'14 CO ATH Nathan Starks (UCLA Verbal)

[calvegas04]

lets take him

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

I think it all depends on how the 'expulsion' or whatever is phrased. If Bishop Gorman makes it amicable and downplays the severity/reasons there's always a chance. It not like he was arrested (right?) so it could just be a catch all 'violation of school policy' officially even if the reason is drugs.

If someone is willing to spill the beans (whatever the truth is...) to admissions and it is something really bad then it's simply a no go. They're going to give a pass to someone with a serious red flag even if it's Aaron Rodgers.

If you mean 'not going to give a pass' then I completely agree. The staff doesn't need to be take a high ground over what the school does. If he's good enough for the school then by all means let him on the team.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

My thinking would be along the same lines. If the staff is still in communication with him then I'm hoping that either what he did isn't as bad as some of the early rumours or there is a good explanation to it.

I'd love to have him on the team from a purely selfish point of view, but as you say Notre Dame would also probably be the best place for him personally.

Doug Gottlieb and Randy Moss endorse this message.

 

[Rack Em]

Doug Gottlieb and Randy Moss endorse this message.

So does Norm from Cheers.

 

[ThePiombino]

I would take a commitment from him. This is the land of second chances and we all have facked up. He would surround himself with wonderful people and a great family feel at Notre Dame. I am sure he knows he messed up and won't do it again. I would welcome Nathan and I know a lot of you won't agree with me but we were all kids once. Still doesn't change the fact he messed up and I understand that.

I agree with you, assuming things are not worse than expected.

Does everybody forget the amount of proving that Michael Floyd had to do to get reinstated?

Valid point, but rehabbing one of your own is different than accepting "damaged goods".

If admissions is willing to give him a second chance then that would be good enough for me.

Therein lies the problem. BK and staff may be all-in on this kid still for all we know. However, the real trick would be convincing admissions to be so as well.

 

[sparkyND]

Does this kid have the grades?

 

[irishfan]

Drug violation sucks. But, if he was just selling to his friends (knew countless of ppl in high school/college who did this) then I personally don't think its the end of the world. I can see why ppl would disagree. If he was legit dealing, then, ya, we should drop him.

 

[irishog77]

Something to keep in mind as well may be that often times, at Catholic schools, when a kid is "kicked out," he or she really isn't "expelled." Sure, they happen, but quite often the kid is basically asked to leave, and he or she "withdraws"...and the word "expelled" never appears on a transcript.

 

[chubler]

They're so, so serious about any kind of drugs over at ResLife though... as in, regular-students-are-usually-expelled-on-the-first-offense kinda serious. I just don't see him getting in if it's drug-related at all. Then again, ND football...

 

[calvegas04]

Ive known people that went to BG, and pretty much its a rich kid school and drugs are not uncommon.

 

[BeauBenken]

It would have to turn out to be far less than what he was accused of for me to be comfortable with taking him.

 

[Fbolt]

I would just like to know what actually happened. Speculation and rumor-mongering are not helpful.

#TRUTH

 

[Andy in Sactown]

I'd imagine that the staff will continue to stay in touch, but because of the uncertainty academically his expulsion has caused that we would not accept a verbal at this time. Now, if he gets back in school and is back on a track to pass Notre Dame admissions, that's a horse of a different color.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If admissions is willing to give him a second chance then that would be good enough for me.

BK won't be able to get a firm up or down on that for while yet. So accepting his verbal would be very risky, PR issues aside.

 

[clashmore_mike]

I'd imagine he has some schoolwork to make up before he could even be considered by admissions, correct? I don't know how it works exactly, but I'd imagine he won't get credit for his second semester classes at BG and will need to fix that with summer school or some other means so he can meet the minimum requirements.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I agree with you, assuming things are not worse than expected.



Valid point, but rehabbing one of your own is different than accepting "damaged goods".


Therein lies the problem. BK and staff may be all-in on this kid still for all we know. However, the real trick would be convincing admissions to be so as well.

That exactly, is my point. So many want to give up all their power to a highschool kid, in this case. Once you let him in, you open yourself up. If he is unrepentent, there goes your title run (at ND).

Hey, I have an idea! He could move in with one of us, and we could be his ward. Kind of like Bruce Wayne. We could get him into a good highschool, and in my case, I guaratee he would be on the straight and narrow. He would not understand what happened to life as he knows it. Then he would get his senior year in and ND would know . . .

 

[dublinirish]

I think at this stage its better if ND just looks elsewhere..just too much baggage. Only reason i could see ND taking another look if Hood decommitted and the staff was desperate for a Tailback.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

If he gets his stuff together then I could maybe see ND look at him later on in the process. Remember there are many transfer rules in high school, so my guess is Starks is trying to figure out a way to play ball next year, or you looking at a Tee Shepard situation where the kid doesnt even play his senior year. Which in turn with what he did and rules for enrolling in a new school, i dont see him getting the chance to play in Nevada unless theres a massive loophole. Obviously, there are way to make it happen, but itll be interesting to see if he can even play his Senior year. My guess is he will end up at Oklahoma in the end. I cant see ND taking on baggage at this point in building their program with having Bryant, Folston, Hood, Mahone, Amir, and really in it with some slot guys.

 

[rtrn2glory]

but wasn't he kicked out of school? i don't see how you can be ineligible to play if the school kicked you out.

personally i hate to say it, but if drugs definitely is the reason behind i'd reluctantly decline him as well, especially with hood on board. we've all done a bunch of bad things i understand that, but once drugs are involved imo that's just a scarlett letter that's tough to wash out.

 

[ThePiombino]

If he gets his stuff together then I could maybe see ND look at him later on in the process. Remember there are many transfer rules in high school, so my guess is Starks is trying to figure out a way to play ball next year, or you looking at a Tee Shepard situation where the kid doesnt even play his senior year. Which in turn with what he did and rules for enrolling in a new school, i dont see him getting the chance to play in Nevada unless theres a massive loophole. Obviously, there are way to make it happen, but itll be interesting to see if he can even play his Senior year. My guess is he will end up at Oklahoma in the end. I cant see ND taking on baggage at this point in building their program with having Bryant, Folston, Hood, Mahone, Amir, and really in it with some slot guys.

This can't be emphasized enough. I think the staff would likely look at this situation in a different light if we weren't bordering on an embarrassment of riches at the RB position - assuming Folston, Bryant, and Hood make it to campus.

 

[Buster Bluth]

but wasn't he kicked out of school? i don't see how you can be ineligible to play if the school kicked you out.

personally i hate to say it, but if drugs definitely is the reason behind i'd reluctantly decline him as well, especially with hood on board. we've all done a bunch of bad things i understand that, but once drugs are involved imo that's just a scarlett letter that's tough to wash out.

In today's world the negative vibe from drugs is decreasing everyday as people realize its an education and mental health issue, not so much a legal one.

For me, it's an issue of whether he was dealing drugs, not caught using them. And even then dealing them to strangers, not selling to friends. That's not "dealing" as the law insinuates haha And I could care less about anything if it were cannabis. Catching him with a pound and I won't think less of him. That stuff is harmless.

Also, this is why you don't try to raise kids in LAS VEGAS. Let alone the primo high school there. With the kind of money floating around, I'd bet that school has a huge drug underground.

 

[Fbolt]

In today's world the negative vibe from drugs is decreasing everyday as people realize its an education and mental health issue, not so much a legal one.

For me, it's an issue of whether he was dealing drugs, not caught using them. And even then dealing them to strangers, not selling to friends. That's not "dealing" as the law insinuates haha And I could care less about anything if it were cannabis. Catching him with a pound and I won't think less of him. That stuff is harmless.

Also, this is why you don't try to raise kids in LAS VEGAS. Let alone the primo high school there. With the kind of money floating around, I'd bet that school has a huge drug underground.

I'm going to try.

Bama, LSU, USC, UF recruit-board would be screaming thug/criminal.

SMH at the drug comments. So 14 ounces selling to classmates is okay then?

Says the guy from Toledo, the backdrop for Mayberry.

Stupid post.

btw-does anyone truly know what really happened?

 

[md_bennett]

In today's world the negative vibe from drugs is decreasing everyday as people realize its an education and mental health issue, not so much a legal one.

For me, it's an issue of whether he was dealing drugs, not caught using them. And even then dealing them to strangers, not selling to friends. That's not "dealing" as the law insinuates haha And I could care less about anything if it were cannabis. Catching him with a pound and I won't think less of him. That stuff is harmless.

Also, this is why you don't try to raise kids in LAS VEGAS. Let alone the primo high school there. With the kind of money floating around, I'd bet that school has a huge drug underground.

Really going to have to disagree as well. While partly I understand where you are coming from as there is usually a cause to drive a kid to drugs, alcohol, etc, etc, There IS STILL a legal issue. Last I checked no matter what you believe about it you can still be arrested for having weed. Drugs are illegal, and to even possess it is a crime. Stigma change or not, there is a greater legal issue.

 

[koonja]

I don't want to re-up the 'what Yuri did' vs. 'What Starks did' debate, but Starks has a LOT of time on his hand. If he has a productive senior year in both the classroom and on the field (and in life, for that matter), we're not going to hear as much about this come college time. Just my opinion.

BTW, I agree with you, Buster.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I'm going to try.

Bama, LSU, USC, UF recruit-board would be screaming thug/criminal.

SMH at the drug comments. So 14 ounces selling to classmates is okay then?

Says the guy from Toledo, the backdrop for Mayberry.

Stupid post.

I've never said anything bad about a kid using marijuana. Ever. I've even actively disagreed with people calling them thugs. I think that assumption is rather racist honestly. I have, however, agreed wth the idiocy of using cannabis when you're being randomly/regularly tested and have so much at stake. That is what is wrong.

Back to the topic at hand. We don't know what happened, at all. But there's a huge difference, in general, between these types of drug dealing:

The law considers intent to distribute equal, whether it's with your buddies or strangers. The law gets you to assume "drug dealers" are primarily the crew hanging around middle schools trying to get kids hooked on heroin or some bullshit malarkey. That isn't the case 95% of the time.

Really going to have to disagree as well. While partly I understand where you are coming from as there is usually a cause to drive a kid to drugs, alcohol, etc, etc, There IS STILL a legal issue. Last I checked no matter what you believe about it you can still be arrested for having weed. Drugs are illegal, and to even possess it is a crime. Stigma change or not, there is a greater legal issue.

Well as a Catholic, I'm going to throw out St. Augustine's "an unjust law is no law at all" bit, because I consider the Drug War one of the worst government abuses of our freedom in the history of this country. I consider it to be nothing more than a vote-grabbing mechanism from ignorant parents, and a money-making mechanism for unions and corporations in law enforcement, criminal "corrections", pharmaceuticals, alcohol, tobacco, paper, textiles, drug testing etc.

I'm not at all going to defend his actions as being wise. They were very unwise, clearly. But if they caught the kid throwing a bingefest or with several cartons of cigarettes, we'd shrug our shoulders. That's because we have an artificial aversion to some drugs and not others, built up by a century of propoganda--errr, marketing.

Everyone here knows that Elijah Hood went to a "pretty good party" during his visit. What the hell is the difference? Oh, one substance (while much worse for you), is legal at 21, while one is only legal in a handful of states and not at all permissible under NCAA regulations.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I've never said anything bad about a kid using marijuana. Ever. I've even actively disagreed with people calling them thugs. I think that assumption is rather racist honestly. I have, however, agreed wth the idiocy of using cannabis when you're being randomly/regularly tested and have so much at stake. That is what is wrong.

Back to the topic at hand. We don't know what happened, at all. But there's a huge difference, in general, between these types of drug dealing:

The law considers intent to distribute equal, whether it's with your buddies or strangers. The law gets you to assume "drug dealers" are primarily the crew hanging around middle schools trying to get kids hooked on heroin or some bullshit malarkey. That isn't the case 95% of the time.



Well as Catholic, I'm going to throw out St. Augustine's "an unjust law is no law at all" bit, because I consider the Drug War one of the worst government abuses of our freedom in the history of this country. I consider it to be nothing more than a vote-grabbing mechanism from ignorant parents, and a money-making mechanism for unions and corporations in law enforcement, criminal "corrections", pharmaceuticals, alcohol, tobacco, paper, textiles, drug testing etc.

I'm not at all going to defend his actions as being wise. They were very unwise, clearly. But if they caught the kid throwing a bingefest or with several cartons of cigarettes, we'd shrug our shoulders. That's because we have an artificial aversion to some drugs and not others, built up by a century of propoganda--errr, marketing.

Everyone here knows that Elijah Hood went to a "pretty good party" during his visit. What the hell is the difference? Oh, one substance (while much worse for you), is legal at 21, while one is only legal in a handful of states and not at all permissible under NCAA regulations.

This is some really good work.

I have notice more and more in movies, the one person that never changes is the street pusher, a menacing black or Hispanic male. Never the guy next door. Never a white middle class guy.

I went to arguably the second wealthiest school in my town, at the time. Maumee Valley Country Day was tops, St Johns, a pretty close second. We had more drugs. I used to laugh. People said, did, and acted stupid about drugs because they didn't want to upset their world view. The poorer schools Libbey, Scott, Waite, Devilbiss, and Macomber didn't have the drugs we did. Why? because we had the money.

But this isn't a social commentary thread. Every school had some very good guys, and every school had some very bad ones? Which is Nathan? Try to decide. Let him prove himself. There is no hurry, and chances are nobody will ever know (really) what happened.

 

[dublinirish]

This is some really good work.

I have notice more and more in movies, the one person that never changes is the street pusher, a menacing black or Hispanic male. Never the guy next door. Never a white middle class guy.

I went to arguably the second wealthiest school in my town, at the time. Maumee Valley Country Day was tops, St Johns, a pretty close second. We had more drugs. I used to laugh. People said, did, and acted stupid about drugs because they didn't want to upset their world view. The poorer schools Libbey, Scott, Waite, Devilbiss, and Macomber didn't have the drugs we did. Why? because we had the money.

But this isn't a social commentary thread. Every school had some very good guys, and every school had some very bad ones? Which is Nathan? Try to decide. Let him prove himself. There is no hurry, and chances are nobody will ever know (really) what happened.

Walter White disagrees!

 

[clashmore_mike]

Walter White disagrees!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Walter White disagrees!

Walter White is no street pusher. AND the reason that series is such a great breakthrough is the concept. A guy who spends his whole life being a good guy, goes off the board into the deep end. Automatic, massive doses of conflict built in!

 

[md_bennett]

Well as Catholic, I'm going to throw out St. Augustine's "an unjust law is no law at all" bit, because I consider the Drug War one of the worst government abuses of our freedom in the history of this country. I consider it to be nothing more than a vote-grabbing mechanism from ignorant parents, and a money-making mechanism for unions and corporations in law enforcement, criminal "corrections", pharmaceuticals, alcohol, tobacco, paper, textiles, drug testing etc.

While I disagree with your usage in this case, I will avoid the theological debate in thread for the sake of peace, and leave it at simply this: agree to disagree.

I believe Starks to be a great player, but a young guy who made some poor choices to be kicked out of school. I hope it does not impact him too badly, and that he is still given a chance at redemption and forgiveness. Hopefully this will impact ALL recruits around the nation in a positive manner, and that everybody will seek to be citizens who avoid the negative pressures of our country.