Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[wizards8507]

My point is that BK is not "singlehandly" responsible for that loss. No doubt he dicked some things up in that game. But he wasn't alone. The Chris Brown reverse is a great example. Bad call. I agree. But Brown fumbles it on 2nd down. We could have overcome a loss of a down. We couldn't overcome not putting any points on the board.

Let's not act like the players came to play that day and BK simply couldn't put a game plan together to beat NW.

"Gameplan" isn't the only thing you lay on the head coach. The players not coming to play is also on the head coach.

 

[gkIrish]

My point is that BK is not "singlehandly" responsible for that loss. No doubt he dicked some things up in that game. But he wasn't alone. The Chris Brown reverse is a great example. Bad call. I agree. But Brown fumbles it on 2nd down. We could have overcome a loss of a down. We couldn't overcome not putting any points on the board.

Let's not act like the players came to play that day and BK simply couldn't put a game plan together to beat NW.

1) If you make a bad decision which puts a player at risk of F'ing up, that's on the coach.

2) If the players didn't come out to play that's definitely on the coach. Your # 1 job as a coach is to make sure your kids come out to play.

 

[pkt77242]

1) If you make a bad decision which puts a player at risk of F'ing up, that's on the coach.

2) If the players didn't come out to play that's definitely on the coach. Your # 1 job as a coach is to make sure your kids come out to play.

Way to over generalize. When talking about objectivity, you really should take a look in the mirror.


Now you are blaming the coach every time a player fumbles the ball? Even if it wasn't a good call, a WR shouldn't fumble the ball when running with it. Please stop, you are showing beyond a doubt that you have lost all objectivity about this. Kelly called a shitty game against NW, and our players stunk it up badly as well. To blame it all on the coach shows that either you are trolling or have become too emotionally invested in your argument. Take a pick.

 

[IrishLion]

Chance of fumble; do not hand off.

If fumble on handoff, blame coach.

 

[Irish Insanity]

The head coach of a college football program is responsible for the conduct of his players. PERIOD.

Brian Kelly would tell you the same thing himself. I guarantee it.

.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

1) If you make a bad decision which puts a player at risk of F'ing up, that's on the coach.

2) If the players didn't come out to play that's definitely on the coach. Your # 1 job as a coach is to make sure your kids come out to play.

Da faq? So because you didn't like the play call itself, then it's the coaches fault the player fumbled. If it had been Cam lined up in the backfield and he had run off tackle and been the one to fumble...oh wait that did happened and per you it was coaches fault too. So when is it OK for a player to fumble and it be the player's fault and not the coach's?

 

[pkt77242]

Chance of fumble; do not hand off.

If fumble on handoff, blame coach.

Hey, that explains our lack of a run game the past few years.

 

[greyhammer90]

1) If you make a bad decision which puts a player at risk of F'ing up, that's on the coach.

2) If the players didn't come out to play that's definitely on the coach. Your # 1 job as a coach is to make sure your kids come out to play.

Once again, if we take that line of thought to its logical conclusion then everything, minus an act of God, is 100% on the coach.

If that's the case, why does this thread exist? There is no reason to have a discussion about BK's relative strengths/weaknesses. There's no argument or discussion to be had. In your mind a W or a L is always the head coach's fault with no potential blame on the players/assistant coaches/etc. ITS FINE THAT YOU THINK THAT. But again, if that's the case, what are we doing here? There's nothing to discuss. If he wins 10 games you like him, if he doesn't you don't. Awesome. Let's close the thread, because there's nothing else to be said.

 

[Irish Insanity]

"Gameplan" isn't the only thing you lay on the head coach. The players not coming to play is also on the head coach.

.

 

[gkIrish]

Way to over generalize. When talking about objectivity, you really should take a look in the mirror.


Now you are blaming the coach every time a player fumbles the ball? Even if it wasn't a good call, a WR shouldn't fumble the ball when running with it. Please stop, you are showing beyond a doubt that you have lost all objectivity about this. Kelly called a shitty game against NW, and our players stunk it up badly as well. To blame it all on the coach shows that either you are trolling or have become too emotionally invested in your argument. Take a pick.

I'm blaming him on that particular play because it was that poor of a decision.

Da faq? So because you didn't like the play call itself, then it's the coaches fault the player fumbled. If it had been Cam lined up in the backfield and he had run off tackle and been the one to fumble...oh wait that did happened and per you it was coaches fault too. So when is it OK for a player to fumble and it be the player's fault and not the coach's?

I would never have run the ball with Cam in the first place. I would have taken 3 knees and punted with 15 seconds left. That's the right coaching decision.

 

[pkt77242]

I'm not denying that BK had some rough luck last year. But IIRC he had half a season to prepare Nyles Morgan to run the defense in case Schmidt went down. Didn't happen. Still hasn't happened. Who's that on?

I would say BVG (especially since he is also our ILB coach). Kelly doesn't coach defense. Now if you want Kelly to hold BVG accountable that is a different story. Also it isn't just losing Schmidt, but then losing our starting DTs who could help protect the freshmen MLBs (Jones and Day both went down with injuries). It would make it hard for any MLB to succeed.

Is 5 kids + Golson + a couple other transfers not making grades/cheating to make grades not a sufficient amount to be a program-wide problem? IMO it is.

We are definitely approaching that point. I think that there is no doubt that ND tries to take some borderline (for ND) academic players. The problem is that we don't really know the success rate. For example if we have only taken 10 over the past few years and we have had 6-8 fail/transfer then it is one thing, and if we have taken 40 over the past 4 years and we have had 6-8 fail/transfer then it is completely different. The problem is we don't know the successes, we only hear about the failures (and some of the failures may not have been borderline academic players, who is to say that a player wasn't a good student who got a GF and then got lost in the loving and stopped studying).

 

[gkIrish]

Once again, if we take that line of thought to its logical conclusion then everything, minus an act of God, is 100% on the coach.

If that's the case, why does this thread exist? There is no reason to have a discussion about BK's relative strengths/weaknesses. There's no argument or discussion to be had. In your mind a W or a L is always the head coach's fault with no potential blame on the players/assistant coaches/etc. ITS FINE THAT YOU THINK THAT. But again, if that's the case, what are we doing here? There's nothing to discuss. If he wins 10 games you like him, if he doesn't you don't. Awesome. Let's close the thread, because there's nothing else to be said.

A) When bad things happen because of bad decisions by the head coach, it's on the head coach. You make an atrocious play call, player fumbles, it's your fault.

B) When good things happen because of good decisions by the head coach, it's a credit to the head coach. When you move a player into a new position and that player becomes a Heisman candidate, it's a credit to you.

C) When you make a good decision and bad things happen, it's not your fault. Running the ball on 1st and 10 from your own 20 at the beginning of the game is a good decision. All-American Linebacker strips the ball for 6. Not your fault.

D) When you make a bad decision and good things happen, you don't get credit. You throw a fade to your slot receiver on the goal line. Ball goes off defender's hands and is caught by another player on your team for a TD. You don't get credit.


The Northwestern game was a whole lot of A

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I'm blaming him on that particular play because it was that poor of a decision.



I would never have run the ball with Cam in the first place. I would have taken 3 knees and punted with 15 seconds left. That's the right coaching decision.

Until the gameplan is kick the ball deep and out of bounds and our punter gets off a short, low line punt that gets taken to the house then you are in here bitching and complaining that we let them have the ball back at all instead of picking up one 1st down on the ground with out superior line and icing the game.

 

[ACamp1900]

gk, and gh are both great posters that many of us enjoy... no need for insults and such, agree to disagree and move on??

 

[Wild Bill]

1) If you make a bad decision which puts a player at risk of F'ing up, that's on the coach.

2) If the players didn't come out to play that's definitely on the coach. Your # 1 job as a coach is to make sure your kids come out to play.

He put him at risk of losing a down and some yardage. Not the football.

It's on the coach to get them prepared. It's not on the coach to hold onto the football or make routine plays like long snapping, holding for a field goal or kicking a field goal.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I don't think you can judge a head coach based on the outcome of any one game. The northwestern game is a perfect example of why: football is not a tiny little carve out that's immune to the rules of probability and statistics. Sometimes insanely improbable things (Cam McDaniel fumble) happen. Play calls are a matter of balancing risk and reward: sometimes risky plays pay off, sometimes they fail spectacularly. A coach's impact on one single game is very subject to the vagaries of statistics.

To a lesser degree, the same can be said of a single season. Look at any sport where teams play more than 12 games. They all go through streaks. That doesn't mean the team or the coaching gets worse or better, it just means that the outcome of athletic contests are very rarely 100% certain so there's bound to be some fluctuation over small sample sizes. Football, again, is not some odd carve out that doesn't adhere to the rules of probability and the college football season is a very small sample size.

That being said, you can certainly evaluate a coach over 5 years, and you can use a single game (or sing play) as examples of broader tendencies. I think Kelly does have some weaknesses that can't just be dismissed at this point: consistent problems with his secondary, consistent problems with red zone offense, generally weak special teams (though that may change this year). I don't think those problems outweigh the good he's done for the program. He needs to continue to improve as a coach, but I'm excited about the direction this program is heading, and that's good enough for me.

 

[greyhammer90]

You're posting like a 10 year old so I'll spell it out for you.

A) When bad things happen because of bad decisions by the head coach, it's on the head coach. You make an atrocious play call, player fumbles, it's your fault.

B) When good things happen because of good decisions by the head coach, it's a credit to the head coach. When you move a player into a new position and that player becomes a Heisman candidate, it's a credit to you.

C) When you make a good decision and bad things happen, it's not your fault. Running the ball on 1st and 10 from your own 20 at the beginning of the game is a good decision. All-American Linebacker strips the ball for 6. Not your fault.

D) When you make a bad decision and good things happen, you don't get credit. You throw a fade to your slot receiver on the goal line. Ball goes off defender's hands and is caught by another player on your team for a TD. You don't get credit.


The Northwestern game was a whole lot of A

Wow. I tried to give you credit and attempted to analyze your argument in a semi-serious manner despite how silly it was on its face, because generally you're a good guy, but I'll just leave you to it if you're going to start name calling. Have fun in this cesspool of reasonable discussion you've created for yourself. I'm sure you'll eventually show everyone how right you are, just keep typing....

 

[gkIrish]

Wow. I tried to give you credit and attempted to analyze your argument in a semi-serious manner despite how silly it was on its face, because generally you're a good guy, but I'll just leave you to it if you're going to start name calling. Have fun in this cesspool of reasonable discussion you've created for yourself. I'm sure you'll eventually show everyone how right you are, just keep typing....

Sorry about the name calling. This thread stresses me out and I just lump everyone together. Seriously, my bad.

P.S. I've been called a lot worse in this thread.

 

[IrishLax]

GKIrish is straight war path in this thread lol...

 

[gkIrish]

GKIrish is straight war path in this thread lol...

I really wasn't on much of a war path until people started posting "I told you so" after we beat Georgia Tech. And this Northwestern thing really bugs me. It's literally the low point of BKs tenure.

You guys probably forget I had a 4 month ban because of Pete f'ing Carroll so I'm very anti-coach.

 

[PANDFAN]

Sorry about the name calling. This thread stresses me out and I just lump everyone together. Seriously, my bad.

 

[Irish#1]

Depends on the player. Troy Niklas was a failure. Tuitt probably not.

It sure as hell wasn't the slew of guys who contributed almost nothing pre-injury.

We were plugging in holes for guys that should never have started in the first place.

Brian Kelly's plan was surely not to start a walk-on at MLB 4 years into his tenure, was it?

Seriously...when he was laying out his plan in 2010, was "luck into a smart walk-on with average physical tools to run my entire defense" part of the plan???

How is that not the coach's fault? Either he recruited players that were incapable of meeting the academic standards or he failed to oversee them.



DID YOU WATCH THE NORTHWESTERN GAME??????? BK singlehandly lost that game. Please don't defend BK's playcalling. That's the weakest leg to stand on.

I never said a walk-on couldn't be a key contributor. But when the ENTIRE DEFENSE goes into full meltdown mode upon his injury, that's some scary shit....

If a coach recruits a bunch of thugs, and they all commit a crime, is it the coach's fault or not?

Likewise, if a coach recruits a bunch of kids that either (a) couldn't handle the academics or (b) don't abide by academic rules, and then they go ahead and cheat, how is that not the coach's fault in large part?

The head coach of a college football program is responsible for the conduct of his players. PERIOD.

Brian Kelly would tell you the same thing himself. I guarantee it.

Kelly answers for questionable calls vs. Northwestern - Chicago Tribune

I mean seriously if you guys don't want to blame Kelly for the Northwestern loss (pretty sure that was the Jet Sweep to Chris Brown game too) then I'm done. Complete lack of objectivity.

I'm not denying that BK had some rough luck last year. But IIRC he had half a season to prepare Nyles Morgan to run the defense in case Schmidt went down. Didn't happen. Still hasn't happened. Who's that on?



Is 5 kids + Golson + a couple other transfers not making grades/cheating to make grades not a sufficient amount to be a program-wide problem? IMO it is.

Defending coaching decisions in the Northwestern game is the most ridiculously homerish thing I've ever seen written on the site. The two point conversion decision was single-handedly one of the worst coaching decisions in the history of coaching. Pick any other game and defend BK. Not Northwestern.

1) If you make a bad decision which puts a player at risk of F'ing up, that's on the coach.

2) If the players didn't come out to play that's definitely on the coach. Your # 1 job as a coach is to make sure your kids come out to play.

I'm blaming him on that particular play because it was that poor of a decision.



I would never have run the ball with Cam in the first place. I would have taken 3 knees and punted with 15 seconds left. That's the right coaching decision.

A) When bad things happen because of bad decisions by the head coach, it's on the head coach. You make an atrocious play call, player fumbles, it's your fault.

B) When good things happen because of good decisions by the head coach, it's a credit to the head coach. When you move a player into a new position and that player becomes a Heisman candidate, it's a credit to you.

C) When you make a good decision and bad things happen, it's not your fault. Running the ball on 1st and 10 from your own 20 at the beginning of the game is a good decision. All-American Linebacker strips the ball for 6. Not your fault.

D) When you make a bad decision and good things happen, you don't get credit. You throw a fade to your slot receiver on the goal line. Ball goes off defender's hands and is caught by another player on your team for a TD. You don't get credit.


The Northwestern game was a whole lot of A

Sorry about the name calling. This thread stresses me out and I just lump everyone together. Seriously, my bad.

P.S. I've been called a lot worse in this thread.

I really wasn't on much of a war path until people started posting "I told you so" after we beat Georgia Tech. And this Northwestern thing really bugs me. It's literally the low point of BKs tenure.

You guys probably forget I had a 4 month ban because of Pete f'ing Carroll so I'm very anti-coach.

I'll give you credit. You sure are persistent.

 

[phillyirish]

We really need to find a healthy balance on not just BK's evaluation but on the ND program as a whole. Seriously Idk whats been going on latley but people have been nuts and extremely polarizing. Its not just negative anti- BK stuff either. On the other side you got people saying CJ Prosise is Bo Jackson. Mike Sanford, who forget the fact that he's only been here for 4 games but has ONLY A SINGLE FULL SEASON of coordinator duties ANYWHERE in his ENTIRE CAREER, should be the Headcoach in waiting at one of the most demanding stressful jobs in sports. Oh I think I saw a discussion brewing that Jaylon Smith runs a sub 4.4 making him the fastest linebacker in history.

Anyway people, were 4-0. Lets all just relax a bit, enjoy the show and come back here Saturday night to complain about BK's play calling by choosing to throw on 3rd and short forcing a punt even though we end up beating clemson 35-10

 

[wizards8507]

Lets all just relax a bit, enjoy the show and come back here Saturday night to complain about BK's play calling by choosing to throw on 3rd and short forcing a punt even though we end up beating clemson 35-10

I look forward to it.

Oh and it won't be a pass, it'll be a jet sweep or a sprint-counter. Some idiot lateral east-west run when we need one yard.

 

[woolybug25]

I look forward to it.

Oh and it won't be a pass, it'll be a jet sweep or a sprint-counter. Some idiot lateral east-west run when we need one yard.

Bubble screen... Bubble screen for sure...

 

[ACamp1900]

First play from scrimmage... if Clemson is loaded up... Play Action with CJ and a deep bomb to Willer for six... just like FSU 02.

 

[gkIrish]

Bubble screen... Bubble screen for sure...

From the right hash to the right sideline.

 

[tko]

The ego will be on full display Saturday evening. I'm thinking we run it maybe 17 times.

 

[Cackalacky]

I say fake the tunnel screen to Fuller and send Alize on a deep post. have him on their safety or LB. Clemson will be coming hard on the first play.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I really wasn't on much of a war path until people started posting "I told you so" after we beat Georgia Tech. And this Northwestern thing really bugs me. It's literally the low point of BKs tenure.

You guys probably forget I had a 4 month ban because of Pete f'ing Carroll so I'm very anti-coach.

I dunno man, that Tulsa loss probably gets me just as much as NW. Blowing a two score lead in the second half and not playing for the FG when there were 40+ seconds left, the team was averaging 5 yards per carry, you were at the Tulsa 19 and were playing with a freshman Tommy Rees. Just can't shake that one.