A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[ND NYC]

Some of this also gets a little confusing when trying to keep the show and books straight. In the books, the Night's King was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and there are all the stories about him taking an Other woman as a wife and so on. As far as I can recall, that hasn't been discussed in the show.

So yeah, who knows

maybe it was 13th lord commader who was tied to that tree, after it was discovered he had this illicit affair, and, while "awaiting sentencing/punishment" by the nights watch, along comes the CotF with other uses in mind for him.

or

maybe he has the affair AFTER the CotF do their thing...

 

[ACamp1900]

If she looked anything like they portray her in the book, do you blame him?

What's the worst thing about banging a white walker?

Sometimes yes means snow... Ay-O!






I'll shut the door behind me...

I mean, who hasn't had a throw down with a stone cold, icy, bitch....????

 

[gkIrish]

Hold up...if the Night's Watch existed before the Night's King, what the hell was the point of the wall?

 

[IrishLax]

maybe it was 13th lord commader who was tied to that tree, after it was discovered he had this illicit affair, and, while "awaiting sentencing/punishment" by the nights watch, along comes the CotF with other uses in mind for him.

or

maybe he has the affair AFTER the CotF do their thing...

Nah because Night's Watch was created AFTER the the first White Walkers.

It's pretty obvious, to me, that the book plot is:
1. CotF create White Walkers
2. Last Hero (time traveling Bran?) convinces CotF that this was a big mistake, and they help defeat them.
3. White Walkers create The Wall in their retreat after getting defeated. And/or it's possible that the CotF raised it after making enough headway against them.
4. Night's Watch created, at some point Night's King finds a female White Walker and through the whole sexy time thing gets turned into one himself. Follows the whole tactile conversion thing we've seen in the soul, and the established legend of the dude.
5. Night's King loses, his White Walker woman gets killed, and he's spent the next huge chunk of years regathering strength north of the wall (and watching the Night's Watch dwindle in power and the CotF die off).
6. After creating enough White Walkers from Craster's babies and getting enough wights/skeles it's time to make a move. Also possible (depending on what kind of greenseer abilities he has) that he knows the other moving pieces around the world and that plays some factor in him making a move now.

 

[ACamp1900]

Forgive me but I either forget or it wasn't fully explained, why did the CotF go live beyond the wall? Were the walkers ultimately seen as the lesser threat??

 

[IrishLax]

By the way, best possible ending of the series is Daenerys shows up with a bunch of dragons, the Night's King (working with Euron or maybe having killed him and taken dragonbinder) takes control of them and turns them into ice dragons.

Then they obliterate the fuck out of everyone. Jon ends up a dragon rider (but converted to a WW), but like finds a way to rebel against the control of the Night's King because #FireAndIce or some magic BS and supplants him as Chief Ice Dude. Book ends with Jon on the Iron Throne and Westeros 100% dead.

 

[woolybug25]

By the way, best possible ending of the series is Daenerys shows up with a bunch of dragons, the Night's King (working with Euron or maybe having killed him and taken dragonbinder) takes control of them and turns them into ice dragons.

Then they obliterate the fuck out of everyone. Jon ends up a dragon rider (but converted to a WW), but like finds a way to rebel against the control of the Night's King because #FireAndIce or some magic BS and supplants him as Chief Ice Dude. Book ends with Jon on the Iron Throne and Westeros 100% dead.

 

[ACamp1900]

By the way, best possible ending of the series is Daenerys shows up with a bunch of dragons, the Night's King (working with Euron or maybe having killed him and taken dragonbinder) takes control of them and turns them into ice dragons.

Then they obliterate the fuck out of everyone. Jon ends up a dragon rider (but converted to a WW), but like finds a way to rebel against the control of the Night's King because #FireAndIce or some magic BS and supplants him as Chief Ice Dude. Book ends with Jon on the Iron Throne and Westeros 100% dead.

And the Epilogue will all be one giant lecture on Global Warming..... with a closing by Al Gore.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

maybe it was 13th lord commader who was tied to that tree, after it was discovered he had this illicit affair, and, while "awaiting sentencing/punishment" by the nights watch, along comes the CotF with other uses in mind for him.

or

maybe he has the affair AFTER the CotF do their thing...

From ADwD:

"Some of the older books are falling to pieces. The pages crumble when I try and turn them. And the really old books ... either they have crumbled all away or they are buried somewhere that I haven’t looked yet or ... well, it could be that there are no such books and never were. The oldest histories we have were written after the Andals came to Westeros. The First Men only left us runes on rocks, so everything we think we know about the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age and the Long Night comes from accounts set down by septons thousands of years later. There are archmaesters at the Citadel who question all of it. Those old histories are full of kings who reigned for hundreds of years, and knights riding around a thousand years before there were knights. You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night’s King ... we say that you’re the nine-hundred-and-ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, but the oldest list I’ve found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during—"
"Long ago," Jon broke in.

So Old Nan's tale about the Night's King being the 13th Lord Commander of the NW might be inaccurate.

 

[GATTACA!]

Forgive me but I either forget or it wasn't fully explained, why did the CotF go live beyond the wall? Were the walkers ultimately seen as the lesser threat??

IIRC it's because they were being killed off by the first men.

 

[ND NYC]

Nah because Night's Watch was created AFTER the the first White Walkers.

It's pretty obvious, to me, that the book plot is:
1. CotF create White Walkers
2. Last Hero (time traveling Bran?) convinces CotF that this was a big mistake, and they help defeat them. when? in the past or present?
3. White Walkers create The Wall in their retreat after getting defeated. And/or it's possible that the CotF raised it after making enough headway against them. by "raised it" do you mean create it or "raze it" meaning knowck it down?4. Night's Watch created, at some point Night's King finds a female White Walker and through the whole sexy time thing gets turned into one himself. do we really think something this critical the show would depart from the books i.e. book saying nights king created one way and the show saying he was created another way? Follows the whole tactile conversion thing we've seen in the soul, and the established legend of the dude.
5. Night's King loses, (to time travelling Bran and CotF not current Bran and Cotf?)his White Walker woman gets killed, and he's spent the next huge chunk of years regathering strength north of the wall (and watching the Night's Watch dwindle in power and the CotF die off).
6. After creating enough White Walkers from Craster's babies and getting enough wights/skeles it's time to make a move. Also possible (depending on what kind of greenseer abilities he has) that he knows the other moving pieces around the world and that plays some factor in him making a move now.

..

 

[IrishLax]

And the Epilogue will all be one giant lecture on Global Warming..... with a closing by Al Gore.

I envision the chapter first told from Dany's point of view and she gets straight up eaten and/or frozen by Ice Drogon to close it out.

Then closing chapter of the Feezer Party at the Trident is from Sam's point of view and he watches Chief Ice Dude Jon Snow and his ice dragons and his indestructible black ice Valyrian steel armor just killing everyone in sight. Then Sam turns around and Ghost is there and then ghost eats him.

Last chapter of the book is Chief Ice Dude Jon's POV and he's on the Iron Throne and it's snowy in King's Landing.

Epilogue, as you said, is that climate change saves Westeros. Koch brothers start to rebuild.

 

[IrishLax]

From ADwD:



So Old Nan's tale about the Night's King being the 13th Lord Commander of the NW might be inaccurate.

If only there was some way to know for sure...

 

[ND NYC]

From ADwD:



So Old Nan's tale about the Night's King being the 13th Lord Commander of the NW might be inaccurate.

makes sense especially since Old Nan is really Melisandre, and she's been wrong before.

 

[greyhammer90]

makes sense especially since Old Nan is really Melisandre, and she's been wrong before.

 

[phillyirish]

So new theory (for show) that I'm hearing is that Arya will be Lady Stoneheart, exacting revenge on people who hurt her family.

Makes sense as it would be the only logical way to include LSH at this point in the series without just randomly introducing her with little build up.

 

[phork]

Personally I like the theory that Arya is the Waif, and the Waif is being sent to kill Arya. Meaning to kill Aryas personality and to become no one.

 

[gkIrish]

I watched the episode half asleep/half hungover so if I missed some things just let me know but:

1) How did the Hound not hear everyone being slaughtered?

2) How is Arya able to not only survive being slashed and stabbed multiple times, but is then able to walk? They could have accomplished what they wanted to accomplish without the repeated stabbing. Just have the waif slash her that one time and then Arya jumps into the river.

 

[wizards8507]

1) How did the Hound not hear everyone being slaughtered?

He was cutting wood hella loud I guess.

2) How is Arya able to not only survive being slashed and stabbed multiple times, but is then able to walk? They could have accomplished what they wanted to accomplish without the repeated stabbing. Just have the waif slash her that one time and then Arya jumps into the river.

I think what they're getting at is "Arya is definitely going to die unless she gets immediate aid / medical attention from somebody." The purpose was not just to show her attacked by the FM and escaping, this is going to be how they unite her with another character or group of characters.

 

[gkIrish]

He was cutting wood hella loud I guess.


I think what they're getting at is "Arya is definitely going to die unless she gets immediate aid / medical attention from somebody." The purpose was not just to show her attacked by the FM and escaping, this is going to be how they unite her with another character or group of characters.

Sam?

 

[IrishLax]

I watched the episode half asleep/half hungover so if I missed some things just let me know but:

1) How did the Hound not hear everyone being slaughtered?

I was literally just talking about this with someone. He hear's a scream, and by the time he gets there everyone is dead AND the bad guys are gone? Is he super far away? Didn't make much sense.

2) How is Arya able to not only survive being slashed and stabbed multiple times, but is then able to walk? They could have accomplished what they wanted to accomplish without the repeated stabbing. Just have the waif slash her that one time and then Arya jumps into the river.

Agreed 100%.

 

[IrishLion]

I got the feeling last night that Jaime's redemptive arc is still a thing, and that the show runners are simply trying to show us that the one wrench in Jaime becoming a decent dude is Cersei.

Either she is going to ultimately ruin his character redemption at a crucial moment, or he is going to complete his redemption by finally not turning into a raging idiot when she tries to give him another "but we love eachother and need only each other" pep-talk (a situation which may or may not include Jaime killing her in order to rid himself of her poisonous and eternally dumb disposition on things).

So while it looked like Jaime as a character was being ruined by the show, I actually think it's a calculated move to show us that he's trash when under Cersei's influence, but is actually trying to be a decent dude when he's not.

I kind of got this feeling when he was trying to come to terms with the Blackfish, and showed some frustration and a lack of patience when he realized that the Blackfish is willing to throw away so many lives for a hopeless endeavor. It was a good moment of acting for Coster-Waldau to show that Jaime is growing up in many respects, thought it was subtle. And it is entirely possible that I'm putting too much stock and hope into Jaime's redemptive arc.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think what they're getting at is "Arya is definitely going to die unless she gets immediate aid / medical attention from somebody." The purpose was not just to show her attacked by the FM and escaping, this is going to be how they unite her with another character or group of characters.

Sam?

Possible, since he's just fled Horn Hill and does spend some time in Braavos in the books. But I assumed she would turn to Lady Crane for help, join the troupe, and follow them back to Westeros.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Possible, since he's just fled Horn Hill and does spend some time in Braavos in the books. But I assumed she would turn to Lady Crane for help, join the troupe, and follow them back to Westeros.

I've had a few people offer this as a solution, but are we really to believe that the Faceless Men can't find her in the troupe?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I've had a few people offer this as a solution, but are we really to believe that the Faceless Men can't find her in the troupe?

Maybe the waif just assumes she's dead? It's hard to imagine Arya being targeted by Martin's Faceless Men and successfully avoiding them for long. The show version may conveniently be a little less omnipotent.

 

[IrishinTN]

I watched the episode half asleep/half hungover so if I missed some things just let me know but:

1) How did the Hound not hear everyone being slaughtered?

2) How is Arya able to not only survive being slashed and stabbed multiple times, but is then able to walk? They could have accomplished what they wanted to accomplish without the repeated stabbing. Just have the waif slash her that one time and then Arya jumps into the river.

He did hear them. Thats why he ran to them but he was too late. Guess he was chopping wood way far away.

2) maybe her leather armor stopped it from going as far? They are trying to show how tough she is? Its hollywood...

My question is...is The Waif in trouble now? A man told her not to make Arya suffer, but those wounds were given with the knowledge Arya would suffer for a while before she died.

 

[wizards8507]

Can anyone remind me where the Iron Bank left off in the show? That's a fantastic storyline in the books but I don't know that it has any value left with Stannis (presumed) dead.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Maybe the waif just assumes she's dead? It's hard to imagine Arya being targeted by Martin's Faceless Men and successfully avoiding them for long. The show version may conveniently be a little less omnipotent.

If it were Jaqen, I could see him leaving Arya alone after that assuming she would die, but not having the desire to see it to the end. However, I see no chance of the Waif allowing her to walk the streets bleeding all over the place. Her enmity for Arya is deep and passionate and most likely will lead to her death, and I find it unlikley that she would allow the job to go unfinished. The shot of Arya walking in the middle of the street bleeding has me feeling a bit worried.

 

[IrishLax]

Can anyone remind me where the Iron Bank left off in the show? That's a fantastic storyline in the books but I don't know that it has any value left with Stannis (presumed) dead.

Last we saw them I believe Mace Tyrell was talking to Tytos and we didn't see a resolution.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If it were Jaqen, I could see him leaving Arya alone after that assuming she would die, but not having the desire to see it to the end. However, I see no chance of the Waif allowing her to walk the streets bleeding all over the place. Her enmity for Arya is deep and passionate and most likely will lead to her death, and I find it unlikley that she would allow the job to go unfinished. The shot of Arya walking in the middle of the street bleeding has me feeling a bit worried.

In the preview for episode 8, we see her chasing Arya through the streets of Braavos, with Arya jumping off a balcony to escape. So it's safe to say that Arya is likely going to have to kill her before returning to Westeros.