Rumored Violations

Status
Not open for further replies.

wizards8507

Well-known member
Messages
20,660
Reaction score
2,661
I'm so over this. One can simply no longer defend the university on how this is being handled. If this is all part of the established process THEN FUCKING CHANGE IT AND GET WITH THE TIMES!!!
That's fine, but you don't change it in the middle of an investigation into high-profile varsity athletes. There are probably some changes to be made (having a sitting honesty committee during the summer session so these things can be handled before students return in the fall, for example), but you can't make those changes mid-incident. That's the kind of thing that makes the NCAA go "hmm..."
 

wizards8507

Well-known member
Messages
20,660
Reaction score
2,661
Obviously I'm assuming a LOT here but don't the earlier "leaks" suggest some students were already involved in the process earlier but the recent silence suggest that whatever is taking place is being handled by higher-ups?
The "higher-ups" involvement comes in when we're talking about the impact this whole thing has to do with the football program. Suspensions, eligibility, scholarships, vacating wins, NCAA reporting, etc. all come from those guys. The "verdict" and "sentencing" will absolutely come from the committee of faculty and students.
 

woolybug25

#1 Vineyard Vines Fan
Messages
17,677
Reaction score
3,018
That's fine, but you don't change it in the middle of an investigation into high-profile varsity athletes. There are probably some changes to be made (having a sitting honesty committee during the summer session so these things can be handled before students return in the fall, for example), but you can't make those changes mid-incident. That's the kind of thing that makes the NCAA go "hmm..."

But is it? Look at the NCAA right now. Pretty much letting UNC off the hook for institutional cheating, letting PSU off for employing a pederast that molested children on their campus for 17 years, lack of investigations into Ole Miss, etc, etc, etc.

Damn near every team in college football is cheating and getting away with it. Why are we still acting like the NCAA gives a f*ck? They don't, and they never will. If we changed the procedure to fit the situation, the NCAA wouldn't have given two $hits and the world would have forgotten about it in a couple weeks.

Only Notre Dame would lock the jail cell on themselves as the other prisoners take over the prison.

I was supposed to unsubscribe from this thread...
 
Last edited:

Pops Freshenmeyer

Well-known member
Messages
5,112
Reaction score
2,457
The "higher-ups" involvement comes in when we're talking about the impact this whole thing has to do with the football program. Suspensions, eligibility, scholarships, vacating wins, NCAA reporting, etc. all come from those guys. The "verdict" and "sentencing" will absolutely come from the committee of faculty and students.

Right, so IF IF IF some are cleared to resume activities it would seem unfair that they need to wait for ND to be ready for a full, comprehensive decision on all aspects pertaining to former players and students or vacating wins in order to give the 5 individuals their hearings.
 

GATTACA!

It's about to get gross
Messages
15,104
Reaction score
12,943
That's fine, but you don't change it in the middle of an investigation into high-profile varsity athletes. There are probably some changes to be made (having a sitting honesty committee during the summer session so these things can be handled before students return in the fall, for example), but you can't make those changes mid-incident. That's the kind of thing that makes the NCAA go "hmm..."

As long as you take all the nessisary steps I don't understand why the NCAA would care how long it takes you. At most schools you would have never even heard about this "scandal" I don't see the NCAA having an issue with us hurrying up to punish our own players.
 
Last edited:

wizards8507

Well-known member
Messages
20,660
Reaction score
2,661
Right, so IF IF IF some are cleared to resume activities it would seem unfair that they need to wait for ND to be ready for a full, comprehensive decision on all aspects pertaining to former players and students or vacating wins in order to give the 5 individuals their hearings.
I would hope you're right. In fact, if they're cleared by the committee then I don't think there's even a decision to be made about that other stuff. If they're cleared, it means they didn't do anything wrong, so there wouldn't be anything to decide regarding vacating wins or anything.
 

ACamp1900

Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
Messages
48,946
Reaction score
11,225
Other students are allegedly involved yes??? That may be the holdup right there.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

Well-known member
Messages
5,112
Reaction score
2,457
I would hope you're right. In fact, if they're cleared by the committee then I don't think there's even a decision to be made about that other stuff. If they're cleared, it means they didn't do anything wrong, so there wouldn't be anything to decide regarding vacating wins or anything.

Well, I was thinking there are more people involved than the 5 current players (just a rumor, obviously) and decisions need to be made regarding those who aren't current students.
 

Chi_IRISH

New member
Messages
235
Reaction score
16
But is it? Look at the NCAA right now. Pretty much letting UNC off the hook for institutional cheating, letting PSU off for employing a pederast that molested children on their campus for 17 years, lack of investigations into Ole Miss, etc, etc, etc.

Damn near every team in college football is cheating and getting away with it. Why are we still acting like the NCAA gives a f*ck? They don't, and they never will. If we changed the procedure to fit the situation, the NCAA wouldn't have given two $hits and the world would have forgotten about it in a couple weeks.

Only Notre Dame would lock the jail cell on themselves as the other prisoners take over the prison.

I was supposed to unsubscribe from this thread...

Not for nothing, I love the fact that the NCAA lifted the ban on Penn State the day the Ray Rice news broke. Smart and cowardly on their behave. The Penn State stuff is just lost in the shuffle of the news yesterday.
 

Woneone

New member
Messages
1,445
Reaction score
125
That's fine, but you don't change it in the middle of an investigation into high-profile varsity athletes. There are probably some changes to be made (having a sitting honesty committee during the summer session so these things can be handled before students return in the fall, for example), but you can't make those changes mid-incident. That's the kind of thing that makes the NCAA go "hmm..."

That's fine, but I guess my confusion is, does anyone know what the actual process is?

In my line of work, a "Process" is a set of tasks, in a scheduled order, that takes place to satisfy a job or requirement. Is that what this is? Is there an actual established order? Even in this thread, from people on the "know", it's sounds like there is a bunch of assumptions. When people meet, who needs to see, if they're ineligible, what then? Where does it go? When?

That's not a process, that sounds like making crap up as we go, when people feel like doing it.

And I've seen people talk about the Army suspensions and expulsions. Yea, in the 50's.

It's 2014. The ability to acquire and analyze data is a bit faster than it was back then. Meetings no longer have to be face to face. Hell, I just met with a group in India last week via teleconference, on short notice, because they thought a server MIGHT be having issues.

I'm sure a bit of this is just being a butt-hurt fan, but from the outside, as someone who's followed this for the last few weeks, this seems like a cluster**** of pure evil.
 

sfk324

Well-known member
Messages
1,710
Reaction score
2,270
I don't think Kelly even knows a timetable, he's going off the info mike Brey have him on Grant.

I agree with this, and I have to say I think relying on Grant's experience is misplaced for 2 reasons:

1. Based on when Grant was suspended, he would have gone before the committee towards the end of the semester. The Honor Committees don't expedite based on who you are, but they have (to my anecdotal knowledge) expedited based on when the issue is brought to them. This is an Academic Calendar-based "when" not an athletic competition based when.

2. Grant was an individual. There was no larger ring to be investigated/heard, as is the case here. There are 4 (now 5) individuals on the team alone, plus indications of others outside the team. While likely not unprecedented, it probably does make the committee hearings longer and more complicated.

I would also point to Grant's comments about the process itself as more useful than timeline comparisons. When asked if he thought it was fair, he gave an unequivocal yes. Maybe he would have felt different if it took a while, but it seems he felt he was given a fair shake by the process, and that seems more important than racing through to get a result.
 
Last edited:

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
2. Grant was an individual. There was no larger ring to be investigated/heard, as is the case here. There are 4 (now 5) individuals on the team alone, plus indications of others outside the team. While likely not unprecedented, it probably does make the committee hearings longer and more complicated.

Not so sure about that. Has ND ever hired an outside contractor to conduct a thorough multi-week investigation of academic fraud before? I've never heard of such a thing happening anywhere else, and I can't believe that's SOP for ND.
 
Last edited:

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
Messages
11,433
Reaction score
1,006
Does the Admin work overtime at Notre Dame? Maybe they should have skipped the game like the suspended players had to in order to get done with all of this.

Nope, they clock in promptly at 11 am, take lunch from Noon until 2 pm, and leave for the day at 3 pm.
 

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
Messages
11,433
Reaction score
1,006
tumblr_inline_mollnrdIEy1qz4rgp.gif
 

sfk324

Well-known member
Messages
1,710
Reaction score
2,270
Not so sure about that. Has ND ever hired an outside contractor to conduct a thorough multi-week investigation of academic fraud before? I've never heard of such a thing happening anywhere else before, and I can't believe that's SOP for ND.

That's the investigation though, I was just talking about the committee hearings. I have no knowledge, anecdotal or otherwise, of past academic fraud investigations. I am only familiar with the honesty committee side of things.
 
K

koonja

Guest
If we get Colinsworth, Daniels, KVR, and Ishaq back, we can beat FSU from what I've seen.

That's fucking crazy.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
That's the investigation though, I was just talking about the committee hearings. I have no knowledge, anecdotal or otherwise, of past academic fraud investigations. I am only familiar with the honesty committee side of things.

The circumstances surrounding the investigation seem extraordinary to me, so it's possible that the Honor Committee is dealing with an unprecedented situation here.
 

GATTACA!

It's about to get gross
Messages
15,104
Reaction score
12,943
If we get Colinsworth, Daniels, KVR, and Ishaq back, we can beat FSU from what I've seen.

That's fucking crazy.

Could you please pass the kool-aid?

I want to believe.

Edit: However, is anyone else no longer worried about Stanford?
 
K

koonja

Guest
Could you please pass the kool-aid?

I want to believe.

Edit: However, is anyone else no longer worried about Stanford?

Definitely worried about Stanford, but FSU was always the 'we can't win, but let's not get embarassed' game, but I think with those 3-4 back, we could win because Golson is as good as any QB I've seen this year IMO. I'll take him right now over Winston.

So let's get them back.

No koolaid to pass. I drank it all.
 

wizards8507

Well-known member
Messages
20,660
Reaction score
2,661
However, is anyone else no longer worried about Stanford?

Definitely worried about Stanford, but FSU was always the 'we can't win, but let's not get embarassed' game, but I think with those 3-4 back, we could win...
Seriously both of those teams have been remarkably unimpressive. A lot depends on just how bad Michigan is, but I'd take us head to head against either team based on what we've seen so far.

EDIT: With or without the five.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
Could you please pass the kool-aid?

I want to believe.

Edit: However, is anyone else no longer worried about Stanford?

Less worried, but still very wary. Stanford beat themselves. Rest assured they aren't gonna do that against us.
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,581
Reaction score
20,031
Other students are allegedly involved yes??? That may be the holdup right there.

Beat me to it. I think this is what everyone keeps forgetting. Regular students are also involved. This is an academic issue not football. They are going through lord knows how many students, but aren't going to release anything until a decision on each and everyone is completed. Then we'll know. My guess is Daniels knows something positive and he's just waiting for them to wade through all of the other students info.
 
Last edited:

ND NYC

New member
Messages
3,571
Reaction score
209
true or false: the fact finding and gathering of any and all evidence for the investigation was completed couple weeks ago.

if true then no more evidence is forthcoming and any new potential targets/other students should have their own process OUTSIDE THE 5 and this delay in a verdict has to be matter of honesty committee "getting hearing on the calendar" to rule on the gathered evidence

if false, this thread could hit 20,000 posts by the time this is resolved
 

wizards8507

Well-known member
Messages
20,660
Reaction score
2,661
true or false: the fact finding and gathering of any and all evidence for the investigation was completed couple weeks ago.
True.

if true then no more evidence is forthcoming
Probably true.

and any new potential targets/other students should have their own process OUTSIDE THE 5
I don't think anyone has any idea.

and this delay in a verdict has to be matter of honesty committee "getting hearing on the calendar" to rule on the gathered evidence
Two step process: form the honesty committee (most kids don't have time to cheat in the first two weeks of school, so they normally don't need one in place IMMEDIATELY), then what you said. People testify and answer questions at the hearing too. It's not just "look at evidence and decide." You can bring witnesses and crap like that. If you're looking guilty, you probably have the opportunity to show remorse for a more lenient punishment.

if false, this thread could hit 20,000 posts by the time this is resolved
Definitely true.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top