'15 NJ QB Brandon Wimbush (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[MartyIrish]

Just read that on my phone. That's definitely a two beer blog. Lax, do you have two more stories for us? I've got 4 more Sculpin IPA's if so.

Great read, thanks!

.

Finest beer ever made.

Have you tried the Grapefruit Sculpin??

 

[BobbyMac]

Yeah, I agree, but "purple face" really wasn't what we were talking about. I used it as an example, maybe poorly. Point is I could not care less about purple face, but I don't like the head coach of Notre Dame hanging up on a kid, who calls him to tell him directly, man to man, that he is considering other schools or taking visits. If a coach did that to your son would you be talking about thick skin?

I understand where you are coming from. I can say this, my son would NEVER decommit unless his mother or I were REALLY sick, the coach left / was fired, the school was put on some sort of serious probation or they accepted another verbal from a player at his position after they said they would not. So, in my case we would not be having that Kelly - Barnett conversation. Do I think it is proper for BK to hang up on somebody? No. I will add... I did not hear the conversation nor do I know what the Barnett's definition of getting hung up on is. If it came down to having to chose between the character of BK or BB and what really happened... I'll go with Coach Brian Kelly and give him the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't as bad as rumored.

I went through the recruiting grind back in the day. I had coaches on me to verbal left and right. I took my OV's, a few unofficials and then waited till I knew exactly what i wanted to do. At that point I announced over Christmas break my senior year. Our school was a madhouse for recruiting because my teammate was the #1 player in the country and he didn't announce till NSD. It came down to IU and ND. I was glad to be out of the circus to be honest. My parents had a phone line added in our house during my junior year that was for recruiting only. When I verballed, they cancelled the line.

That's how you handle a verbal from the players side.

I wish the NCAA would outlaw the practice and the terminology. You should be able to sign whenever you and the school decide so that other schools aren't bothering you and they aren't wasting HUGE amounts of money. It's called a commitment. Words have meanings.

.

 

[MartyIrish]

I'm actually fine with Wimbush.

I see the makeup of an ND all time great. He fits perfectly in Kelly's system. Strong arm, decisive, can move a little.....

And he's got size...2-3 inches on EG and coming in 10lbs heavier as a freshman. Took EG 4 yrs to hit 2 bills.


good things coming outta this one

 

[BeauBenken]

Just read that on my phone. That's definitely a two beer blog. Lax, do you have two more stories for us? I've got 4 more Sculpin IPA's if so.

Great read, thanks!

.

Drink faster if that's a two beer blog! That was a long read! haha

 

[BobbyMac]

Finest beer ever made.

Have you tried the Grapefruit Sculpin??

No. I don't like salad in my swill !

I just bought a Ballast Point sampler case with Sculpin and Big Eye IPA's, Wahoo White and Original Ale. Ballast Point is good... great when compared to most craft and mainstream stuff but I prefer Lagunitas, Russian River and Hangar 24 out here in California.

And NOTHING compares to 3 Floyd's Dark Lord in my book... but that's coming from a proud displaced Hoosier so what do I know.



*** And now back to Mr. Wimbush's thread... sorry for delicious diversion!

.

 

[TDHeysus]

It's the accepted story. Barnett called up Kelly to let him know he wanted to take visits/decommit and Kelly just hung up the phone because he's learned over the years now that these kinds of kids he's either 1) not keeping 2) won't work out at ND. He didn't see the point in wasting any more time on Blake.

Hearing this makes me like BK even more.

 

[IrishLax]

Yeah, I agree, but "purple face" really wasn't what we were talking about. I used it as an example, maybe poorly. Point is I could not care less about purple face, but I don't like the head coach of Notre Dame hanging up on a kid, who calls him to tell him directly, man to man, that he is considering other schools or taking visits. If a coach did that to your son would you be talking about thick skin?

Ideally, I tend to agree with you. I want our coach making as many good impressions as possible and as few bad ones as he can.

Would it have been better for Kelly to play nice with Barnett? Probably. But at the same time, I do understand Kelly cutting bait and moving on. He probably could've done it more tactfully, but I understand where his lack of patience came from. And ultimately, it's probably a better option than some of the alternatives that would've dragged out the process. The quicker he burns that bridge and doesn't look back the longer he has to find someone who wants to be here or start working on 2016 guys who were going to be on campus.

 

[BGIF]

Ideally, I tend to agree with you. I want our coach making as many good impressions as possible and as few bad ones as he can.

Would it have been better for Kelly to play nice with Barnett? Probably. But at the same time, I do understand Kelly cutting bait and moving on. He probably could've done it more tactfully, but I understand where his lack of patience came from. And ultimately, it's probably a better option than some of the alternatives that would've dragged out the process. The quicker he burns that bridge and doesn't look back the longer he has to find someone who wants to be here or start working on 2016 guys who were going to be on campus.

"The quicker" ... a hangup?

Sounds like a White House spin doctor ... reaching for a save.


One sentence to close the conversation properly wasn't going to miss out on another call.

 

[dad4aa]

"The quicker" ... a hangup?

Sounds like a White House spin doctor ... reaching for a save.


One sentence to close the conversation properly wasn't going to miss out on another call.

My only problem, as NDCrusader pointed out, is we do not know what "hang up" really means to Barnett. Could it be Barnett wanted to explain and BK cut him off and said no need we are pulling your offer and ended the conversation earlier than Barnett wanted? I just can't see a veteran coach with Kelly's reputation just hanging up on a recruit. Being short and cutting him off...yes. Actually hang up...no.

 

[Redbar]

Ideally, I tend to agree with you. I want our coach making as many good impressions as possible and as few bad ones as he can.

Would it have been better for Kelly to play nice with Barnett? Probably. But at the same time, I do understand Kelly cutting bait and moving on. He probably could've done it more tactfully, but I understand where his lack of patience came from. And ultimately, it's probably a better option than some of the alternatives that would've dragged out the process. The quicker he burns that bridge and doesn't look back the longer he has to find someone who wants to be here or start working on 2016 guys who were going to be on campus.

I totally understand the emotion and how someone would want to. I totally understand cutting ties and moving on and not dragging out the process. I am not even saying he should have been nice to Barnett. But just hanging up on a kid is so disrespectful, and when a kid does the mature thing and places that difficult phone call to tell you directly, I would think that they deserve at least that much. If that is in fact how it went down. Heck, tell him his scholarship is revoked, hang up the phone and send out the bat signal that his scholarship is revoked if you want to put an exclamation mark on it.

But believe me, I am not saying this because I love BB or I am disappointed with where we are. I am ecstatic to have Mr. Winbush and really hope we have an opportunity to see BB down the road.

 

[stlnd01]

A big long story about our future quarterback (who seems like a thoughtful and impressive young man), and all we do is debate whether Brian Kelly was nice enough to a recruit who was heading out the door.
The man can't win.

 

[ThePiombino]

Hearing this makes me like BK even more.

^^ Yup ^^

------------------------------

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

CBK: Are you solid?
BB: Yes.

BB: I think I want to take visits.
CBK: *click*


I'd be frustrated too. Kelly is human.

 

[BeauBenken]

When I was sober earlier tonight, I considered what Kelly to have done completely stupid, but now I think I understand a bit more clearly. Earlier I figured Kelly cut Blake off half sentence to hang up, but what likely happened is Kelly probably said what he needed to say after Barnett told him he was going to take other visits and then hung up on Blake. Kudos to coach for having the dignity not to snivel like a dog about cutting ties with Blake.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Are we sure we are talking about a literal hangup here, or is it possible that he figuratively hung up - as in, didn't have much to say (nice or otherwise) and quickly got off the phone? Not that it matters.

 

[ThePiombino]

Are we sure we are talking about a literal hangup here, or is it possible that he figuratively hung up - as in, didn't have much to say (nice or otherwise) and quickly got off the phone? Not that it matters.

My money would be on this being the likely scenario. Either way, I'm OK with it.

 

[Calabrese's People]

CBK: You're either committed or you're not. I need my quarterback to be a leader. I gave you my word, you're the only quarterback we're looking at for '15. Are you all in or out?
BB: ummm......dad's already organised the trip to Oregon...
CBK: Thats not 'All In' is it Blake?
BB: ...........
CBK: ............. Best of luck in your future, wherever that is [CLICK]
BB:

 

[Rhode Irish]

It's the accepted story. Barnett called up Kelly to let him know he wanted to take visits/decommit and Kelly just hung up the phone because he's learned over the years now that these kinds of kids he's either 1) not keeping 2) won't work out at ND. He didn't see the point in wasting any more time on Blake.

I get what your're saying here, but didn't Wimbush basically do the same thing with Franklin that Barnett did with Kelly? So it isn't the type of kid as much as it is that once a kid starts questioning whether he wants to be at ND the writing is on the wall and it is better to just cut the cord and move on.

 

[BGIF]

My only problem, as NDCrusader pointed out, is we do not know what "hang up" really means to Barnett. Could it be Barnett wanted to explain and BK cut him off and said no need we are pulling your offer and ended the conversation earlier than Barnett wanted? I just can't see a veteran coach with Kelly's reputation just hanging up on a recruit. Being short and cutting him off...yes. Actually hang up...no.

I agree, hence my post.

 

[dad4aa]

I agree, hence my post.

I see that now. Read through it too quickly.

 

[IrishLax]

"The quicker" ... a hangup?

Sounds like a White House spin doctor ... reaching for a save.


One sentence to close the conversation properly wasn't going to miss out on another call.

Not even really close to the point I was trying to make. In fact, I said I'd prefer for Kelly to be as courteous as possible, just that I understood if he'd be short with him. And I also don't think anyone knows if "hanging up" means clicking the off button mid-sentence on Blake, or saying something like "OK best of luck -- *click*"

When talking about whether it was smart to cut bait or not, I'm talking about the different options Kelly hypothetically had on the spectrum from "move on immediately and don't look back" to "grovel and go all-in to keep a #1 QB." I think you could make an argument for a lot of different approaches being viable -- those are the "alternatives that would've dragged out the process", not how many more minutes he spent on the phone when Blake called.

Are we sure we are talking about a literal hangup here, or is it possible that he figuratively hung up - as in, didn't have much to say (nice or otherwise) and quickly got off the phone? Not that it matters.

This. I don't think anyone knows, and I don't think Blake was mad about either if I'm remembering it correctly. I think he thought it was more "funny" in that he thought it'd be more difficult with Kelly trying to convince him to stay committed or talk him out of visits or get mad ... and instead it was just short and done.

 

[IrishLax]

I get what your're saying here, but didn't Wimbush basically do the same thing with Franklin that Barnett did with Kelly? So it isn't the type of kid as much as it is that once a kid starts questioning whether he wants to be at ND the writing is on the wall and it is better to just cut the cord and move on.

Oh yeah I don't think flipping your commitment is an indictment of character or anything else in and of itself. No way would I say that, it would make no sense.

What I'm saying is relative to Kelly/ND, not the kid. In '11/'12 Kelly fought hard for a lot of kids... and even won some of the battles in the end from wishy washy guys who backed out or considered backing out of their commitment to ND. Lynch, Tuitt, Darby, Tee, Greenberry... the bottom line is that they realized that their fail rate with these kids that they were having to fight tooth and nail for and didn't naturally want to be here or weren't great fits was very high. I think they've made a pretty conscious decision to steer clear of as many of these types as possible now, so when Blake called up to say "hey, remember how I was super solid and going to be on campus in a few days for Irish Invasion to basically de facto lead that camp? well, I think I want to take visits and back out of my commitment" ... that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Blake, but it does mean he's a kid waffling/wanting out and Kelly now I think wants to let these kids go and follow their heart elsewhere*.

*There are obvious exceptions to this and I all think it depends on the kid and kid's approach. For example, Jerry Tillery said when he wanted to commit super early at a position of 'luxury' at the time that he wanted to take visits all over the place. And the coaches were OK with that and were prepared to recruit a kid to the end that was going to consider all his options. I'm not sure there's a "right" or "wrong" approach but cutting bait probably decreases the chances of getting left with a hole in your class once the music stops... though it also probably decreases your probability of landing high players.

 

[koonja]

Kelly ain't no 'call me maybe' coach, lol.

This is a bizzare scenario because obviously a QB is the #1 most important position and a truly cannot miss. Obviously almost any other scenario, Kelly would keep contact and keep recruiting (Tuitt, Coney probably, etc).

Can't blame him and I'm a little proud he did this (would I change my mind a little if we didn't get Wimbush? Hard telling, lol).

 

[Irish#1]

When I was sober earlier tonight, I considered what Kelly to have done completely stupid, but now I think I understand a bit more clearly. Earlier I figured Kelly cut Blake off half sentence to hang up, but what likely happened is Kelly probably said what he needed to say after Barnett told him he was going to take other visits and then hung up on Blake. Kudos to coach for having the dignity not to snivel like a dog about cutting ties with Blake.

This..........No matter how pissed BK may have been, I can't believe he hung up on him. More than likely BK just cut the conversation short and BB never got to give his lengthy excuse, thus saying he hung up on him.

P.S. We got a heck of a kid in Wimbush.

 

[ND NYC]

I see it going like this:

"Hi Coach, it's Blake I'm calling to let you know I'm visiting Oregon/decommitting"
"you sure you want to that?"
"yes, well I uh have been talking with dad.."
cuts him off..."Well good luck to you then, Blake. take care."

click.

that's not a hang up IMO

 

[MartyIrish]

CBK: You're either committed or you're not. I need my quarterback to be a leader. I gave you my word, you're the only quarterback we're looking at for '15. Are you all in or out?
BB: ummm......dad's already organised the trip to Oregon...
CBK: Thats not 'All In' is it Blake?
BB: ...........
CBK: ............. Best of luck in your future, wherever that is [CLICK]
BB:

Yes. 1000 times.

Don't be afraid to say "no". Every great business man will tell you, they turn down as many "good" deals as they take.

 

[IrishLax]

Kelly ain't no 'call me maybe' coach, lol.

This is a bizzare scenario because obviously a QB is the #1 most important position and a truly cannot miss. Obviously almost any other scenario, Kelly would keep contact and keep recruiting (Tuitt, Coney probably, etc).

Can't blame him and I'm a little proud he did this (would I change my mind a little if we didn't get Wimbush? Hard telling, lol).

This x1000 LOL... if we didn't get Wimbush, hindsight would be "wtf why didn't you try to keep him!!!!!"

 

[stlnd01]

the bottom line is that they realized that their fail rate with these kids that they were having to fight tooth and nail for and didn't naturally want to be here or weren't great fits was very high. I think they've made a pretty conscious decision to steer clear of as many of these types as possible now,

Bingo. And that's fine.
Thinking back about, say, the recruiting class of 2012, it's amazing how little drama there has been this year. There was the Tillery business - though he personally was pretty consistent throughout - and McKinney, but there was no helping that one. But aside from Barnett has anyone bailed? Not even a lot of late flips, beyond Alize Jones.
This class may lack a little high-end star power (our highest rated guy on the 247 Composite is Wimbush at 45), but it's going to finish in the Top Ten nationally, meet nearly all our positional needs and be full of guys who seem to want to be here.
Not bad at all.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Bingo. And that's fine.
Thinking back about, say, the recruiting class of 2012, it's amazing how little drama there has been this year. There was the Tillery business - though he personally was pretty consistent throughout - and McKinney, but there was no helping that one. But aside from Barnett has anyone bailed? Not even a lot of late flips, beyond Alize Jones.
This class may lack a little high-end star power (our highest rated guy on the 247 Composite is Wimbush at 45), but it's going to finish in the Top Ten nationally, meet nearly all our positional needs and be full of guys who seem to want to be here.
Not bad at all.

I really, really hope you didn't just jinx us!

 

[IrishLax]

Pretty cool job by ESPN looking at the QB dominoes this year:

QB bond through recruiting process helps in final decision - ESPN

Quarterback commitment dominoes: Ricky Town's commitment to Alabama Crimson Tide set off chain

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Lax beat me to the punch. From the ESPN article:

Wimbush was right. A lot changed. When Barnett decommitted from Notre Dame and took Town's spot at Alabama, a spot in the Irish's class opened, which is where Wimbush then pledged.

Quarterback prospects tend to grow close and develop a bond given their similarities and the camps they attend. At events like Elite 11, the QBs form relationships and talk to each other about the schools they're considering and what each quarterback is seeing throughout the process.

In fact, when Barnett flipped to Alabama and Notre Dame came calling for Wimbush, the two had a conversation about what the Irish had to offer if Wimbush were to flip.

"I reached out to Blake the day before I committed to Notre Dame and asked him what he did like and what he didn't like about Notre Dame. I got his insight on Notre Dame, and he gave me some good stuff to think about," Wimbush said. "He said you would be earning one of the best degrees in the country, you're playing for one of the traditional programs, a historic program, and you'll make great relationships. It was probably more the negatives that I wanted to hear from Blake, though, but I felt the positives outweighed the negatives, and that's why I made my decision."

This reinforces why it's important: (1) to respect their decisions; and (2) to not Tweet vile things at them when they decommit. Sounds like Barnett did us a solid here. I doubt Kelly hung up on him.