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jmurphy75
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Conversation was not with you don't need your two cents
jmurphy75
Well-known member
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Sorry but when if I were ever to move to another country for whatever reason I would make it my business to learn the language...most people would (or at least I would hope). I fell and this is only my opinion which I am fully entitled to, that my family and ancestors (extended family) had a hand in shaping and sacrificed lives in the service for the United States of America. This country was founded on Christian beleifs, with English as it's language, the acceptance of other beliefs and nationalities was paramount in making the USA a better place. Where things get lost is that the acceptance of beleifs and nationalities should not be mistaken for come on over and we'll adjust the country for whatever you need. Again this is just my opinion I never bash people for their opinion so don't tread on mine.
Rhode Irish
Semi-retired
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If it is a private conversation, go to PM. Otherwise, the conversations are open universe, friend.
If the founding fathers were ever made aware of how tea party lunatics have stolen and bastardized their legacy they would lose their lunch.
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95NDAlumNM
Banned
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See I can do it too
Authorities: Md. man sold $9M in energy credits even though company didn’t make renewable fuel - The Washington Post
MD COURTS: Woman sentenced to 5 years for $2.6M fraud | The Daily Times | delmarvanow.com
WBFF FOX45 - Top Stories - Maryland Man Accused in Fraudulent Renewable Energy Credits
Former President of Maryland Corporation Indicted for Embezzling Over $885,000
Dude I don't watch MSNBC. Its almost as dumb as Fox News.
Anyhow, give me a break I've been to the South and my brother lived in Atalanta for 10 years. I grew up with ignorant rednecks, (some of whom I am still friends with) I know what heading and healing are in team roping, like country music, work in construction and drive an F-150. My dad is also from Mexico and at one point was "illegal" after he jumped his contract because his employer treated him like an "animal". Saying there aren't a "bunch" of people in the South who would freak the hell out if a bunch of Mexicans were allowed to enter the country legally is just kind of silly. To be fair I'm sure parts of Orange County, The Central Valley and Riverside county in California would freak out too. I also think you are being a bit disengenuous comparing your in laws experience with that of the typical migrant from Mexico or Central America. Did they come from extreme poverty and risk life and limb to get to the US? I know plenty of people from Mexico who tried to "do it the right way" via guest worker programs. They were little more than indentured servants who didn't get the benifit of being citizens when all was said and done.
Zwidmanio
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I'll give you that this country's Constitution and founding documents were written in English, but if it were such a fundamental part of the United States don't you think they might have mentioned it?
Here's an interesting quote and link:
“The Founding Fathers of our country did not choose to have an official language precisely because they felt language to be a matter of individual choice.”
CAL: Digests: Does the United States Need a Language Policy?
Sounds like freedom to me! I like that.
Lastly, I don't think I was "treading" on your opinion, just strongly disagreeing with it and voicing my own. That, and other freedoms, is what makes our country great in my opinion, not English.
p.s. Just to clarify, I don't support the idea that anybody should ignore or refuse to learn the dominant language from wherever they might live, I think it's better for them if they would learn it. It's just that, it's on them and for them, not for my comfort.
BobD
Can't get no satisfaction
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E pluribus unum
Who is more American? The one who chose to come here, sometimes risking life or limb to obtain the "American Dream" or someone who was just lucky enough to pop out of the right vagina? America is made of many different nationalities. Beleive it or not, its probably the most important ingredient to our success. To say or argue against this, is in fact, unamerican.
Lawyers are a necessity in our society and many are great human beings, but making fun of them is almost a national past-time...chillax everyone.
Who is more American? The one who chose to come here, sometimes risking life or limb to obtain the "American Dream" or someone who was just lucky enough to pop out of the right vagina? America is made of many different nationalities. Beleive it or not, its probably the most important ingredient to our success. To say or argue against this, is in fact, unamerican.
Lawyers are a necessity in our society and many are great human beings, but making fun of them is almost a national past-time...chillax everyone.
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Buster Bluth
Guest
You're kidding me, right?
Canadians aren't trying to sneak into this country by the truckload. They are a first-world country, Mexico is a third-world country.
Agreed 100%.
My grandfather was a farmer and would naturally hired droves a migrant workers to work the fields. I don't know the full story but my grandparents would pay the tuition costs for a lot of the kids to go to the Catholic high school and provide transportation (they had fourteen of their own children going too...they probably had a bus haha). One of the kids ended up doing really well in wrestling and earned a scholarship to Marshall, later he founded a website and sold it in the dot-com boom for $76,000,000. He came back to the high school my senior year, and the President of the school introduced me to him and that's when he told my about my grandmother paying his way through high school. I was intrigued so I searched him through Google and found commencement speech he gave and read it, he mentioned working long hours in the fields and looking up as a kid at the guy on the tractor and having an inherent desire to one day "be the man on the tractor, not on the ground" or whatever and worked his butt off improve his situation.
So many of America's youth have a privileged lifestyle and take it for granted. They are often lethargic. It's really why I don't have much of a tolerance for even the poor in this country, (a completely different argument than criticizing how our public education system disenfranchises our urban youth...it does and needs to be fixed) just get a damn job already!
Mexican immigrants are really no different than any other wave throughout history, and there has always been a xenophobic reaction to new immigrants. I can't think of an instance in which that wasn't the case. My great-grandfather (not an immigrant, but with an ethnic/immigrant name) changed his last name to get jobs during World War I. This **** happens.
In my opinion, build the wall, grant all of them that are in the country now citizenship (with a ~$2,000 fine....which would add up to $23 Billion if it's 11.5 million illegals, with which you could build the wall), and open up the immigration numbers from all countries. We're artificially keeping the number low, creating a bigger problem than we need.
It would also make sense to go ahead and legalize marijuana, so the crime associated with illegal immigration plummets.
We should also grant anyone with an accredited Master's degree or a Ph.D. earned in the US a fast-tracked path to citizenship for their whole family. Canada has a much smarter immigration policy, and is kicking our *** with it. Immigration is an ECONOMIC BENEFIT for this country, and yet we shy away from it.
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BobD
Can't get no satisfaction
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Ever read this before?
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Rhode Irish
Semi-retired
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NDinLA, Bluto, Buster and BobD with a string of great posts. Just when I had started to give up hope on these "off-topic" threads.
Reps all around.
Reps all around.
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Bogtrotter07
Guest
Murph, You and I have never had a problem, but this post is probably not what you meant to say. Hagen is right. Take private messages offline.
No I am not kidding. What border do you think the majority of terrorists have crossed into the US from? Look at stats as to where contraband comes into this country from. People believe dope is a Mexican-US import. Don't be so naive. I knew a pilot that smuggled dope when he was with the military; now that he is retired, do you think it is any different? How do you think he flew into the country? Do you think that has changed? Since the bootleggers during prohibition? Are you old enough to remember the abandon DC-3 parked in the field, near the intersection of Hill and Reynolds, downed through mechanical failure during a drug run?
Buster I have to say, you are way above average in terms of intelligence. But, sometimes I think you are little too much a product of your educational environment. I am not trying to be patronizing; your post is quite good. But what is missing is in your juxtaposition with Mexicans and Canadians. That isn't what any of this is about. This immigration problem and border issue is about violence, and abject poverty. Your own comment about Canadians coming across the border in truckloads proves it.
The problem isn't with immigrants; it is with drugs and drug dealers. That nefarious activity spawns the smuggling operations etc. And we are not going to clean up the drug trade because too many of us would have to give up our fancy things or go through withdrawal. Anything from some legalization to a shooting war would suffice, and then the dynamics on the southern border would be so changed . . .
The problem isn't with immigrants, it is with poverty. We have the technology to do incredible things. Actually the need for immigration is (or could be) obsolete. Think about it. If we spend time working to improve the wealth and welfare of communities within countries that have this poverty, to provide them employment and a decent living, why would they want to come here? I can put together a hundred page model, that echo's words from past administrations, reports on US strategic defense, hell, even scientist commenting on how to bear the brunt of global climate change the most easily, but nobody wants to listen, or is moved to action. People just want to hold on to their existing prejudices. I guess it provides them comfort.
And speaking of the drug trade and organized crime. Jews, Italians, and the Irish all had their own organized crime elements. In some towns that was prevalent, in others not so much. Two of the most interesting were Detroit’s own Purple Gang and Cleveland’s Mayfield Road Gang. These were quite well integrated groups of sociopathological individuals, willing to advance themselves by almost any means. The one thing they had in common was that they were members of more recent groups of the immigrant wave. Clearly, not only do great statesmen, (Fiorello Enrico La Guardia to Michael Vincent DiSalle) but great criminals grow from an immigrant influx.
The interesting thing about this article is it bears out what I was saying: They got caught, an obviously well organized crime group got busted; isn't this what police get paid for? Thirty? Thirty individuals, out of how many hundred thousand or million? And you have a major story with a governor of a state calling to repeal a sensible piece of legislation. That is the solution, don't learn from it and make adjustments, just repeal it? Give me a break! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT MY DAD WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH POLITITICIANS. Because of this governor's own political agenda, they want to take away a sensible piece of legislation. I want every driver on the road licensed and insured. Because most drivers don't know what they are doing once in a while, and I want them to have insurance, for when their victims need it.
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IrishJayhawk
Rock Chalk
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^This
Fbolt
I've been around
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Bogtrotter07
Guest
Way too cool: FBOLT the film noir rep of the gif set!
That shiit kray; It's Jay!
That shiit kray; It's Jay!
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RDU Irish
Catholics vs. Cousins
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Sorry for offending you. Please don't sue me for slandering your noble profession. There is nothing I could do for a living that could ever live up to your standards so I will refrain from sharing.
Let's just say I work in a profession that has little public trust and rightfully so. People deserve better than what they get and are frequently screwed over by greed or stupidity or both, and can't tell the difference until it is too late. I get irrate cleaning up these cases of abuse where, in practice, it is most productive to sweep up the mess and move on rather than make the jerks pay for abuse. I am highly regulated and it does nothing if anything to clean up the morons and crooks that in some cases destroy people's lives. In a just world, there would be a process for making claims but, as a lawyer, you should be well aware that life is not fair.
1) ROI will show you many lawyers are put in a sh!t financial position, thus encouraging the chasing of ambulances and reducing their ability to choose cases with their moral compass as their guide. See the law school thread if you want the stats on that.
1A) The motivation of many lawyers is the thrill of the competition and they want to win at all costs. A little pine tar, pitching inside, corking the bat, HGH.... very easy to validate to maintain that which you hold most dear. Lawyers, like all humans, find a lot of ways to validate inhumane behavior.
2) You can always find a lawyer willing to facilitate an irrational a-hole hellbent on mutual destruction.
3) If Law were nearly as black and white as lawyers and TV make people believe, we wouldn't need lawyers, our three years to resolve pretty much anything.
RDU Irish
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So, who hear disagrees with legalizing drugs and opening up immigration dramatically to make this interrelated border problem managable? Opening up immigration would be a combination of quicker, cheaper path to citizenship and dramatically expanded Visa/guest worker programs to pretty much let anyone come here and work if they want to.
BobD - I paraphrased Lady Liberty earlier to no avail. Citizen animosity toward immigrants is protectionist. They feel giving to one takes away from another. Immigration, like the economy is not a zero sum game.
BobD - I paraphrased Lady Liberty earlier to no avail. Citizen animosity toward immigrants is protectionist. They feel giving to one takes away from another. Immigration, like the economy is not a zero sum game.
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Bogtrotter07
Guest
The Tea Party. The front for Rich old White men with money. The Tea Party is easy, and they are funny, random little people. They want to use guys like John Adams for their law and order vendetta's and streamlining of the judicial process until it moves at lynch mob speeds. The same John Adams that successfully defended all of the British troops that took part in the Boston Massacre. The same John Adams that said "It would be better to let a hundred guilty men free that to convict one innocent man."
It is so funny how you have all these freshmen congressmen who's appeal was small government, lower spending, now they are all voting to kill habeas corpus, and reduce police and fire service.
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RDU Irish
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Why is the federal government involved in police and fire service? You are correct that they are appealling to smaller government and lower spending. These Congressmen are working the FEDERAL end of the ledger which does not mean that they don't want states and municipalities to provide these same services. What the hell are the feds doing deciding how police and fire service are done? That is just as local of an issue as education, of which the Department of Education would be very high on my list of federal agencies to axe.
Very dishonest argument to say promoting a reduced federal influence in something is equal to being against that service on any level.
As for John Adams, how would he feel about having the highest incarceration rate in the developed world?
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Bogtrotter07
Guest
The highest incarceration in the free world is caused by blatant racism. Nobody can defend stats showing punishment by racial group or crime type, so I will skip over all of that. John Adams is good to stick with because there is a lot of writing documented between John and Abigail about taking care of the slave issue. Abigail predicted the terrible costs from the Civil War to the incarceration of the underclass as a result of the 3/5ths person compromise. (Extremely short version). John knew they didn't do it right, but thought getting the union a start was more important.
As far as the Tea Party candidates, they have campaigned on pseudo libertarian plank and then cutting without thinking at local, state and federal levels, is what is dishonest. Because most of it is to benefit those that really got them elected. I called (privately) several involved in the negotiations between teachers and administration at our local school district. Our school district has more IEP's per capita than any school district, (over 15%) and is rated the second most efficient school district in the state. There hasn't been any kind of teacher’s action in eons. The budget looked good, with the possibility of a slight deficit in year three because property values have been so depressed.
So prior to negotiations a board member had the original treasurer fired. He was in the process of discovering some discrepancies. His replacement was a guy that funneled coin for the John Kasich campaign, and an avowed Tea Party Pussy. The media was given press releases like the teachers are paid slightly below average, so they must tighten their belt, etc., etc. Now I know everyone in play and I saw it in writing. After the state fact finder put a vanilla renewal contract together, which was turned down by the new board, with, you guessed it, a new majority of self-described Tea Party Tampons, the teachers were ask to give up all accumulated sick days, and sign a paper that stated they would never ask for a pay increase again, as long as they worked for the district.
I leaked this to as many people, with my sentiment, which was, these are my kids, people in Washington can play these stupid games, but I want my kids educated by top professionals who could take pride in their jobs and had the security to pay their bills. What with all the money they wrestled from the teachers? You wouldn't even believe what they had intended it for.
So this "Tea Party Phenomenon" promises smaller government with fewer services and lower wages. And when thinking voters see what a bad deal it is, they will run these guys out on a rail. It is on the way. A state bill has never been crushed in Ohio like Kasich's bill to eliminate all collective bargaining. It is just like my Dad said; the other hand is the one doing the work . . .
So it is these individuals that are engaging in dishonest conversation
PS. These freshman congressmen have repeatedly voted against providing Federal monies to state and local government for police and fire protection. They even are obstructing money for college, loans. But they voted more money for foreign wars! Look it up.
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gkIrish
Greek God
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This is the type of crap I was talking about. I asked you not to trash the profession and you started getting personal with me. You don't know **** about me or what I came from so stop acting like Im looking down on you. Like I said, I was curious what you did for a living. Wasn't going to trash you. Grow up
Fbolt
I've been around
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Your Justin Tuck of the NY Giants. You came from ND and played HS ball in Alabama. GKI, you can't hide behind a screen name, we all know who you are!
RDU Irish
Catholics vs. Cousins
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Reps, Fbolt. Made me laugh.
GK - You say you are a lawyer, which (to me) means you phrase questions hiding your motives for a living. Your question was passive aggressive and I choose not to further your "agenda" even if it is only harmless internet message board banter. As I would expect of a lawyer, you get very upset when someone does not provide what you are asking for, as if you entitled to information just because the question crosses your mind? Take a dose of humility and pass it around the office, and the law school reunion while you are at it.
Bogtrotter - WTF with the teacher tangent and Tea Party hate? Are you saying government is not big enough? There is no validity to the concept of reducing the size of government? I missed the part of your local dispute discussion where the teachers took a pay cut? Can't carry over or cash out sick days? Join the rest of the world! Congratulations, your school district is successful and pay below average for this, thus a high efficiency rating. So sorry you elected board members who were not union stooges for a change and they proactively took action to deal with a projected deficit and improve the finances of the district. As far as Ohio teacher pay, maybe you can enlighten us as far as what average pay and benefits look like and what you think a "fair" wage is to attract and retain the top quality teachers you desire (which you apparently have already attracted and retained given your school's high ranking). I would further submit you have neighbors without kids or paying for their own private school that think you should pay for your own kids schooling if it is so damn important to you and that they haven't seen any teacher's starving in the streets or an inability to fill open positions because you don't offer a competitive wage.
And give this illegal immigrant his damn law license stapled to a work visa so he can go to work.
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Me2SouthBend
Guest
If RDU Irish goes missing, JPham had nothing to do with it.
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Bogtrotter07
Guest
No I am not the one to miss the point. The average mid-career teacher was asked give up over $50,000 worth of earned pay, (in accumulated sick time) and never receive a pay raise for the remainder of their career. Which of course means with the true inflation rate, they would be working for 40% of what they are today, when they retired. You can look up pay for Ohio teachers and find the Median, and guess that we are talking below that. You take this deal, (50k forfeiture, and 40% wage reduction) because I am pretty sure unless you shovel shiit in Louisiana; you probably have the ability to do better.
Smaller government is not better. Bigger government is not better. More efficient government that provides the most services possible is better, as long as you keep track of the affordability. That requires accountability. The '94 republicans were not accountable, the Bush admin was not accountable, and the Tea Party is not accountable. The list goes on. Neighbors without kids, union stooges, that isn't worth addressing.
Really, neither is the private school thing. I own property and all property owners that I have talked to around me want solid schools, whether they have kids or not. I do not care for charter or private schools, but that doesn't matter. The board of educations is empowered to do that, and they are the best source, with the best roi. For my kids, I consider going to school with kids of another color, that may speak a different language also, that are bound to wheel chairs that have a myriad of needs, well I consider that positive socialization one of the highest goals of public education.
And I am tired of the lie that the only benefit of an educated generation is to the parents. That is ego-myopic thinking. And that is the problem with the Tea Party. They want more of my money to do less for everyone.
RDU Irish
Catholics vs. Cousins
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Outrageous! The Psychology of Self-Righteous Indignation - Kellevision
You see my original "offensive" statement was in regards to character being indicated as a pre-requisite to obtaining a law license insinuating that lawyers can be trusted by the pure fact that they are lawyers. The fact this is taken as an affront to the entire profession, by someone of said profession, only reinforces all of the stereo-typical self-righteous indignation we come to expect of lawyers. Think what you want of yourself but making fun of lawyers has been in vogue for a few centuries and you might want to understand there is a fair amount of cynicism underlying this age old hobby.
I make no bones about the fact my profession is full of scoundrels and that I am NOT one of them. I work with the understanding that I have to work that much harder for my client’s trust because they are rightfully untrusting! It is not me they do not trust by reflex, it is the profession. Maybe next time I will whine to them about how unfair that is? Or maybe I will agree with them, share my own experiences that illustrate my motivation for getting into this line of work because people deserve better.
RDU Irish
Catholics vs. Cousins
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Whoops, that is the original comment I addressed. Not good with the multi quote tool.
RDU Irish
Catholics vs. Cousins
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