2022 - State of the Recruiting Class thread

[NDdomer2]

I really hope we get to judge Rees when he has a full roster of guys he recruited for the offense he wants to run.

 

[Luckylucci]

Rees has a lot to prove and I hope he gets the time to do so. But, I'm in 100% show me mode for offensive recruiting and coaching. I was a fan of the hire and I've given him credit where credit is due. But, there are plenty of reasons for criticism at this point. Too much to ignore and hopefully those are all being addressed and we start to see the results soon.

 

[Trait Expectations]

I really hope we get to judge Rees when he has a full roster of guys he recruited for the offense he wants to run.

That's where I'm at. Last year he really overperformed given his top 2 WRs going into the season were hurt (Austin, Lenzy) and his QB wouldn't pull the trigger on open players downfield. Plus, our RBs were a giant question mark going into the year. Last year still had a lot of great memories and we're solidifying our position in the top 6-8, now we just need to take another step.

Rees knows this offense has to be different this year, I'm really excited to see how he puts the pieces together. He has a lot of talent to use and he knows what we can expect from the RBs and TEs. Now we'll see who wants to step up in the WR, OL and QB rooms.

 

[Irish#1]

It's a little more than that. Despite coming in with the reputation of a 4-vert spread guru who could "manufacture offense" at will, Kelly's hallmark at ND has been defense.

That's because BK knows you need a very good D when you step up to the next level.

Unfortunately for Tommy (who is not outspoken), BK hired a DC with a rah rah salesman personality and is being unfairly judged by that.

 

[Luckylucci]

That's where I'm at. Last year he really overperformed given his top 2 WRs going into the season were hurt (Austin, Lenzy) and his QB wouldn't pull the trigger on open players downfield. Plus, our RBs were a giant question mark going into the year. Last year still had a lot of great memories and we're solidifying our position in the top 6-8, now we just need to take another step.

Rees knows this offense has to be different this year, I'm really excited to see how he puts the pieces together. He has a lot of talent to use and he knows what we can expect from the RBs and TEs. Now we'll see who wants to step up in the WR, OL and QB rooms.

Some of that is coaching, right? He's been the QB coach since 2017. Did Book improve on the things he didn't do well from back in 2018? Did his pocket presence get better? Did he get better at going through is progressions and moving the offense from the pocket? Or, did Rees just let him do what he was good at? Which is fine but it doesn't really show much coaching and give us reasons to expect the next QB will improve due to Rees, right? FWIW, all of Ian's meaningful stats were worse, in 2020, than they were in 2018, and some of them cratered in 2019.

Those things don't give me optimism that the next QB that he coaches for a few years will be any different. But, I'm willing to give him time to figure it out with his offense and recruits.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Some of that is coaching, right? He's been the QB coach since 2017. Did Book improve on the things he didn't do well from back in 2018? Did his pocket presence get better? Did he get better at going through is progressions and moving the offense from the pocket? Or, did Rees just let him do what he was good at? Which is fine but it doesn't really show much coaching and give us reasons to expect the next QB will improve due to Rees, right? FWIW, all of Ian's meaningful stats were worse, in 2020, than they were in 2018, and some of them cratered in 2019.

Those things don't give me optimism that the next QB that he coaches for a few years will be any different. But, I'm willing to give him time to figure it out with his offense and recruits.

Like all things, there is no one explanation. I don't know if you can coach that out of a player. I don't know if a player who is gunshy and has only shown a penchant for throwing up 50/50 balls downfield all of a sudden fixes that. Some might have a mental breakthrough but Ian never appeared to read the defense quickly. He was good at going through his first couple reads but we all know he had a propensity to tuck and run when he felt the slightest bit of pressure.

Rees in his first year, has shown the ability to mold the offense around what his players are capable of even with last minute defections/losses in personnel. He gets another year from me before I can assess what he is/isn't capable of. He has a completely different QB this year and very different strengths/weaknesses to start the season.

 

[NDdomer2]

Yeah a good coach maximizes his players ability. Do we know if Rees maximized Book or not? May never been able to tell.

What kind of decision making/coaching went into the way Book threw (or didnt throw). Have to think there was some serious discussions about we have a very good defense just dont fuck shit up taking low percentage chances.

On the other hand there certainly wasnt much improvement over the years either. But thats been the case with QBs for Kelly pre-Rees too so ?

I certainly am not here saying Rees deserves no criticism but the constant "Can Freeman coach O" or "Rees should be at GVSU" type comments seem unfounded as well.

 

[Rack Em]

That's because BK knows you need a very good D when you step up to the next level.

Well then it's time to start swinging a big D on offense!

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

No. Didn’t think I conveyed a tone of less than calm, just expressing a possible opposite view point. It is the “state of the recruiting class” thread.

Whiskey is going to finish his coffee dude

 

[ThePiombino]

Rees has a lot to prove and I hope he gets the time to do so. But, I'm in 100% show me mode for offensive recruiting and coaching. I was a fan of the hire and I've given him credit where credit is due. But, there are plenty of reasons for criticism at this point. Too much to ignore and hopefully those are all being addressed and we start to see the results soon.

That's what happens when ND does on the job training.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

37, bruh. I'm not officially "old" for three more years.

But you are wise beyond your years fam. If I had 25% of your mindscape I could have been a contender

 

[tussin]

I'm of the opinion that personnel largely dictates scheme. Book + Javon/Skow/Davis does not equate to a dynamic offense. The fact that Rees was able to carve out a top 20 offense with last year's squad is pretty impressive IMO.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That's because BK knows you need a very good D when you step up to the next level.

Unfortunately for Tommy (who is not outspoken), BK hired a DC with a rah rah salesman personality and is being unfairly judged by that.

You're talking to the guy who was anti-Fleck from day 1 because I hate shtick. So if anything, that's a mark in Rees' favor.

For a 1st year OC, he did extremely well. But you don't get the benefit of a handicap when coaching at ND, and odds are not good that he can out-recruit and out-coach Venables and Saban.

 

[jason_h537]

I find the comments in here so weird. Like do yo guys think when plays are drawn up with multiple routes and options, Rees tells his QB to only throw 50/50 balls to the outside?

When you see film breakdowns showing Tremble wide open down only for Book to not see him, that that is coached?

That Rees is out of his element because when he saw his roster had an elite O-Line, 3 deep at TE, 2 big bodied WR's, and a stable of talented Running Backs, he decided the best bet to win was to run it down people's throats?

I get that you wish ND could go 3-4 wide and spread it all over like Bama and Oklahoma but the roster isn't built that way.

As for Rees as a recruiter, he was heavily in keeping Meyer and Johnson as well as landing Colzie, Styles, and Buchner.


Does this mean Rees is beyond criticism or perfect? No. But there seems to be people jumping through hoops to fault him for the hand he was dealt when he has made the most f that hand in his one year in charge of the offense and as a lead recruiter.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Does this mean Rees is beyond criticism or perfect? No. But there seems to be people jumping through hoops to fault him for the hand he was dealt when he has made the most f that hand in his one year in charge of the offense and as a lead recruiter.

I haven't seen many people faulting Rees for our offensive weaknesses in 2020. Most fans seem super impressed with what he accomplished as a first year coordinator. But it's not being unfair to Rees to point out: (1) that mediocre offensive production has been a perennial issue for Kelly's ND teams; (2) that we have a lot more work to do to close the gap with 'Bama and Clemson on that side of the ball; and (3) that taking the next step offensively would be a huge task for even the most experienced OCs in the country, let alone a scrappy ND alumnus in his first major coaching gig.

 

[Dale]

I haven't seen many people faulting Rees for our offensive weaknesses in 2020. Most fans seem super impressed with what he accomplished as a first year coordinator. But it's not being unfair to Rees to point out: (1) that mediocre offensive production has been a perennial issue for Kelly's ND teams; (2) that we have a lot more work to do to close the gap with 'Bama and Clemson on that side of the ball; and (3) that taking the next step offensively would be a huge task for even the most experienced OCs in the country, let alone a scrappy ND alumnus in his first major coaching gig.

Tony Elliott was a scrappy Clemson alumnus in his first major coaching gig at one point.

 

[BrownerandFry]

You're talking to the guy who was anti-Fleck from day 1 because I hate shtick. So if anything, that's a mark in Rees' favor.

For a 1st year OC, he did extremely well. But you don't get the benefit of a handicap when coaching at ND, and odds are not good that he can out-recruit and out-coach Venables and Saban.

I share your distaste for Fleck. Slick does not impress me, and it wears thin eventually.

.

 

[greyhammer90]

I think a lot of the angst surrounding offensive recruiting can be illustrated with the visitor list for the BBQ happening later this month (stealing from Crus's list on another thread):

2023

Brenan Vernon ......... 5* DE
Drayk Bowen ............ 5* LB
TaMere Robinson ..... 4* LB
King Mack -............... 4* S
Derrick LeBlanc ........ 4* DE
Adon Shuler ............. S
Moussa Kane ........... S
Luke Montgomery ..... 4* DT (Maybe)

2024

Anythony Speca ........ LB

In case you don't see the pattern, they all play defense.

The recruiting results between the two sides aren't disparate... yet. But there's a lot of momentum going for the defense that shows that this isn't business as usual and that the gap is being shrunk with the big boys. Offensive recruiting feels like we're treading water. It's early, and it might be that Rees and co. will have a great 2023 class, but there's just not much excitement.

 

[Ndaccountant]

If BK decided tomorrow to pull a Bob Stoops, who here would advocate for Tommy over Freeman? I certainly wouldn't and I think that's the point.

 

[Dale]

It's early, and it might be that Rees and co. will have a great 2023 class, but there's just not much excitement.

Carnell Tate visited 3 times in June. All 3 elite TE offers visited in June. 6 of the top 15 OL in the country visited. Our top and most realistic QB option visited. 2 of the top RBs in the country visited.

Are those on par with what Freeman is churning out? Maybe not. But June was a successful month for 2023 recruiting for O. Why aren’t their O guys on the July visit list yet? Idk those confirms have just started coming through but hopefully we see more, on both sides.

 

[NDdomer2]

If BK decided tomorrow to pull a Bob Stoops, who here would advocate for Tommy over Freeman? I certainly wouldn't and I think that's the point.

So now the measure of success for our coordinators is who you would make HC in the event of a unexpected coach retirement?

TBH I think Elston gets the interim gig in your scenario

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

The real question is - when are we going to have to switch over recruited DBs to WR? Over/under 2024

 

[Irish#1]

You're talking to the guy who was anti-Fleck from day 1 because I hate shtick. So if anything, that's a mark in Rees' favor.

For a 1st year OC, he did extremely well. But you don't get the benefit of a handicap when coaching at ND, and odds are not good that he can out-recruit and out-coach Venables and Saban.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Freeman is at the Schtick level. Just a more outspoken personality that knows how to sell.

Venables got Tommy in the CCG, but don't forget that Tommy got Venables in the first game. Tommy hasn't been at it long enough to know what we really have in an OC, but if we have some WR's this year, this should give us a pretty good idea. BK knows Tommy better than any of us and I doubt he would risk the success of the program if he didn't think Tommy was the man for the job.

 

[Irish#1]

Some of that is coaching, right? He's been the QB coach since 2017. Did Book improve on the things he didn't do well from back in 2018? Did his pocket presence get better? Did he get better at going through is progressions and moving the offense from the pocket? Or, did Rees just let him do what he was good at? Which is fine but it doesn't really show much coaching and give us reasons to expect the next QB will improve due to Rees, right? FWIW, all of Ian's meaningful stats were worse, in 2020, than they were in 2018, and some of them cratered in 2019.

Those things don't give me optimism that the next QB that he coaches for a few years will be any different. But, I'm willing to give him time to figure it out with his offense and recruits.

I'm more in line with Trait on this. I'm a firm believer TR coached and talked to Book about going deep. A coach can only do so much and then it's up to the QB to sink or swim. There are a ton of QB's that have the physical tools, but fall short on the mental side. Your mental makeup is who you are and it's not going to change so if you have a deep seated fear of throwing deep, you will always justify dumping it off. So why was Book the starter if he has those limitations? Because even with those limitations, he was still the best option of what was available.

 

[Ndaccountant]

So now the measure of success for our coordinators is who you would make HC in the event of a unexpected coach retirement?

TBH I think Elston gets the interim gig in your scenario

No, more like Freemans history and impact thus far seems to shine a bit brighter. It isn't a negative to Tommy per se, just that Freeman really seems like the real deal.

 

[BrownerandFry]

Ok, back to the state of the recruiting class. For the moment, let's stay on the defensive side.

\We now have a full complement of 11 2022 defensive commits, enough for a 3-4-4, 3 DLS 4 LBS, 4DBS.

So we have four targets left on D (assuming Pope is red herring)

And it is as if they were designed by Marvel Comics:

The Fab Four

The X Man
Der Deutsche HERO
Anthony Lucas Skywalker
.
Cyrus (the Virus- after Malkovich in Con Air) Moss

The Fab four.

Sooo, what the likely result:
0-4? (and the board commits mass consensual seppuku)
4-4 giddy orgiastic celebration with the only controversy being selection of a pivot man
\1-4
2-4
3-4?

And before you answer consider that if we had asked you 200 days ago, when Orgeron was still wooing Freeman, what our class would look like on July 15th, what would your answer have. been?

Fab four. get used to it. .

 

[Dale]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rockin’Irish]

I would say I’d be pretty solid on 2 for 4 but close to predicting 3 for 4……..

 

[IrishLax]

I would be really surprised if we didn't land Merriweather and CJ Williams at this point. Both are taking their time, to varying degrees, so a lot can change but I think ND has been putting in work there and is going to close. Schrauth and his dad are ND fans, I think that wins out versus pressure from other sources. No clue on the rest. I think/hope ND will close well though... keeping guys in the fold will be the bigger challenge. There are a lot of thirsty coaching staffs out there.

 

[arrowryan]

I would be really surprised if we didn't land Merriweather and CJ Williams at this point. Both are taking their time, to varying degrees, so a lot can change but I think ND has been putting in work there and is going to close. Schrauth and his dad are ND fans, I think that wins out versus pressure from other sources. No clue on the rest. I think/hope ND will close well though... keeping guys in the fold will be the bigger challenge. There are a lot of thirsty coaching staffs out there.

Yeah, I think that comes with the territory when you land top guys. The staff has done a really good job at keeping guys though. I can't fault them with the 2022 decommits though. Nickel was kinda forced out and Agu doesn't like competition.