VanGorder - New DC!

woolybug25

woolybug25

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rocket66 said:
The whole Schmidt thing pales in comparison to BVG's horrible track record on the recruiting trail. I hope I'm wrong but the lack of talent in several key areas on the defense is really going to show this year.


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What areas specifically are you speaking about?
 
Domina Nostra

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rocket66 said:
The whole Schmidt thing pales in comparison to BVG's horrible track record on the recruiting trail. I hope I'm wrong but the lack of talent in several key areas on the defense is really going to show this year.


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Apart from Alabama, Ohio State, USC, and maybe Georgia and Florida State, everyone has recruiting problems. Even some of those schools had issues at particular positions for some stretches (Alabama- QB, USC and FSU- OL).
 
IrishLion

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IrishLax said:
4. Nyles Morgan is so good at MLB that it compensates for losing Smith.
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I don't think Nyles Morgan needs to be "so good" to compensate for losing Jaylon... He just needs to be a serviceable, average DI linebacker, which will allow the OLB's to make plays in ways they couldn't last year. Coney/Barajas/Bilal/Martini/Onwualu should be able to run around as unique weapons, rather than needing to cover for their MLB.

Jaylon was done a major disservice by playing next to Joe Schmidt, and I think that's putting it lightly. He was either (1) being superman to fly across the formation and make a play that Joe is supposed to make or (2) not being given the freedom to operate that he deserved because our MLB couldn't be counted on to make anything above "average" plays between the whistles.

So we lost a tremendous talent in Jaylon, and our defense would have been abysmal without him... but the impact won't be as dramatic, and the loss will be offset much easier than people realize, because of how limited he was within the defense.
 
dublinirish

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IrishLion said:
I don't think Nyles Morgan needs to be "so good" to compensate for losing Jaylon... He just needs to be a serviceable, average DI linebacker, which will allow the OLB's to make plays in ways they couldn't last year. Coney/Barajas/Bilal/Martini/Onwualu should be able to run around as unique weapons, rather than needing to cover for their MLB.

Jaylon was done a major disservice by playing next to Joe Schmidt, and I think that's putting it lightly. He was either (1) being superman to fly across the formation and make a play that Joe is supposed to make or (2) not being given the freedom to operate that he deserved because our MLB couldn't be counted on to make anything above "average" plays between the whistles.

So we lost a tremendous talent in Jaylon, and our defense would have been abysmal without him... but the impact won't be as dramatic, and the loss will be offset much easier than people realize, because of how limited he was within the defense.
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you know BVG blitzed Joe more than he blitzed Jaylon in 2015? :/
 
Luckylucci

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IrishLax said:
It's pretty tough reading BK's comments and other stuff and seeing a way the defense is much better this year. We lost a LOT of talent. KVR, Sheldon Day, and Jaylon Smith are not chopped liver... and Okwara/Shumate were solid.

I think these five things need to happen for the defense to improve (ordered based on likelihood):
1. Defensive line plays stout against the run based on sheer size... Rochelle + Jones + Cage/Tillery + Jay Hayes is a big group of linemen that should hold up at point of attack. Don't worry about pass rush, get that by creating free blitzers.
2. Shaun Crawford is a revelation at nickel.
3. Drue Tranquill returns to 100% and stays healthy the whole year.
4. Nyles Morgan is so good at MLB that it compensates for losing Smith.
5. After three years of being terrible Max Redfield somehow becomes not-terrible.

If all five of those things don't happen, the team is probably going to suck because there is going to be a huge deficiency somewhere. The only caveats would be true freshman like Studstill or Daelin Hayes or somebody playing out of their mind.
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I don't necessarily think the defense has to be much better. I think they have to be more consistent and if BVG is worth a darn, he can get them to be. My thesis is that the talent is there, its not proven, but that's what coaches are for. Before I address your specific points, I must say that. Sheldon Day, Okwara, and Shumate just had their best years of their respective careers, why couldn't we get that type of play from Rochelle, Trumbetti, Cage, Luke, Redfield etc. I really don't think its out of the realm of possibility that we get better play from a lot of these guys. Not only that, but its what we should expect. If that talent isn't producing, then we know why.

On the issues you mentioned.

1.) I expect this to be the case. All signs point to Cage being a guy that has taken his game to another level. Like you said, those are some stout players and I expect them to be better against the run.

2, I don't think that Crawford has to be a revelation for this to be a net positive and thus impacting the defense in a positive way. I also wouldn't say that its extreme to think he could have a breakout year. This is a high 4 star talent with exceptional athleticism and perfect for that spot. I believe it was Lou S at BGI, that said during Spring practice, he can't remember seeing a CB impact 7 on 7 as much as Crawford did. Usually 7 on 7 is pitch and catch for the offense.

3.) I agree, I think that's pretty vital as of right now, and doesn't seem likely if history tells us anthing. I'd say valid concern. However, how much of a concern, I don't know. Because, depending on how he's used, we do have some talent that can play different spots. I think Studstill could play some of that SS role that BVG likes. Maybe move JO and put in Bilal at SAM or Martini. There are more options with more athletes, a good DC can get that done.

4.) I don't think Morgan has to be all world for the LB group as a whole to be better. Reasons why. Jaylon Smith is a hell of a talent and one of the best I've seen play college football. However, he only had 18 TFL's and 4.5 sacks his sophomore and Junior seasons. For comparison sake, Manti Teo had 23 TFL's and 6 sacks those same years. So the general impact that Smith had on the defense, could be argued ,that it was less than Manti. Manti just wasn't playing next to a Schmidt, where there was so much clean up needed. I expect that won't be the case this year, as there won't be that weak link on the field. Morgan + Whoever > Smith + Schmidt. Keep in mind that there were LB's that had more productive years that Jaylon last season, but he was the best talent. Collectively, I could easily see more production from that group. Also, with as much as BVG takes risks with his MLB, this is a scheme that seems to be built for a guy like Morgan. Morgan will have plenty of chances to make those plays. It's very possible that Morgan actual has a larger impact than Smith, in those areas (TFL's/sacks). Not a better player but more of an impact, because he'll be given more chances. In fact, my entire crux with BVG has been his lack of flexibility of putting his best talent in the right spots. Instead he runs his scheme regardless of who is where. Well, this is certainly the time to run what he did in the past, because he'll have an MLB that can make those plays.

5.) Again, I take a somewhat optimistic view, but the expectation should be players get better, that's what college football, or football in general, is all about. I expect either a better Redfield or Studstill that is better than Redfield last year.

I think some of the language is a little extreme. Suck and huge are extremes. For example, why does Studstill have to have a huge year, in order for it to have a positive impact or to play better than Redfield. You've said it yourself, Redfield has been garbage, why would Studstill have to be "huge" in order to be an upgrade over Redfield, isn't there some middle ground that is reasonable?
 
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dublinirish

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dublinirish said:
https://pistolsfiringblog.com/report-brian-vangorder-expected-to-be-promoted-as-10th-osu-assistant/
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hRtKmqK.gif
 
MNIrishman

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woolybug25 said:
I am by no means saying that I believe that this will happen, but if we are skating by each week on the back of an electric offense, but are giving up 30+ a game. Then I would have a hard time not wanting to fire BVG if we drop a close one to MSU or Stanford in the first half of the season.

If we get to the bye with a one loss record and a horrid defense risking every game, then I don't see why you don't let Elliott take over (stability) and give us a defense that is rejuvenated for a playoff push. Letting BVG continue to trot out a bad defense with our talent would be wasting an opportunity for our program.

But watch that happen, then have an injury ridden team limp into a 9-10 win season and a pinstripe bowl.
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Man, wouldn't that have been nice in retrospect?
 
dublinirish

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will make north of 900k this year as Louisville's DC. Don't forget they play Bama this weekend!
 
ACamp1900

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"A defensive performance for the ages and the Louisville Cardinals completely shut down the defending champs here in Orlando. What a night for Brian VanGorder!!"
 
zelezo vlk

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Veritate Duce Progredi said:
Unless he has a few Jaylon Smith's to hide his lack of skills, I'm going with 3 seasons because #Louisville.
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I desperately want to see Kelly run the score up on his old friend

ACamp1900 said:
"A defensive performance for the ages and the Louisville Cardinals completely shut down the defending champs here in Orlando. What a night for Brian VanGorder!!"
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Wait, I thought Louisville was playing Bama, not UCF?
 
Irish#1

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dublinirish said:
will make north of 900k this year as Louisville's DC. Don't forget they play Bama this weekend!
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Given his track record, his must be able to sell ice to an eskimo to get that kind of a salary.

Remember when we were giddy as school girls when BVG was hired? lol
 
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Irish#1 said:
Given his track record, his must be able to sell ice to an eskimo to get that kind of a salary.

Remember when we were giddy as school girls when BVG was hired? lol
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That would explain his amazing recruiting skills.
 
T Town Tommy

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I checked in expecting to see the famous Van Gorder fist pump. I leave disappointed.
 
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Irish#1 said:
Given his track record, his must be able to sell ice to an eskimo to get that kind of a salary.

Remember when we were giddy as school girls when BVG was hired? lol
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Or when people were bragging about eating deer shoulder to celebrate Tenuta's arrival?

It turned rancid quickly.
 
ulukinatme

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BGIF said:
Or when people were bragging about eating deer shoulder to celebrate Tenuta's arrival?

It turned rancid quickly.
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I think Tenuta might be an okay DC, just didn't work out for ND. Could have been the whole Co-DC thing, bad fit from a personality standpoint, or maybe we didn't have the speed for what he wanted to do. He had us stymied quite a bit in that 2015 Virginia game when we faced him again, that's for sure...we had fits trying to pickup the pressure. If I recall he was well thought of before he came to ND too.
 
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dad4aa

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Louisville has given up a school record 539 yards on 64 carries with over 6 minutes left in the game.
 
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Evidently Paul Johnson and BVG have some history. Paul Johnson wants to beat the hell out of BVG. Old article from 2015, but I'm sure Paul Johnson is taking great pleasure in abusing BVG's defense.

https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/georgia-tech-football/2015/9/17/9342027/the-paul-johnson-brian-vangorder-chronicles-get-a-new-chapter-in

We're slowly approaching the ten-year anniversary of December 9th, 2005, the day that Brian VanGorder left his spot as linebackers coach of the Jacksonville Jaguars to take the position as head coach at Georgia Southern University. Among his first goals as head coach of the Eagles was to get rid of the spread option offense that had been installed by Georgia Tech's current head coach Paul Johnson. Johnson, of course, served as the offensive coordinator at GSU under legendary head coach Erk Russell back in the mid-1980s before returning as head coach from 1997 to 2001.

VanGorder felt it important to scrap the offense which had brought the 1985,1986, 1989, 1990, 1999, and 2000 D-IAA national championships to the program because he wanted to bring the program "into the 21st century". He felt that the system would be impossible to recruit to, and just wouldn't work at a high level of football. (And with only 6 national titles since the program's first varsity season in 1984, what reason did he have to think that it was a possibility?)

The comments that VanGorder made were very public in nature, and Johnson, then the head coach at Navy, caught wind of them. A very proud and competitive individual, Johnson called up an old friend from his Georgia Southern days, Roger Inman. He asked Inman to put him in contact with the Eagles' athletic director, so that he could arrange a game with them for his Midshipmen. According to Inman, when he asked why on Earth Johnson was so intent on playing a school like Georgia Southern, the answer was simple:

"Because I want to beat the Hell out of Brian VanGorder."
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Crazy Balki

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IrishBoognish said:
I was led to believe that this VanGorder chap was some sort of gangster.

Was I sold a bill of goods?
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Something about Vangorder and college football just isn’t working right now. Maybe he’s lost touch with what football is like in college now? Maybe the lack of recruiting also includes a lack of enthusiasm for his job? Or maybe he’s just had a poor run of luck with some poorly performing teams? It’s weird because Vangorder has been an NFL D-Coordinator, and pretty good one for a year or two in the pros. He had some monster defenses at Georgia but for some reason his last two runs as DC have been really really bad at ND and Louisville.
 
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NDMIA said:
Something about Vangorder and college football just isn’t working right now. Maybe he’s lost touch with what football is like in college now? Maybe the lack of recruiting also includes a lack of enthusiasm for his job? Or maybe he’s just had a poor run of luck with some poorly performing teams? It’s weird because Vangorder has been an NFL D-Coordinator, and pretty good one for a year or two in the pros. He had some monster defenses at Georgia but for some reason his last two runs as DC have been really really bad at ND and Louisville.
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He didn’t light the world on fire at Auburn either.
 
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