Notre Dame Switching to UnderArmour

wizards8507

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Do you think Ryan Harris would have been comfortable wearing a uniform with a cross on it?
I honestly don't understand why that would be a problem but playing for ND in and of itself wouldn't be. I think any kid who would have a problem with a cross on his uniform probably wouldn't be enrolling at Notre Dame in the first place.
 

Kaneyoufeelit

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I honestly don't understand why that would be a problem but playing for ND in and of itself wouldn't be. I think any kid who would have a problem with a cross on his uniform probably wouldn't be enrolling at Notre Dame in the first place.

Because playing football has nothing to do with religion. Going to class has nothing to do with religion. Wearing a cross on the other hand

You can go to ND without being a Catholic for a million reasons. Assuming I don't have some deep prejudice and hatred for all things Catholic going to ND won't cause me any moral or conscious problems. But asking me to wear a symbol of Christianity on national television seems categorically different.
 
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gkIrish

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I honestly don't understand why that would be a problem but playing for ND in and of itself wouldn't be. I think any kid who would have a problem with a cross on his uniform probably wouldn't be enrolling at Notre Dame in the first place.

I don't understand why you don't understand why that would be uncomfortable. Your experience at Notre Dame may have been super spiritual and all but that's NOT the experience others had. There are a lot of people that loved ND for a lot of reasons that don't include its Catholic identity. There are a lot of fans that root for ND for reasons that don't include its Catholic identity. You're applying your view of Notre Dame to everyone else.
 

wizards8507

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I don't understand why you don't understand why that would be uncomfortable. Your experience at Notre Dame may have been super spiritual and all but that's NOT the experience others had. There are a lot of people that loved ND for a lot of reasons that don't include its Catholic identity. There are a lot of fans that root for ND for reasons that don't include its Catholic identity. You're applying your view of Notre Dame to everyone else.
I'm not saying that anyone who goes there must be Catholic or that the Catholic identity must play a part in your experience. I'm saying if you decide to go there FOR WHATEVER REASON, you're at least OKAY with the Catholic identity.
 

Kaneyoufeelit

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I'm not saying that anyone who goes there must be Catholic or that the Catholic identity must play a part in your experience. I'm saying if you decide to go there FOR WHATEVER REASON, you're at least OKAY with the Catholic identity.

Being okay with Catholic identity and wearing an expression of faith inconsistent with your own are different.
 

gkIrish

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I'm not saying that anyone who goes there must be Catholic or that the Catholic identity must play a part in your experience. I'm saying if you decide to go there FOR WHATEVER REASON, you're at least OKAY with the Catholic identity.

Being okay with the Catholic identity doesn't equal wanting to be a visual advertisement for it.
 

ND NYC

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no need for a cross on the football uniforms.

like said above-we have a 500 ft statue of jesus christ watching all the games.

how much more "visualization" of the faith do you guys need?!
 

wizards8507

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Being okay with Catholic identity and wearing an expression of faith inconsistent with your own are different.

Being okay with the Catholic identity doesn't equal wanting to be a visual advertisement for it.
They already are "wearing an expression of faith" and being "a visual advertisement" for it. The gold helmets, white and blue shirts, and words "Notre Dame" are all those things. Every one of them. We're not gold and blue by happy coincidence.
 

ryno 24

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The school is probably the biggest advertisement of Catholicism is the country. On top of the administration building (Golden Dome) is Mary. Across from the Stadium is Touchdown Jesus. A prominent landmark at the school is the Grotto. The basilica on campus is a landmark not only in the area but also in the country. Whenever a player visits they are explicitly shown both the Grotto and the Basilica. Before every game (I believe it is Friday now) the team goes to mass together. They also say the hail mary together. Also after every game there are masses in every dorm that anyone can go to.

What the admissions people state is that a student or student athlete does not need to be Catholic or religious at all but that Notre Dame tries to foster a spiritual atmosphere on Campus.

Notre Dame does foster a Catholic Mission and advertises it but that does not mean that it forces it down people's throat.
 

gkIrish

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They already are "wearing an expression of faith" and being "a visual advertisement" for it. The gold helmets, white and blue shirts, and words "Notre Dame" are all those things. Every one of them. We're not gold and blue by happy coincidence.

99% of people don't know that. I didn't. Are you equating the cross with the colors blue and gold?
 

IrishLion

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They already are "wearing an expression of faith" and being "a visual advertisement" for it. The gold helmets, white and blue shirts, and words "Notre Dame" are all those things. Every one of them. We're not gold and blue by happy coincidence.

Blue and gold =/= cross
 

NDohio

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Nope. They see you as a Catholic as fundamentally flawed because of your interpretation of the Bible and the role of the Church. They would most likely be VERY opposed to it because ND would be claiming something that is most rightfully theirs based on their deepest held beliefs.

Interesting take. Just to be clear, I attend a non-denominational church that is doctrinally very close to Baptist. I don't agree with this at all from my experience. That being said, your experiences are obviously way different and you get the southern culture more than this yankee transplant.
 

ND NYC

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cant believe you guys are complaining that we dont have a cross/crucifix on our uniforms.

really?? maybe we should play in sandals, drink wine instead of gatorade and wear a crown of thorns in lieu of helmets?

"Y'all doth protest too much"
 
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Kaneyoufeelit

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They already are "wearing an expression of faith" and being "a visual advertisement" for it. The gold helmets, white and blue shirts, and words "Notre Dame" are all those things. Every one of them. We're not gold and blue by happy coincidence.

If you don't see a difference between going to a school with a Catholic name and mission and wearing a cross, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. To me, there is a huge difference. One is a profession of faith, the other is a business decision.
 

NDohio

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no need for a cross on the football uniforms.

like said above-we have a 500 ft statue of jesus christ watching all the games.

how much more "visualization" of the faith do you guys need?!


I never stated that I want there to be a cross on the uniform. The subject started when there was talk of one on the SS uniform for this year(although it will be on the undershirt - not visible to the public). My statement is that if a private, Catholic university has the desire to put a small cross on their uniform, visible to the public, that should not be an issue.

I am surprised so many are so against that, freedom of religion and all.
 
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koonja

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To me, it's cost-benefit. What's the benefit? There's a number of costs, IMO. One that's not been mentioned (or I missed it), is what happens if one of our player does something stupid, gets in a fight on the field, or whatever.

We instantly become the 'well apparently wearing a cross on your uniform doesn't mean anything' type of jokes.
 

wizards8507

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cant believe you guys are complaining that we dont have a cross/crucifix on our uniforms.
Nope, not saying that at all. I'm arguing against the belief that we specifically shouldn't have a cross because it's too overt or something like that. I'm not saying "do want." I'm just arguing against "do not want."

99% of people don't know that. I didn't. Are you equating the cross with the colors blue and gold?
I'm equating a cross with the reason why we wear blue and gold, not the colors themselves.

If you don't see a difference between going to a school with a Catholic name and mission and wearing a cross, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. To me, there is a huge difference. One is a profession of faith, the other is a business decision.
Fair enough.
 

ryno 24

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I agree with wiz I am not promoting a cross on the uniform (though it could look really cool) but stating that it would not be a negative.

In fact if we want to get technical Maryland has a cross on their uniform. Their state was originally formed by Catholics.

BURN THOSE BIGGOTS AT THE STAKE!
 

Kaneyoufeelit

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I agree with wiz I am not promoting a cross on the uniform (though it could look really cool) but stating that it would not be a negative.

In fact if we want to get technical Maryland has a cross on their uniform. Their state was originally formed by Catholics.

BURN THOSE BIGGOTS AT THE STAKE!

Kinda. It's the coat of arms of the Crossland family. It's represents the maternal side of George Calvert's, first Lord Baltimore, family, not Catholicism.

Source: 4th grade
 
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ryno 24

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Exactly but the state was founded because Lord Baltimore was trying to escape religious persecution in order to practice his Catholic faith. He brought many Catholics with him. I believe Maryland (which is named after Mary) is still a very Catholic area but obviously not religiously affiliated.
 

Kaneyoufeelit

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Exactly but the state was founded because Lord Baltimore was trying to escape religious persecution in order to practice his Catholic faith. He brought many Catholics with him. I believe Maryland (which is named after Mary) is still a very Catholic area but obviously not religiously affiliated.

All true, though I would hedge the very Catholic area. I believe MD has more Catholics than any other specific denomination but I recall seeing that the state is more Protestant than Catholic now, and certainly more nonreligious than Catholic.
 

irishog77

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Not arguing for or against a cross on the uniform here.

But Wizards, I think you missed the point of Cack. Most areas of the south have looked down upon Catholicism. That's finally (thankfully) starting to change a little in urban areas, but it is still very much par for the course in rural areas of the south.

In a nutshell, Catholics have been discriminated against in business and by municipalities. Catholics are viewed as different culturally. Catholics are often viewed as inferior, obsessed with Mary, and destined for hell. I've had girls refuse to date me and a girl friend break up with me specifically because of my Catholic faith. The mantra of "Catholics Need Not Apply" has been, and remains, words lived by for employment, friendship, and membership.

I don't care one way or another if ND ever puts crosses on any of their athletic uniforms, but there's certainly more of a nuance to it than you care to acknowledge in the area of the country that provides the best football players in the nation. It matters. It definitely matters.
 

dshans

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I... The subject started when there was talk of one on the SS uniform for this year ...

Just to add a twisted and somewhat sardonic complexion to this whole discussion, I find the reference to "SS" in regard to a cross displayed on a uniform ironic.

As a frame of reference, the SS, which needs no introduction, is an abbreviation of Schutzstaffel (German: “Protective Echelon”). The Iron Cross was a vaunted military decoration worn on the chest by German soldiers (The SS included) prior to, during and after WWII.

Powerful and emotional symbols can be interpreted differently and abused.
 

Irish#1

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BusterBluth is athiest, intelligent, and he loves Notre Dame, so we don't even have to travel off of this board to prove your claim false.

Does he love ND or just ND football or athletics? I would venture to say there are a lot of posters on this board that are only interested in ND football and/or the other athletic teams.
 
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