, I hesitate to comment on this, but I will. I don't necessarily agree that if Rees wins the job, that it is an reflection on our level of QB play. This kid is 20 years old and there is no reason to believe that he cant improve as a player. We all hope that our QB play improves from what we have seen under Kelly. That being said, come fall, we may have 4 QB's that could play at a BCS level or 4 that cannot get us more than 8 wins and anywhere in between. That has yet to be seen.

By all accounts, none of our QB's have looked bad thus far in spring. Sure, none have separated themselves, but none have not had their moments (yes, whether you choose to blind yourself with past experiences or not, Rees has had his moments too). We have a lot of talent on this offense and there is no reason that we shouldn't expect a leader to emerge on this offense. We will have a QB that is more prepared to have a good season than the two years prior, that is a fact.

That is why I could see us picking any of them. Whatever guys gets the keys to the kingdom, he will be put in a much better situation in regards to understanding his role. I hope someone clearly separates themselves, but the fact remains, that we have one QB that has a ton of experience and one that has an unlimited ceiling. If Golson/Hendrix rise above and separate themselves, then we have an awesome situation. If not, then we have a decision to make on whether one of the QB's gives us the opportunity to win more games, if they are all equal, let's get Kiel's career started.

My completely transparent hope is that Golson can live up to what we thought he could become, but his time is now. If he cannot live up to that this season, then we have a guy with far more experience and another kid that is a blue chip recruit with an unlimited ceiling. Like it or not, that is our situation.

Maybe we can take the coaches at their word, and all we have seen this spring is basic position reeducation. Maybe instead of era's and abilities, what we are seeing is the fundamental retraining, including breaking habits, and changing tendencies, so the new normal is 0 turnovers, 0 yards being better than a turnover. That would go a long way to explain why no qb has established himself, it would be impossibility, and they are all being built from the ground up.

If I were a brilliant coach, I would take the time to do this this spring as the following would be advantages: No qb controversy to ruin team focus or attitude; time for Gunner to grow and catch up; eliminate bad habits so you can turn the athlete loose; no "years of mediocrity" as there probably would be with no attention given to the qb woes; make it easier to bring in next year’s prospect; put a racecar driver at the wheel of a race car. I think that Martin and Kelly will show a much more prolific offense this year.

Disadvantages: Risk worrying IE posters, and give some upset stomachs and hangovers.

 

[BeauBenken]

Did I miss some big key news on Everett or something?

 

[Meacon Irish]

Did I miss some big key news on Everett or something?

I don't think so. It's just been three long days since a practice and people are using that time to overanalyze things.

 

[stlnd01]

Might as well throw my kerosene on this bonfire: I think that Everett MAY have separated himself IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. And believe me, I take no pleasure in saying that, and really hope that it is not true. BUT, Coach wants accuracy and he wants quick release --- he wants these WAY before he wants footspeed and dangerous running ability [yes, I know that mobility at at least Tony Pike level is required].

Really? Admittedly I've not seen much of Golson, but in practice video he looks to have a much quicker, smoother release than Hendrix (with whom the Tebow comparisons are frighteningly apt). And while Golson's accuracy's tough to judge from a small sample size, accuracy was a problem for Hendrix last season. And we know Golson has at least as big an arm as Hendrix and bigger than Rees. "Grasp of the offense" may still be an issue, but I'm not seen that Hendrix has an iron grip on it either, and it's doubtful Kiel does yet.
I too love Rees' mental toughness but I think our offense requires the ability to throw more than 15 yards downfield, especially without Floyd to lean on. I'm sympathetic to the "if no one emerges, start Kiel" approach, but I wonder about the wisdom of throwing him in on Day One. Maybe a gradual transition from Rees to Kiel, if nothing better emerges. But I'm not sure why everyone's so down on Golson all of a sudden.

One semi-related point:
Does anyone else think that, perhaps when Kelly speaks at a press conference of a player not performing to expectations, his real purpose is to light a fire under that player's butt? Why else is he calling out Louis Nix? Ishaq Williams? Golson?
While it's risky and may not always be best tactic, it's worked for him before. Michael Floyd, for instance, when Kelly first arrived, was the subject of significant press conference criticism. And the post-USC game comments last year.

 

[Domer4ever]

The problem with Rees is the same problem people have with Tim Tebow. While he tries hard and is a great kid...that is not going to change the fact that he just does not have the physical ability that is ideally required to be thought of as an upper echelon QB. As far as Rees is concerned; average to below average arm strength, zero mobility, and while he is smart I just don't know what the heck he is thinking about when throwing some of these ridiculous INT's. Is this something he can get better at or is that just who he is as a QB?

I would also say I am skeptical of Kelly and his ability to make "the right choice" when it comes to the QB position. Last year he looked really bad when it came to making those decisions. He pulled Crist after a mere half of bad football after anointing him his starting QB for the season. Rees really was a turnover machine all season long and then when Hendrix does finally get a chance and shows some ability, Kelly sticks with Rees in the bowl game and he continues to turn the football over in a losing effort against Florida State. Right now Kelly has a lot to prove himself and if he continues to play musical QB's all season long, it's going to be bad news for an offense that has a lot of question marks as is.

If it's close, he has to start Kiel.

 

[rocket66]

I'll honestly cry and have a hard time being excited about this season if Rees is named starter. There is just way too much talent there with the other qb's to have to suffer through another season of Tommy. Watching him get tackled on the goal line against Stanford on what should have been a sure walk-in touchdown sealed the deal for me. He just isn't good enough against the better teams.

Agree with everyone above: if it's close, start Kiel.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

The problem with Rees is the same problem people have with Tim Tebow. While he tries hard and is a great kid...that is not going to change the fact that he just does not have the physical ability that is ideally required to be thought of as an upper echelon QB. As far as Rees is concerned; average to below average arm strength, zero mobility, and while he is smart I just don't know what the heck he is thinking about when throwing some of these ridiculous INT's. Is this something he can get better at or is that just who he is as a QB?

I would also say I am skeptical of Kelly and his ability to make "the right choice" when it comes to the QB position. Last year he looked really bad when it came to making those decisions. He pulled Crist after a mere half of bad football after anointing him his starting QB for the season. Rees really was a turnover machine all season long and then when Hendrix does finally get a chance and shows some ability, Kelly sticks with Rees in the bowl game and he continues to turn the football over in a losing effort against Florida State. Right now Kelly has a lot to prove himself and if he continues to play musical QB's all season long, it's going to be bad news for an offense that has a lot of question marks as is.

If it's close, he has to start Kiel.

I don't know that starting Kiel based of the other QB's incompetence rather than his competence is the best idea. Kiel is extremely talented in every facit a QB should be. But, he is still very young, and impressionable. Starting Kiel before he is ready could damage him for the future. The last thing you want is your potentially "franchise" QB psycholologically damaging himself and turning into a deer in headlights second quessing himself. We saw wtih Dayne that talent doesn't always equal success, and once a player loses his confidence and develops bad habits their game can be ruined, and cause more problems.

I strongly that believe rookie QB's, on every level from high school to NFL, should sit for atleast a year and ideally 2-3. The speed and the complexity of the game while transitioning from HS-College and College-NFL is very difficult to adjust to. I think, in this case, we should look at what is best for Kiel's development more than what is best for the 2012 Notre Dame team. If Kiel is ready, then I am all for it. But I am against Kiel starting because Rees/Hendrix/Golson are not ready.

 

[MrIrishCanadian1]

Michigan vs ND practices

Michigan vs ND practices

So I was watching Michigan spring practices (University of Michigan Official Athletic Site) and it seemed that their practices were run completely differently than ours. Almost all the highlights from their practices were of 11 on 11s; but for ND, not many were of 11 on 11s.

So why does Michigan focus on practicing that way more than us? What are the pros and cons? (or is it just an illusion of video editing--no major difference in practice routines)

 

[Buster Bluth]

So I was watching Michigan spring practices (University of Michigan Official Athletic Site) and it seemed that their practices were run completely differently than ours. Almost all the highlights from their practices were of 11 on 11s; but for ND, not many were of 11 on 11s.

So why does Michigan focus on practicing that way more than us? What are the pros and cons? (or is it just an illusion of video editing--no major difference in practice routines)

There are myriad possible reasons. Coaching preference, progress in spring implementation, time of practice when the video was shot, etc...