A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)
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RyCo1983
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NoJusticeNoPeace
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That episode was horrible. They made the sept scene a full-on rape, the Thenns are weird and over-the-top, Littlefinger's accent continues to be ridiculous, and the Champion of Meereen scene was anti-climactic and lame. Tommen is also way too old. I did like that they mentioned some old kings and the Golden Company though.
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I was upset with the scene in the sept, but other than that I thought it was okay. It was a nice set-up episode to move the action along, which I don't mind too much because much of Martin's writing is the same way. Some plodding chapters (admittedly not as many in book 3 as in 4/5) and then some action to pull you back through.
I thought the scene with Tywin and Oberyn was awesome, as was the scene where Tywin was teaching Tommen. It was one of those times where I started to feel like I didn't mind Tywin all that much, but only because the scenes where he goes back-and-forth with other characters always seem to deliver.
I actually liked the scene with Daario and the Champion of Mereen... I'm glad they kept in the "I piss in your general direction" thing because I thought it was hilarious (both times). It also fit with Daario's suave operating procedures, though I would have preferred to see Strong Belwas
I usually kind of eye-roll at Dany's speeches and "I'm-a-badass" stuff, but I actually really enjoyed her speech directed at the slaves of Mereen. It was done well enough that I was upset when the episode ended right after it. Moar carnage.
I thought the scene with Tywin and Oberyn was awesome, as was the scene where Tywin was teaching Tommen. It was one of those times where I started to feel like I didn't mind Tywin all that much, but only because the scenes where he goes back-and-forth with other characters always seem to deliver.
I actually liked the scene with Daario and the Champion of Mereen... I'm glad they kept in the "I piss in your general direction" thing because I thought it was hilarious (both times). It also fit with Daario's suave operating procedures, though I would have preferred to see Strong Belwas
I usually kind of eye-roll at Dany's speeches and "I'm-a-badass" stuff, but I actually really enjoyed her speech directed at the slaves of Mereen. It was done well enough that I was upset when the episode ended right after it. Moar carnage.
wizards8507
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I haven't watched yet but they turned the Sept scene into a rape!? That's a dramatic departure from the books, and right in the middle of Jamie's redemption arc. This goes back to what I was saying earlier about the show being FAR too black-and-white about how "evil" all Lannisters are.
wizards8507
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They definitely had sex (with dead-Joffrey right there), but it wasn't rape. I believe it was the first time they see each other after Jamie returns from his journey with Brienne.
Emcee77
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Game of Thrones Is Just Getting Bloodier—and Better - Spencer Kornhaber, Christopher Orr, and Amy Sullivan - The Atlantic
These bloggers made an interesting point based on last night's episode: Benioff and Weiss appear to have decided to solve the problem of the storyline of this series expanding to the point that it is becoming unfilmable by chopping some storylines and minor characters out, but going into greater depth with the ones that remain. I guess we will see.
These bloggers made an interesting point based on last night's episode: Benioff and Weiss appear to have decided to solve the problem of the storyline of this series expanding to the point that it is becoming unfilmable by chopping some storylines and minor characters out, but going into greater depth with the ones that remain. I guess we will see.
K
koonja
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Starting the first book tonight (haven't seen, or obviously read anything). Excited to see what you jabronis are always speculating about. Really hope I get into it because the show looks like something I would really enjoy.
wizards8507
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Careful. This thread is VERY spoiler-ific, especially about some of the "oh shit!" moments.
Enjoy the read!
K
koonja
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Thanks, I've skipped over every comment, but was like an antsy kid who's always been denied admission to a ride because he was too short, but I'm finally tall enough so wanted to make some noise.
I've heard great things about the books and heard one friend say it was pretty slow and dry. I think they'll br great, though.
wizards8507
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Once you've read the books, be sure to be as obnoxious about it as possible to your friends who only watch the show. This is our sacred duty.
K
koonja
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Will do.
Not to derail this thread but side note, I finished the first season of 'the following' with Kevin Baconator recently and that's a really good show on Netflix if anyone's looking for something to watch.
phork
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The second season has sucked.
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koonja
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I heard the villain (Lilly?) is better (hard to imagine), but that the season overall is not as good.
wizards8507
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Just watched the rape scene. That wasn't rape. It was appropriately done based on the book I thought. Cersei was kissing back and moaning "it's not right."
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NDWorld247
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I'd agree with that assessment. The 2nd season has been okay, not as good as the first IMO.
I haven't read the books but read this thread because I don't mind spoilers and forget half the shit I read anyway. I was wondering about the rape scene as I've seen some people say it wasn't an accurate depiction of how it went down in the books. It seemed like a "quasi-rape", with the last few seconds leaning more towards "rape". Either way, no truer words than "It's not right" have been spoken by Cersei imo. House Lannister is full of a bunch of sick fucks.
Kaneyoufeelit
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GRRM on the sept scene Not A Blog - Author, Author!
wizards8507
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Very nice George, but please get writing things that matter, for winter is coming and the night is dark and full of terrors.
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Emcee77
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Interesting, that makes a bit more sense now .
I was thinking too that it may be that the show producers felt like the characters had to do something to signal for the viewers that a break between Cersei and Jamie was occurring. In the books, we are in both characters' heads, so nothing actually has to happen for us to understand that distance is growing between them ... we get that from their internal monologues. But in a TV show, we aren't in the characters heads and can only draw inferences from their actions. The TV producers may have felt like they had to dramatize the fact that Jamie was beginning to see Cersei as a "hateful woman" by showing him performing a hateful act toward her.
Also, as GRRM alluded to in his blog post, the timeline in the show is all screwed up and the events are happening in a different order than they did in the book, or sometimes not at all, and the way the characters interact may have to change to suit the new order.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>George R.R. Martin, the genius behind <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GameOfThrones&src=hash">#GameOfThrones</a>, goes deep on the future of the series in our new interview: <a href="http://t.co/Sa0PhTSxUj">http://t.co/Sa0PhTSxUj</a></p>— Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) <a href="https://twitter.com/RollingStone/statuses/458991969487060992">April 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
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An amazing interview. It really sheds light on Martin's ideals on "morals" and how things are rarely as simple as "black and white."
I always thought Jaime's character arc is (so far) the best character development I've ever read, and the Rolling Stone interview helps point it out. We meet him as the Kingslayer, the man willing to kill a child to hide his own shame... but he is not just a corrupt, incestuous asshole. That first big scene with Bran falling from the window wasn't just Jaime protecting his own ass; there is a deeper level that I barely considered in that he's also protecting his sister/lover, and their children as well.
Martin points out that people are quick to say they would never do that, but then he asks them to see it from Jaime's perspective: Would they kill an innocent child to protect their whole family? No matter how morally straight-edge you think you are, you're going to hesitate and at least think about that proposition for a second.
And that's why Jaime's story is so enthralling to me. On the surface, it appears that Jaime starts off as a "bad guy" and is trying to transition to "good guy," following that "redemption" arc that Martin talks about in the interview... but the reality is that he's always in a grey area, and the extremes on the "good" and "bad" scale are both highlighted at various times and in situations that are impossible to predict.
It's a microcosm of the whole series, where there are very few true examples of things that are strictly "good" and "evil." It's not just about transitioning and seeking redemption (unless you're Sandor Clegane). It's more a question of "can we be redeemed?"
Nerdgasm.
I always thought Jaime's character arc is (so far) the best character development I've ever read, and the Rolling Stone interview helps point it out. We meet him as the Kingslayer, the man willing to kill a child to hide his own shame... but he is not just a corrupt, incestuous asshole. That first big scene with Bran falling from the window wasn't just Jaime protecting his own ass; there is a deeper level that I barely considered in that he's also protecting his sister/lover, and their children as well.
Martin points out that people are quick to say they would never do that, but then he asks them to see it from Jaime's perspective: Would they kill an innocent child to protect their whole family? No matter how morally straight-edge you think you are, you're going to hesitate and at least think about that proposition for a second.
And that's why Jaime's story is so enthralling to me. On the surface, it appears that Jaime starts off as a "bad guy" and is trying to transition to "good guy," following that "redemption" arc that Martin talks about in the interview... but the reality is that he's always in a grey area, and the extremes on the "good" and "bad" scale are both highlighted at various times and in situations that are impossible to predict.
It's a microcosm of the whole series, where there are very few true examples of things that are strictly "good" and "evil." It's not just about transitioning and seeking redemption (unless you're Sandor Clegane). It's more a question of "can we be redeemed?"
Nerdgasm.
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Emcee77
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Haha, "nerdgasm."
That was a fascinating interview. GRRM is a thoughtful guy, no question about that.
And I agree, Jamie was never really as bad as he appears to be early in the series. Another example: early in the series Jamie is the hated Kingslayer who stabbed the Mad King in the back in an act of cowardly opportunism; later we come to understand that Jamie's Kingslaying saved all of King's Landing from going up in a conflagration of wildfire.
That was always the most interesting element of Jamie's character to me ... he has been viewed with contempt by an entire continent for more than a decade, when the very act that inspired all that contempt was an act of heroism.
That was a fascinating interview. GRRM is a thoughtful guy, no question about that.
And I agree, Jamie was never really as bad as he appears to be early in the series. Another example: early in the series Jamie is the hated Kingslayer who stabbed the Mad King in the back in an act of cowardly opportunism; later we come to understand that Jamie's Kingslaying saved all of King's Landing from going up in a conflagration of wildfire.
That was always the most interesting element of Jamie's character to me ... he has been viewed with contempt by an entire continent for more than a decade, when the very act that inspired all that contempt was an act of heroism.
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Depending on your view of his parentage, that might be forgivable (at least in Westeros).
I'm not sure I buy the arguments about Jamie as a "gray" character. Throwing Bran from the tower is the only evil act we see him carry out. Virtually everything else he does is Lawful Good. He's one of the least morally ambiguous characters in the story.
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Did I read the beginning right that there is no chance of Winds of Winter coming out soon?
johnnycando
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So if your sister looked like cersei, you'd bang her too?
woolybug25
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You're Jaime Lannister... Marry one, bang one and kill one.... GO!
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ACamp1900
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