Who's Next? - 2023 Edition

[MacIrish75]

That is just plain ridiculous.

If his name wasn’t Manning you wouldn’t be saying that.

You think Nick Saban & others care about the name or getting the best players?

He’s just under 6’4 and still growing, has a great arm, very accurate, athletic, and is considered very intelligent with super high football IQ. Then it turns out he has elite genetics…

That paragraph above, without naming him, is a 5 Star QB.

Having those genetics should be a bonus, not a negative.

So Ken Griffey Jr. turns out to have a borderline HOF brother, along with his All Star dad, & they have a nephew who is a great hitter, elite fielder, elite speed, super high baseball IQ, endless worker, with elite genetics… But yeah, no one would draft him because it’s just his last name…LOL

Have you watched him throw a ball? I’ll give you the intangibles, okay. But have you actually watched him throw a football. He consistently has his receivers waiting on the football. I do not think he has five star arm talent.

I’m not sure what my legitimate criticisms of Manning have to do with Junior Griffey, but go off. “Low four star” may have been a bit much, but I honestly don’t think if he didn’t have the pedigree he’d be a five star. I think Holstein, especially, is a better overall QB.

 

[IrishLax]

I’m also in the camp of Manning being overrated from a physical tools and film standpoint. People are literally projecting his upside off of his name/pedigree. They assume he will have the same intangibles as his uncles and grandfather (and he might!!!)… and intangibles are at least as important if not more important than physical tools when talking about NFL caliber QBs.

He has a mediocre arm, mediocre athleticism, decent accuracy, a slow-ish release, does not throw with anticipation. He has a good frame, and good footwork. He has played poorly against top competition in HS. Good prospect? Sure. But consensus #1 overall player? No fucking way unless you are giving him credit for something besides his film.

I agree with the idea that he’s either going to be a program savior or get a coach fired. One or the other. Because if he doesn’t pan out, fingers are going to get pointed everywhere but Manning.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I’m also in the camp of Manning being overrated from a physical tools and film standpoint. People are literally projecting his upside off of his name/pedigree. They assume he will have the same intangibles as his uncles and grandfather (and he might!!!)… and intangibles are at least as important if not more important than physical tools when talking about NFL caliber QBs.

He has a mediocre arm, mediocre athleticism, decent accuracy, a slow-ish release, does not throw with anticipation. He has a good frame, and good footwork. He has played poorly against top competition in HS. Good prospect? Sure. But consensus #1 overall player? No fucking way unless you are giving him credit for something besides his film.

I agree with the idea that he’s either going to be a program savior or get a coach fired. One or the other. Because if he doesn’t pan out, fingers are going to get pointed everywhere but Manning.

So, an overhyped QB with the right last name and physical traits that is interested in Texas. Where have I seen this before? Oh yea....

 

[INLaw]

So, an overhyped QB with the right last name and physical traits that is interested in Texas. Where have I seen this before? Oh yea....

Sims?

 

[Rizzophil]

Anyone else scheduled to announce before Gray on 7/4?

 

[chisea03]

Anyone else scheduled to announce before Gray on 7/4?

Rico

 

[Ndaccountant]

Sims?

Yep. He was actually a good QB. But the hype was so great and he could never live up to it. The 2001 Big12 championship game is a worse version of the 93 BC/ND game. He choked and his reputation would never recover.

 

[NDty9]

Yep. He was actually a good QB. But the hype was so great and he could never live up to it. The 2001 Big12 championship game is a worse version of the 93 BC/ND game. He choked and his reputation would never recover.

Really like him as an analyst/pod caster though! Wish he was doing ND games next year

 

[Reaper97]

Yep. He was actually a good QB. But the hype was so great and he could never live up to it. The 2001 Big12 championship game is a worse version of the 93 BC/ND game. He choked and his reputation would never recover.

Until he got drafted & played in the NFL you mean…

The example you are coming with is a single case, not even a strong one, about a kid who’s dad wasn’t as good as any of the Manning’s, let alone all three, who did play in the NFL?
That’s not very strong.

 

[Irish#1]

Really like him as an analyst/pod caster though! Wish he was doing ND games next year

Yeah, he's a great analyst.

There are better prospects than Manning and he is probably getting the benefit of his last name. I'll keep saying this until I die, but the mental/intangibles are as or more important as the physical traits. Peyton didn't have a rocket launcher for an arm and his speed was like a diesel train pulling out of the rail yards, but he beat you with his brain. Will he end up an elite college or NFL QB? Hard to say at this point, but he has a good family coaching staff to rely on.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I'm not someone who can evaluate film at all, but for those who think Arch is overrated, what would be your QB rankings for this class? Again, I'm not trying to start anything because I know absolutely nothing when it comes to talent evaluations, just want to see how the class stacks up in your opinions.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Until he got drafted & played in the NFL you mean…

The example you are coming with is a single case, not even a strong one, about a kid who’s dad wasn’t as good as any of the Manning’s, let alone all three, who did play in the NFL?
That’s not very strong.

So, my OP was around 1) a "can't miss" QB that was overhyped due to their last name 2) didn't match the hype 3) was interested / went to Texas.

Not many instances of that historically speaking. But I never said Sims sucked (I even said he was a good QB in the post you referenced). But you ask any Texas fan....not one that I know looks back fondly on the Chris Simms era and it has everything to do with that Big12 Championship game. That was their natty chance before Vince Young got them over the hump.

 

[Dale]

 

[MacIrish75]

Laaaaaawd if we go 4/4 on that list of dudes…

 

[NDIrish88]

No way on Caleb downs

 

[Irish#1]

No way on Caleb downs

Don’t be a party pooper.

 

[Reaper97]

Driskell gave a really positive update on Micah Bell.
And Ryan Roberts talked to Love & Love says he would play all three positions on ND…RB, WR and CB if they wanted him to. Said he is closing in on a decision and wants to make it after he finishes his visits.

 

[arrowryan]

Driskell gave a really positive update on Micah Bell.
And Ryan Roberts talked to Love & Love says he would play all three positions on ND…RB, WR and CB if they wanted him to. Said he is closing in on a decision and wants to make it after he finishes his visits.

Pretty sure Bell is a silent.

The Irish are in great position to really bolster their secondary during the first week of July.

 

[Reaper97]

Pretty sure Bell is a silent.

The Irish are in great position to really bolster their secondary during the first week of July.

Yeah, Bell released a top 10, then at the same time announced his decision date, and scheduled his only OV, which is to ND.
Pretty clear unless Harvard drops the bag on him (which is hilarious because who could give a player more money then Harvard?)

 

[stlnd01]

Yeah, Bell released a top 10, then at the same time announced his decision date, and scheduled his only OV, which is to ND.
Pretty clear unless Harvard drops the bag on him (which is hilarious because who could give a player more money then Harvard?)

Honestly how awesome would it be if Harvard just started dropping huge bags?

 

[Reaper97]

Honestly how awesome would it be if Harvard just started dropping huge bags?

They would chuckle at Nico’s deal.

They would be like, “do you want a Fortune 500 company valued at $2 billion, here you go…”

 

[du Lac]

They would chuckle at Nico’s deal.

They would be like, “do you want a Fortune 500 company valued at $2 billion, here you go…”

Without question, Harvard would win more titles than Bama and ND combined if they felt like it.

 

[SoIll]

I think Arch is overrated but also think he’s still a 5 star QB. I think if you’re rating on potential which most of the services do, it doesn’t make sense any/all that have Nico I and Malachi Nelson below Arch Manning. If you haven’t watched, you don’t realize how often he bailed himself out with his legs. TON of running highlights and comes off some throws when he does stand in. Doesn’t possess Trevor or Fields like athleticism at the next level though.

Tier A: Malachi Nelson or Nico I
Tier B: Chris Vizzina, Dante Moore, Arch Manning (and CJ Carr)
Tier C: Jackson Arnold, Jaden Rashada, Eli Holstein (and Drew Allar, Cade Klubnik)

A deserves the eventual #1 pick type potential hype. B are 5 star prospects. C are high 4 star type.

List is spot on. Though I may have Arnold in the Tier B group.

 

[du Lac]

List is spot on. Though I may have Arnold in the Tier B group.

Is this in retrospect? Wasn’t Drew Allar a legit 5 star? Also interesting on Holstein. Is Saban just better at evaluating talent than everyone else (Mac Jones)? Or, are his coaches just far superior at developing QBs? There’s certainly something to be said about landing legit 6’3+ 4 star kids that are wanted in the SEC (I.e., Chris Vizzina). I think an interesting thread would be “why is CJ Carr better than Dayne Crist and Gunner Kiel?” If anyones able to evaluate talent, that should lead to some interesting conversation.

 

[notredomer23]

Is this in retrospect? Wasn’t Drew Allar a legit 5 star? Also interesting on Holstein. Is Saban just better at evaluating talent than everyone else (Mac Jones)? Or, are his coaches just far superior at developing QBs? There’s certainly something to be said about landing legit 6’3+ 4 star kids that are wanted in the SEC (I.e., Chris Vizzina). I think an interesting thread would be “why is CJ Carr better than Dayne Crist and Gunner Kiel?” If anyones able to evaluate talent, that should lead to some interesting conversation.

IMO on Allar but he looked horrendous in the all star game and even worse in PSU’s spring apparently. It’s been said before but he’s either gonna be Josh Allen or bust. Gonna take some time for his development.

 

[IrishLion]

Is this in retrospect? Wasn’t Drew Allar a legit 5 star? Also interesting on Holstein. Is Saban just better at evaluating talent than everyone else (Mac Jones)? Or, are his coaches just far superior at developing QBs? There’s certainly something to be said about landing legit 6’3+ 4 star kids that are wanted in the SEC (I.e., Chris Vizzina). I think an interesting thread would be “why is CJ Carr better than Dayne Crist and Gunner Kiel?” If anyones able to evaluate talent, that should lead to some interesting conversation.

The first bold: yes. The machine just keeps scouting, coaching, developing, etc. It doesn't matter who's on staff... they just keep on trucking.

The second bold: Outside of the physical aspect, both of those guys were just mentally broken. Crist looked like a Heisman-caliber QB after the MSU game in 2010... but then we all found out how bad he was at protecting himself when running, he got his bell rung a couple of times, hurt his knee against Tulsa, BK mishandled the QB competition to start 2011, and Crist was never the same mentally from any of it. Kiel was a legit 5-star talent, and flashed a lot of that when he got his chance at UC in 2014, but he had some mental hurdles to overcome, both at ND and then at UC.

 

[NDMatt91]

The first bold: yes. The machine just keeps scouting, coaching, developing, etc. It doesn't matter who's on staff... they just keep on trucking.

The second bold: Outside of the physical aspect, both of those guys were just mentally broken. Crist looked like a Heisman-caliber QB after the MSU game in 2010... but then we all found out how bad he was at protecting himself when running, he got his bell rung a couple of times, hurt his knee against Tulsa, BK mishandled the QB competition to start 2011, and Crist was never the same mentally from any of it. Kiel was a legit 5-star talent, and flashed a lot of that when he got his chance at UC in 2014, but he had some mental hurdles to overcome, both at ND and then at UC.

I've heard that Bama and UGA have 30-ish analysts who only watch film of recruits and send them to Saban and Kirby and the particular position coaches for review.

 

[CoachB]

Is this in retrospect? Wasn’t Drew Allar a legit 5 star? Also interesting on Holstein. Is Saban just better at evaluating talent than everyone else (Mac Jones)? Or, are his coaches just far superior at developing QBs? There’s certainly something to be said about landing legit 6’3+ 4 star kids that are wanted in the SEC (I.e., Chris Vizzina). I think an interesting thread would be “why is CJ Carr better than Dayne Crist and Gunner Kiel?” If anyones able to evaluate talent, that should lead to some interesting conversation.

I think a lot of it has to do with the guys on the outside. Wide open, speedy receivers make a QB look better than guys who get no separation. As a former QB, I can tell you that having all day to throw to open receivers is not very hard. Running for your life with blanketed receivers make you look like a much worse QB.

 

[DONTH8]

I've heard that Bama and UGA have 30-ish analysts who only watch film of recruits and send them to Saban and Kirby and the particular position coaches for review.

I've heard it's 35, and they also look up past girlfriends to see if they were hot to make sure they're getting alphas.

 

[Laker]

I think Arch is overrated but also think he’s still a 5 star QB. I think if you’re rating on potential which most of the services do, it doesn’t make sense any/all that have Nico I and Malachi Nelson below Arch Manning. If you haven’t watched, you don’t realize how often he bailed himself out with his legs. TON of running highlights and comes off some throws when he does stand in. Doesn’t possess Trevor or Fields like athleticism at the next level though.

Tier A: Malachi Nelson or Nico I
Tier B: Chris Vizzina, Dante Moore, Arch Manning (and CJ Carr)
Tier C: Jackson Arnold, Jaden Rashada, Eli Holstein (and Drew Allar, Cade Klubnik)

A deserves the eventual #1 pick type potential hype. B are 5 star prospects. C are high 4 star type.

I agree on Klubnik being in the tier C even though he ended up #6 on the composite last year. I thought he was really, really good in all the areas that did not include arm strength. Super accurate, good mechanics, good athlete and obviously played big-time competition. However, there's only so many guys that can be Joe Burrow or Mac Jones. When you do not have a huge arm, there is a small margin for error.

The other takeaway from his film is just what a dominant HS player Greathouse is. Would love to land him, even though I get the concerns about him being close to maxed out physically like CJ Williams. To be able to run routes like he does at that size as a junior in high school is very impressive. Add that to his ball skills and size and he's a big-time player.