Who do you want to replace Brian Kelly?

[scUM Hater]

Living here in Michigan I don't think Dantonio would be comfortable at ND. He is somewhat of an introvert with the media and he would not want all the obligations of being an ND coach. He is perfectly happy at MSU and the expectations are low enough there that he gets no heat for the most part.

I feel like he would be a disaster at ND.

Exactly right. Also, He will only leave for South Caroliina.

 

[scUM Hater]

ND WILL NEVER.....I REPEAT....NEVER....hire Tressel. His past is way too shady. He will go to Baylor.

 

[ulukinatme]

Tressel or Herman are my top two.

Tressel could handle the pressure and media like a champ.

Herman is young and enthusiastic, all things that I hear is that he and Urban are super tight, it would be a matter of what kind of endorsement Urban would give us.

No way we snag Herman, he's going somewhere that will fork out dough with less pressure. Also, if the job hinged on Urban's endorsement, he'd likely give him the same words of wisdom that Bob Davie gave him when Urban was considering the job.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Pete Carroll with Seattle!

He's like 65 going on 29

 

[BobbyMac]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you're in your sixties, that's not old. You guys that think it is will change your mind once you get here.

FIFY

 

[scUM Hater]

Kelly will be retained, coach 2 more years, win 9/10 games those years. NFL will call, he will go. He will be sick of the college game and ND fans/media. PJ Fleck will be ready to take over ND.

 

[BobbyMac]

Exactly right. Also, He will only leave for South Caroliina.

???

Then why didn't he leave last year when the job was his if he wanted it?

Could it be that $1.3M pay cut?

 

[BobbyMac]

Kelly will be retained, coach 2 more years, win 9/10 games those years. NFL will call, he will go. He will be sick of the college game and ND fans/media. PJ Fleck will be ready to take over ND.

Yipee! Another Tier 3 coaching tree to chose assistants from! Can't wait!

 

[kmoose]

I am by no means saying coaches in their sixties cannot be successful. Plenty of them are. I'm saying I can't think of many examples where it has worked out for a coach 60+ taking a new high pressure job.

Also I just think we generally should target someone that could be here 25 years and not 5-10.

No one is going to be the Head Football Coach at Notre Dame for 25 years. In order to be successful enough to last that long, they will have to become a HUGE personality, and they will have to surpass Rockne's 105 win record. I don't think the Administration would allow either of those things to happen. But that's just my opinion....

Bill Snyder came back to Kansas State in 2009 at age 70, and is having reasonably good success.

 

[ulukinatme]

No one is going to be the Head Football Coach at Notre Dame for 25 years. In order to be successful enough to last that long, they will have to become a HUGE personality, and they will have to surpass Rockne's 105 win record. I don't think the Administration would allow either of those things to happen. But that's just my opinion....

Bill Snyder came back to Kansas State in 2009 at age 70, and is having reasonably good success.

Someone will do this eventually. I know there was a big talk that Lou didn't want to surpass Rockne and that's why he stepped down, but we know now that wasn't the case. The big wigs didn't like the power he was wielding at the time, and Lou knew it. Boob Davie was helping to facilitate the exit. Under pressure Lou suggested "Maybe I should step down," and none of them argued otherwise, so he left.

Today, I think the administration would retain a coach if they were approaching Rockne's win total and were still successful on the field and in the classroom. A successful football team is good for Notre Dame because it means $$$. These days they're much more conscious about revenue and make better business decisions. I would have to think they would retain a coach and let Rockne's record fall if it was the right coach.

 

[kmoose]

I know there was a big talk that Lou didn't want to surpass Rockne and that's why he stepped down, but we know now that wasn't the case. The big wigs didn't like the power he was wielding at the time, and Lou knew it. Boob Davie was helping to facilitate the exit. Under pressure Lou suggested "Maybe I should step down," and none of them argued otherwise, so he left.

I have a friend whose Dad is an ND grad (class of '60, I think). At one time, he was the Controller for Fortune 500 company Diebold. By the time Lou came to ND, he had retired from Diebold and was involved in Real Estate with a very successful developer. He ran in the same circles as some very heavyweight ND Donors. Not DeBartolo heavy, but the next tier down. My friend's dad was very certain, based on conversations he had with people he says would know, that the Administration gave Lou a choice........... resign or be fired. And the consensus was that it was to keep Lou from breaking Rockne's record. 30 years later, the new generation of ND Administrators may not revere Rockne like the last generation did. So you might be right about that no longer being a factor. But I think that they will NOT allow the Head Football Coach to become too large a celebrity. They'll never let a coach become as big a rock star as Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. ND has always been conscious of finances. That's how they got to be one of the richest Universities in the country. Holtz was "the right kind of coach". He managed to get ND's first, and only, Prop 48 kids admitted: John Foley and Tony Rice. He also got a VERY academically challenged Chris Zorich admitted. In the case of Zorich, I believe that the story goes that Holtz personally guaranteed that Zorich would make it academically, even if Holtz had to go to classes with him and tutor him. All 3 of those players graduated, and graduated on time. Holtz also ended up passing on Randy Moss. It might have taken 3 strikes but Holtz showed an ability to judge a kid's character well, and determine which kids were likely to be successful in the classroom at ND. I just can't see anyone coming along that will be so much more impressive that the Administration will trust THEM to become as big as the brand itself.

 

[MNIrishman]

I don't think Knute himself would want his record to stand between ND and success

 

[GoIrish41]

My son's rec league football coach was pretty good. My son's last year they won 7 of 8 games. He's now coaching D backs at the HS and that team won 6 games this year .... more than in any year for the past decade. I think he'd be willing to listen if Jack made an offer. We need a defensive mind running this team and I think he'd be terrific. The boys loved him, partly because the went to Pizza Hut after home games. Of course, he's going to want to bring in his own guys with him.

 

[ulukinatme]

I have a friend whose Dad is an ND grad (class of '60, I think). At one time, he was the Controller for Fortune 500 company Diebold. By the time Lou came to ND, he had retired from Diebold and was involved in Real Estate with a very successful developer. He ran in the same circles as some very heavyweight ND Donors. Not DeBartolo heavy, but the next tier down. My friend's dad was very certain, based on conversations he had with people he says would know, that the Administration gave Lou a choice........... resign or be fired. And the consensus was that it was to keep Lou from breaking Rockne's record. 30 years later, the new generation of ND Administrators may not revere Rockne like the last generation did. So you might be right about that no longer being a factor. But I think that they will NOT allow the Head Football Coach to become too large a celebrity. They'll never let a coach become as big a rock star as Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. ND has always been conscious of finances. That's how they got to be one of the richest Universities in the country. Holtz was "the right kind of coach". He managed to get ND's first, and only, Prop 48 kids admitted: John Foley and Tony Rice. He also got a VERY academically challenged Chris Zorich admitted. In the case of Zorich, I believe that the story goes that Holtz personally guaranteed that Zorich would make it academically, even if Holtz had to go to classes with him and tutor him. All 3 of those players graduated, and graduated on time. Holtz also ended up passing on Randy Moss. It might have taken 3 strikes but Holtz showed an ability to judge a kid's character well, and determine which kids were likely to be successful in the classroom at ND. I just can't see anyone coming along that will be so much more impressive that the Administration will trust THEM to become as big as the brand itself.

My family is well connected to some big donors at the university as well. I don't think I've ever mentioned this, but my grandparents have given quite a bit to the university. There's a room in the new science building dedicated to the family, and there's a plaque in the Elk Visitor Center with their name on it. There's also a scholarship in their name. They haven't given as much as the LaBar family by any means, but we sit right in front of their family in the gold seats for games. We're friends and chat quite a bit. The whole Rockne record thing was lip service for Lou to save face and go out on a high note so to speak. I honestly don't know how much Davie was working behind the scenes, some of that was what I've read and speculation I'm sure, but trust me when I say the whole Rockne record thing was not the main reason Lou left.

That said, my theory that the administration today would allow a coach to break Rockne's record is purely speculation on my part, no inside info there. They seem much more business driven these days in their decisions, and if a coach was successful enough that the team was winning very well on the field and in the classroom, I have a feeling they would let them break the record today. I'm not saying BK is that coach, but I think they would let the right coach do it if it was good for business.

 

[NDShark]

My family is well connected to some big donors at the university as well. I don't think I've ever mentioned this, but my grandparents have given quite a bit to the university. There's a room in the new science building dedicated to the family, and there's a plaque in the Elk Visitor Center with their name on it. There's also a scholarship in their name. They haven't given as much as the LaBar family by no means, but we sit right in front of their family in the gold seats for games. We're friends and chat during games. The whole Rockne record thing was lip service for Lou to save face and go out on a high note so to speak. I honestly don't know how much Davie was working behind the scenes, some of that was what I've read and speculation I'm sure, but trust me when I say the whole Rockne record thing was not the main reason Lou left.

That said, my theory that the administration today would allow a coach to break Rockne's record is purely speculation on my part, no inside info there. They seem much more business driven these days in their decisions, and if a coach was successful enough that the team was winning very well on the field and in the classroom, I have a feeling they would let them break the record today. I'm not saying BK is that coach, but I think they would let the right coach do it if it was good for business.

It would be absolutely insane to force out coaches (esp a successful one like Lou) for such a meaningless record. Who gives an F (about the record) if the guy you're forcing out is positioning your team for success!

 

[dad4aa]

I have a friend whose Dad is an ND grad (class of '60, I think). At one time, he was the Controller for Fortune 500 company Diebold. By the time Lou came to ND, he had retired from Diebold and was involved in Real Estate with a very successful developer. He ran in the same circles as some very heavyweight ND Donors. Not DeBartolo heavy, but the next tier down. My friend's dad was very certain, based on conversations he had with people he says would know, that the Administration gave Lou a choice........... resign or be fired. And the consensus was that it was to keep Lou from breaking Rockne's record. 30 years later, the new generation of ND Administrators may not revere Rockne like the last generation did. So you might be right about that no longer being a factor. But I think that they will NOT allow the Head Football Coach to become too large a celebrity. They'll never let a coach become as big a rock star as Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. ND has always been conscious of finances. That's how they got to be one of the richest Universities in the country. Holtz was "the right kind of coach". He managed to get ND's first, and only, Prop 48 kids admitted: John Foley and Tony Rice. He also got a VERY academically challenged Chris Zorich admitted. In the case of Zorich, I believe that the story goes that Holtz personally guaranteed that Zorich would make it academically, even if Holtz had to go to classes with him and tutor him. All 3 of those players graduated, and graduated on time. Holtz also ended up passing on Randy Moss. It might have taken 3 strikes but Holtz showed an ability to judge a kid's character well, and determine which kids were likely to be successful in the classroom at ND. I just can't see anyone coming along that will be so much more impressive that the Administration will trust THEM to become as big as the brand itself.

My family is well connected to some big donors at the university as well. I don't think I've ever mentioned this, but my grandparents have given quite a bit to the university. There's a building in the new science building dedicated to the family, and there's a plaque in the Elk Visitor Center with their name on it. There's also a scholarship in their name. They haven't given as much as the LaBar family by no means, but we sit right in front of their family in the gold seats for games. We're friends and chat during games. The whole Rockne record thing was lip service for Lou to save face and go out on a high note so to speak. I honestly don't know how much Davie was working behind the scenes, some of that was what I've read and speculation I'm sure, but trust me when I say the whole Rockne record thing was not the main reason Lou left.

That said, my theory that the administration today would allow a coach to break Rockne's record is purely speculation on my part, no inside info there. They seem much more business driven these days in their decisions, and if a coach was successful enough that the team was winning very well on the field and in the classroom, I have a feeling they would let them break the record today. I'm not saying BK is that coach, but I think they would let the right coach do it if it was good for business.

The bolded are two different versions. Kmoose is saying he was forced out TO KEEP from breaking the record (which is what I have heard as well from people who worked inside the athletic and football department during Lou's tenure). You are saying Lou resigned on his own SO HE WOULDN'T break the record.

I agree that I don't think this would happen today and if a coach is successful they will keep in here in spite of breaking the record.

 

[ulukinatme]

The bolded are two different versions. Kmoose is saying he was forced out TO KEEP from breaking the record (which is what I have heard as well from people who worked inside the athletic and football department during Lou's tenure). You are saying Lou resigned on his own SO HE WOULDN'T break the record.

I agree that I don't think this would happen today and if a coach is successful they will keep in here in spite of breaking the record.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the rumor "Lou left so he wouldn't break Rockne's record" is just that, a rumor. It wasn't the real reason he left. The administration wanted Lou out because they felt like he had too much power. There were some that thought the team could do better with a fresh coach too, but mostly they were worried Lou was becoming untouchable. Lou could sense their feelings, he felt he was no longer wanted, and suggested himself that he step down. No one opposed him, so he said "That's that." There's speculation Davie was working behind the scenes too, but I can't say that for sure.

At the end of the day, the whole record story was just that...a story. It was a fairy tale ending to give Lou a graceful exit and hide the truth.

 

[stlnd01]

Recall that Lou's program was slipping (I know, I know. But that's how it felt at the time).
He had changed up his offense to suit Ron Powlus, who never quite lived up to the hype. The '94 and '96 seasons had a few more losses than we had become accustomed to. There was a rash of off-field issues (some of which didn't get public but were known around campus and sometimes resulted in mysterious nagging injuries that sidelined key players). And back then the administration was far more conflicted about "Doing What It Takes" to win at football than it is today, at a time when more programs around the country were starting to gear up.
I suspect all that - plus a decade's pressure on the job - had a lot more to do with Lou moving on than breaking or not breaking some 75-year-old wins record.

 

[ThePiombino]

Recall that Lou's program was slipping (I know, I know. But that's how it felt at the time).
He had changed up his offense to suit Ron Powlus, who never quite lived up to the hype. The '94 and '96 seasons had a few more losses than we had become accustomed to. There was a rash of off-field issues (some of which didn't get public but were known around campus and sometimes resulted in mysterious nagging injuries that sidelined key players). And back then the administration was far more conflicted about "Doing What It Takes" to win at football than it is today, at a time when more programs around the country were starting to gear up.
I suspect all that - plus a decade's pressure on the job - had a lot more to do with Lou moving on than breaking or not breaking some 75-year-old wins record.

This. A million times this.

 

[ThePiombino]

Someone want to provide an example of a 60+ year old coach going to a new job at a big program and having great success? I just honestly can't think of one.

Bill Snyder count?

 

[BobbyMac]

Bill Snyder count?

He was only 49 when he got the K State job.

 

[ThePiombino]

He was only 49 when he got the K State job.

The 2nd time?

 

[Irish#1]

I am by no means saying coaches in their sixties cannot be successful. Plenty of them are. I'm saying I can't think of many examples where it has worked out for a coach 60+ taking a new high pressure job.

Also I just think we generally should target someone that could be here 25 years and not 5-10.

I don't care if he's 65 and stays one year as long as he wins a title.

 

[Irish#1]

I have a friend whose Dad is an ND grad (class of '60, I think). At one time, he was the Controller for Fortune 500 company Diebold. By the time Lou came to ND, he had retired from Diebold and was involved in Real Estate with a very successful developer. He ran in the same circles as some very heavyweight ND Donors. Not DeBartolo heavy, but the next tier down. My friend's dad was very certain, based on conversations he had with people he says would know, that the Administration gave Lou a choice........... resign or be fired. And the consensus was that it was to keep Lou from breaking Rockne's record. 30 years later, the new generation of ND Administrators may not revere Rockne like the last generation did. So you might be right about that no longer being a factor. But I think that they will NOT allow the Head Football Coach to become too large a celebrity. They'll never let a coach become as big a rock star as Nick Saban or Urban Meyer. ND has always been conscious of finances. That's how they got to be one of the richest Universities in the country. Holtz was "the right kind of coach". He managed to get ND's first, and only, Prop 48 kids admitted: John Foley and Tony Rice. He also got a VERY academically challenged Chris Zorich admitted. In the case of Zorich, I believe that the story goes that Holtz personally guaranteed that Zorich would make it academically, even if Holtz had to go to classes with him and tutor him. All 3 of those players graduated, and graduated on time. Holtz also ended up passing on Randy Moss. It might have taken 3 strikes but Holtz showed an ability to judge a kid's character well, and determine which kids were likely to be successful in the classroom at ND. I just can't see anyone coming along that will be so much more impressive that the Administration will trust THEM to become as big as the brand itself.

My family is well connected to some big donors at the university as well. I don't think I've ever mentioned this, but my grandparents have given quite a bit to the university. There's a room in the new science building dedicated to the family, and there's a plaque in the Elk Visitor Center with their name on it. There's also a scholarship in their name. They haven't given as much as the LaBar family by any means, but we sit right in front of their family in the gold seats for games. We're friends and chat quite a bit. The whole Rockne record thing was lip service for Lou to save face and go out on a high note so to speak. I honestly don't know how much Davie was working behind the scenes, some of that was what I've read and speculation I'm sure, but trust me when I say the whole Rockne record thing was not the main reason Lou left.

That said, my theory that the administration today would allow a coach to break Rockne's record is purely speculation on my part, no inside info there. They seem much more business driven these days in their decisions, and if a coach was successful enough that the team was winning very well on the field and in the classroom, I have a feeling they would let them break the record today. I'm not saying BK is that coach, but I think they would let the right coach do it if it was good for business.

I would be surprised if the admin didn't want Rockne's record broken. Think of all of the national publicity this would mean if ND had a coach so successful that he broke Rockne's record! It would only reinforce and add to the lore that the Irish are one of the premier football programs. That of course is assuming we're not talking about a coach who averaged 5 wins a season and was at ND for 20+ years. lol

 

[Ndaccountant]

Tressel??? LOL.

He is president of YSU, has stuff named after him on their campus and basically took over the gig (without a PHD) to more less save the school, since their prior president bolted for SIU after a few months and created a huge mess. Simply put, they guy is a savior there and he is a NE Ohio guy.

Besides, what makes anyone think JT wants anything to do with football? What is it about his recent past (3 years) implies he is waiting to be a coach? Is he doing halftime or pregame shows? Is he in the NFL? Is working radio? Nope, nope and nope. I would be shocked if took a gig now, especially since he is about to turn 64.

 

[gkIrish]

The 2nd time?

He was only 49 when he got the K State job.

Bill Snyder count?

I wouldn't count Snyder. K State is not a big program and he had already been there.

 

[kmoose]

I wouldn't count Snyder. K State is not a big program and he had already been there.

K State is a P5 team that has finished in the Top 20 three times since 2010. I'm not saying it is an Alabama, Michigan, etc........ but it's not UTEP either.

I can't think of any others, off the top of my head. But I think that maybe, by your definition of K State not being a big program, that your definition of "big program" would probably make the sample size so small that it would be almost impossible to find an example. Unless we want to include the NFL, in which case Pete Carroll going to Seattle at age 59 and taking them to the Super Bowl should certainly qualify.

 

[Black Irish]

What about the whole "Mike Sanford is the HC-in-waiting theory?" that was getting tossed around when Sanford got hired? Is Sanford a valuable enough commodity for Jack S to strategize around? If Kelly goes after this season, Sanford is too green to make HC. But if you want to keep him, you need a placeholder coach who can hold things together well enough for 2-3 years while Sanford develops into HC material. Or, you get that up-and-comer HC that you can build on for 5-10 years and Sanford is likely off to a HC job somewhere else pretty soon.

 

[CrystalHead]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the rumor "Lou left so he wouldn't break Rockne's record" is just that, a rumor. It wasn't the real reason he left. The administration wanted Lou out because they felt like he had too much power. There were some that thought the team could do better with a fresh coach too, but mostly they were worried Lou was becoming untouchable. Lou could sense their feelings, he felt he was no longer wanted, and suggested himself that he step down. No one opposed him, so he said "That's that." There's speculation Davie was working behind the scenes too, but I can't say that for sure.

At the end of the day, the whole record story was just that...a story. It was a fairy tale ending to give Lou a graceful exit and hide the truth.

Lou having too much power was a major factor in his firing. Spurrier was coming on the scene with an air it out, score at will offense. It was easy on the eyes and fun to watch. Lou was the grind it out power football offense that was considered boring. Lou was bigger than life at ND and he let Wadsworth know it. There were several behind closed doors meetings between the two that turned into screaming matches. Everyone one in the football office could hear it. My best friends mom was the secretary for the AD at the time and heard these arguments. Lou was being pressured into changing his philosophy and was also constantly being reminded who his boss was. Wadsworth flexed his muscle and Lou said enough is enough and stepped down. IMO the rumor of the record was nothing more than the administration saving face of letting go of a legend. I think Lou's love for ND welcomed the rumor to take hold so no bad light would shine on the University.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Tressel??? LOL.

He is president of YSU, has stuff named after him on their campus and basically took over the gig (without a PHD) to more less save the school, since their prior president bolted for SIU after a few months and created a huge mess. Simply put, they guy is a savior there and he is a NE Ohio guy.

Besides, what makes anyone think JT wants anything to do with football? What is it about his recent past (3 years) implies he is waiting to be a coach? Is he doing halftime or pregame shows? Is he in the NFL? Is working radio? Nope, nope and nope. I would be shocked if took a gig now, especially since he is about to turn 64.

You bring a lot of valid points that I don't disagree with. But, I wonder what were all the 'rules' surrounding him once he took his temporary 'ban'?