Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[IRISHDODGER]

Looks like BK really knew how to coach em up. Doing more with less. 😂

Except at QB which is essential to win a NC these days.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

The stat isn’t surprising. Anyone that pays attention can see the overall quality of player and athleticism difference in Kelly’s Notre Dame teams vs. Freeman’s Notre Dame teams. Kelly would have strong offensive line units and guys here and there, but Freeman’s teams (especially in the defensive side) look to be faster and notably better players.

Kirby Smart agreed with this statement after the Sugar Bowl

 

[IRISHDODGER]

He was really good at winning the games he was supposed to. I’ll give him that.

well…after seven years on the job he was.

 

[Huntr]

Prister put out a great article yesterday about the behind the scenes stuff leading to Freeman's hiring. Kelly approached ND after the GA Tech game and laid down a list of demands. Despite knowing Kelly was likely looking around, Swarbrick was like eh, let's not.

I know a lot of us suspected that ND was ready to move on from him, this just adds more fuel to that fire. Which was not the intent of the article at all, its really about how Freeman "was the right man for the job."

That game will always stick out to me because we were driving up for the holidays and that was the 1st time I listened to an ND game on XM. Slightly humorous to me that their games are on the Catholic channel.

That significant ass beating made the drive that much more enjoyable. And now, we have another thing about that game.

 

[zelezo vlk]

As a person who doesnt really like golf at all, I feel like those who like golf have given up on life and just want to be left alone to wallow in their own self pity and are in search for some semblance of cathartic release that they purposefully punish themselves while spending abhorent amounts of money they worked really hard to obtain.

This is how I feel about mods on internet forums

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

That game will always stick out to me because we were driving up for the holidays and that was the 1st time I listened to an ND game on XM. Slightly humorous to me that their games are on the Catholic channel.

Always got a kick out of that as well. Sirius always sends me a $4.99/mo offer for 12 months after I cancel, requires an auto-renewal subscription but comes with free cancelation. I keep it strictly for football season in case I'm forced to travel somewhere against my will lol

 

[irishnd31]

Agree. Thats why I spent all my money on pot.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Not for nothing, his results on the field actually improved and led to the best five-year stretch of Notre Dame football in almost three decades.

But, no, he was never going to win a title building a roster that way. Freeman seems able to recruit at a higher level while also bringing in kids who can make it at Notre Dame.

In Kelly's defense, he was pretty unfortunate to run up against 2012 Alabama, 2018 Clemson and 2020 Alabama. If you really think about, those were just some ridiculously talented and elite teams.

Also, when Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU, the entire trajectory of CFB changed (NIL, transfer portal, etc).

 

[forkbeard3777]

“The best five year stretch of ND football in three decades.”

This encapsulates all that is wrong with the BK era. BK got credit because three loser head coaches in Davie, Willingham, and Weis should not have been hired and were in over their heads. And it took 8 years for BK to figure out that hiring defensive coordinators from the Cincy/GVSU coaching tree was a bad idea.

BK is a solid coach but is highly overrated. His success at Cincy was surpassed by Fickell. His succes at ND has already been surpassed by Marcus. And he’s treading water at LSU with three straight 3+ loss seasons. If he doesn’t make the playoffs this year, he may even be shown the door.

Oddly enough, he was most successful his first year. If he had just a serviceable-at-best defense in year two, LSU wins another NC. I've followed him (via my Notre Dame football interest) enough to know he has not demonstrated where he can put it all (offense, defense, ST) together. There's always a significant hole on the team or part of a unit that is detrimental.

Many LSU fans, myself included, are getting very disgruntled with Kelly. I agree, schedule aside, he has to get to the CFB Playoffs this year. He's assembled a great roster...sure, there's some holes here and there...but for all intents and purposes, this should be a really good LSU team.

He's got to produce, and I'm bearish on that/him.

 

[sixstar]

Yes, those were talented teams, but ND failed to show up in the 2012 and 2018 games.

2012 Bama: ND lost by 28 points. OIe Miss (19 pts), TAMU (won), LSU (4 pts), Georgia (4 pts x2) all showed better.
2018 Clemson: ND lost by 27 points. TAMU (1), Syracuse (4), BC (20), SCar (21) all showed better.

2020 Bama was a monster. Ole Miss and UF were the only teams that played them close. UGa was competitive.

 

[dankgesang]

Oddly enough, he was most successful his first year. If he had just a serviceable-at-best defense in year two, LSU wins another NC. I've followed him (via my Notre Dame football interest) enough to know he has not demonstrated where he can put it all (offense, defense, ST) together. There's always a significant hole on the team or part of a unit that is detrimental.

Many LSU fans, myself included, are getting very disgruntled with Kelly. I agree, schedule aside, he has to get to the CFB Playoffs this year. He's assembled a great roster...sure, there's some holes here and there...but for all intents and purposes, this should be a really good LSU team.

He's got to produce, and I'm bearish on that/him.

I think you would have been shocked and dismayed at how average even that year two offense would have looked in an all-the-marbles situation against elite competition that had ample time to prep for him. Brian is a chump. Barring insane upset luck that gives him semifinal and final matchups against SMU/Boise tier teams he will never, ever win a championship anywhere. I would be real surprised to see him get to a final.

 

[TorontoGold]

In Kelly's defense, he was pretty unfortunate to run up against 2012 Alabama, 2018 Clemson and 2020 Alabama. If you really think about, those were just some ridiculously talented and elite teams.

Also, when Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU, the entire trajectory of CFB changed (NIL, transfer portal, etc).

The trajectory change should have benefited someone like Kelly who is not an elite recruiter. I think him shitting his pants at LSU is a mild surprise to ND fans. The guy lauded as the "CEO Coach" can't build out the infrastructure to adapt, yikes.

 

[Free Manera]

Does LSU have the NIL resources that ND, OSU, Texas, Michigan, and Alabama have? I don't know that they do which would make traditional relationship-level recruiting even more important there. ND right now is benefitting from both elite staff recruiting and elite NIL.

 

[TheProspector]

Oddly enough, he was most successful his first year. If he had just a serviceable-at-best defense in year two, LSU wins another NC. I've followed him (via my Notre Dame football interest) enough to know he has not demonstrated where he can put it all (offense, defense, ST) together. There's always a significant hole on the team or part of a unit that is detrimental.

Many LSU fans, myself included, are getting very disgruntled with Kelly. I agree, schedule aside, he has to get to the CFB Playoffs this year. He's assembled a great roster...sure, there's some holes here and there...but for all intents and purposes, this should be a really good LSU team.

He's got to produce, and I'm bearish on that/him.

The BK substandard ST play alone is glaring. His ST at ND were horrid. It’s night and day with Marcus who is a Tressel disciple. With Mason and Biagi, our ST have won us multiple games under Freeman.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that has to be odd to see as a LSU fan since I believe Miles always had fantastic ST. Not to mention that Saban always had excellent ST too.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Kirby Smart agreed with this statement after the Sugar Bowl

I recall reading that Kirby and his staff didnt know much about ND until they started looking at film and immediately several players jumped out at them, notably #30. They didnt know who he was but they could tell he was special from the film. I assume they all know who Bryant Young was but can understand they didnt know his son was about give their punter an absolute nightmare of a game.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yes, those were talented teams, but ND failed to show up in the 2012 and 2018 games.

2012 Bama: ND lost by 28 points. OIe Miss (19 pts), TAMU (won), LSU (4 pts), Georgia (4 pts x2) all showed better.
2018 Clemson: ND lost by 27 points. TAMU (1), Syracuse (4), BC (20), SCar (21) all showed better.

2020 Bama was a monster. Ole Miss and UF were the only teams that played them close. UGa was competitive.

I feel like the 2018 Clemson game was closer than the score let on. We had a disastrous 2nd quarter when we lost Love I think and someone else in the secondary. The replacements weren't ready or up to snuff and Lawrence picked us apart until our guys were able to come back in. I know you're only as good as your weakest link, but we hung with them decent outside of that 2nd quarter.

That 2020 Bama team, on the other hand, was probably the other way around. According to the scoreboard we played them closer than OSU or other teams, but pretty sure Saban felt bad for us and took his foot off the gas 2nd half. He had to keep DeVonta Smith fresh.

 

[ulukinatme]

Agree. Thats why I spent all my money on pot.

This explains the more mellow Cack the last few years

 

[NorthDakota]

That game will always stick out to me because we were driving up for the holidays and that was the 1st time I listened to an ND game on XM. Slightly humorous to me that their games are on the Catholic channel.

That significant ass beating made the drive that much more enjoyable. And now, we have another thing about that game.

ND on XM rules. And yes, it rules that it is on the Catholic channel

 

[Irish#1]

Yes, those were talented teams, but ND failed to show up in the 2012 and 2018 games.

2012 Bama: ND lost by 28 points. OIe Miss (19 pts), TAMU (won), LSU (4 pts), Georgia (4 pts x2) all showed better.
2018 Clemson: ND lost by 27 points. TAMU (1), Syracuse (4), BC (20), SCar (21) all showed better.

2020 Bama was a monster. Ole Miss and UF were the only teams that played them close. UGa was competitive.

IMO you can't really compare regular season games to playoff games. At some point those teams put it cruise control, but had the talent to still win. Yet, when it came to the playoffs the end was in sight and the focus was much more intense than a regular season game.

 

[Irish#1]

I recall reading that Kirby and his staff didnt know much about ND until they started looking at film and immediately several players jumped out at them, notably #30. They didnt know who he was but they could tell he was special from the film. I assume they all know who Bryant Young was but can understand they didnt know his son was about give their punter an absolute nightmare of a game.

Adding to this, seeing them in person is another dose of reality.

 

[NorthDakota]

IMO you can't really compare regular season games to playoff games. At some point those teams put it cruise control, but had the talent to still win. Yet, when it came to the playoffs the end was in sight and the focus was much more intense than a regular season game.

Yep. Especially Clemson teams. Playing those schedules was very conducive to using the regular season as an extended preseason lol

 

[greyhammer90]

ND on XM rules. And yes, it rules that it is on the Catholic channel

I wish I could easily watch the TV broadcast with xm audio, but it seems like it would be a hassle.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Prister put out a great article yesterday about the behind the scenes stuff leading to Freeman's hiring. Kelly approached ND after the GA Tech game and laid down a list of demands. Despite knowing Kelly was likely looking around, Swarbrick was like eh, let's not.

I know a lot of us suspected that ND was ready to move on from him, this just adds more fuel to that fire. Which was not the intent of the article at all, its really about how Freeman "was the right man for the job."

Did Prister provide any clarification on what Kelly's "demands" were? (i.e., were they strictly contractual? Academic exceptions? New facilities?)

 

[IRISHDODGER]

In Kelly's defense, he was pretty unfortunate to run up against 2012 Alabama, 2018 Clemson and 2020 Alabama. If you really think about, those were just some ridiculously talented and elite teams.

Also, when Kelly left Notre Dame for LSU, the entire trajectory of CFB changed (NIL, transfer portal, etc).

He just had the best portal haul this offseason so no excuses there. It also showed that despite the entire trajectory of CFB changing, he didn’t believe it would benefit him at ND. It’s definitely benefitted MF…the run to the NC game helped too

 

[Free Manera]

Did Prister provide any clarification on what Kelly's "demands" were? (i.e., were they strictly contractual? Academic exceptions? New facilities?)

No but I think it's hilarious that presumably Freeman is getting all the stuff Kelly wanted.

 

[forkbeard3777]

He just had the best portal haul this offseason so no excuses there. It also showed that despite the entire trajectory of CFB changing, he didn’t believe it would benefit him at ND. It’s definitely benefitted MF…the run to the NC game helped too

I know, that's why I said, "Many LSU fans, myself included, are getting very disgruntled with Kelly. I agree, schedule aside, he has to get to the CFB Playoffs this year. He's assembled a great roster...sure, there's some holes here and there...but for all intents and purposes, this should be a really good LSU team. He's got to produce, and I'm bearish on that/him." My post more meant that the landscape of CFB drastically changed right around the time he left ND for LSU. Maybe it took some time to get acclimated to it? Hell, Saban arguably quit over it. I wonder how BK would have done had he stayed at ND with the addition of the portal (was BK brining on graduate transfers?), NIL, player collectives, and so forth? ND certainly has much deeper pockets than we do...

 

[forkbeard3777]

He just had the best portal haul this offseason so no excuses there. It also showed that despite the entire trajectory of CFB changing, he didn’t believe it would benefit him at ND. It’s definitely benefitted MF…the run to the NC game helped too

I've read and heard (from no real "authoritative" source I might add....) that ND has loosened its academic restrictions under Freeman. I've heard some of the guys Freeman and the staff are recruiting and/or bringing aren't ones that would be deemed "scholars." Any truth in that? Regardless, even if true, I'm sure the requirements and standards and more demanding than 9/10 other schools (i.e., no online courses, no "made up" courses à la UNC).

 

[SeekNDestroy]

I've read and heard (from no real "authoritative" source I might add....) that ND has loosened its academic restrictions under Freeman. I've heard some of the guys Freeman and the staff are recruiting and/or bringing aren't ones that would be deemed "scholars." Any truth in that? Regardless, even if true, I'm sure the requirements and standards and more demanding than 9/10 other schools (i.e., no online courses, no "made up" courses à la UNC).

I don’t know any specifics, but admissions always asks themselves when evaluating players, “Can he graduate from Notre Dame?” I don’t think that has or ever will change.

 

[irishjim]

I've read and heard (from no real "authoritative" source I might add....) that ND has loosened its academic restrictions under Freeman. I've heard some of the guys Freeman and the staff are recruiting and/or bringing aren't ones that would be deemed "scholars." Any truth in that? Regardless, even if true, I'm sure the requirements and standards and more demanding than 9/10 other schools (i.e., no online courses, no "made up" courses à la UNC).

I would say the standards have largely remained the same. Notre Dame believes in opportunity to a point.

I’ll add that we’ve had fewer academic sit outs and transfers so I think the staff and university has better identified players who will succeed

 

[stlnd01]

I've read and heard (from no real "authoritative" source I might add....) that ND has loosened its academic restrictions under Freeman. I've heard some of the guys Freeman and the staff are recruiting and/or bringing aren't ones that would be deemed "scholars." Any truth in that? Regardless, even if true, I'm sure the requirements and standards and more demanding than 9/10 other schools (i.e., no online courses, no "made up" courses à la UNC).

There have always been borderline cases, always, going back to the Prop 48 days of Chris Zorich and Tony Rice. Hell, going back to the Gipper. (And certainly going back to, say, Tee Shepherd and Aaron Lynch in the early BK years).

I think what SeekNDestroy said is basically correct, that they assess whether a recruit can graduate from Notre Dame, and decide from there. It’s probably as much an assessment of a recruit’s character and life goals as it is their academics, beyond a certain base line anyway. Given the academic support Notre Dame offers, if a kid wants to get his degree they can help most of them make it happen (and I don’t mean by cheating!) But they have to want to.

If anything, making that assessment may have gotten easier in the NIL era since the kids who don’t want to “play school” to begin with really don’t have to any more. We can go get the ones who do.