Why does ND always choke in the Tournament?

gkautz10

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Why are you guys surprised/upset? It happens every year! And at some point it does become Brey's fault. He does not get the team ready to play in the tournament bottom line. I would agree this is not Brey's fault if ND actually won in the tournament on occasion but they never do. They do have enough athletes to win because they win against athletes in the Big East all season long. At some point we need to stop making excuses for Brey and demand results. Just like ND does for the football program.
 

NDJimmy

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Since Digger's Final-4 team, ND has never had the talent to compete with the nation's elite oneyearofeducationthenofftotheNBA schools. Brey has consistenly taken mediocre talent and coached them to compete at a higher level.
Because the talent doesn't go very far down the bench, a small number of players plays their guts out all season long, and by the end of February they are worn down.
I'm not surprised when this happens every year, it just seems logical.
When Abro went down I said this team won't win 15 games. I am not disappointed in the finish, I am happy about what I saw them accomplish.
Have you looked at the roster they will have next year? With those freshmen coming in, this team will be deeper than they have been in a long time. I can hardly wait.

League tournaments are almost as stupid as the bowl system. Teams play 3 months to determine a league champion. Then that 3 months becomes meaningless for the sake of the money made in a 3 day tournament.
 

IrishLax

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I respectfully disagree. The only ranked team they beat was Vandy, admittedly a good team. UGA is ok. Cincy is pretty good, I'd say ND is better. Purdue is ok. Players were suspended for a max of 4 games after the brawl. They then lost to Gonzaga, La Salle, Dayton, SLU, Memphis, Temple, Umass, SLU, and St. Bonaventure.

Yeah... Xavier was incredibly beatable. We in no way shape or form lost because they were good and outplayed us. We lost because we're not very good ourselves (seriously.... B-/C+ overall talent level at best compared to the other tourney teams in the field) and then had a lack of composure coupled with an inexplicable officiating "decision."
 

CarrollVermin

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Why are you guys surprised/upset? It happens every year! And at some point it does become Brey's fault. He does not get the team ready to play in the tournament bottom line. I would agree this is not Brey's fault if ND actually won in the tournament on occasion but they never do. They do have enough athletes to win because they win against athletes in the Big East all season long. At some point we need to stop making excuses for Brey and demand results. Just like ND does for the football program.

While I agree with you, the rules are different for every sport other than football at Notre Dame. You are talking about a school that continued to keep John MacLeod for years. As long as Brey continues to be competitive, graduate his players, and avoid any issues with the NCAA, he is not going anywhere.

That being said, this year was a surprise to me. Given the injuries we sustained, I did not see this team as a tournament team. As the season went on, however, those expectations changed. Last night was disappointing, build a 10 point lead, lose your composure, and then commit a silly violation to lose the game.

All that being said...the expectations for next season must change.

And...with all that being said...Notre Dame Baseball is off to a good start...its time to start to back those boys.
 

woolybug25

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Figures that Irishmoore made this thread.

Yeah, blame one of the most successful coaches in ND basketball history on failure in the tourney. Who exactly do you think is lining up to take over exactly? Do you want someone like Calipari?

By the way... Calipari has never won a championship despite having two guys go in the first 12 picks of last years draft or having Derrick Rose. Cheating (every team he has left, he left them as sanctions arrive) along the way.

Of course you would act like a guy that loses his best recruit (Eric Katenda) and Tim Abromaitis in the same year and still making the tourney is a failure.
 
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HereComeTheIrish

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Figures that Irishmoore made this thread.

Yeah, blame one of the most successful coaches in ND basketball history on failure in the tourney. Who exactly do you think is lining up to take over exactly? Do you want someone like Calipari?

By the way... Calipari has never won a championship despite having two guys go in the first 12 picks of last years draft or having Derrick Rose. Cheating (every team he has left, he left them as sanctions arrive) along the way.

Of course you would act like a guy that loses his best recruit (Eric Katenda) and Tim Abromaitis in the same year and still making the tourney is a failure.

You must not speak so loud... You might wake NDOM from his "slumber" only to tell you that tomorrow is going to suck, and the next day and the next day..... Keep him in his Cheetos induced state so the grown ups can talk.
 
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IrishMoore1

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Figures that Irishmoore made this thread.

Yeah, blame one of the most successful coaches in ND basketball history on failure in the tourney. Who exactly do you think is lining up to take over exactly? Do you want someone like Calipari?

By the way... Calipari has never won a championship despite having two guys go in the first 12 picks of last years draft or having Derrick Rose. Cheating (every team he has left, he left them as sanctions arrive) along the way.

Of course you would act like a guy that loses his best recruit (Eric Katenda) and Tim Abromaitis in the same year and still making the tourney is a failure.

Woolybug! Don't hate. Appreciate. I'm just keeping it real here. I love Irish ball and all Irish sports just as much as you do. That's why I hold high expectations for my beloved alma mater and am willing to challenge our coaches to show that same love. You can't deny the cold hard facts of the last 12 years. If our guys are beating some of the top teams in the country, there's no excuse to be one and done every year.
 

kmoose

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Is that what we should expect out of Notre Dame basketball? I don't know about you, but teams play in the tournament to win it, not just show up.

I'm not saying you should expect that to be all, but wtf do you have to complain about? ND basketball is NOT ND football! It's not a storied team, one of the greatest programs in NCAA history. I think some of you should seriously get a grip on your expectations of the University's sports programs. Some of the folks on here, it's obvious that it's just an ego thing for them. They don't get to gloat, and Lord over their buddies, how successful ND is. Get over yourselves.
 

jimmymac

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As posted by Louis Nix! Enjoy
419117_2965167691631_1334806717_32689911_1182455219_n.jpg


Edit: Its tough to see, but you can see a better pic on his facebook. Its a picture of the game with 8 seconds left with Xavier at the line, and guess whos a good two or three steps inside the arch before the ball touched the rim?
 
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HereComeTheIrish

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As posted by Louis Nix! Enjoy
419117_2965167691631_1334806717_32689911_1182455219_n.jpg


Edit: Its tough to see, but you can see a better pic on his facebook. Its a picture of the game with 8 seconds left with Xavier at the line, and guess whos a good two or three steps inside the arch before the ball touched the rim?

hahaha... Go figure. Good catch.
 

IrishMoore1

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Well fellas, here we are again. Will Brey finally take the team past the 2nd round for the first time since 2003?
 

Irishnuke

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We've all been down this road before. Gut feeling...they're going to lose to ISU.
 

anarin

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Iowa State will be a tough game, unfortunately they face Ohio State if they win.
 

RDU Irish

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Iowa State rains three pointers and can play with about anyone on a good night. They would be a Cinderella pick for me regardless of who they play.

Brey has better talent than coming in than he has ever had. I am feel like our guards have not improved that much but our four headed monster down low is becoming quite the asset.

Meat in the paint can't be discounted and in years past, they couldn't play tough because we couldn't afford Cooley/Harrangody/Garrity/etc to get into foul trouble. These are quality supporting cast members not tourney dominiating stars.

I just don't feel it this year. Brey manages the season incredibly, just can't string together more than two wins in ANY tourney (zero trips to the finals in Big East Tourney).
 

Old Man Mike

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Losing to Iowa State would hardly be an upset let alone a "choke". Saying so is ridiculous and indicative that not enough NCAA BBall has been watched. Several commentators have wondered if ISU was going to get a much higher seed than this. AND, if they get by ISU, it's Aaron Craft and OSU likely waiting --- a REAL tough "out".

The easiest way to go deep into the NCAA is to have two things which Notre Dame almost never has any of: elite penetrators and intimidating shot-blockers. When the NCAA tournament arrives and everyone gets down to the nut-cutting of all-game-long top effort, the offenses don't simply cruise along like magic clocks [unless you're a clock-making genius like Pete Carill] and you need elite playmakers to score or set up scores. ND is almost always very dependent upon 3-point shooting --- risky --- one off night and you're not even in the game.

Also, the NCAA Tourney lets the high-flying manimals out of their cages and they're making life miserable for defenses UNLESS there is a major shotblocker lurking, or a team so clever and tough that they take charges all over the place. ND can try the take-the-charges with our level of athleticism, but the elite skysweeper is almost never on the roster.

Once the rosters are formed, none of these tournament losses are on Brey. The guys play their butts off every time. If anyone wants to criticize Brey, they need to focus on getting the right type of athlete in the first place. THEN, one needs to weigh the difficulty of getting that sort of player vs NDs academic demands and entry standards to decide just how much one wants to excoriate him.

Can Brey outrecruit, say, Duke for those players? That's pretty much what we're asking him to do.
 

RDU Irish

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So Brey is 6-8 in 12 years at the NCAAs. 7 vs 10 seeds are about as much of a toss-up as 8 vs 9 seeds, only difference is you "win" a chance to play a two seed if you win the coin flip. Expecting our boys to go better than 1-1 in this tourney is asking a lot, especially given the tough draw we have both rounds.

Oklahoma, Cincinatti and Colorado are the other 10 seeds. I would rather play any of them by a large margin than ISU.

If nothing else, I feel ND gets match-up hosed by the committee more than not.

HOWEVER, you would think with our history of relying on three pointers we would find a hot hand to carry us a few rounds every once in a while.
 

WakeUpEchoes

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When you rely on the 3-ball you can't go deep in the tourney. Years prior that's been the standard of the team. I think it's changing a bit.

Florida, IMO, will lose to Minnesota b/c of this.
 

RDU Irish

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Can't go deep on the three ball but you can upset people early and run to the sweet 16 before anyone knows what hit them.
 

IrishSpartan

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Easy answer notre dame has always been a shooting team, especially from the arc. We have never been a long athletic team that dominates the game today. We need to alter the type of player we recruit to change our fate in march.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Easy answer notre dame has always been a shooting team, especially from the arc. We have never been a long athletic team that dominates the game today. We need to alter the type of player we recruit to change our fate in march.

This team doesn't rely on the three near as much as past teams.
Brey has been recruiting more balanced players. My call is next year is gonna be a breakout year.
 

chicago51

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I am going to raise this thought. Is it possible that ND overachieves in the Big East as opposed to underachieving in the NCAA tournament?
 

AgentJ

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As someone that has had ND season tix for almost ten years laugh, I can do nothing but laugh at you fools who want to fire Brey. He's an incredible coach. INCREDIBLE. He does more with less than any other coach in college basketball.... and now he's landing better recruits. Next year will be huge for ND. A Senior backcourt - probably will be top 5 in the country - of Atkins and Grant.... who by the way are 2nd round NBA talents.... with a maturing Biedscheid and Auguste. I believe Sherm and Knight both have another year if Brey wants them back too. Connaughton showed huge flashes of what he can do during the BE tournament. The only loss is Cooley, and though it is a big one, add in DJax and it's nullified. This team is going to be top 10-15 all year next year.

Jackson
Atkins
Grant
Connaughton
Katenda?
Biedschied
Knight
Sherman
Auguste

All in the rotation? It will be the deepest and most gifted ND team that I have ever seen.
 

IrishSpartan

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As someone that has had ND season tix for almost ten years laugh, I can do nothing but laugh at you fools who want to fire Brey. He's an incredible coach. INCREDIBLE. He does more with less than any other coach in college basketball.... and now he's landing better recruits. Next year will be huge for ND. A Senior backcourt - probably will be top 5 in the country - of Atkins and Grant.... who by the way are 2nd round NBA talents.... with a maturing Biedscheid and Auguste. I believe Sherm and Knight both have another year if Brey wants them back too. Connaughton showed huge flashes of what he can do during the BE tournament. The only loss is Cooley, and though it is a big one, add in DJax and it's nullified. This team is going to be top 10-15 all year next year.

Jackson
Atkins
Grant
Connaughton
Katenda?
Biedschied
Knight
Sherman
Auguste

All in the rotation? It will be the deepest and most gifted ND team that I have ever seen.

15-25 at best, lets be real. A team doesn't go from a 21-30 to a 10-15 in one year after losing it's best player and leader. And DJax is a huge recruit for us but he wont be a major impact until his second year. And im pretty sure Katenda is blind in one eye.
 
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Pachuco

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As someone that has had ND season tix for almost ten years laugh, I can do nothing but laugh at you fools who want to fire Brey. He's an incredible coach. INCREDIBLE. He does more with less than any other coach in college basketball.... and now he's landing better recruits. Next year will be huge for ND. A Senior backcourt - probably will be top 5 in the country - of Atkins and Grant.... who by the way are 2nd round NBA talents.... with a maturing Biedscheid and Auguste. I believe Sherm and Knight both have another year if Brey wants them back too. Connaughton showed huge flashes of what he can do during the BE tournament. The only loss is Cooley, and though it is a big one, add in DJax and it's nullified. This team is going to be top 10-15 all year next year.

All in the rotation? It will be the deepest and most gifted ND team that I have ever seen.

Nice post. Maybe a little too exuberant on the draft predictions, but overall I think you are on point regarding the soon-to-manifest increase of talent. There are a few legit critiques that can be levied at Brey's coaching at times, but when it comes down to it, ND is fortunate to have his leadership.
 
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