What is your take on negative recruiting?

[DomeLover3]

So I was reading in the thread about Kiffin how he denies negative recruiting.

It seems to me at least, that negative recruiting can either really benefit your program or really hurt it depending on the kid you are talking to.

If the kid is impressionable and you down a school he is considering, it can really help. If he knows what it is he likes or holds coaches to a certain standard, it may really turn him off to your program.

Lets say you're the head coach of Notre Dame. Are you talking smack about UM, USC and others?

There is enough good stuff about Notre Dame that I don't think you would have to negative recruit as head coach of the football team, but if I found out Brian Kelly was negative recruiting me it wouldn't really bother me.

Whats your opinion?

 

[NDBoiler]

it depends on the recruit as you said. If he is a higher character kid (i.e. an RKG or ND man), negative recruiting may turn him off. On the flip side, a more self absorbed/football factory type recruit may be swayed or allow himself to be courted by negative recruiting. I think you are right in that ND can point to a lot of positive aspects about the school and tradition that it's not really necessary to put others down. If you win a good amount of games, ND should really be able to sell itself for the most part. That is the big "IF" though. The coaching staff personality is is the other thing too, basically what are they willing to resort to in order to get a kid to sign. An analogy in the business world is that you will often find people in positions of power who are willing to step on whoever it takes to get to the top, but you do occasionally find that person who does it the "right" way. Here's to hoping ND does it the "right" way.

 

[irishfanjho15]

I'm talking about how ND's degree is far and away better than 95% of any other degree at any other school in the country. And how at ND if you put in the work, you won't be left out in the cold if you get injured. I am also talking about how Kiffin is a proven liar.

 

[irishpat183]

Works great on NCAA 13

I don't like it, personally. It can damage the image of the program and bring in the wrong kinda guys. Honestly, If I have to bash another program just to get you here, I'd rather not have you.

ND just has too much good about it, to have to slam someone else.

 

[ChiRish]

I just don't see how it's that effective.

Recuits don't get all of their information about a certain program merely from the head coach of that program. I'm sure, like any other prospective student, they do a ton of research into a school if they seriously consider it.

I could see certain negative recruiting being slightly effective, like other coaches harping on BK's temper or whatnot. But in all reality, if that kid knows BK from his own recruitment, what are the chances he sits back and thinks, "you know Kiffin. You're right. BK is prone to fits of rage. I don't like ND anymore." I don't think it would happen, unless that kid was looking for an excuse to back away from ND in the first place.

For me, then, I don't like it. I think it represents the dirty side of recruiting. The sad thing is, everyone does it. It's almost a natural human response to downgrade someone else to make yourself look better if you feel that everyone else is doing it. For Kiffin to sit back all high and mighty and pretend he doesn't is laughable. How recruits don't see through it is a joke.

So, I hope ND wouldn't do it. I believe in letting your strengths stand for what they are, and any "perceived weaknesses" that would be the subject of any negative recruiting be presented as completely transparent. Let the recruit ask what he wants, and have BK or whoever be honest. There's a certain level of integrity in that that I think any prospective recruit that is seriously considering ND would appreciate and value.

 

[DomeLover3]

Coach K says he doesn't negative recruit because theres too many good things about Duke. I think, likewise, there are too many good things about Notre Dame.

I think approaching negative recruiting would be somewhat awkward.

Arik Armstead said the only school that did not negative recruit was Oregon. Maybe he only said that because he chose Oregon. That would mean though that Notre Dame did negative recruit.

Whatever the ND staff is doing this cycle, I approve.

 

[ChiRish]

It would just be contradictory to everything the program stands for. We can't go off talking about RKG's and the Notre Dame Man, and then negative recruit. We're supposed to be above that. We let our program, tradition, and the rest stand for itself. And with everything else, honesty and transparency are paramount.

No need to stoop to negative recruiting and join the Kiffins, Miles, and Sabans of the world. I want no part in that.

 

[TDHeysus]

i think negative recruiting can be effective...remember we are dealing with impressionable kids who make decisions based off of stuff like getting their HS girlfriends jobs.

my thing is, if your gonna negative recruit, then dont lie about it. Lane Kiffin is a slimy used car salesman (truly, no offense to used-car salesmen) who will say everything and anything to any recruit to steer him away from any school that isnt USC, up to and including outright lying.

Do you think he let Silas Redd believe he had a shot at gaining 1000 yards for USC? Did he mention to Silas Redd how long it has been since the last USC RB to gain 1000yards? Does Silas Redd know that he has one year, and if he doesnt knock-it-out-of-the-box that hte incoming freshman are going to cut up his playing time?

 

[NDBoiler]

i think negative recruiting can be effective...remember we are dealing with impressionable kids who make decisions based off of stuff like getting their HS girlfriends jobs.

my thing is, if your gonna negative recruit, then dont lie about it. Lane Kiffin is a slimy used car salesman (truly, no offense to used-car salesmen) who will say everything and anything to any recruit to steer him away from any school that isnt USC, up to and including outright lying.

Do you think he let Silas Redd believe he had a shot at gaining 1000 yards for USC? Did he mention to Silas Redd how long it has been since the last USC RB to gain 1000yards? Does Silas Redd know that he has one year, and if he doesnt knock-it-out-of-the-box that hte incoming freshman are going to cut up his playing time?

As a used car salesman myself, I prefer the term "snake oil salesman". I don't know anybody in that line of work.

 

[GBdomer]

We negative recruits and other coaches negative recruit against us. It's college football.

 

[woolybug25]

As a used car salesman myself, I prefer the term "snake oil salesman". I don't know anybody in that line of work.

"Did someone say Snake Oil?"

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

What is your take on negative recruiting?

Hmm, it works in NCAA13..

In reality, my opinion is if the coach knows when and how to use it as a tactical advantage and it works, I'm okay with it.

 

[me9rob]

i think negative recruiting can be effective...remember we are dealing with impressionable kids who make decisions based off of stuff like getting their HS girlfriends jobs.

my thing is, if your gonna negative recruit, then dont lie about it. Lane Kiffin is a slimy used car salesman (truly, no offense to used-car salesmen) who will say everything and anything to any recruit to steer him away from any school that isnt USC, up to and including outright lying.

Do you think he let Silas Redd believe he had a shot at gaining 1000 yards for USC? Did he mention to Silas Redd how long it has been since the last USC RB to gain 1000yards? Does Silas Redd know that he has one year, and if he doesnt knock-it-out-of-the-box that hte incoming freshman are going to cut up his playing time?

I normally don't get involved in stuff like this but Curtis McNeal had 1,000 yards last year and Redd has been quoted many times saying that he likes competing with ANOTHER 1,000 yard back even thought he knows he may not get the same stats. The talk doesn't sound like it's coming from someone who was being told that they'd be the guy from day one and would be guaranteed to lead the team in rushing.

 

[Emcee77]

First of all, I wonder what people mean by negative recruiting. If it's making personal attacks on another school's coach or players ("Urban Meyer is a slimy bastard and you don't want to play for him. One time a player told me that he told him ... ") or calling their intentions into question ("They say they will put you at LB, but they want you as an H-back and they'll end up moving you there. You know it and I know it") then I'm against it. But if it's pointing out relative advantages/disadvantages then there's clearly nothing wrong with it, right? I don't think there's anything wrong, for instance, with Jim Mora telling a recruit that USC is in a ****** neighborhood and you may have to be more careful of crime than you would at UCLA (assuming that's true, as I've heard; never been to L.A.). There would also be nothing wrong with BK telling a recruit that our graduation rate is very high and another school's is quite low. That's just fact. That's how I look at it, anyway.

 

[DomeLover3]

I agree GB I think everyone does it... Don't think its a necessity but that its commonly practiced

 

[IrishInFl]

I'm fine with it, so long as the recruiter's not making $hit up.

 

[polishjuice4]

I bet everyone does it, it just depends on how much. I personally do not like negative recruiting. I would rather see BK say how great Notre Dame is and not why Michigan is so bad.

 

[IrishLax]

There are different types of negative recruiting. There is acceptable negative recruiting where you say "my school is > other school because [academics or on-field success or the system fits your skills better or facilities or etc. etc.]"

And then there is, IMHO, unacceptable negative recruiting where you f*cking make stuff up or lie to a kid because you want him to play for you. "Notre Dame will force you to convert to Catholicism" or "we have the #1 business and #1 acting programs in the country!" or "Tim Tebow is being recruited at linebacker".... the thing is, with social media and the treasure trove of information that is TEH INTERNETZ it's become much, much harder to lie to kids this way. Some coaches obviously still go for it.... and we all know who they are. But more often than not this ends up turning off a kid if they can easily look up a "fact" that a coach tells them and find out that it is completely false.

I promise you that our coaches at ND simply do not tell kids 'what they need to hear' like some other places. They shoot straight. But every coach/school in America does the first type of "negative recruiting" to some degree... the name of the game is showing someone why your school is the best choice for the rest of their lives. I'd bet a lot of money that ND made sure to point out to Elijah Shumate both how good ND's academics are and how horrible South Carolina's are in comparison. That's negative recruiting.

Far less take it to the next step of aggressive negative recruiting... or BSing... or bags of money... or violations... but all coaches, like all men, are made differently. More often than not it's the coaches who feel like they need to compensate for a shortcoming at their school that take it to that next level or get "creative." There is a reason why Kiffin, who is still at his core a liar and wear-any-hat salesman, has totally toned down his act from Tennessee while at USC. USC sells itself and there is droves of west coast talent... Tennessee is an SEC also-ran to people outside of Tennessee. A lot of people are only as good as the situation they're put in. Mack Brown probably didn't need to negatively recruit much, but now maybe he does a bit against Texas A&M and Baylor and TCU who were all better than the Longhorns last year... Joe Paterno was a "good guy" right up until the moment where he was forced to choose between doing the right thing + bad PR and becoming a criminal + getting to the all-time wins mark... there is very little black & white when it comes to college sports.

But I do take some pride in the fact that on the sliding scale of college athletics "morality" in recruiting ND is without question on the 'good' end of things with respect to John "Black Santa" Blake, The U, and the entire SEC conference.

 

[Irish YJ]

I was reading through and was going to type pretty much was Lax said. Glad I didn't have to type all that.

Anyway, every one does it. As long as it's fact and data, not personal....

 

[Old Man Mike]

Another topic where the lack of definition as what exactly we would even be talking about is doomed to subtract rather than add to the knowledge of the universe. LAX gave it a first admirable try to make an honest discussion possible, and it would take a lot more defining.

If we imagined a sliding scale of increasing outrageousness, then anyone might say that anyone does it but some on the mildest end of the scale and others on the grossest. Do we honestly think, as GB intimates, that Kelly and his staff are anywhere near the grosser end? Yet a simple answer to an undefined question smears Kelly with the same brush as the worst offenders.

Also, some people's "sensibilities" are more fragile than others and would class some things as negatives when others would disregard the same thing as having any such connotation at all. Again, total screwed up communication. Topics such as this need more work before any of us grace the world with shallow half-baked opinions which in the end, as this one did, do no proper service to a damm good Coach and Staff.

But hey, it's just good fun, what. Throw Kelly and Alford in the same ditch with the rest of the @$$holes out there.

 

[micks60]

Every staff negative recruits on some degree...end of story

 

[NDhoosier]

I dont have a problem with it.

1) "Here you get a solid education if football doesnt pan out, while at the other school, this is their graduation rate and degree value" (props to WhiskyJack for planting this in all of our minds)

2) "Here, you can get early playing time because here is our depth chart, while the other school is loaded at your position; here is their depth chart."

3) "We have your major, but the other school does not."

There is a difference with that type of negative recruiting and this:
"The murder rate right outside of the other school's campus is the highest in the nation, our school is safe."

or

"We have more girls than that other school."

 

[phgreek]

So I was reading in the thread about Kiffin how he denies negative recruiting.

It seems to me at least, that negative recruiting can either really benefit your program or really hurt it depending on the kid you are talking to.

If the kid is impressionable and you down a school he is considering, it can really help. If he knows what it is he likes or holds coaches to a certain standard, it may really turn him off to your program.

Lets say you're the head coach of Notre Dame. Are you talking smack about UM, USC and others?

There is enough good stuff about Notre Dame that I don't think you would have to negative recruit as head coach of the football team, but if I found out Brian Kelly was negative recruiting me it wouldn't really bother me.

Whats your opinion?

I'll be blunt in the interest of brevity. Stupid and/or insecure people are suckers for negative campaigning in politics, and the same holds for football recruiting.

These coaches are like lawyers. They know the profile of the kid this generally works on. The other thing they do is more subtle attacks through uncle Jim, coach Tom, or Bob at the diner, or even Mom to create a "buzz" all around the kid...and the Coupe De Gras is if two coaches collude to go negative on another...both come in saying kinda the same stuff...kid thinks he's getting corroboration when its just collusion...

Gonna go all Yogi on ya...negative recruiting Always works about half the time

 

[BGIF]

Potential ND Negative Recruiting Lines:

Potential ND Negative Recruiting Lines:

Do you know the rate of veneral disease in Song Girls?

Have you seen the CDC statistics on skin cancer in climates without winter?

Does the L.A. P.D. stil require Kiffin to show recruits that video on how to a survive drive by shootings on Sepulveda Boulevard?

What does one do with a Michigan kinesiology degree besides deliver pizza?

Would you be the first in you family to have a degree in Recreation Management?

I see the SEC now graduates over 50% of their football players. What incredible progress they've made in only 50 years.

Harry Reid tells me the Internal Revenue Service is scheduling income tax audits for Auburn, (Clemson, LSU ... ) players for undeclared income.

Did Florida tell you about the great bailbondsman app they provide all freshman players?

Did Michigan show you Urban Meyer's last arteriogram? I hear Wisconsin has his MRI. Truly sad.

Do you know how cold it gets in Wisconsin?

Did ya know Oklahoma beat out Nebraksa again for worst temperature extremes, Summer AND Winter in the FBS? I've never seen an egg fry on the top of a helmet.

That rumor about being only able to find work in Louisiana if you have an LSU degree isn't true. Mississippi even hires Bama grads. Both of them.

How 'bout that Mack Brown? Brings in the top recruiting class year after year and win 6 games.

Yes, Oregon grads have great work opportunties around the world. Who do you think Phil Knight has making all those Nike sneakers in third world countries?

Did OSU take your photo with a registered sex offender booster, yet?

Did you hear the Vegas Bookies won't make a line on which SEC school gets the Death Penalty next?

Did Miami fly you to Atlanta yet for a dinner with Nevin Shapiro? He's an amazing guy helping the Canes set up that work release program.

I agree Boise has an exciting football program. But how many times would your family have to change planes to see you play?

Did FSU show you the solar powered air conditioning helmets they had mad to offset their global warming fears? With rising sea levels it would be cool to play football on an island like Doak Walker Stadium.

Nick Saban can't even spell calculus.

 

[Irishnuke]

It's a necessary evil and as long as its factual and not lies, I have no problem with it.

 

[D-BOE34]

Do you know the rate of veneral disease in Song Girls?

Have you seen the CDC statistics on skin cancer in climates without winter?

Does the L.A. P.D. stil require Kiffin to show recruits that video on how to a survive drive by shootings on Sepulveda Boulevard?

What does one do with a Michigan kinesiology degree besides deliver pizza?

Would you be the first in you family to have a degree in Recreation Management?

I see the SEC now graduates over 50% of their football players. What incredible progress they've made in only 50 years.

Harry Reid tells me the Internal Revenue Service is scheduling income tax audits for Auburn, (Clemson, LSU ... ) players for undeclared income.

Did Florida tell you about the great bailbondsman app they provide all freshman players?

Did Michigan show you Urban Meyer's last arteriogram? I hear Wisconsin has his MRI. Truly sad.

Do you know how cold it gets in Wisconsin?

Did ya know Oklahoma beat out Nebraksa again for worst temperature extremes, Summer AND Winter in the FBS? I've never seen an egg fry on the top of a helmet.

That rumor about being only able to find work in Louisiana if you have an LSU degree isn't true. Mississippi even hires Bama grads. Both of them.

How 'bout that Mack Brown? Brings in the top recruiting class year after year and win 6 games.

Yes, Oregon grads have great work opportunties around the world. Who do you think Phil Knight has making all those Nike sneakers in third world countries?

Did OSU take your photo with a registered sex offender booster, yet?

Did you hear the Vegas Bookies won't make a line on which SEC school gets the Death Penalty next?

Did Miami fly you to Atlanta yet for a dinner with Nevin Shapiro? He's an amazing guy helping the Canes set up that work release program.

I agree Boise has an exciting football program. But how many times would your family have to change planes to see you play?

Did FSU show you the solar powered air conditioning helmets they had mad to offset their global warming fears? With rising sea levels it would be cool to play football on an island like Doak Walker Stadium.

Nick Saban can't even spell calculus.

Had no idea. Spent a month on Sepulveda when working in L.A. Wish I was negative recruited...

 

[ALLGATOR]

Negative recruiting is pathetic and reeks of desperation. Coaches should stress the positives of their school not the negatives of another.

 

[ACamp1900]

Negative campaigning vs. recruiting??? Thoughts?

 

[AtkinsonsCleats]

Kind of off topic, but apparently Tony Alford made himself a twitter. Its @NDCoachAlford.

 

[Irish#1]

I would guess every coach says something negative at one time or another, but not necessarilly as a tool in their arsenal. Some may only say something negative as a rebuttal after a recruit tells them "Coach X from U of X said your program...........". Then there are those coaches who lie or shall we say bend the truth on a constant basis.