Mike Sanford Jr. To WKU

[koonja]

What?

Someone who has BUILT THEIR OWN PROGRAM AS A HEAD COACH will know how to do that better than a guy like Sanford, who hasn't done anything like that yet.

Yes, that's your opinion, I acknowledge that. I don't acknowledge you're right. ND has special rules around everything. Sanford will know those better than some sleeze that built a quick turn around at the USF office of affairs, pulling whatever strings necessary to win and get kids in and keep them in.

 

[IrishLax]

I think it's really simple: when it comes for ND to make their next hire, you take the best available coach. If ND is coming off a natty with the #1 offense, that might be Sanford. Or it might not. We don't know.

You have to look at the whole picture, and the lack of HC experience would certainly be a negative. However, continuity (if ND is having success) could be a huge positive.

So you can't consider him in a vacuum... what if Nick Saban wanted to come up here? Obviously he wouldn't, but you'd also obviously take Saban if given the option. What if no A-List proven coaches are interested in the job? Well, then promotion of a guy like Sanford or Denbrock isn't the worst stop gap. It's unlikely to set the program back much, cost a lot of money, or have otherwise "high risk"... and it can work out very well.

 

[koonja]

I think it's really simple: when it comes for ND to make their next hire, you take the best available coach. If ND is coming off a natty with the #1 offense, that might be Sanford. Or it might not. We don't know.

You have to look at the whole picture, and the lack of HC experience would certainly be a negative. However, continuity (if ND is having success) could be a huge positive.

So you can't consider him in a vacuum... what if Nick Saban wanted to come up here? Obviously he wouldn't, but you'd also obviously take Saban if given the option. What if no A-List proven coaches are interested in the job? Well, then promotion of a guy like Sanford or Denbrock isn't the worst stop gap. It's unlikely to set the program back much, cost a lot of money, or have otherwise "high risk"... and it can work out very well.

Reps for being open minded.

 

[IrishLion]

Who fits in that category tho, that we know would take the job and be successful. Honest question, not being a dick.

I don't know right now. Think of over-achieving power-5 teams that aren't "premiere" jobs, or HC's at Group-of-5 schools that are exceeding expectations.

Yeah but building a program isn't a ground-up proposition. The Notre Dame football program is not in ruins. The program is built. I'd rather the next guy be someone who's going to continue the good things we have going for us than try to tear it down to build up his way. There's value in continuity.

Absolutely, which is why I said in the first place that it would also depend on who was offered. If it were between a seasoned ND coordinator and a HC that runs a completely different offense, I think it would depend on how much success ND has and what the returning players look like. If ND were open at this moment, I'd prefer a guy that runs a spread of some sort and is a HC, considering the success of the returning players in the current system and how crucial it is to a get a guy that is proven at steering the whole ship, but promoting one of the assistants that has been around for a few seasons wouldn't be a terrible second option.

But if it's four years down the road, and the offense hasn't lived up to expectations, then maybe a HC that runs a different system would be okay.

That's a good point, too. Anyone who'd be available is either unproved at anything approaching a blue-chip program, or is unemployed because he got fired.

For this cycle, sure. But why would ND be starting so far behind in the cycle? They wouldn't. They would have a reasonable pick of HC's.

Yes, that's your opinion, I acknowledge that. I don't acknowledge you're right. ND has special rules around everything. Sanford will know those better than some sleeze that built a quick turn around at the USF office of affairs, pulling whatever strings necessary to win and get kids in and keep them in.

Sanford will know those rules, yes. But is it easier to learn those rules, or to learn how to manage an entire program?

 

[BobbyMac]

After a lifetime being around college coaches I have to say Mike Denbrock looks/feels/sounds like a head coach to me.

I'm having lunch with an ND heavyweight today, I'm gonna run all this by him to see what he thinks.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I understand the Saban reference above, but we've if a guy like that was willing to come here, we would take him. We'd never give up that much control or money.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Sanford would of course take the job because it's a huge promotion. Would you not take a job offer to be CEO of a Fortune 500 company, complete with golden parachute? The coaching search should be easier this time around. BK has the cupboard pretty well stocked.

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While that is true, the headaches he has had to deal with over his entire tenure is something I would imagine many established coaches wouldn't want to deal with.

Perhaps this is a better way of looking at it........

In the last few years, the following "blue blood" programs have hired coaches:
USC - Promoted from within after Hiring Sark from UDub
Georgia - Promoted a DC from Bama with no HC experience
Texas - Charlie Strong from L'Ville
Michigan - Jimmy H, who spurned the NFL and is a certified nutjob after hiring Hoke from SDSU
Ohio State - Hired Urban from ESPN
Auburn - Hired Gus away from Arky State after one year of HC experience
Florida2 - Jim McElwain from CSU
Florida1 - Eskimo Will with no HC experience
Miami - Hired an unemployed Mark Richt
FSU - Jumbo hired from within, no HC experience

In all here, I see really only one school that was able to recruit a major HC from another high profile gig, which was scUM and frankly, Harbaugh shouldn't count since he likes to take his shirt around high school kids. Lesson here is that if ND wants to hire an experienced coach from a good P5 team, the likelihood of that appears to be low given recent trends. The more likely approach is to hire an up and comer from a group of 5 school. Arguments could be made that hiring the latest name is just as risky promoting from within without HC experience.

Honestly, the only option I see as realistic possibility of a major P5 coach leaving is Dan Mullen.

 

[Irish Insanity]

After a lifetime being around college coaches I have to say Mike Denbrock looks/feels/sounds like a head coach to me.

I'm having lunch with an ND heavyweight today, I'm gonna run all this by him to see what he thinks.

I think Denbrock would be a great choice, and promote Sanford to as high as you can and keep him in our system.

 

[gkIrish]

I've never said he should be the next HC here. But if he's all he's cracked up to be, considered by many the best assistant in football with 30 years ahead of him, QU guru and recruiting expert (not to mention extremely familiar with ND and knowledge of what it takes to be the HC after watching BK do it for 2 years right down the hall from him), how on earth can you be so narrow minded to say 'nope, can't do it, don't care how great he is, didn't have title as HC, will not consider'.

I have no opinion on the matter other than to say it's way too early to suggest he could be the next coach unless you're just spitballing. Your posts seem to suggest you think he is the best OC in America and would hire him over most HCs.

 

[koonja]

I have no opinion on the matter other than to say it's way too early to suggest he could be the next coach unless you're just spitballing. Your posts seem to suggest you think he is the best OC in America and would hire him over most HCs.

I've only said exactly what I said: If he lives up to the hype he needs to be considered (I would bet he does, but that's not proven yet). Not saying he's already earned it. But saying no regardless of how great he is here is luda.

 

[greyhammer90]

I've only said exactly what I said: If he lives up to the hype he needs to be considered (I would bet he does, but that's not proven yet). Not saying he's already earned it. But saying no regardless of how great he is here is luda.

And again that's a strawman argument that no one is saying. Also your position is so couched in situational justification that you might as well just say you like Sanford and hope things work out for him to be the head coach one day.

No sh*t, if he's the mastermind of a nation leading offense year after year and is considered one of the best recruiters in the nation and gets ND better than anyone and is groomed by BK for the position then he should get hired. Congrats, your f*cking obvious strategy/masturbatory exercise in dreamland would be the right call... In your dreamland.

 

[koonja]

And again that's a strawman argument that no one is saying. Also your position is so couched in situational justification that you might as well just say you like Sanford and hope things work out for him to be the head coach one day.

No sh*t, if he's the mastermind of a nation leading offense year after year and is considered one of the best recruiters in the nation and gets ND better than anyone and is groomed by BK for the position then he should get hired. Congrats, your f*cking obvious strategy/masturbatory exercise in dreamland would be the right call... In your dreamland.

Pipe down Jr. or Daddy will have to put you over my lap again.

And your hyperbolic rant is inaccurate. There are people on here who under no circumstances want a HC at ND who has not been a HC elsewhere.

 

[wizards8507]

And again that's a strawman argument that no one is saying. Also your position is so couched in situational justification that you might as well just say you like Sanford and hope things work out for him to be the head coach one day.

No sh*t, if he's the mastermind of a nation leading offense year after year and is considered one of the best recruiters in the nation and gets ND better than anyone and is groomed by BK for the position then he should get hired. Congrats, your f*cking obvious strategy/masturbatory exercise in dreamland would be the right call... In your dreamland.

I believe Koon's point, articulated in his Koonish way, is that Sanford should not be automatically disqualified due to the lack of head coaching experience. Other posters seem to believe that head coaching experience is an absolute must-have, the absence of which is a deal-breaker.

 

[IrishLion]

Pipe down Jr. or Daddy will have to put you over my lap again.

And your hyperbolic rant is inaccurate. There are people on here who under no circumstances want a HC at ND who has not been a HC elsewhere.

For the record, I am not one of those people. I would prefer a guy with HC experience, but the hiring situation at ND will change a bit with each passing year. Sanford could be the best option some day, as LAX said, but that is also dependent on a lot of factors.

But when it's "Current Mike Sanford" vs "Guy with HC Experience," I'll take Guy with HC Experience.

 

[greyhammer90]

Pipe down Jr. or Daddy will have to put you over my lap again.

Hey look, Koon actually gets challenged on a point and he makes a lame joke.


Color.
Me.
Shocked.

 

[koonja]

For the record, I am not one of those people. I would prefer a guy with HC experience, but the hiring situation at ND will change a bit with each passing year. Sanford could be the best option some day, as LAX said, but that is also dependent on a lot of factors.

But when it's "Current Mike Sanford" vs "Guy with HC Experience," I'll take Guy with HC Experience.

And I agree with all of that FYI.

 

[koonja]

Hey look, Koon actually gets challenged on a point and he makes a lame joke.


Color.
Me.
Shocked.

If I wanted a joke I'd follow you to the bathroom and watch you take a leak.

 

[greyhammer90]

If I wanted a joke I'd follow you to the bathroom and watch you take a leak.

Color.
Me.
Shocked.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Pipe down Jr. or Daddy will have to put you over my lap again.

And your hyperbolic rant is inaccurate. There are people on here who under no circumstances want a HC at ND who has not been a HC elsewhere.

Who? Let's call for names now so we know who you are "arguing against".

Who doesn't agree with Koon that Mike Sanford should get the job if:

1. he controls the offense for a couple more years and keeps us in the top 5 in all categories
2. He is a great recruiter and routinely brings elite talent to South Bend
3. He is given more responsibilities over that time and is eventually promoted to Assistant Head Coach (not to be confused with assistant to the head coach), in essence being groomed for a HC job.

Who then, doesn't believe Sanford should either be strongly considered against the field or outright earn the job? Any takers?

 

[koonja]

Who? Let's call for names now so we know who you are "arguing against".

Who doesn't agree with Koon that Mike Sanford should get the job if:

1. he controls the offense for a couple more years and keeps us in the top 5 in all categories
2. He is a great recruiter and routinely brings elite talent to South Bend
3. He is given more responsibilities over that time and is eventually promoted to Assistant Head Coach (not to be confused with assistant to the head coach), in essence being groomed for a HC job.

Who then, doesn't believe Sanford should either be strongly considered against the field or outright earn the job? Any takers?

I don't keep a list. And they exist, even if they don't feel like coming here to admit it now. They're probably in this thread if you read back.

 

[kmoose]

If I'm trying to fill a Finance Manager position for The Walt Disney Company, I'd much rather promote a Senior Financial Analyst from within Disney than to hire a Finance Manager from Verizon.

No you wouldn't. You're a coporate wonk by that stage in your career, and so you are going to bring an outside guy who will owe you, and only you, at Disney. The guy from within may already have other loyalties within the company.

 

[kmoose]

Bumping this for the inevitable 'told you so' in 5 years.

Bumping this because Koon will still be asking who Terry Hanratty is, in 5 years....

 

[Irish#1]

But nobody is going to be a proven commodity when it comes to being the head coach at Notre Dame, which is a unique beast in and of itself. I'd argue that being the offensive coordinator and assistant head coach at Notre Dame is better training to be the head coach at Notre Dame than being the head coach at Cincinnati or Grand Valley State.

Not sure I agree with that. One thing AC's don't do is work with administration on a regular basis and learn the politics. That a big part of the job.

Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to promoting an AC as long as Jack was still there. He could help them navigate the terrain.

 

[ND NYC]

whether we agree with koon or not on "the next ND coach"... ND better have a plan for when BK bolts for the NY Giants.

coughlin coaching like he wants to get fired, and Mara/Tisch & Co have been discussed as having their eye on Kelly for some time now.

 

[Irish Insanity]

whether we agree with koon or not on "the next ND coach"... ND better have a plan for when BK bolts for the NY Giants.

coughlin coaching like he wants to get fired, and Mara/Tisch & Co have been discussed as having their eye on Kelly for some time now.

On the drive to an NBA game the other day with a couple buddies (both U of M fans) and my oldest son. Talking CFB and I mention exactly that, BK leaving for the NYG. One buddy turns to me and says something along the lines of 'is BK even considered good enough for the NFL, has anyone even looked at him, does he even have enough of a resume'?

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In Texas at a conference. Look who's here!! A coincidence or nah? <a href="https://t.co/55J1n7NFPy">pic.twitter.com/55J1n7NFPy</a></p>— Still Strill (@stillstrill) <a href="https://twitter.com/stillstrill/status/674432859906576386">December 9, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

for those that don't know her, that's Javon's mom who happens to be a conference in Texas and "bumps" into Sanford....go get um Sanford!!!!!!

 

[zelezo vlk]

Mike Sanford is going to tax conferences now?

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[dublinirish]

Mike Sanford is going to tax conferences now?

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The guy is just passionate about Taxation

 

[NDdomer2]

Probably has interesting tax return coming up with new job and different states, selling/purchasing new home. He's got legit reasons.

 

[TheSunIsRising]

He read "Texas" conference (and figured if it is in Texas had to be football), not "Taxes" conference

Just an honest mistake...really