Vandy Post-Game Thread

[zelezo vlk]

3-0, how many times has ND gone 3-0 since Holtz left? 3 or 4 times (including this year) would be I guess...

BK has done it 4 times. 2012, 2014, 2015, and 2018

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[ND88]

Last year was out of the norm and that faded by year's end. We ended the year getting absolutely embarrassed on national TV (again) (to make it worse we were probably a better team than them too), squeaked out a win against a bad Navy team, and choked a big one against a (lesser) Stanford team getting embarrassed (again). We then got a play of the decade type play to beat LSU.
2012 was full of "meh" wins over mediocre teams (Boston College, Purdue, Michigan, BYU, Pittt, and USC). We were exposed by Alabama and would have been routed by UGA too. We could have beat KSU and been competitive against Oregon.

BK's tenure is littered with solid wins/routes that turn into meh wins or nail biters (often against lesser opponents). 6 games last year doesn't override 8 years of history.

So, Kelly’s not gonna do it. Notre Dame’s not winning Alabama-style or even Clemson-style. We don’t win big games only solid ones. We play down to our competition and/or we aren’t good enough to win when we play up. When we do beat great teams, it’s really only because the great team lost and didn’t play their best against us or they weren’t actually great to begin with.

Do you see how this thinking gets exhausting?

So, basically, fire Kelly and get a better coach?

Should we wait to be optimistic until then?

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Remember when some people were afraid we would lose Chip to Bama, and he was being stifled by BK. Now some are calling for his head LOL.

Whatever fits the narrative at the time right?

 

[phgreek]

"Against the run of play" comments (#s5-10):

1). Quite Happy. 3-0.

2). OLine is gelling --- a bunch of running yards. (every play cannot be a gasher.) A lot of those runs went over the right side.
3). I saw an RB pick up a blitz --- halleluja! We're getting this figured out a bit. WRs also made some blocks.

4). Defense is VERY good. Winning games till the O gets going.
4a). We've played THREE very good QBs, and those people will gain yards and eat clock on us, and score a little. We still win.
4b). The "lucky" strips and recoveries aren't coming by accident, our guys are good and trained.
4c).With some reasonable amount of true holding calls, we would be killing these opponents more. As it is, we'll have to blitz more.

5). Kelly's own offense (QB standing tall and quick reading and delivering with running used more as a slash and shock than a staple) is designed to score about 6-8 times a game. --- 30+ points. Wimbush (nor Golson nor Zaire) can run that offense. Rees could and couldn't because of refusing to run (QB slash and shock running is an integral part.) Kizer could (until his head went a little sideways.) We will not likely score in classic Kelly-offense numbers with Brandon Wimbush not seeing the field, reading progressions quickly and delivering accurate short to medium range passes.

6). We have an experienced QB (of the Pike mold) on this team who can run the Kelly offense. Due to Chip Long remodeling things, and some sort of awkward hybrid emerging to try to play to a mismatched talent (read: some plays look "right" for Brandon; some look horribly wrong), and Coach's famous loyal-to-a-fault/loss inner make-up, I fear that we may never make the needed shift. The only "solution" might be that somehow Long and Wimbush muddle through. That is not the best solution.

7). {{ Now for the complete insanity --- but I don't care; it's my opinion and that's all it is }}: Ian Book can be not only good, but (in college football terms) great. I see qualities of poise, decisiveness, vision, understanding, and ability to inspire confidence in his teammates that can reach HIGH ceiling levels. Whether, even if given the keys tomorrow (which will not happen --- see "loyalty" above), Book can accomplish this in this season (even Tom Brady looked Book-like this early in his Michigan career), is probably asking too much --- but he would be GOOD --- IS good.

8). Our WR/TE corps + Brandon = mediocre.
Our WR/TE corps + Ian = very good. --------------- why? Fast on-time deliveries to big bodies in the right spots. I don't give that much of a hoot about how miraculous Brandon's scrambles are. I'd rather the pass be gone before that had to happen, and the down and distances be shorter.

9). The "cute" Book packages just might be Coach's way of easing Brandon more and more to the sidelines, while giving him more than enough chances to play into true competence.

10). If 9 doesn't work for Brandon, more Ian please and quickly.

4c...yea, I think we all try to avoid "excuses", so we reflexively yell at the TV when we see it, but then avoid it in post game evaluations. I think ND guys do get held beyond the normal stuff and don't get the calls much...not sure why.

 

[Rocket 94]

3-0, how many times has ND gone 3-0 since Holtz left? 3 or 4 times (including this year) would be I guess...

2002, 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2018. 4 years with Kelly and 1 year with Willingham.

 

[ickythump1225]

2012 we also throttled Navy, Miami and Wake Forest

Owenwilsonsayingwow.gif
Navy was 8-5 (and Navy)
Miami went 7-5
Wake Forest went 5-7

2014 we did the same Rice and Michigan

Rice: 8-5
Michigan: 5-7

2015 we also got Texas and UMass

UMass: 3-9
Texas: 5-7

In 2014 we needed a miracle against a mediocre (8-5) Stanford team at home. Had "meh" wins over Syracuse, UNC, and Navy. Lost to a horrible Northwestern at home (the worst loss in BK's time here easily).

In 2015 we barely squeaked one out against a bad UVA team, allowed a route of GT to turn into a one score game, barely beat Temple, and won by a FG to a mediocre BC team (but I repeat myself).

It's not just that we've had a few blow out wins with CBK (even really bad teams get blow outs from time to time) (and really in 8 years that we can remember all of them off hand shows how few there have been) it's that the blow outs have been few and far between and are scattered with (un-necessary) nail biters, head scratching losses, and late season fades.

 

[BabyIrish]

Owenwilsonsayingwow.gif
Navy was 8-5 (and Navy)
Miami went 7-5
Wake Forest went 5-7

Rice: 8-5
Michigan: 5-7

UMass: 3-9
Texas: 5-7

In 2014 we needed a miracle against a mediocre (8-5) Stanford team at home. Had "meh" wins over Syracuse, UNC, and Navy. Lost to a horrible Northwestern at home (the worst loss in BK's time here easily).

In 2015 we barely squeaked one out against a bad UVA team, allowed a route of GT to turn into a one score game, barely beat Temple, and won by a FG to a mediocre BC team (but I repeat myself).

It's not just that we've had a few blow out wins with CBK (even really bad teams get blow outs from time to time) (and really in 8 years that we can remember all of them off hand shows how few there have been) it's that the blow outs have been few and far between and are scattered with (un-necessary) nail biters, head scratching losses, and late season fades.

I don’t disagree with any of that, as I said you can debate the quality of the blowouts and how few and far between they have come. But we have had a blowout every year except 2016 under BK. So this narrative that we have never blown out teams or we always win close is false and a complete overreaction that’s embarrassing as a fan base.

 

[ickythump1225]

I don’t disagree with any of that, as I said you can debate the quality of the blowouts and how few and far between they have come. But we have had a blowout every year except 2016 under BK. So this narrative that we have never blown out teams or we always win close is false and a complete overreaction that’s embarrassing as a fan base.

I don't say that we NEVER blow anyone out, but we could easily have double our number if we simply executed against lesser teams. I would also like to see the blow out wins that we do get not get balanced out by the end of the year with games like Temple/BC 2015 or just late season fades (2014 and 2017). I know that's asking a lot, it's almost like I want the program to be elite again or something and haven't settled for top 15/20 mediocrity.

 

[Number3rockin]

I think I did, should've used rarely, if ever do we put up 50-60.

 

[ickythump1225]

So, Kelly’s not gonna do it. Notre Dame’s not winning Alabama-style or even Clemson-style. We don’t win big games only solid ones. We play down to our competition and/or we aren’t good enough to win when we play up. When we do beat great teams, it’s really only because the great team lost and didn’t play their best against us or they weren’t actually great to begin with.

Do you see how this thinking gets exhausting?

So, basically, fire Kelly and get a better coach?

Should we wait to be optimistic until then?

Yeah but the same logic could be turned against the sunshine pumpers who are fine with perpetual 8 or 9 win seasons because "well golly with the restrictions on the program and the academics we can't even be as good as Stanford, let alone OSU." Everyone likes to mock David Shaw but he's a better coach than BK. The record is what it is. For as much as he's mocked he faces the same (if not worse, due to no historic prestige, no charming once in a lifetime campus experience) as ND but since 2011 has won 73 games including 2 Rose Bowls and 2 close NY6/BCS bowl losses. He has 5 10 win seasons, 2 of which are 12 win seasons and 2 11 win seasons.

We can't even match Stanford. Stanford right now is a better football program than ND. Right now the gap between us and the big boys (Bama, Clemson, and OSU) is bigger than the gap between us and a team like Vandy. ND has settled into something I never thought would be acceptable: utter mediocrity. 8 or 9 wins is the standard and completely acceptable because "we couldn't possibly do better."

BK is on year 9 and we are not legit title contenders. If it doesn't happen this year, and hasn't happened yet, when is it going to happen? How many coaches won their first title after 9 years (with the same team, not total HC experience)? Off the top of my head I can think of only Bobby Bowden. Realistically speaking we're not any closer to being title contenders than we were as we were getting run off the field by Bama 6 years ago. Has any ND coach made it this long without a title to his name?

I thought last year maybe BK had turned a corner. We were playing a brand of football that was enjoyable to watch, was punishing, and what I expect out of ND. Then we got rocked by an utterly mediocre Miami team and embarrassed by a Stanford team that was only so/so. No corners were turned.

I say again, if BK is the best we can hope for, the dream is dead and the echoes will never wake up again. ND (used to) stands for excellence, championships, and glory. Now it's like Okie State with more glitter on our helmets and a better defense.

 

[BeauBenken]

Good lord y'all are a miserable bunch.

A lot of improvements this week. Pleased with most individual players' performances. Would love to see a more determined attitude from our offense to make more big time blocks, catches, plays, etc.

Playcalling has to continue to improve.

Oh, and feed TJ the ball. I like what Jafar can bring to the table, but TJ should be getting 15+ or 20+ carries a game. You have to establish a run game and he is the kind of back that can help do that.

 

[cody1smith]

Hands down would have lost that game if it were 5 minutes longer. Our guys were worn out big time. Vanderbilt didn't looked gassed at all. I've watched a bunch of games and they were just getting beat. Not sure if it's because of the heat or what but it seemed bad.

 

[NDRock]

Yeah but the same logic could be turned against the sunshine pumpers who are fine with perpetual 8 or 9 win seasons because "well golly with the restrictions on the program and the academics we can't even be as good as Stanford, let alone OSU." Everyone likes to mock David Shaw but he's a better coach than BK. The record is what it is. For as much as he's mocked he faces the same (if not worse, due to no historic prestige, no charming once in a lifetime campus experience) as ND but since 2011 has won 73 games including 2 Rose Bowls and 2 close NY6/BCS bowl losses. He has 5 10 win seasons, 2 of which are 12 win seasons and 2 11 win seasons.

We can't even match Stanford. Stanford right now is a better football program than ND. Right now the gap between us and the big boys (Bama, Clemson, and OSU) is bigger than the gap between us and a team like Vandy. ND has settled into something I never thought would be acceptable: utter mediocrity. 8 or 9 wins is the standard and completely acceptable because "we couldn't possibly do better."

BK is on year 9 and we are not legit title contenders. If it doesn't happen this year, and hasn't happened yet, when is it going to happen? How many coaches won their first title after 9 years (with the same team, not total HC experience)? Off the top of my head I can think of only Bobby Bowden. Realistically speaking we're not any closer to being title contenders than we were as we were getting run off the field by Bama 6 years ago. Has any ND coach made it this long without a title to his name?

I thought last year maybe BK had turned a corner. We were playing a brand of football that was enjoyable to watch, was punishing, and what I expect out of ND. Then we got rocked by an utterly mediocre Miami team and embarrassed by a Stanford team that was only so/so. No corners were turned.

I say again, if BK is the best we can hope for, the dream is dead and the echoes will never wake up again. ND (used to) stands for excellence, championships, and glory. Now it's like Okie State with more glitter on our helmets and a better defense.

At the end of the day, I root for Notre Dame no matter how good/bad they are. From the outside, it doesn’t really seem like ND is willing to do everything it can to be an elite program. Heck, since the Carter administration, we’ve really only been an elite program from 88-93. This current level of “utter mediocrity” as you call it, has been ND football for most of the last 40 years.

I guess the difference between you and I is I expect these types of games and types of seasons. I picked us to go 9-4 and still see it going that way. As Red said “hope is a dangerous thing my friend, it can kill a man...” Go Irish!

*Also, I’d say we’re much closer to Auburn than Okie State. Similar recruiting and inconsistent results.

 

[BobbyMac]

I'd pay $100 to know how much freedom Long has in calling plays.

If you have 2-3 plays to choose from for each down and distance situation that's not much freedom

 

[IrishSteelhead]

The concerns are there, and have already been addressed ad nauseum in this thread.

The schedule has a game in 2 weeks that will verify or vilify our ranking. Gonna just ride the wave until then.


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[ND88]

I don't say that we NEVER blow anyone out, but we could easily have double our number if we simply executed against lesser teams. I would also like to see the blow out wins that we do get not get balanced out by the end of the year with games like Temple/BC 2015 or just late season fades (2014 and 2017). I know that's asking a lot, it's almost like I want the program to be elite again or something and haven't settled for top 15/20 mediocrity.

Most of us aren’t settling for mediocrity or ignoring the trends. It’s just a question of how far to take the frustration. The way I look at it, the only way to actively demand that ND football be “elite” is to boycott the University and stage protests against the admin. to get serious about winning Alabama-style. (which is ridiculous)

You talked about Shaw. People mock him for his complaining on the field and for beating us with that smug face, not because he is a bad coach. But speaking of Shaw, Stanford isn’t really a good standard to measure ourselves against if we are talking about elite. Shaw has brought sustainability to a Harbaugh turnaround from 1-11, but Stanford will never reach the promised-land either. It’s just not gonna happen for them, and they have a quarter of the fanbase we do. What Stanford does have is a helluva national degree and warm weather. It’s not difficult to understand why they get recruits. It certainly isn’t because of their fan support.

To an older guy like me, all these college dudes are young pups. I’m not gonna seriously lose my shit over their process. Venting within reason is a given. If they bust their ass and pay attention to details on the field, then I am always going to cheer super loudly for them. It’s not up to the students who their coaches are, and we can’t control it either unless we bully Kelly off the block by affecting ND’s money, which is deeper than deep. The student athletes on the team signed up to play for my alma mater, so yeah... I’m gonna cheer. Call me a sunshine pumper kool aid drinking homer. I’m too old to be protesting over young dudes playing a game... even if I know all the “facts” of mediocrity.

 

[Irishize]

Yeah but the same logic could be turned against the sunshine pumpers who are fine with perpetual 8 or 9 win seasons because "well golly with the restrictions on the program and the academics we can't even be as good as Stanford, let alone OSU." Everyone likes to mock David Shaw but he's a better coach than BK. The record is what it is. For as much as he's mocked he faces the same (if not worse, due to no historic prestige, no charming once in a lifetime campus experience) as ND but since 2011 has won 73 games including 2 Rose Bowls and 2 close NY6/BCS bowl losses. He has 5 10 win seasons, 2 of which are 12 win seasons and 2 11 win seasons.

We can't even match Stanford. Stanford right now is a better football program than ND. Right now the gap between us and the big boys (Bama, Clemson, and OSU) is bigger than the gap between us and a team like Vandy. ND has settled into something I never thought would be acceptable: utter mediocrity. 8 or 9 wins is the standard and completely acceptable because "we couldn't possibly do better."

BK is on year 9 and we are not legit title contenders. If it doesn't happen this year, and hasn't happened yet, when is it going to happen? How many coaches won their first title after 9 years (with the same team, not total HC experience)? Off the top of my head I can think of only Bobby Bowden. Realistically speaking we're not any closer to being title contenders than we were as we were getting run off the field by Bama 6 years ago. Has any ND coach made it this long without a title to his name?

I thought last year maybe BK had turned a corner. We were playing a brand of football that was enjoyable to watch, was punishing, and what I expect out of ND. Then we got rocked by an utterly mediocre Miami team and embarrassed by a Stanford team that was only so/so. No corners were turned.

I say again, if BK is the best we can hope for, the dream is dead and the echoes will never wake up again. ND (used to) stands for excellence, championships, and glory. Now it's like Okie State with more glitter on our helmets and a better defense.

A lot has happened post-1996 that led us to this point.

ND made three horrible hires in succession w/ Bob Davie (who had never been a HC at the CFB level), Ty Willingham (who was not ND’s 1st choice & hadn’t accomplished anything that compared to Ara, Devine or Holtz pre-ND) & Charlie Weis (who, again; was not ND’s 1st choice & had never been a HC before). Now I suspect the job was still a highly coveted position when they went w/ Davie but it hasn’t been since for a myriad of reasons.

1. Conferences smartly negotiated multi-million dollar TV deals that meant ND wasn’t the only powerhouse that was on tv all the time.

2. The more the ND program declined under Davie/Ty/Weis the less attractive the program looked to HS recruits w/ short memories as 1993 started to look like ancient history.

3. This decline also coincided w/ the population shift from Midwest/East to Texas/Florida/Cali/Deep South...or at least the offspring of that population shift were now playing football in those areas. Plus, brand name programs in those areas were having national success under HCs like Mack Brown at UT, Stoops at OU, Pete Carroll at SC, Spurrier at UF, Bowden at FSU, Fulmer at Tenn & Saban at LSU. Just on recruiting alone, I would take every one of those guys over Davie & Willingham.

4. ND fans (me incl) thought the tide would turn after the 2004 season. It seemed obvious who ND was going after & inevitable that Urban Meyer would be the next ND HC. His choice alone (a smart one in retrospect...on the field) confirmed that ND was playing second fiddle to a lot more viable programs. Had ND been loaded w/ talent under Willingham like UF was under Zook, Meyer maybe takes the ND job. But he did his due diligence & knew first hand the academic restrictions so it was a no-brainer. Stoops supposedly interviewed as well but hit a stalemate when ND wouldn’t budge on academic exceptions.

5. Now ND can no longer use the academic excuse b/c Stanford has become what ND used to be. We can split hairs & argue that Stanford may be tougher to be admitted to but it’s a lot easier to stay eligible once enrolled than it is at ND (has Stanford ever had academic scandals or suspensions...no group of kids are that perfect) but perception is reality and the perception is that Stanford is equally as difficult, if not more, than ND.

I’ll stop there and avoid the weather, the college experience for the student-athlete, South Bend as a destination for 5 years of a kid’s life, etc.

While BK deserves criticism, I can’t blame him for 1997-2009 and we should all know by now that the likes of Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops or even David Shaw are not walking through that door when BK leaves ND.

BK doesn’t have ND where we all want them to be as his tenure has produced what, to me; amounts to an 8-4 program. The administration & the younger generation of fans see that as a vast improvement over 1997-2008. Soon, they’ll need to decide if they want to aspire for better or are content w/ 8-4 and an occasional 10+ win season every three years.

This is not our grandfather’s, or even father’s; Notre Dame.

 

[BobbyMac]

While BK deserves criticism, I can’t blame him for 1997-2009 and we should all know by now that the likes of Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops or even David Shaw are not walking through that door when BK leaves ND.

.

I'll take Joe Moorhead everyday of the week over David Shaw. Give me a good Catholic boy from OH/PA/WV and lets get to work.

Joe Moorhead will be the next HC at ND.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I'll take Joe Moorhead everyday of the week over David Shaw. Give me a good Catholic boy from OH/PA/WV and lets get to work.

Joe Moorhead will be the next HC at ND.

Saban and Meyer are Catholic too. But even Catholics want to win.

 

[Irish#1]

This is depressing. We fucking won, guys. You all must literally go on suicide watch when we lose. ffs.

Yeah, there’s quite a few that could use a cup of hot chocolate then a nap.

 

[dad4aa]

Seems every week more and more of this board is becoming like NDNation.

 

[IrishLax]

This longview stuff of ND football just doesn't really matter right now. We're gonna have 8 months to stew over that shit... Kelly is the coach this year, Chip Long is the OC this year. That isn't changing. Nor are the players.

 

[Irish YJ]

This longview stuff of ND football just doesn't really matter right now. We're gonna have 8 months to stew over that shit... Kelly is the coach this year, Chip Long is the OC this year. That isn't changing. Nor are the players.

I'd love to be pumping sunshine and rainbows, but the bitching and moaning about everything is expected given the circumstance. Happens every year when we're struggling. I mean, why put off till January what you can do today... lol. Personally, I'm still hoping for a turnaround and we get back on track.

 

[loomis41973]

Seems every week more and more of this board is becoming like NDNation.

That's what i'm sayin'. +1

 

[IrishLax]

ND is 3-0 which is awesome. Faces their first road test of the season. Keep winning and everything works out. However, there are some issues that people are pointing out. Some even glaring.

OFFENSE
FBS Points Per Game: 82nd in FBS
FBS Yards Per Play: 87th in FBS

DEFENSE
FBS Points Per Game: 21st in FBS
FBS Yards Per Play: 21st in FBS

Obviously after 3 games teams haven’t played a lot of big time opponents so their stats are a little skewed. Like Vanderbilt is high in the defensive rankings and while I think they are improved, they don’t have a better defense than Notre Dame. I think Brandon Wimbush looked solid this weekend. I think the offense sputtered in the red zone quite a bit but he put up a QBR of 70.2 which would put him in the top 30 QB’s for last season if he did that week in and week out. The RB position is improving (should improve more with Dex) and I love what Tony Jones Jr did this weekend. I feel like he said, I’m the alpha guys and let me take this position group and lead them. For the WR’s, Claypool and Boykin need to get open more and it’s that simple. I don’t care how your QB throws, 1 reception when you play the whole game virtually is unacceptable. I also think they made more of an effort to go to the TE’s this weekend which should only help the offense because wow that is a dynamite group of blockers and receivers, especially when Cole Kmet comes back. The offensive line is improving and that’s what you can ask for. Liam Eichenberg is a first time starter (pretty much first time player) and improved his play. He should get better with each week hopefully. Hainsey hopefully improves as they improve his injury if that’s possible during the season. If not, I honestly think BK and Jeff Quinn are really dumb for not trusting any of the other 9 backups on the roster (especially Banks or Lugg) to get the job done in the first few weeks while Hainsey rehabs because when injured he’s just not the same player we saw last season. Play calling wise I’m not sure what the issue is because I’m not a football coach, but hopefully they can start putting points on the board in the second half because it’s embarrassing how this team can’t score in the second half at all. If they continue to do this in the second half then they will lose a lot of games. Defensively the biggest issue is Te’Von Coney and Drue Tranquill wearing down. That could be a big issue in the future. I would love to see their snap counts but I don’t know it.

To me, I think the issue is that we simply don't have explosive players and last year's success... when the offense was working... was about hitting home runs. It was never very good at sustaining long drives even with Nelson/McGlinchey/Adams. It used to be in the second half our OL would wear down the opposing DL, and then we'd start getting lots of chunk runs. What we did to NC State in the second half last year is a great example. Our OL is not capable of doing that this year, and we don't have a home run hitting back like Adams.

So you've got an inaccurate QB, OL play that has been inconsistent, RBs that are not complete players, WRs that are inconsistent... it all adds up to an offense that looks mediocre as hell when the play calling is predictable. We run the ball on 1st down the vast majority of the time to start a drive. We almost never throw the ball on 3rd & 2 or less. We have very predictable tendencies. And since Chip Long has been in town, a lot of the Kelly stuff I did like has disappeared.

I miss stuff like this:

And this:

I understand why we don't #2 anymore -- because we're bad at running WR screens and don't have anyone with Fuller's speed -- but the bigger point is we've basically completely abandoned the "Kelly" offense hallmarks at this point. We're now like every other spread, RPO, zone-read, whatever team... and that stuff only works as long as you've got a talent edge or can get into a play calling rhythm. Right now we're not really doing either.

As an experiment for the board, against Wake see if you can predict before the ball is snapped whether it's going to be a run or pass. I bet we can guess correctly 75%+ of the time based on how we line up and the down and distance. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we're quite predictable.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

I'd love to be pumping sunshine and rainbows, but the bitching and moaning about everything is expected given the circumstance. Happens every year when we're struggling. I mean, why put off till January what you can do today... lol. Personally, I'm still hoping for a turnaround and we get back on track.

It's interesting for the words turn around to be used when ND is 3-0. I get it, they haven't looked dominating for an entire game so far but turn around is typically reserved for teams that are losing games, not undefeated.

 

[IrishLax]

I'd love to be pumping sunshine and rainbows, but the bitching and moaning about everything is expected given the circumstance. Happens every year when we're struggling. I mean, why put off till January what you can do today... lol. Personally, I'm still hoping for a turnaround and we get back on track.

I just feel like when the team hasn't trailed for a single second of any game... despite, admittedly, looking like crap for stretches... we gotta cool it on the "OMG KELLY SUX CAN'T WE GET A BETTER COACH!?!?!" stuff because what's the point?

I'd much rather teeth gnash about specific problems affecting play on the field.

 

[loomis41973]

To me, I think the issue is that we simply don't have explosive players and last year's success... when the offense was working... was about hitting home runs. It was never very good at sustaining long drives even with Nelson/McGlinchey/Adams. It used to be in the second half our OL would wear down the opposing DL, and then we'd start getting lots of chunk runs. What we did to NC State in the second half last year is a great example. Our OL is not capable of doing that this year, and we don't have a home run hitting back like Adams.

So you've got an inaccurate QB, OL play that has been inconsistent, RBs that are not complete players, WRs that are inconsistent... it all adds up to an offense that looks mediocre as hell when the play calling is predictable. We run the ball on 1st down the vast majority of the time to start a drive. We almost never throw the ball on 3rd & 2 or less. We have very predictable tendencies. And since Chip Long has been in town, a lot of the Kelly stuff I did like has disappeared.

I miss stuff like this:

And this:

I understand why we don't #2 anymore -- because we're bad at running WR screens and don't have anyone with Fuller's speed -- but the bigger point is we've basically completely abandoned the "Kelly" offense hallmarks at this point. We're now like every other spread, RPO, zone-read, whatever team... and that stuff only works as long as you've got a talent edge or can get into a play calling rhythm. Right now we're not really doing either.

As an experiment for the board, against Wake see if you can predict before the ball is snapped whether it's going to be a run or pass. I bet we can guess correctly 75%+ of the time based on how we line up and the down and distance. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we're quite predictable.

Agree with everything you say about the offense. I think out bigger problem later in the season is that our defense will be gassed from playing too many snaps....which goes back to everything you've said about the offense.

 

[Irish YJ]

It's interesting for the words turn around to be used when ND is 3-0. I get it, they haven't looked dominating for an entire game so far but turn around is typically reserved for teams that are losing games, not undefeated.

Like I said immediately after the win... 3 and 0 never felt so bad. I'm very happy to be 3-0, but let's be honest.... The ceiling seemed very high post scUM, and fans were ecstatic and optimistic. And so was the media. Our D looked great, our OL who most were concerned with going into the season, did well against what many said was the #1 or 2 DL in CFB. Our QB, who most were concerned with, did decent against what was assumed to be a top 5 D in the country. Fast forward to two close home wins over teams in the bottom of their conferences... The OL and QB have looked to regress against talent that is far inferior.

So in short, we looked good, then we looked bad. A turnaround is simply looking good again. It's not word gymnastics.

 

[Irish#1]

We are 3-0 and the O-line and BW looked better than the previous week which means improvement.

Unless a team hates their coach and has given up on the season, I expect teams to come out on the second half and show improved play. This team faced three pretty good QB's and unless you getting heavy pressure on the QB every play, it's to be expected that a team is going to respond.

I still don't like the Book substitution and given BK's comments, don't look for that to change. Like I said earlier I think going on the road is going to do wonders for this 0-3 team.