'24 IL DL Justin Scott (Miami [FL] Verbal)

[T-Boone]

Freeman knows this but our line recruiting both sides isn’t close to good enough

We’ve greatly improved the skill of the team

I agree with this.

 

[MacIrish75]

Any legit judgement on MFMF requires at least three years. All of you Pollyannas and Chicken Littles need to take a breath. In some metrics MFMF is already better than his predecessor and in a couple ways he hasn’t gotten there, yet. It’ll be better for your spouses/mothers/the board if all of you just shut the fuck up and post fun memes & GIFs and enjoy your summer.

 

[Blazers46]

I think you and everyone else knew we were a little overrated. We had blah at WR and our QB situation smelled worse than a waste management trash truck.

But ND was better than Oregon State.

 

[irishandy]

Any legit judgement on MFMF requires at least three years. All of you Pollyannas and Chicken Littles need to take a breath. In some metrics MFMF is already better than his predecessor and in a couple ways he hasn’t gotten there, yet. It’ll be better for your spouses/mothers/the board if all of you just shut the fuck up and post fun memes & GIFs and enjoy your summer.

Well said MacIrish!!

 

[Blazers46]

Any legit judgement on MFMF requires at least three years. All of you Pollyannas and Chicken Littles need to take a breath. In some metrics MFMF is already better than his predecessor and in a couple ways he hasn’t gotten there, yet. It’ll be better for your spouses/mothers/the board if all of you just shut the fuck up and post fun memes & GIFs and enjoy your summer.

I agree. If this was our situation with freeman following the Weis years ND fans would be excited for what’s to come. But Freeman followed BK, and while very flawed BK did a lot for the ND and BK is a hard act to follow. Although it took BK awhile to get going and seem to wet the bed once a year.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Oh please. When will you stop blaming Kelly? The Marshall and Stanford losses had nothing to do with Kelly. ND had much better talent than those teams. Kelly beat these kinds of teams systematically in his last 5 years. You even said yourself that Freeman had to adjust his approach. He was green and it showed, not only last year but in the NY6 bowl. And while I'm at it, give it a few years and you just might long for the Kelly days of 11-1, 10-2 and occasional playoff berths.

So, the coach who recruited the whole ass roster for 2022 holds NO blame whatsoever? That is insanely ignorant.

Yeah, Kelly beat these kind of teams, but if you watch 2021, he was pushing it several times. The only reason ND didn't lose to Florida State, Toledo and Virginia Tech was because Kyle Hamilton and Jack Coan bailed him out. Kelly failed to recruit sufficient safety talent to replace Hamilton and ND had no answer at QB and there was no Jack Coan in the portal. Like, how you can ignore all of that is bizarrely dense.

 

[NDdomer2]

Kelly had an awesome home win vs Clemson last year

 

[NDQuebec]

So, the coach who recruited the whole ass roster for 2022 holds NO blame whatsoever? That is insanely ignorant.

Yeah, Kelly beat these kind of teams, but if you watch 2021, he was pushing it several times. The only reason ND didn't lose to Florida State, Toledo and Virginia Tech was because Kyle Hamilton and Jack Coan bailed him out. Kelly failed to recruit sufficient safety talent to replace Hamilton and ND had no answer at QB and there was no Jack Coan in the portal. Like, how you can ignore all of that is bizarrely dense.

Ok, the losses were no fault of ND's head coach. Sure. Blame it all on the previous coach. He left Freeman with a dumpster fire and a team that "almost lost" to inferior opponents. Sure. Excuses, excuses. How many more years will Kelly bear the brunt of the blame?

Kyle Hamilton and Jack Coan bailed Kelly out and kept him from losing three games. Phew. Who recruited (got a transfer) those two? Oh and there was no Jack Coan in the portal? If I remember well, Freeman decided against getting a portal QB before even looking.

Kelly failed to recruit safety talent sufficiently to replace Hamilton? Absolutely right. Freeman doesn't seem to be doing much better recruiting safety either.

It seems to me that blaming the former head coach for the losses vs Marshall and Stanford is, as you say, insanely ignorant or bizarrely dense.

I am not a Kelly fan, far from it. I was enthralled when Freeman was hired. I hope he succeeds. But blaming those two losses on Kelly, and not Freeman, is something that I just can't buy.

 

[MacIrish75]

Ok, the losses were no fault of ND's head coach. Sure. Blame it all on the previous coach. He left Freeman with a dumpster fire and a team that "almost lost" to inferior opponents. Sure. Excuses, excuses. How many more years will Kelly bear the brunt of the blame?

Kyle Hamilton and Jack Coan bailed Kelly out and kept him from losing three games. Phew. Who recruited (got a transfer) those two? Oh and there was no Jack Coan in the portal? If I remember well, Freeman decided against getting a portal QB before even looking.

Kelly failed to recruit safety talent sufficiently to replace Hamilton? Absolutely right. Freeman doesn't seem to be doing much better recruiting safety either.

It seems to me that blaming the former head coach for the losses vs Marshall and Stanford is, as you say, insanely ignorant or bizarrely dense.

I am not a Kelly fan, far from it. I was enthralled when Freeman was hired. I hope he succeeds. But blaming those two losses on Kelly, and not Freeman, is something that I just can't buy.

Hate to interrupt this game of rock ‘em sock ‘em robots…but why can’t we just agree that BK had games like Marshall and Stanford every year, but his 30+ years of HC experience allowed him to win these games by a field goal instead of losing by the same margin?

And BK does share some culpability in the makeup of the roster in the first year after his departure.

 

[PutuporShutup]

So, the coach who recruited the whole ass roster for 2022 holds NO blame whatsoever? That is insanely ignorant.

Yeah, Kelly beat these kind of teams, but if you watch 2021, he was pushing it several times. The only reason ND didn't lose to Florida State, Toledo and Virginia Tech was because Kyle Hamilton and Jack Coan bailed him out. Kelly failed to recruit sufficient safety talent to replace Hamilton and ND had no answer at QB and there was no Jack Coan in the portal. Like, how you can ignore all of that is bizarrely dense.

The only reason florida state was in the game was because Freeman's D was terrible and not much better vs toledo, solid vs virginia tech. He even admitted to being shell shocked that his plan and scheme he thought was great and worked on for 9 months got exposed first game vs FSU, and how do you make huge changes in season then. we all know the offensive scheme early on in 2021 was not smart, but kelly did adjust it and our offense took off. Scoring 38 at FSU opening night, the game should have been over yet we gave up like 200 fourth quarter yards because the D was clueless. Scoring 32 at home vs toledo isn't great, but 32 at Tech in a night game is pretty darn good.

FSU had 264 rushing yards, against toledo (yes the coan threw a pick 6) Nd takes the lead to go up 8 then freeman's D allowed back to back TDs vs frichan toledo at home in the fourth quarter.

ND had insanely more talent that marshall and stanford. No clue how you even debate that.

 

[NDohio]

Wow - the insufferable, negativity on the board this weekend is really something. So glad the season is only weeks away - you people are depressing.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Ok, the losses were no fault of ND's head coach. Sure. Blame it all on the previous coach. He left Freeman with a dumpster fire and a team that "almost lost" to inferior opponents. Sure. Excuses, excuses. How many more years will Kelly bear the brunt of the blame?

Kyle Hamilton and Jack Coan bailed Kelly out and kept him from losing three games. Phew. Who recruited (got a transfer) those two? Oh and there was no Jack Coan in the portal? If I remember well, Freeman decided against getting a portal QB before even looking.

Kelly failed to recruit safety talent sufficiently to replace Hamilton? Absolutely right. Freeman doesn't seem to be doing much better recruiting safety either.

It seems to me that blaming the former head coach for the losses vs Marshall and Stanford is, as you say, insanely ignorant or bizarrely dense.

I am not a Kelly fan, far from it. I was enthralled when Freeman was hired. I hope he succeeds. But blaming those two losses on Kelly, and not Freeman, is something that I just can't buy.

I don't even blame Kelly's losses in 2010 or 2011 on Weis despite taking on a program that had players not knowing how to win. Kelly should have done better that year and beat michigan, tulsa, navy and gone 10-2. But at least he showed improvement of the program. Not only did freeman lose to inferior teams but the team as a whole took a step back. All season long the team struggled to make fourth quarter plays when needed, especially on D.

23 is a big season and should be a huge step forward. We go from having 2 of the worst power 5 qbs playing in 22 to one of the best in 23. no excuses

 

[NDQuebec]

Hate to interrupt this game of rock ‘em sock ‘em robots…but why can’t we just agree that BK had games like Marshall and Stanford every year, but his 30+ years of HC experience allowed him to win these games by a field goal instead of losing by the same margin?

And BK does share some culpability in the makeup of the roster in the first year after his departure.

I agree with both of your points in this game of rock'em sock'em robots (cute). I still maintain that the losses to Marshal and Stanford are not on Kelly. I also agree with the previous poster that 23 is a big season, for which I have high hopes. It will be a very telling season.

 

[Terry Jillery]

I’d argue we still have a chance if we beat Ohio State by 30 and win a playoff game.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Ok, the losses were no fault of ND's head coach. Sure. Blame it all on the previous coach. He left Freeman with a dumpster fire and a team that "almost lost" to inferior opponents. Sure. Excuses, excuses. How many more years will Kelly bear the brunt of the blame?

Kyle Hamilton and Jack Coan bailed Kelly out and kept him from losing three games. Phew. Who recruited (got a transfer) those two? Oh and there was no Jack Coan in the portal? If I remember well, Freeman decided against getting a portal QB before even looking.

Kelly failed to recruit safety talent sufficiently to replace Hamilton? Absolutely right. Freeman doesn't seem to be doing much better recruiting safety either.

It seems to me that blaming the former head coach for the losses vs Marshall and Stanford is, as you say, insanely ignorant or bizarrely dense.

I am not a Kelly fan, far from it. I was enthralled when Freeman was hired. I hope he succeeds. But blaming those two losses on Kelly, and not Freeman, is something that I just can't buy.

Again, that isn't what I'm saying at all. It's not a zero sum game.

Freeman's inexperience contributed to those poor showings. He absolutely is at fault. But the argument was that Kelly had ZERO to do with those losses, which is just flat out incorrect when practically the entire roster, and all of it's holes, were due to his poor recruiting efforts and those of his staff. It wasn't just about a lack of elite talent, it was simply a lack of quality talent and bodies at several positions, including the most important one (QB).

And as for this notion that Freeman decided against getting a portal QB. Yes, because who was available that was worth taking? The best names last year were Kedon Slovis and JT Daniels. Those two aren't good QB's. Were they better than Pyne? I don't think you can make a strong argument that they were. But Buchner had a far higher ceiling and you're trying to win. Slovis and Daniels proved they were not good last year, both were incredibly mediocre. So this notion that Freeman could've gotten a good QB in the portal last year is unfounded.

Freeman is doing considerably better than Kelly at recruiting safety. Outside of Hamilton, who had Kelly gotten in his last 4 seasons? You're looking at Litch Ajavon, Ramon Henderson, Ryan Barnes, Khari Gee and Justin Walters. I take Minich and Shuler over all of them in a millisecond. Then you have Tae Johnson and Ken Urlacher, who I'd also take over them. And I'm not even a big fan of taking Urlacher, but frankly, outside of Henderson, none of those guys proved they had the athleticism and ability to play safety. Some had 1, some had the other. None of them had both. Minich and Shuler absolutely have both.

Again, no coach deserves sole blame. I'm not arguing Kelly is 100% at fault for it, but he absolutely deserves a big chunk of the blame for the state of the roster and how ND had to rely on Drew Pyne to be the QB when Buchner went down. No disrespect to him, but ND shouldn't be in a position where their backup QB is that devoid of talent. That falls on Kelly and to an extent Chip Long and Tommy.

 

[NDQuebec]

Again, that isn't what I'm saying at all. It's not a zero sum game.

Freeman's inexperience contributed to those poor showings. He absolutely is at fault. But the argument was that Kelly had ZERO to do with those losses, which is just flat out incorrect when practically the entire roster, and all of it's holes, were due to his poor recruiting efforts and those of his staff. It wasn't just about a lack of elite talent, it was simply a lack of quality talent and bodies at several positions, including the most important one (QB).

And as for this notion that Freeman decided against getting a portal QB. Yes, because who was available that was worth taking? The best names last year were Kedon Slovis and JT Daniels. Those two aren't good QB's. Were they better than Pyne? I don't think you can make a strong argument that they were. But Buchner had a far higher ceiling and you're trying to win. Slovis and Daniels proved they were not good last year, both were incredibly mediocre. So this notion that Freeman could've gotten a good QB in the portal last year is unfounded.

Freeman is doing considerably better than Kelly at recruiting safety. Outside of Hamilton, who had Kelly gotten in his last 4 seasons? You're looking at Litch Ajavon, Ramon Henderson, Ryan Barnes, Khari Gee and Justin Walters. I take Minich and Shuler over all of them in a millisecond. Then you have Tae Johnson and Ken Urlacher, who I'd also take over them. And I'm not even a big fan of taking Urlacher, but frankly, outside of Henderson, none of those guys proved they had the athleticism and ability to play safety. Some had 1, some had the other. None of them had both. Minich and Shuler absolutely have both.

Again, no coach deserves sole blame. I'm not arguing Kelly is 100% at fault for it, but he absolutely deserves a big chunk of the blame for the state of the roster and how ND had to rely on Drew Pyne to be the QB when Buchner went down. No disrespect to him, but ND shouldn't be in a position where their backup QB is that devoid of talent. That falls on Kelly and to an extent Chip Long and Tommy.

ok

 

[forkbeard3777]

Any legit judgement on MFMF requires at least three years. All of you Pollyannas and Chicken Littles need to take a breath. In some metrics MFMF is already better than his predecessor and in a couple ways he hasn’t gotten there, yet. It’ll be better for your spouses/mothers/the board if all of you just shut the fuck up and post fun memes & GIFs and enjoy your summer.

I agree in giving a coach at least three years to assess.

I’m not sure how you grade Freeman for year one. Plenty of variables, but meh? C?
His second year will be very tellinging. You’ve got a few “premier games” and a couple of interesting ones — NC State and Pitt.

He needs to have a very good year and finish strong imo.

 

[T-Boone]

He has been a bit “meh” at getting coordinators and position coaches. That said he has had difficult tasks with for instance being stuck with rees and then rees quitting. The hires he makes to replace The Al’s (if it gets to that - they both need big seasons in terms of results) are important.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

I agree in giving a coach at least three years to assess.

I’m not sure how you grade Freeman for year one. Plenty of variables, but meh? C?
His second year will be very tellinging. You’ve got a few “premier games” and a couple of interesting ones — NC State and Pitt.

He needs to have a very good year and finish strong imo.

Damn right it will be

 

[forkbeard3777]

Feeding my youngest infant while trying to type with my fat thumb. Pardon my typos

 

[Rack Em]

Feeding my youngest infant while trying to type with my fat thumb. Pardon my typos

How’s breastfeeding going for you?

 

[stlnd01]

He has been a bit “meh” at getting coordinators and position coaches. That said he has had difficult tasks with for instance being stuck with rees and then rees quitting. The hires he makes to replace The Al’s (if it gets to that - they both need big seasons in terms of results) are important.

Del and Stuckey were home runs, as was Mason. Even if you consider Heistand a "Rees hire" (and Rees a Swarbrick hire, which I doubt is entirely the case), Rudolph looks pretty good. TBD on Gino but that feels like a very solid hire. Less impressed with Washington and underwhelmed by the coordinators. But overall it's been better than meh, IMO. Agree his next DC hire is a big one.

 

[dad4aa]

Can’t put all the blame on him. He had the OC he wanted and admin screwed it’s up.

 

[Blazers46]

Wow - the insufferable, negativity on the board this weekend is really something. So glad the season is only weeks away - you people are depressing.

Just wait until we beat Navy by only 29

 

[T-Boone]

Del and Stuckey were home runs, as was Mason. Even if you consider Heistand a "Rees hire" (and Rees a Swarbrick hire, which I doubt is entirely the case), Rudolph looks pretty good. TBD on Gino but that feels like a very solid hire. Less impressed with Washington and underwhelmed by the coordinators. But overall it's been better than meh, IMO. Agree his next DC hire is a big one.

Rudolph as a hire (so far) comes down to if we get Gurby or not. And I don’t think you mean Del but the RB coach.. Otherwise fair.

 

[stlnd01]

Rudolph as a hire comes down to if we get Gurby or not. And I don’t think you mean Del but the RB coach.. Otherwise fair.

Del…and McCullough?

Ha. But yes. Better referred to as DMC. To avoid confusion.
I’m optimistic on Lambert but more importantly I like the lines Rudolph built at Wisconsin. If he can do similar with access to better talent here, we’ll be just fine on that front.

 

[Grahambo]

Del and Stuckey were home runs, as was Mason. Even if you consider Heistand a "Rees hire" (and Rees a Swarbrick hire, which I doubt is entirely the case), Rudolph looks pretty good. TBD on Gino but that feels like a very solid hire. Less impressed with Washington and underwhelmed by the coordinators. But overall it's been better than meh, IMO. Agree his next DC hire is a big one.

I’d like for Mickens to get a shot at DC.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I'm torn on Al Golden. On one hand, it's still too early to tell his impact as a coach. I just wish we heard his name more on the trail. He seems like a very likable coach.

In regards to Washington, definitely too early. And despite missing on Justin Scott, I think he's done a good job recruiting. ND's DL class, as is, is very good. Mullins, Young and Thomas are underrated players. All three have ridiculously high ceilings, albeit they're a bit raw. But you can't coach that combination size and athleticism. A lot is going to come down to how the DL looks this year. We need to see improvements from the likes of Mills, Rubio and Botelho, and hopefully JJB becomes a better run defender.

This is a big year for both of them. I say, if the front 7 disappoints, then Freeman should look to move on from both.

 

[Luckylucci]

I’d like for Mickens to get a shot at DC.

Whether due to success or failure, if we lose Golden at the end of this season. I agree.

Let’s throw it back to a UC defense and see what Mickens and Freeman can do.

Though I’m sure there are a few names that’ll be available that would be quite attractive as well

 

[Crazy Balki]

Wholeheartedly, one way or another, if Golden leaves after this year, Mickens deserves to be promoted.

Dude knows exactly how a defense is supposed to be run working under Freeman for several years, both here and at Cincinnati.