2016 Presidential Horse Race

[MJ12666]

This is just an amazing article. Confirms my worst fears about Trump. There is no deeper, private Trump.

The most disturbing thing to me is the inability to focus on anything for more than an hour at a time, even on a book about himself. There is just no way this guy has the frame of reference to be a competent political executive, when he doesn't have the patience to do his homework.

I try to be realistic about the fact that not everybody is a reader, and that's ok:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ddf2bc-4932-11e6-90a8-fb84201e0645_story.html
But this guy seems to have deeper problems with concentration. That seems like a problem for a president.

First you need to consider the source. The New Yorker and the Washington Post are both going to go out of their way to find something/anything to write that will be negative about Trump. I am not going to waste my time reading either one.

Second, what do you think the President does, sit in front of a computer doing research all day. They get a briefing that my guess last maybe an hour. All the president needs to focus a short period of time, get recommendations and make a decision. They don't need to sit there for days pondering an issue.

 

[GATTACA!]

And the complete article confirms that Trump is stuck between 38-40% and Clinton has increased her lead to 2%, 41% to 39%. If Trump has an 11 point lead among independents (and it's a big if since he remains in the 38-40% range overall) it's not doing him any good.

I'd didn't say he was winning because of it. Just pointing out that independents isn't where he needs to improve like you had said. Can't expect to go much higher than +11.

He should be much more concerned with getting black and Latino voters. He's polling at 0% with blacks in Ohio.

 

[irishfan]

This is just an amazing article. Confirms my worst fears about Trump. There is no deeper, private Trump.

The most disturbing thing to me is the inability to focus on anything for more than an hour at a time, even on a book about himself. There is just no way this guy has the frame of reference to be a competent political executive, when he doesn't have the patience to do his homework.

I try to be realistic about the fact that not everybody is a reader, and that's ok:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ddf2bc-4932-11e6-90a8-fb84201e0645_story.html
But this guy seems to have deeper problems with concentration. That seems like a problem for a president.

There's no reason why this guy would lie, and the fact that Trump hasn't sent out a series of angry tweets about him makes one suspicious.

But Trump has literally run his campaign exactly how the book is written. So much of his "free media" can be seen in that book alone. I'm sure the author went out of his way to make Trump seem like a better person than he really is, but I'm not sure I buy his arguments that Trump lacks real intelligence. People can complain about how he lacks specifics or how he blusters through interviews, but you don't get this far in an election without having intelligence. The ways he tricks the media show that to me. Doesn't mean he's qualified to be President, but he is not the idiot that this author wants you to think he is.

 

[Emcee77]

First you need to consider the source. The New Yorker and the Washington Post are both going to go out of their way to find something/anything to write that will be negative about Trump. I am not going to waste my time reading either one.

Second, what do you think the President does, sit in front of a computer doing research all day. They get a briefing that my guess last maybe an hour. All the president needs to focus a short period of time, get recommendations and make a decision. They don't need to sit there for days pondering an issue.

I have a number of problems with this post.

First, your objections to the sources are misplaced in this case.

The New Yorker piece is a long interview with the guy who co-wrote the Art of the Deal. Not much filtering by the magazine.

As for the WaPo piece I linked, it really agrees with you more than disagrees. The writer gets quotes from presidential scholars who actually suggest that some presidents who read too much on their own struggled as executives, because the excessive info intake caused paralysis by analysis. It's true that some perfectly good presidents make decisions based on short memos as opposed to longer briefings, and that's ok. I thought it was clear from my post that I was citing the WaPo article as something that should make us LESS concerned about Trump's reading habits, or lack thereof.

But more importantly, you've at least partially missed my point. I want a president who has a frame of reference. (I used that term in my earlier post.) That means someone who has broad knowledge of the world and can bring that knowledge to bear in making executive decisions that affect ordinary people. I am certain a person who can't read a book doesn't have that knowledge.

And in any case, there are certainly issues that require longer study than a brief memo in order to gain familiarity with all the alternatives. Call me crazy, but I want a president who is at least capable of digesting large amounts of information if necessary, although I agree with you that with respect to many issues it isn't necessary.

 

[Emcee77]

There's no reason why this guy would lie, and the fact that Trump hasn't sent out a series of angry tweets about him makes one suspicious.

But Trump has literally run his campaign exactly how the book is written. So much of his "free media" can be seen in that book alone. I'm sure the author went out of his way to make Trump seem like a better person than he really is, but I'm not sure I buy his arguments that Trump lacks real intelligence. People can complain about how he lacks specifics or how he blusters through interviews, but you don't get this far in an election without having intelligence. The ways he tricks the media show that to me. Doesn't mean he's qualified to be President, but he is not the idiot that this author wants you to think he is.

Agreed that Trump must be intelligent. I don't doubt that at all. The issue is not his intelligence, but his ignorance, and whether it is a product of an inability to concentrate. Different issue, different concept.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Agreed that Trump must be intelligent. I don't doubt that at all. The issue is not his intelligence, but his ignorance, and whether it is a product of an inability to concentrate. Different issue, different concept.

I would argue that his intelligence is very domain specific.

 

[wizards8507]

I would argue that his intelligence is very domain specific.

"Educated incapacity." It's basically the idea your brain can be so full of information in a certain sector that you're clueless in many others.

See: My mother in-law, Ph.D. and her sister, Ph.D.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Hilariously bad look considering Trump is trying to be the "anti-Obama".... but....

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8M6x1H08aFc?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FgctsioisJg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QIaALKHVrAA?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#justsayin'

Wonder if Trump was using a speech writer that worked on Michelle's speech.

To be fair, Deval Patrick is Obama's friend. He told him to use some of his lines.

And Biden got out of the 1988 race in part because of these allegations.

 

[irishfan]

Agreed that Trump must be intelligent. I don't doubt that at all. The issue is not his intelligence, but his ignorance, and whether it is a product of an inability to concentrate. Different issue, different concept.

Well he said he can't focus or read a full book so I think he's implying a lack of intelligence without actually saying it.

 

[EddytoNow]

Well he said he can't focus or read a full book so I think he's implying a lack of intelligence without actually saying it.

Well, if Trump is not up on the issues of the day, he will be dependent upon his advisers. Who are his advisers? When asked where he gets his military information he responded that he watched the shows, meaning the Cable TV News shows. I would hope that he is not taking his military advice from Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews and the other talking heads. Who will Trump listen to for advice? They better have a good grasp of the issues, because Trump appears incapable of understanding the wider implications of a rash judgement on his part or too uninformed to make an intelligent decision without some top-notch advisers.

I suspect everyone associated with Bush is out, meaning no Neo-Cons for Trump. There is no love lost between the Bush's and Trump. When the Bush's and their teams of advisers are eliminated, there are no Republicans with inside the Whitehouse experience unless you go back to the Reagan days, which would not leave them very current on today's issues.

Who are some of the people he can turn to for advice?

 

[IrishLax]

To be fair, Deval Patrick is Obama's friend. He told him to use some of his lines.

And Biden got out of the 1988 race in part because of these allegations.

All true, in fact Obama used one of the same speech writers that worked for Patrick. My point was more that a lot of stuff gets recycled in politics.

 

[phgreek]

Agreed that Trump must be intelligent. I don't doubt that at all. The issue is not his intelligence, but his ignorance, and whether it is a product of an inability to concentrate. Different issue, different concept.

Donald Trump reminds me of someone with serious IQ but ADD/ADHD. Smart enough to manipulate, quick on their feet...but can't do details...and survive/thrive on creating consternation. Trump has learned how to make it all benefit himself...and he may be ok in the captains chair...but no where else.

As a side note...all you burgeoning captains of industry...learn how to pick these guys out, and get them out of your organization, because they'll kill morale, and revenue.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Agreed that Trump must be intelligent. I don't doubt that at all. The issue is not his intelligence, but his ignorance, and whether it is a product of an inability to concentrate. Different issue, different concept.

I don't think it is ignorance, it's calculated. He clearly prefers to be held in high esteem and is status seeking. Anyone that he feels is a threat to his status, gets a callous response. It's not about being smart or ignorant, it's about getting people to "buy in" to the persona that he wants to exude. If he is able to get you to buy in, he won. If you don't, well, then F*** you. If he makes that F*** you response reprehensible enough, he thinks it discourages others from getting in his way.

It's a calculation of power and in most cases, it has worked for him. Just won't this time, since this election isn't about leverage, it's about getting people to vote to him.

 

[kmoose]

I suspect everyone associated with Bush is out, meaning no Neo-Cons for Trump. There is no love lost between the Bush's and Trump. When the Bush's and their teams of advisers are eliminated, there are no Republicans with inside the Whitehouse experience unless you go back to the Reagan days, which would not leave them very current on today's issues.

Who are some of the people he can turn to for advice?

There is a name for these people.................


The Joint Chiefs of Staff is the common moniker that they are known by. Every President is dependent on his advisors, in some way, shape, or form. Do you honestly think that Kennedy, Reagan, Bush, Clinton were experts in the economy, taxes, infectious diseases, farming, special forces tactics, air combat, and the geopolitical situation of every area of the world? No. They relied on people who were experts in those areas.

 

[woolybug25]

RNC official cites 'My Little Pony' to defend Melania Trump - CNNPolitics.com

Do people really buy this stuff? C'mon... They are the exact words, in order, in the same convention speech. There is literally nothing that won't be spun that Trump supporters won't eat up.

 

[BobbyMac]

.

 

[woolybug25]

Page after page of what I thought to be intelligent people trying to convince one another that their turd is shiny while the other's stinks. I don't know how you guys do it?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Page after page of what I thought to be intelligent people trying to convince one another that their turd is shiny while the other's stinks. I don't know how you guys do it?

 

[dshans]

In the words of Flip Wilson, then, "The Devil Made Me Do It!"

This lets everyone off the hook.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

In the words of Bogs, the words of Lou Holtz have soured me (on Lou.) I have had a bad day anyway, but hearing Lou's bootlicking anti-immigrant comments have made it clear that he is no longer the high-character hero that he once was.

I will not take down his quotes, or get rid of his memorabilia, but I will never hold in in any regard again. What a shame.

 

[phgreek]

In the words of Bogs, the words of Lou Holtz have soured me (on Lou.) I have had a bad day anyway, but hearing Lou's bootlicking anti-immigrant comments have made it clear that he is no longer the high-character hero that he once was.

I will not take down his quotes, or get rid of his memorabilia, but I will never hold in in any regard again. What a shame.

What did he say?

 

[BobbyMac]

.

 

[Buster Bluth]

“I don’t want to become you,” he continued. “I don’t want to speak your language, I don’t want to celebrate your holidays, I sure as hell don’t want to cheer for your soccer team!”

“A lot of people make a living by the way they vote,” Holtz said. “Forty-seven percent of people make a living by the way they vote.”

Lou Holtz at RNC Says Immigrants Are Deadbeats Invading the U.S. - The Daily Beast

Sad. The GOP went through hell over that 47% statistic, I wish they'd learn. Until then, it's loathing myths about immigrants and the poor! Yay!

 

[Wild Bill]

We're supposed to give a shit about the language and traditions of those who migrate here?

Strange. My immigrant parents made it clear we're supposed to learn English and understand the traditions of the country we call home, not the third world shithole we willingly left.

 

[phgreek]

maybe I'm wrong, but last couple election cycles when things were still in doubt I coulda sworn I read on here that it is sad people are too stupid to vote for their own self-interest...but the concept some do is offensive??? Or the number??? Is it wrong??? Or who said it???

Lou might be in-artful in his latter years, but given his charitable heart and deeds...I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Given the trickle of actual immigrants, I think he means Illegal immigrants for starters...and yes the expectation is, as an immigrant you try and assimilate into your new country...

Be offended I guess. It wasn't perfect, and some of it was meant to be controversial I guess...

 

[pkt77242]

maybe I'm wrong, but last couple election cycles when things were still in doubt I coulda sworn I read on here that it is sad people are too stupid to vote for their own self-interest...but the concept some do is offensive??? Or the number??? Is it wrong??? Or who said it???

Lou might be in-artful in his latter years, but given his charitable heart and deeds...I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Given the trickle of actual immigrants, I think he means Illegal immigrants for starters...and yes the expectation is, as an immigrant you try and assimilate into your new country...

Be offended I guess. It wasn't perfect, and some of it was meant to be controversial I guess...

The problem is that most of it is "fear" based not reality based. When do immigrants ask you to become one of them? Or to celebrate their holidays? or to cheer on their soccer teams? Most of it seems to be fear-mongering about immigrants, and that to me is sad.

 

[Bluto]

We're supposed to give a shit about the language and traditions of those who migrate here?

Strange. My immigrant parents made it clear we're supposed to learn English and understand the traditions of the country we call home, not the third world shithole we willingly left.

The irony of this post is staggering...

 

[phgreek]

The problem is that most of it is "fear" based not reality based. When do immigrants ask you to become one of them? Or to celebrate their holidays? or to cheer on their soccer teams? Most of it seems to be fear-mongering about immigrants, and that to me is sad.

no argument...it was an attempt at humor that didn't work well I think, and it was overplaying a concern regarding borders, language, culture...and there are those who have a point to be made about their importance.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

This is just an amazing article. Confirms my worst fears about Trump. There is no deeper, private Trump.

The most disturbing thing to me is the inability to focus on anything for more than an hour at a time, even on a book about himself. There is just no way this guy has the frame of reference to be a competent political executive, when he doesn't have the patience to do his homework.

I try to be realistic about the fact that not everybody is a reader, and that's ok:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ddf2bc-4932-11e6-90a8-fb84201e0645_story.html
But this guy seems to have deeper problems with concentration. That seems like a problem for a president.

More disturbing, to me, was the confirmation that Trump is in this for Trump. The man has no moral compass and no desire to help anyone but himself. He's an unbelievably careless liar who tries to bully and manipulate people in order to get his way. If he doesn't, then it's a condescending "Have a nice life," for you as he hangs up the phone and throws a Trump tantrum. In no way, shape, or form should the POTUS act like Trump acts on a regular basis.

First you need to consider the source. The New Yorker and the Washington Post are both going to go out of their way to find something/anything to write that will be negative about Trump. I am not going to waste my time reading either one.

Second, what do you think the President does, sit in front of a computer doing research all day. They get a briefing that my guess last maybe an hour. All the president needs to focus a short period of time, get recommendations and make a decision. They don't need to sit there for days pondering an issue.

You should read the article. I completely understand dismissing a piece based on the writer, etc. But this is not one of those cases. As pointed out, this is an interview with the author of Trump's book. He spent 18 months shadowing Trump. During which time, he was so close to him that Trump's current wife was upset he spent more time with him than she did. This guy got a glimpse of the real Trump that almost no one else has and the things he had to say about him are appalling and confirm some of our biggest fears (if he were to become President). Donald Trump is a selfish, lying, desperate for attention, manipulating scumbag who will go to great lengths to get his way and help himself before helping anyone else.

 

[Irish#1]

We're supposed to give a shit about the language and traditions of those who migrate here?

Strange. My immigrant parents made it clear we're supposed to learn English and understand the traditions of the country we call home, not the third world shithole we willingly left.

The irony of this post is staggering...

While I don't agree with the bold, the second statement isn't bad. I've heard it from my own grandparents who were direct immigrants in the early 1900's and from other immigrants. They were very proud of their heritage but now that they were in America, they wanted to become Americans by learning and celebrating American customs which included learning the English language.